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Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 19:41:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why is this not a thing?
It seems absurd to me that Amarrian stations would allow Minmatar militia members docking access to their stations, or vice versa. Why would you ever let a declared enemy dock in your space?
Is there some technical reason why this is permitted? Or is it just another case of CCP encouraging garbage gameplay? |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
13
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 19:43:00 -
[2] - Quote
don't make it minm can't doc in amarr systems make it so minm can't doc in amarr/cal stations in amarr/cal space but can still doc in minm/gal stations |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6007
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
This "quirk" was left in on purpose.
Basically, it should not be unreasonably hard for a militia to attack in enemy high-sec. I mean... you have the home field advantage. If you lock down the hostile for long enough then the NPC navy will show up and apply their damage on top of yours. Hell... you do not even need to apply damage. Just point and avoid getting killed yourself. Eventually the hostile will succumb to NPC firepower.
Now station games... that is a different matter entirely and affects more than just Faction Warfare. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 20:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:This "quirk" was left in on purpose.
Basically, it should not be unreasonably hard for a militia to attack in enemy high-sec. I mean... you have the home field advantage. If you lock down the hostile for long enough then the NPC navy will show up and apply their damage on top of yours. Hell... you do not even need to apply damage. Just point and avoid getting killed yourself. Eventually the hostile will succumb to NPC firepower.
Now station games... that is a different matter entirely and affects more than just Faction Warfare.
Home field advantage doesn't mean anything when the opposing militia can have a full stock of ships in station to undock with.
I understand that station games are a larger issue, but they become more glaring when the trade hubs have regular opfor who live there.
I would also say that if it is not supposed to be unreasonably hard to launch attacks in high sec, it should be at least somewhat difficult. Right now it is far too easy for someone to pod surf to a trade hub and then engage in station games in 1.0 systems. It is ridiculous in so many ways.
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6007
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
So MAKE it harder for your enemy to operate in the area. SHOOT them. Trick them so you can shoot them. Alpha them off the undock.
Or just make an insta-undock bookmark and wave them off laughing.
The truth is... it is already quite hard to operate in enemy high-sec... station games notwithstanding (if you have a problem with particular tactic then present an idea that will globally affect this... not just for one group). The navy gives you a clear edge against the enemy. Beyond that, it is up to you and your allies to wage war for your respective empire. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
So instead of having pilots in the war zone, each militia should have standing fleets to protect their trade hubs and 0.5 systems?
Why have facpo at that point?
Actually, that might be a better solution. Eliminate docking rights, and then get rid of facpo. That way players defend their trade hubs from the enemy, and more PvP is always a good thing, especially in FW. Then you would know that someone who rolls into enemy high sec is serious about bringing the war to their enemy, rather than a scrub abusing bad mechanics.
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Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
685
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:45:00 -
[7] - Quote
Quote: Actually, that might be a better solution. Eliminate docking rights, and then get rid of facpo. That way players defend their trade hubs from the enemy, and more PvP is always a good thing, especially in FW. Then you would know that someone who rolls into enemy high sec is serious about bringing the war to their enemy, rather than a scrub abusing bad mechanics.
You give me the impression that you can't even keep your enemies at bay in Low sec, and incapable of defending your High sec. Removing the NPCs to assist you seems to be a very bad move here. So, it should not be a question of black and white (FacPolice or No FacPolice); instead it should be a matter of complementing. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6007
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 21:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
Hyperbolic aren't we Joshua? I rarely see any militia wage concentrated battles in enemy high-sec. It is usually just one or three guys... and you can easily avoid and/or discourage and/or fight them if you know what you are doing. There is no need for a standing fleet.
Think of it as a regular war dec! Except the NPCs will help you! Same rules and tactics apply.
To be honest though... I would be more in favor of getting rid of ALL low-sec lockout mechanics. I find it to be a rather dumb mechanic that discourages people from spreading out across the warzone.
And not having any NPC navy in high-sec would mean that most FW fighting would just leave low-sec. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9384
|
Posted - 2014.08.30 23:22:00 -
[9] - Quote
It's this way on purpose.
Part of that reason is to prevent griefing new players by getting them to join the opposing militia and thereby locking them out of getting their stuff and/or medical clones.
The other part being that, yes, if you are Minnie Mouse Militia and the other guy is Amarr, that you do in fact have to deal with them in highsec. They can come out there and bring the fight to you. That is intended.
You're suggesting that be functionally removed, which is just unacceptable. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1487
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 00:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's this way on purpose.
Part of that reason is to prevent griefing new players by getting them to join the opposing militia and thereby locking them out of getting their stuff and/or medical clones.
The other part being that, yes, if you are Minnie Mouse Militia and the other guy is Amarr, that you do in fact have to deal with them in highsec. They can come out there and bring the fight to you. That is intended.
You're suggesting that be functionally removed, which is just unacceptable. Uh, no he's not. He's suggesting that the exact same mechanic that is applied in low sec be extended to high sec. In low sec you can't dock in the opposing factions territory. Yet in High Sec you can.... This is a huge inconsistency and they are wanting it addressed. |
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Caleb Seremshur
The Atomic Fallout Kids
352
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 00:21:00 -
[11] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:don't make it minm can't doc in amarr systems make it so minm can't doc in amarr/cal stations in amarr/cal space but can still doc in minm/gal stations No.
Those stations must obey the laws of the sovereign owner. They don't have the privilege of that choice. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=348015 T3 OHing subsystem review and rebalance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=290346 LP faction weapon store costs rebalancing
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Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 01:55:00 -
[12] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Hyperbolic aren't we Joshua? I rarely see any militia wage concentrated battles in enemy high-sec. It is usually just one or three guys... and you can easily avoid and/or discourage and/or fight them if you know what you are doing. There is no need for a standing fleet.
Think of it as a regular war dec! Except the NPCs will help you! Same rules and tactics apply.
To be honest though... I would be more in favor of getting rid of ALL low-sec lockout mechanics. I find it to be a rather dumb mechanic that discourages people from spreading out across the warzone.
And not having any NPC navy in high-sec would mean that most FW fighting would just leave low-sec.
I don't see any militia wage battles in high sec either. But I do know of a few folks in your militia who practically live in Amarr, which is completely absurd. It is the equivalent of the U.S. letting ISIS rent a suite at the Marriot in DC and only trying to arrest them when they come out the front door, then completely forgetting where they are as soon as they walk back inside.
To your point about removing the lockout mechanics, I don't agree. If there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to fight for. The only way Minmatar put up a fight is when they are facing losing a mission hub. If they knew that wasn't the case, it would be impossible to get them to stick around for a fight.
You might be right about removing the facpo causing your side to move full time into high sec. Lord knows you guys don't really like doing anything other than PvE. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9390
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 02:09:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nevyn Auscent wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:It's this way on purpose.
Part of that reason is to prevent griefing new players by getting them to join the opposing militia and thereby locking them out of getting their stuff and/or medical clones.
The other part being that, yes, if you are Minnie Mouse Militia and the other guy is Amarr, that you do in fact have to deal with them in highsec. They can come out there and bring the fight to you. That is intended.
You're suggesting that be functionally removed, which is just unacceptable. Uh, no he's not. He's suggesting that the exact same mechanic that is applied in low sec be extended to high sec. In low sec you can't dock in the opposing factions territory. Yet in High Sec you can.... This is a huge inconsistency and they are wanting it addressed.
No, it's not an inconsistency.
Players can change the sov in that part of lowsec. No matter how hard I try or how many people I get, I can't go take Rens from the Minmatar, or Amarr from the Amarrians.
When that changes, then we'll talk about locking people out.
It's perfectly consistent. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6007
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 03:03:00 -
[14] - Quote
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:I don't see any militia wage battles in high sec either. But I do know of a few folks in your militia who practically live in Amarr, which is completely absurd. It is the equivalent of the U.S. letting ISIS rent a suite at the Marriot in DC and only trying to arrest them when they come out the front door, then completely forgetting where they are as soon as they walk back inside. And yet people who suicide gank, have lower than -5.0 security status, have terrible faction standings, war dec entire constellations worth of corps/alliances and are NOT part of Faction Warfare are all allowed to dock in any NPC station in the game.
Only Faction Warfare is the "special child" with regards to this... and only in low-sec.
This is one of those times where gameplay trumps realism.
Another good example of this; the current in-game insurance system. Realistically, anyone who does PvP should be denied insurance... however insurance is designed to facilitate PvP.
So do not use the consistency argument. Half the mechanics in the game are not "consistent" for purely gameplay value.
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:To your point about removing the lockout mechanics, I don't agree. If there is nothing to lose, there is nothing to fight for. The only way Minmatar put up a fight is when they are facing losing a mission hub. If they knew that wasn't the case, it would be impossible to get them to stick around for a fight. If there is nothing to lose, people can fight just for the sake of fighting... and chestbeating rights. As was the case before the FW revamp.
In fact... I remember MORE and BETTER fights before the revamp because people could actually spread out across the warzone instead of just holing up in "bunker systems" (I point to both sides for doing this).
Also... for the record... we Minnies do not care about the low-sec mission hub. We have another one over in Abudban (high-sec). No one ever camps that station either (not for long anyways).
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:You might be right about removing the facpo causing your side to move full time into high sec. Lord knows you guys don't really like doing anything other than PvE. Honestly now... we hate the PvE part of FW just as much as the next guy. We would just be stupid not to take advantage of the system to make money.
Truth be told... I've actually gotten burned out having to run complexes to take and defend a system. More and more often I (and more than a few others) find myself having to give up perfectly good kills and target hunting because maintaining the system that everyone else lives in is more important. Lockout and structure bashing mechanics just aren't fun. Yeah, yeah... consequences... I know... but do we really want FW to turn into something like 0.0 with its rulesets and gameplay... especially when more than a few 0.0 vets are complaining about how stagnant and entrenched people are because of the very mechanics that they (and now we) keep asking for?
I could actually imagine a more interesting game is NO LOCKOUT MECHANICS existed. At all. Anywhere. The only way to stop people from staying in your area of space is to actually kill them. Over and over again. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Julius Foederatus
Spiritus Draconis Drunk 'n' Disorderly
233
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 04:05:00 -
[15] - Quote
I support this, but only if they stop the navy from coming after you in high sec simply for being in the opposing militia or having low standings. |
Claud Tiberius
63
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 05:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: And yet people who suicide gank, have lower than -5.0 security status, have terrible faction standings, war dec entire constellations worth of corps/alliances and are NOT part of Faction Warfare are all allowed to dock in any NPC station in the game.
Only Faction Warfare is the "special child" with regards to this... and only in low-sec.
This is one of those times where gameplay trumps realism.
Another good example of this; the current in-game insurance system. Realistically, anyone who does PvP should be denied insurance... however insurance is designed to facilitate PvP.
So do not use the consistency argument. Half the mechanics in the game are not "consistent" for purely gameplay value.
EVE isn't perfect, CCP hasn't said this is where the game will stay. So then there is no reason to not pursue more realism, when there are infinite possibility that can still incorporate fun game mechanics as well.
Once upon a time the Golem had a Raven hull and it looked good. Then it transformed into a plataduck. The end. |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 05:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: And yet people who suicide gank, have lower than -5.0 security status, have terrible faction standings, war dec entire constellations worth of corps/alliances and are NOT part of Faction Warfare are all allowed to dock in any NPC station in the game.
Only Faction Warfare is the "special child" with regards to this... and only in low-sec.
This is one of those times where gameplay trumps realism.
Another good example of this; the current in-game insurance system. Realistically, anyone who does PvP should be denied insurance... however insurance is designed to facilitate PvP.
So do not use the consistency argument. Half the mechanics in the game are not "consistent" for purely gameplay value.
We have very different views on what makes for quality gameplay obviously. As to the matter of the various other miscreants that are currently allowed to dock in high sec, there is a series of arguments that could be made, but the do not actually apply in this situation.
The people who join the militias are actively declaring their participation in a war. Letting them then dock in their opponents space is just stupid. I'm not advocating realism in a space sim, but I am advocating for some basic self preservation on the part of the various empires.
ShahFluffers wrote: Honestly now... we hate the PvE part of FW just as much as the next guy. We would just be stupid not to take advantage of the system to make money.
Truth be told... I've actually gotten burned out having to run complexes to take and defend a system. More and more often I (and more than a few others) find myself having to give up perfectly good kills and target hunting because maintaining the system that everyone else lives in is more important. Lockout and structure bashing mechanics just aren't fun. Yeah, yeah... consequences... I know... but do we really want FW to turn into something like 0.0 with its rulesets and gameplay... especially when more than a few 0.0 vets are complaining about how stagnant and entrenched people are because of the very mechanics that they (and now we) keep asking for?
I could actually imagine a more interesting game if NO LOCKOUT MECHANICS existed. At all. Anywhere. The only way to stop people from staying in your area of space is to actually kill them. Over and over again.
Implying the warzone could become stagnant when it has become much more fluid since the kronos changes is a little odd. The removal of farming offensive plexes pushed the scum into just running missions, and defensive plexing. I would agree that most minmatar don't have the heart or commitment to do the grindy part of it, and for that you should lose systems. However that has little bearing on the topic, and we are getting away from what should be a simple argument. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6008
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 05:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Claud Tiberius wrote:ShahFluffers wrote: And yet people who suicide gank, have lower than -5.0 security status, have terrible faction standings, war dec entire constellations worth of corps/alliances and are NOT part of Faction Warfare are all allowed to dock in any NPC station in the game.
Only Faction Warfare is the "special child" with regards to this... and only in low-sec.
This is one of those times where gameplay trumps realism.
Another good example of this; the current in-game insurance system. Realistically, anyone who does PvP should be denied insurance... however insurance is designed to facilitate PvP.
So do not use the consistency argument. Half the mechanics in the game are not "consistent" for purely gameplay value.
EVE isn't perfect, CCP hasn't said this is where the game will stay. So then there is no reason to not pursue more realism, when there are infinite possibility that can still incorporate fun game mechanics as well. Not at the cost of overall gameplay value though. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 05:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote: Not at the cost of overall gameplay value though.
Just because there is a PvP interaction does not make it valuable gameplay. Content does not by default equal good content.
Saying that things should stay as they are because that is how they have been is not a valid response either.
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Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
4
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 17:50:00 -
[20] - Quote
I am not involved in this but here is a few crazy thoughts.
Protecting your game customers.
Eliminate the ability of one faction to dock and you destroy a part of the market in that area. How do you justify this to the industrial characters that manufacture, transport and sell their goods in that area of space? See every action that CCP takes affects the game as a whole and not just one small part of it. While eliminating the ability to dock in enemy territory makes sense from your perspective it may not when considering the greater whole of the game. Since the market in low sec are so small this is not as much of a problem allowing CCP significantly more frreedom to do what is right for the smaller parts of the game.
Another thought, you are 15 or 20 jumps away from your factions home space and you need to refit, or replace a ship. How many times would you be willing to make a 30 to 40 jump round trip to do this?
If they did make this change have you thought about this part of it. How would you bring the materials to the war zone since carriers are not allowed in high sec. Would you bring it in fleets of industrial ships that are vulnerable to attack not only from your enemies but also buy the gank squads that roam high sec. Oh and remember in high sec you cannot fight to protect a ship from the gankers, only from an attack by your enemy.
So now you have your combat fleet and all your ammo, modules and spare ships into your enemies territory where do you store it, how do you keep it safe from attack 23 hours a day? Even if you did how would you refit when you have no place to dock? Yes you could use a mobile depot or possibly even an Orca but then that is even more assets you have to bring with you and even more chances for your enemy.
I also wonder if you have ever tried to work out the logistics of moving this volume of materials and ships around in EVE? And I find myself wondering how many of you would continue with this aspect of the game when you had to spend most of it dealing with the logistics of your supply chain? |
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Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
12
|
Posted - 2014.08.31 18:22:00 -
[21] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:I am not involved in this but here is a few crazy thoughts.
Protecting your game customers.
Eliminate the ability of one faction to dock and you destroy a part of the market in that area. How do you justify this to the industrial characters that manufacture, transport and sell their goods in that area of space? See every action that CCP takes affects the game as a whole and not just one small part of it. While eliminating the ability to dock in enemy territory makes sense from your perspective it may not when considering the greater whole of the game. Since the market in low sec are so small this is not as much of a problem allowing CCP significantly more frreedom to do what is right for the smaller parts of the game.
This is not a general issue. It is specific to FW. Trying to generalize it and make it bigger is misleading.
Donnachadh wrote: Another thought, you are 15 or 20 jumps away from your factions home space and you need to refit, or replace a ship. How many times would you be willing to make a 30 to 40 jump round trip to do this?
It is only 6 jumps from Amarr to Huola, and the same from Sisiede to Dodi or Hek. No one needs to make thirty jumps to resupply ever.
Donnachadh wrote: If they did make this change have you thought about this part of it. How would you bring the materials to the war zone since carriers are not allowed in high sec. Would you bring it in fleets of industrial ships that are vulnerable to attack not only from your enemies but also buy the gank squads that roam high sec. Oh and remember in high sec you cannot fight to protect a ship from the gankers, only from an attack by your enemy.
Neutral hauling alts, Black Frog, or just plain decent scouting. There is no shortage of options for getting material into the warzone, and removing the option for FW members to dock in their opponents space impacts none of it.
Donnachadh wrote: So now you have your combat fleet and all your ammo, modules and spare ships into your enemies territory where do you store it, how do you keep it safe from attack 23 hours a day? Even if you did how would you refit when you have no place to dock? Yes you could use a mobile depot or possibly even an Orca but then that is even more assets you have to bring with you and even more chances for your enemy.
If people want to launch a raid into enemy High sec, there should not be any major hurdle. But to suggest that it is reasonable that any of the empires should permit their enemy to stockpile weapons and ammo to be used against them in their own high sec is absurd.
People want to roam into enemy high sec and wreak havoc, more power to them. That should not mean that they can stash a supply of various classes of ships and then get to play undock games in enemy high sec.
Donnachadh wrote: I also wonder if you have ever tried to work out the logistics of moving this volume of materials and ships around in EVE? And I find myself wondering how many of you would continue with this aspect of the game when you had to spend most of it dealing with the logistics of your supply chain?
It takes me all of twenty minutes to purchase a weeks worth of ships and arrange the shipping contracts to my JF point. It then takes me another five minutes max to prep the contracts for either my alliance JF service or BF if I need it somewhere away from the alliance hubs.
Taking away docking access does not impact any of that, in any way.
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Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos
184
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 17:05:00 -
[22] - Quote
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:[quote=ShahFluffers]
We have very different views on what makes for quality gameplay obviously. As to the matter of the various other miscreants that are currently allowed to dock in high sec, there is a series of arguments that could be made, but the do not actually apply in this situation.
The people who join the militias are actively declaring their participation in a war. Letting them then dock in their opponents space is just stupid. I'm not advocating realism in a space sim, but I am advocating for some basic self preservation on the part of the various empires.
Well then if we're going to follow your rules of logic, then every station that supports the Amarr or Caldari in Gallente highsec needs to removed....because...you know...the war. Why would the Gallente empire allow Amarr and Caldari immigrants into their space during the war and more importantly construct massive stations? --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::------- |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
8
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 17:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
Posted by Joshua Milton Blahyi
"This is not a general issue. It is specific to FW. Trying to generalize it and make it bigger is misleading."
And that is where you are incorrect, everything that happens in this game affects the game as a whole, the only variable is how bad that affect may be and how wide spread it will be. To flatly state that the affects of the proposed changes would be isolated to the FW segment of the game only serves to illustrate how blind you are to the ripple affects of everything that happens in this game. I do have to admit that if CCP isolated some high sec systems so that only FW players were allowed into them then I would agree with your assessment that this is a FW issue only.
"It is only 6 jumps from Amarr to Huola, and the same from Sisiede to Dodi or Hek. No one needs to make thirty jumps to resupply ever." Thank you for this and the information in other parts of your post, I now know a little more about a section of this game I freely admitted I knew very little about.
Since my first post another though occurred to me and Yun Kuai points to it in the post above. I believe that he did not follow your logic to it's ultimate conclusion so I will do that.
Why would you allow your enemy to build a station in your space? A station fully capable of producing any and all materials needed for war. So Yun Kuai is correct to stay true to your logic CCP will have to remove all stations belonging to opposing factions from all areas of space.
But what the hell why bother with the no docking thing when you can simply eliminate your enemies ability to easily enter into your space by having the gates block them. Wow that would be cool and so true to what would happen in real life, then you FW guys could get to know and love the countless hours it would take to transition vast reaches of space just to get to your target area. Just think so life like and so much fun to be had, and so much game time wasted.
Seriously I did think of an alternative to the original proposal. Since CCP removing all stations owned by enemy or affiliated factions from all areas of space is not going to happen and to minimize the impact of this change on the rest of the game I suggest this and following your logic this makes sense. Instead of banning docking at all stations in enemy space you only allow docking at stations belonging to factions that are friendly to your own. |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
13
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 15:47:00 -
[24] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote:Posted by Joshua Milton Blahyi
"This is not a general issue. It is specific to FW. Trying to generalize it and make it bigger is misleading."
And that is where you are incorrect, everything that happens in this game affects the game as a whole, the only variable is how bad that affect may be and how wide spread it will be. To flatly state that the affects of the proposed changes would be isolated to the FW segment of the game only serves to illustrate how blind you are to the ripple affects of everything that happens in this game. I do have to admit that if CCP isolated some high sec systems so that only FW players were allowed into them then I would agree with your assessment that this is a FW issue only.
OK, you need to expand on the effects for the game as whole. Please provide some examples of how removing docking rights from Militia members affects people in Null and WH space.
Donnachadh wrote:
Why would you allow your enemy to build a station in your space? A station fully capable of producing any and all materials needed for war. So Yun Kuai is correct to stay true to your logic CCP will have to remove all stations belonging to opposing factions from all areas of space.
Can you build stations in high sec? This is a matter of Militia members and their ability to dock in enemy high sec.
Donnachadh wrote: But what the hell why bother with the no docking thing when you can simply eliminate your enemies ability to easily enter into your space by having the gates block them. Wow that would be cool and so true to what would happen in real life, then you FW guys could get to know and love the countless hours it would take to transition vast reaches of space just to get to your target area. Just think so life like and so much fun to be had, and so much game time wasted.
First, I do not agree with denying people access to enemy high sec. People who want to go and deliver a blow to their enemy should be able to do so, if they chose. Making it more difficult for them to reside in enemy high sec full time is the issue as I see it.
Second, I know you don't know much about FW, but the life of boring 20 jump trips is not one that anyone who lives in the FW zones has to experience. In my experience I never have to make more than 2 jumps to find a fight. FW folks who live outside the warzone are just tourists, any low sec resident will attest to the ease with which one can find content.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1253
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 16:03:00 -
[25] - Quote
Change "because it make sense with the lore" are all fun and games until you realize we are playing EVE online, the game where using alts is common place and such alts would completely bypass this mecanic change anyway. |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
13
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 16:08:00 -
[26] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Change "because it make sense with the lore" are all fun and games until you realize we are playing EVE online, the game where using alts is common place and such alts would completely bypass this mecanic change anyway.
How does using a non militia alt allow you to circumvent it?
You can't undock and use a non miltiia alt to attack WT's without getting concorded. What am I missing? |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1254
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Posted - 2014.09.17 17:02:00 -
[27] - Quote
Joshua Milton Blahyi wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote:Change "because it make sense with the lore" are all fun and games until you realize we are playing EVE online, the game where using alts is common place and such alts would completely bypass this mecanic change anyway. How does using a non militia alt allow you to circumvent it? You can't undock and use a non miltiia alt to attack WT's without getting concorded. What am I missing?
It circumvent the rule because your out of militia alt can fetch whatever you want and haul it where your main can dock. There is no point into preventing people from docking if you can do everything you would while docked as easily as using an alt. People already use out of militia alts for their stuff they need done in empire space anyway. |
Joshua Milton Blahyi
Therapists Inc
13
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 17:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:
It circumvent the rule because your out of militia alt can fetch whatever you want and haul it where your main can dock. There is no point into preventing people from docking if you can do everything you would while docked as easily as using an alt. People already use out of militia alts for their stuff they need done in empire space anyway.
This has nothing to do with hauling. Having access to stuff is not the point of this thread either. Please feel free to re read the thread and contribute. |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
94
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 18:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: But what the hell why bother with the no docking thing when you can simply eliminate your enemies ability to easily enter into your space by having the gates block them. Wow that would be cool and so true to what would happen in real life, then you FW guys could get to know and love the countless hours it would take to transition vast reaches of space just to get to your target area. Just think so life like and so much fun to be had, and so much game time wasted.
Gates are managed by CONCORD if I'm not mistaken.
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