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Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3775
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Posted - 2014.08.30 18:14:00 -
[1] - Quote
It is long overdue for a Ballistic Enhancer for missiles. Even drones now have low-slot enhancements, yet missile ships are continually relegated to utilizing rigs for improving missile ballistic damage application.
Ballistic Enhancer II (low slot) Explosion radius: 10% Explosion velocity: 10% Missile Velocity: 20% I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
39
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
Arthur Aihaken wrote:It is long overdue for a Ballistic Enhancer for missiles. Even drones now have low-slot enhancements, yet missile ships are continually relegated to utilizing rigs for improving missile ballistic damage application.
Ballistic Enhancer II (low slot) Explosion radius: 10% Explosion velocity: 10% Missile Velocity: 20%
20% bonus to velocity? Wat. Thats rig territory. How bout 5% velocity bonus. That would be manageable. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
922
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:It is long overdue for a Ballistic Enhancer for missiles. Even drones now have low-slot enhancements, yet missile ships are continually relegated to utilizing rigs for improving missile ballistic damage application.
Ballistic Enhancer II (low slot) Explosion radius: 10% Explosion velocity: 10% Missile Velocity: 20% 20% bonus to velocity? Wat. Thats rig territory. How bout 5% velocity bonus. That would be manageable. Turret rigs are a straight 15% while TE2s are 20 falloff 10 optimal, 9.5 tracking
So given that we could just match them it would be explosion velocity 10 radius 9.5 Missile Velocity 20
So his numbers are good enough. THis doesnt count for things like tracking computers.
Now drone stuff follows the same as turrets now, so it stands that a missile mod would as well.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
13
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:41:00 -
[4] - Quote
"the other systems have it so this one should too" is never a good idea for adding something and i don't think they need a velocity bonus with it missiles already have an insane 40+km for frigs.
letting me decide if i want a BCU for more damage or a mod for better application would be great and giving more choice to the pilot is a good reason to add something(for the most part)
+1 for a mod that adds exp velocity/exp radios |
Arla Sarain
73
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Posted - 2014.08.30 19:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
150km coraxs. |
Harvey James
The Sengoku Legacy
889
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Posted - 2014.08.30 20:17:00 -
[6] - Quote
Lowslot Ballistic Enhancer I Explosion radius: 10% Explosion velocity: 10% Missile Velocity: 15%
Ballistic Enhancer II Explosion radius: 12.5% Explosion velocity: 12.5% Missile Velocity: 20%
midslot - can be scripted Ballistic Computer I Explosion radius: 12.5% Explosion velocity: 12.5% Missile Velocity: 12.5%
Ballistic Computer II Explosion radius: 15% Explosion velocity: 15% Missile Velocity: 17.5% Tech 3's need to be multi role ships not cruiser hulls with battleship tank and insane resists ABC's are clearly T2 in all but name.. remove drone assist mechanic. Nerf web strength ..... Make the blaster eagle worth using please |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
13
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Posted - 2014.08.30 20:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
again missile velocity would cause problems but if you couple it with a reduction in flight time then it could be useful and i think balanceable but i haven't given that much though |
Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3775
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Posted - 2014.08.30 20:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:again missile velocity would cause problems but if you couple it with a reduction in flight time then it could be useful and i think balanceable but i haven't given that much though That's reasonable. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
151
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Posted - 2014.08.30 20:49:00 -
[9] - Quote
It is slightly odd that this idea (and a corresponding ewar) has been around forever, everyone seems to broadly agree its a good and blindingly obvious thing and yet its never been implemented.
Without knowing why its hard to do anything but wildly throw numbers at the wall and see what sticks (see above). Travelling at the speed of love. |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
923
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Posted - 2014.08.30 20:50:00 -
[10] - Quote
+20% velocity -10% flight time means it goes 10% farther This also makes happy servers as faster missiles are less load and get to be instant below a certain point |
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Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3775
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Posted - 2014.08.30 21:03:00 -
[11] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:This also makes happy servers as faster missiles are less load and get to be instant below a certain point Semi-related, but missiles could benefit from an overall velocity bonus and corresponding flight time reduction aside from any ballistic enhancements. I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
ApolloF117 HUN
Trident Weapon Companies
17
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Posted - 2014.08.30 21:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arla Sarain wrote:150km coraxs. sounds about right, 100km rail harpys :3 |
Mike Voidstar
Voidstar Free Flight Foundation
718
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Posted - 2014.08.30 21:22:00 -
[13] - Quote
In general, missiles are dealing with an entirely separate set of circumstances for application from turrets. I don't know that they need to have the same sort of application enhancements that turrets need.
They already have excellent projection range, and don't need a lot of help in that area. I can see allowing a trade off of range for veleocity. Fuel burns hotter, but less efficiently.
The application stats don't need enhancing in the absence of ewar to bring it down. As a total package it's probably fine, but not in pieces. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
13
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Posted - 2014.08.30 21:23:00 -
[14] - Quote
ApolloF117 HUN wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:150km coraxs. sounds about right, 100km rail harpys :3
But harpys lose damage to get that with this the corax gains range and damage application |
NEONOVUS
Diabolically Sexy Eureka-Secret Science R Us
924
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Posted - 2014.08.30 21:36:00 -
[15] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:ApolloF117 HUN wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:150km coraxs. sounds about right, 100km rail harpys :3 But harpys lose damage to get that with this the corax gains range and damage application Turret versus launcher, also destroyer versus assault frigate Try the hawk, it can do better So its actually turret versus launcher at different roles Eve isnt a multimodal game |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
13
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Posted - 2014.08.30 22:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:ApolloF117 HUN wrote:Arla Sarain wrote:150km coraxs. sounds about right, 100km rail harpys :3 But harpys lose damage to get that with this the corax gains range and damage application Turret versus launcher, also destroyer versus assault frigate Try the hawk, it can do better So its actually turret versus launcher at different roles Eve isnt a multimodal game
I was pointing out that they are different and that's why a mod that affects it the same way wouldn't be balanced |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
68
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Posted - 2014.08.30 22:55:00 -
[17] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:Stitch Kaneland wrote:Arthur Aihaken wrote:It is long overdue for a Ballistic Enhancer for missiles. Even drones now have low-slot enhancements, yet missile ships are continually relegated to utilizing rigs for improving missile ballistic damage application.
Ballistic Enhancer II (low slot) Explosion radius: 10% Explosion velocity: 10% Missile Velocity: 20% 20% bonus to velocity? Wat. Thats rig territory. How bout 5% velocity bonus. That would be manageable. Turret rigs are a straight 15% while TE2s are 20 falloff 10 optimal, 9.5 tracking So given that we could just match them it would be explosion velocity 10 radius 9.5 Missile Velocity 20 So his numbers are good enough. THis doesnt count for things like tracking computers. Now drone stuff follows the same as turrets now, so it stands that a missile mod would as well.
Turrets and missiles are not the same thing, they work entirely different. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2507
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Posted - 2014.08.30 23:23:00 -
[18] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:It is slightly odd that this idea (and a corresponding ewar) has been around forever, everyone seems to broadly agree its a good and blindingly obvious thing and yet its never been implemented.
Without knowing why its hard to do anything but wildly throw numbers at the wall and see what sticks (see above).
CCP Rise promises there are some missile things being worked on that he can't tell us about before Rubicon ships.
Oh wait. |
Arthur Aihaken
Halas Hooligans
3776
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Posted - 2014.08.31 00:07:00 -
[19] - Quote
Alvatore DiMarco wrote:Does anyone know what they were? A work-around for the 35-second ammunition swap on rapid launchersGǪ? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
352
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Posted - 2014.08.31 00:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Velocity is normally the killer for damage application. Even a battleship can speed tank heavy missiles. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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jiujitsutou
Outrider's Black. Sails
4
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Posted - 2014.08.31 00:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
While i think the BE shouldnt give speed (it could very easy make things a little op i imagine 120 km ham cerbs etc), i like the idea in general . |
elitatwo
Congregatio
282
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Posted - 2014.08.31 07:55:00 -
[22] - Quote
How about CCP ditches two attributes from all missiles and call it a day? signature |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
262
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Posted - 2014.08.31 08:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:How about CCP ditches two attributes from all missiles and call it a day?
I'd like to ditch tracking and signature radius from guns while we're at it just to balance them out. |
Ktersida Nyn'Amanyn
Querschlaeger
5
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Posted - 2014.08.31 08:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
+1
There should be more options for missile ships to improve damage application via fitting like the other weapon systems have. |
ApolloF117 HUN
Trident Weapon Companies
17
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Posted - 2014.08.31 09:39:00 -
[25] - Quote
jiujitsutou wrote:While i think the BE shouldnt give speed (it could very easy make things a little op i imagine 120 km ham cerbs etc), i like the idea in general . 120km? why not 170km?:3 http://kepfeltoltes.hu/140831/cerb_www.kepfeltoltes.hu_.png |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
306
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Posted - 2014.08.31 09:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:It is slightly odd that this idea (and a corresponding ewar) has been around forever, everyone seems to broadly agree its a good and blindingly obvious thing and yet its never been implemented. It's never been implemented because of the rage which greeted the idea last time CCP suggested it... Which is wierd if everyone broadly agrees... |
Valkin Mordirc
167
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Posted - 2014.08.31 11:52:00 -
[27] - Quote
+1
I feel it would need more hammering out, however I believe it would make missiles a more viable option, without completely making them overpowered. Psychotic Monk for CSM9
Scipio Artelius: I find your continued optimism for the outcome of the CSM vote endearing |
elitatwo
Congregatio
282
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Posted - 2014.08.31 13:00:00 -
[28] - Quote
Adrie Atticus wrote:elitatwo wrote:How about CCP ditches two attributes from all missiles and call it a day? I'd like to ditch tracking and signature radius from guns while we're at it just to balance them out.
I guess you would think that would make the two even as a newborn but it is not as easy as that.
Maybe I should just repeat myself, just for your consideration!
When I first entered New Eden almost eight (8) years ago, no missile had the two "tracking" attributes I am talking as long as it will take them to make them go away about.
So you can take my word for it that I already know, how different that is, not hypothetically, no for real because I was there.
Three months after my tutorial someone with an 'X' in his name thought it would be a good idea to add those two attributes.
A very, very long thread in the forums responded that is wasn't and guess what? It wasn't.
For about 6 years nobody was taking missiles into serious consideration when it came to pvp until someone made a video with a Drake in it.
Before Empyrean Age missiles used to be a very serious thread to come across and noone would have made any kind of joke about a Raven busting a gatecamp.
People just bailed in fear of ever getting cought by one.
I really do not get why it is difficult for you more simple folks to comprehend that taking away that missile tracking nonesense is going to make missiles overpowered all of a sudden?
It won't.
Missiles would just become competitive.
See, missiles are that weapon system you could compare to artillery turrets with the tiny difference that missiles would do damage at the end of the cycle instead at the beginning of the cycle, so your 60% of an arty tornado alpha would have to wait a little to do damage, if at all.
You whinematar only want your sooper-dooper alpha turret for yourself but guess what, we Caldari volley you out of existence.
Do you see the irony here?
For a whinematar, 11000 hp alpha is all goody and everything is fine but a Caldari hull with 5000 delayed alpha, it's totally overpowerded, EVE is dying, goofswarm disbanding, all nullsec conquered by Caldari faction warfare and no stopping the Caldari because you are bad at dragging the right modules for the job on your fitting screen.
Well, I can and will not help you with that.
I will stand by opinion that missiles tracking was a bad idea and it needs to go. signature |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
477
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Posted - 2014.08.31 13:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
jiujitsutou wrote:While i think the BE shouldnt give speed (it could very easy make things a little op i imagine 120 km ham cerbs etc), i like the idea in general .
Could just be a matter of tweaking flight time some more to keep range equal. Bombers would be the only massive sticking point I see off the bat but we could look at their bonuses in the redo, if it ever happened. Which I am open too....not even going to pretend fast as hell lr torps from sb wings will not have balance issues lol.
Something is needed here thought. OP hit the 3 problem areas. Speed is one of them. I use all weapons. I get Mr speedy boat who zigs insteads of zags...traversal gods like me....blap (or they at least feel a fair amoun of pain). I get my speedy boat who zigs instead of zags against my missile boat, they can zig instead of zag all night...they just need to keep the speed up to offset damage.
Many times very prudent use of pulse active tank makes even my "always hit" a waste of ammo. Damage given is so small its repped/sb's easily. Maybe 10+ minute later we'd hit cap use issues for what I am hitting. But throw in a few friends, you aren't getting the 10 minutes to even see that capacitor use game come to fruition anyway I have found.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
4
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Posted - 2014.08.31 17:02:00 -
[30] - Quote
I may be guilty here of not fully understanding this but here is my two cents worth.
Tracking - a bad word to use when applied to missiles but it serves well for comparison. Gun based system suffer from a physical limitation on how fast the turrets can move, bigger guns means bigger turrets and that means more mass which equals harder to turn so the bigger the gun the bigger the tracking speed reduction. In the same way missiles have a "tracking", the limits on missiles are based on the physics of how hard it is to get and object to turn in flight. Faster and/or heavier are harder to turn than lighter and/or slower, think commercial airliner versus small private plane here.
Bullets get to targets faster than missiles in the real world so it seems appropriate to me that it would be this way in EVE. To me the speed of missiles in the game seems about right when comparing them to real world experiences between rockets/missiles and guns. So I would say no to a speed increase.
EVE is about options and which one is best for a specific situation. Change missiles so they behave like guns and why bother to have them in the game at all. No I want missiles to act like missiles, if I want the performance characteristics of guns then I use guns. In other words I want the flexibility offered by having the unique characteristics of both systems available.
With that said I do agree that it would be nice to have more options. Gun based systems seem to have rigs and modules that affect virtually every aspect of their performance while missiles get rigs and the ballistic controls. As a mission runner here are a few things I would like to see. Module to reduce explosion radius, how to balance this for PvP I will leave open for those who fly PvP. Module to increase explosion velocity. Same as above. Module to increase the "tracking" by reducing velocity back to that physics thing. Module to increase flight time, speed or maybe a combination of both balanced by a reduction in damage and a greater chance they will miss the target as range increases. These would give players a better chance to tailor the missiles performance to meet the demand or personal preferences.
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