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Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
52
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 01:07:00 -
[151] - Quote
I think enough has been said that CCP knows we do not Like One of the changes and its hurting our space. Now it is just a matter of seeing if they care enough to back up a few changes or make more constructive changes to Pull Players back into w space.
Here are a few of my ideas.
1. Sleepers faction Drops= this will Give us officer / faction drops same as other space and will drive ppl into whs to hunt for them.
2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections
3. Make lower class wh sleeper drops better and more worth while to run. this is class 1-3 also let make a few more of the triggers random to take out the boring predictable assembly line style of running sights. Maybe give them some escalations as well if you warp in bs's or caps for all class sites
That is all i have for now but a few constructive ideas for you to look over Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
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Scrubnbubble
Danneskjold Shipping Chained Reactions
0
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Posted - 2014.09.08 04:28:00 -
[152] - Quote
Moloney wrote:Tisban wrote:Nobody needs to lose their jobs, let's not start World War 3, it isn't totally terrible - it just failed to achieve the original aims of Hyperion and needs some tweaks to make Wormhole Space more viable to increase activity.
Yes they do need to lose their job. You said your self I at they failed to accomplish the primary objective of the patch. Now we know they are hiding under a rock. If I go to Starbucks and order a coffee, the server hands me a cup of mud and tells me that if I don't drink fast it will either explode or someone else will steal it. Then hides under the counter. I would want them fired to.
Because people don't ever make mistakes. Holy crap, lighten up. Do I like the changes? No (except the BM changes - awesome). Am I going to be screaming someone needs to get fired? No. You sir, should never be an employer.
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
197
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 12:25:00 -
[153] - Quote
Scrubnbubble wrote:Moloney wrote:Tisban wrote:Nobody needs to lose their jobs, let's not start World War 3, it isn't totally terrible - it just failed to achieve the original aims of Hyperion and needs some tweaks to make Wormhole Space more viable to increase activity.
Yes they do need to lose their job. You said your self I at they failed to accomplish the primary objective of the patch. Now we know they are hiding under a rock. If I go to Starbucks and order a coffee, the server hands me a cup of mud and tells me that if I don't drink fast it will either explode or someone else will steal it. Then hides under the counter. I would want them fired to. Because people don't ever make mistakes. Holy crap, lighten up. Do I like the changes? No (except the BM changes - awesome). Am I going to be screaming someone needs to get fired? No. You sir, should never be an employer.
There's "making mistakes and admitting them" and then there's "making mistakes and then sticking your head in the sand singing 'lalalalala' over and over so you can't hear that it was a mistake" |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1807
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 12:49:00 -
[154] - Quote
What do you expect when the guy who designed the Nestor is given the job of "fixing" wormhole space? +1 |
Moth Eisig
Soliloquy Against Death
55
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 16:49:00 -
[155] - Quote
Gunner GzR wrote:
3. Make lower class wh sleeper drops better and more worth while to run. this is class 1-3
C4s too. |
Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
55
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 01:31:00 -
[156] - Quote
Moth Eisig wrote:Gunner GzR wrote:
3. Make lower class wh sleeper drops better and more worth while to run. this is class 1-3
C4s too.
yea i did not include 4's in that statement as i tend to run c4 s to pay for my ships to fight with and it seemed self serving Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
66
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 09:27:00 -
[157] - Quote
Gunner GzR wrote:Moth Eisig wrote:Gunner GzR wrote:
3. Make lower class wh sleeper drops better and more worth while to run. this is class 1-3
C4s too. yea i did not include 4's in that statement as i tend to run c4 s to pay for my ships to fight with and it seemed self serving
C4 anoms seem to average on the better side of 200mil/hour, imo no need to pump that up any more.
About the Hyperion changes? Brilliant. Dual statics made C4 space the best w-space so far, persistent signatures make scanning easier, bookmarks are easier to handle in an alliance (until we get alliance bms) and overall the activity seems on par with activity 2 years ago.
Mass spawning change has made literally no difference whatsoever to our operations, it maybe adds a bit more interest in jumping wormholes in certain ships, but in any case it's certainly not any kind of an issue for wormhole community.
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DaReaper
Net 7 The Last Brigade
927
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 20:14:00 -
[158] - Quote
TLDR;
I disagree however. My C5 has had a few connections, and sometimes just one. The second static in c4's is a blessing as I have been able to raid other holes when the c4 is dead. My biggest complaint is the darn respawn on sigs. I have had 5 non wormholes in my system snce hyp. 4 gas sites, 1 relic. That's it.
Everything else I have not had an issue with. And if more people leave, then that means more money fro me. OMG Comet Mining idea!!! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=331766 |
Mister Tuggles
Faceless Men
101
|
Posted - 2014.09.10 01:23:00 -
[159] - Quote
From what I've been reading in all the threads it seems c4s got hit the hardest. They already had the lowest population of all the class of WHs, but now a lot of the corps living in c4s have packed up shop. It is rather sad that CCP is so blind to the goings on of their game that they let the hugely negative changes they make to an entire segment of the game persist for so long without so much as an official response.
A simple "We screwed up, our bad" would suffice. Instead we are stuck playing the waiting game which will end up with even more people evaccing out of their homes. |
Moloney
Faceless Men
144
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 08:47:00 -
[160] - Quote
Roll back Hyperion
Apologise for your behavior over this release.
Fix pos management. (The only real thing we wanted in the first place!)
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Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 09:14:00 -
[161] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:What do you expect when the guy who designed the Nestor is given the job of "fixing" wormhole space?
LOL
You sir, have a gift for one-liners. |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
14
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 17:54:00 -
[162] - Quote
Kadm wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Eh, if anything needs to go...
It's all the whiney threads. This a million times.
If there is anything to be learned from years of playing this game, it is that the player base is extremely pessimistic and will complain about every change and every patch. This usually continues until most of the player base realize that the change wasn't as bad as they thought, or gave them an additional avenue/mechanic that gives them more of an advantage than the change's perceived negative.
"Bah bah bah frigate holes" will turn to "Sweet, a frigate hole, lets get a frigate gang going and find some targets for cheap(er) pvp" "Bah bah bah mass distance" will turn to "Let's bait these guys into a fight by rolling with a bait Orca."
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
30
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 18:07:00 -
[163] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:Kadm wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Eh, if anything needs to go...
It's all the whiney threads. This a million times. If there is anything to be learned from years of playing this game, it is that the player base is extremely pessimistic and will complain about every change and every patch. This usually continues until most of the player base realize that the change wasn't as bad as they thought, or gave them an additional avenue/mechanic that gives them more of an advantage than the change's perceived negative. "Bah bah bah frigate holes" will turn to "Sweet, a frigate hole, lets get a frigate gang going and find some targets for cheap(er) pvp" "Bah bah bah mass distance" will turn to "Let's bait these guys into a fight by rolling with a bait Orca."
Cheaper pvp really? You found much cheap worthy pvp so far with the frig holes? It been out for some time now, so have you?
And yes, bait orca not obvious at all. |
calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
202
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 18:51:00 -
[164] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:Kell Braugh wrote:Kadm wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Eh, if anything needs to go...
It's all the whiney threads. This a million times. If there is anything to be learned from years of playing this game, it is that the player base is extremely pessimistic and will complain about every change and every patch. This usually continues until most of the player base realize that the change wasn't as bad as they thought, or gave them an additional avenue/mechanic that gives them more of an advantage than the change's perceived negative. "Bah bah bah frigate holes" will turn to "Sweet, a frigate hole, lets get a frigate gang going and find some targets for cheap(er) pvp" "Bah bah bah mass distance" will turn to "Let's bait these guys into a fight by rolling with a bait Orca." Cheaper pvp really? You found much cheap worthy pvp so far with the frig holes? It been out for some time now, so have you? And yes, bait orca not obvious at all.
Bait orca is sooo 2010. Bait marauder is all the rage. ~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ |
Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
104
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 08:20:00 -
[165] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:Kell Braugh wrote:
If there is anything to be learned from years of playing this game, it is that the player base is extremely pessimistic and will complain about every change and every patch. This usually continues until most of the player base realize that the change wasn't as bad as they thought, or gave them an additional avenue/mechanic that gives them more of an advantage than the change's perceived negative.
"Bah bah bah frigate holes" will turn to "Sweet, a frigate hole, lets get a frigate gang going and find some targets for cheap(er) pvp"
Cheaper pvp really? You found much cheap worthy pvp so far with the frig holes? It been out for some time now, so have you?
Frig holes are like the Nestor of w-space. Frigs have a pretty limited engagement profile in terms of what they can kill without getting WTF BBQ'd. Stuff you'll find on the other side of the frig hole is prolly not gonna be other frigs & dessys. More like T3's, smart bombing battleships, HACs, HICs, and other things that will basically **** you up. Or there will be nothing on the other side.
I guess its cheaper PvP since you won't lose much when you lose your frig. But you would need a freaking huge swarm of the little buggers to get kills against the most common targets in w-space. Hence the Nestor comparison. Plus they're annoying because you can't collapse them with mass. |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD La Division Bleue
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 08:46:00 -
[166] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote: "Bah bah bah frigate holes" will turn to "Sweet, a frigate hole, lets get a frigate gang going and find some targets for cheap(er) pvp"
Never seen a gang frig in wspace.
What do you want to kill in frig instead of T1 Indus, Noctis or other frig ?
These connexions are simply useless. A game design fail based on a bad knowledge about player practices.
The issue with mass-based distance jump is the time consuming effort to roll. Not the danger. It lower the game experience for no gain.
Theses 2 changes combined are just pushing out of wspace small/mid corps (and they are the future of wspace corp). Most of C1/C2 encountered since Hyperion have 4 to 10 connexions. This is insane.
This game update is really a disaster on a long term run. |
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 10:31:00 -
[167] - Quote
Maduin Shi wrote: There can be a role for frig holes in w-space, but I don't see one currently outside of trolling people who are more likely than most to be new to w-space. Hence the Nestor comparison.
Make them spawn to null, or just kspace only. Its more likely you find something to do with them then.
|
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
543
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 12:02:00 -
[168] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:Maduin Shi wrote: There can be a role for frig holes in w-space, but I don't see one currently outside of trolling people who are more likely than most to be new to w-space. Hence the Nestor comparison. Make them spawn to null, or just kspace only. Its more likely you find something to do with them then. CCP intended them to screw with W-space, because for some reason before the frig holes we somehow weren't able to engage in frigate combat. If they meant for them to be useful for places that actually use frigates, aside from Nullsec frigate blobs into W-space, they would have added them to all of K-space.
Like so many other things lately, the change (addition) mostly only raises eyebrows of the big groups, while it provides a huge incentive for small groups to cut their activities when one is present.
Not only does CCP not understand W-space, but I'm starting to think they don't know what life is like outside of a 5000-man alliance. |
Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
108
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 13:46:00 -
[169] - Quote
Meytal wrote: CCP intended them to screw with W-space, because for some reason before the frig holes we somehow weren't able to engage in frigate combat. If they meant for them to be useful for places that actually use frigates, aside from Nullsec frigate blobs into W-space, they would have added them to all of K-space.
Like so many other things lately, the change (addition) mostly only raises eyebrows of the big groups, while it provides a huge incentive for small groups to cut their activities when one is present.
Not only does CCP not understand W-space, but I'm starting to think they don't know what life is like outside of a 5000-man alliance.
Well the frig holes can already connect to null so can't help but think the CCP dev team behind this was like "hey goonswarm harpy fleets are awesome, lets send them to w-space and raise hell there hederpy derp derp" and there ya go.
For wormhole dudes, putting this kind of hole in our space is like building an aircraft carrier in the Sahara. I mean, to me it just has this "WTF is that doing here" quality to it. Its there, but there's no water, no backdrop provided to make sense out of it. Its like a half-finished project.
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Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
818
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 14:11:00 -
[170] - Quote
Maduin Shi wrote:
Well the frig holes can already connect to null so can't help but think the CCP dev team behind this was like "hey goonswarm harpy fleets are awesome, lets send them to w-space and raise hell there hederpy derp derp" and there ya go.
For wormhole dudes, putting this kind of hole in our space is like building an aircraft carrier in the Sahara. I mean, to me it just has this "WTF is that doing here" quality to it. Its there, but there's no water, no backdrop provided to make sense out of it. Its like a half-finished project.
Liking this post just because I think its the first time I've ever seen "aircraft carrier in the Sahara" used as a metaphor. |
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Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
22
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 14:18:00 -
[171] - Quote
Maduin Shi wrote: Well the frig holes can already connect to null so can't help but think the CCP dev team behind this was like "hey goonswarm harpy fleets are awesome, lets send them to w-space and raise hell there hederpy derp derp" and there ya go.
For wormhole dudes, putting this kind of hole in our space is like building an aircraft carrier in the Sahara. I mean, to me it just has this "WTF is that doing here" quality to it. Its there, but there's no water, no backdrop provided to make sense out of it. Its like a half-finished project.
Based on my experience (~2 yrs in null blobbing it up), I'd say it is highly unlikely a goon harpy fleet (or any other entity) would end up forming a 200 man fleet solely to roam in wspace. Most null dwellers tend to ignore wormholes, and i doubt FC's would bother forming up to gank a ratter (most of the time fleets of that size take around half hr or so to form up).
However, i do remember the time when NC. came thru a wormhole connection into fountain and ganked the local NPC dwellers that liked to hotdrop peeps in their carriers - resulting in plenty of capital km whoring action on my behalf (pre-hyperion)
So never say never, but i seriously doubt this will become a regular occurrence. Having said that, I'm not in favour of them as wspace to wspace holes. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 15:20:00 -
[172] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:However, i do remember the time when NC. came thru a wormhole connection into fountain and ganked the local NPC dwellers that liked to hotdrop peeps in their carriers - resulting in plenty of capital km whoring action on my behalf (pre-hyperion) So they used wormholes as a route between two Nullsec destinations? If that's the case, CCP should just make them K-K holes instead of W-K and W-W. I'm pretty sure Lowsec would love those holes. |
Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
22
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 16:20:00 -
[173] - Quote
Meytal wrote:Jez Amatin wrote:However, i do remember the time when NC. came thru a wormhole connection into fountain and ganked the local NPC dwellers that liked to hotdrop peeps in their carriers - resulting in plenty of capital km whoring action on my behalf (pre-hyperion) So they used wormholes as a route between two Nullsec destinations? If that's the case, CCP should just make them K-K holes instead of W-K and W-W. I'm pretty sure Lowsec would love those holes.
yes that is correct, i probably could have made it clearer, and i agree lowsec to null holes could actually be quite nice. However, on re-reading the dev blog this isn't even a possibility:
Quote:These new small ship wormholes will only originate in W-space systems, and can lead to any other W-space systems or to nullsec space. The chance of connections between the extreme ends of the spectrum (very high class to very low class and vice versa) will be somewhat lower to ensure that low-class wormholes do not become flooded with frigate fleets from higher classes.
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/into-the-known-unknowns/
the second point is kinda interesting as it suggests CCP recognise the problems of numbers in high vs low class holes, yet the current approach is based on a linear scale which assumes rising population levels from c1 through to c6. I'd argue this is not necessarily true. For instance, i'd wager there are probably quite a few larger c2 corps than c3-c4 corps... altho, i accept this is based on observation rather than actual metrics. |
Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
43
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 16:32:00 -
[174] - Quote
Maduin Shi wrote: The only real place where frig holes have a "use" is disrupting PvE activities in lower class holes. Ganking T1 BC's, BS's, salvage destroyers, noctis, and the occasional solo PvE T3. The problem is there's nothing the latter can do to prevent such a gank, except wait for the frig hole to close on its own or park a scout alt on the hole. This on top of all the extra random connections, mass/spawn distance making it harder/riskier to roll those extra connections and the lack of any incentive to bother with lower class wormhole sites in the first place and....well its easy to see that the current iteration of frig holes isn't going to bring more pilots to actually live in w-space, especially in lower class holes.
I raised this at the WH roundtable, and most people didn't recognise it as a concern. But yes, 10-15 frigates will cause issues to lots of C2 corps while being not particularly bothersome to most C5 corps, and it's all very well telling them to bulk up - but their statics are only going to support a certain (smaller) number of people to start with. |
Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
111
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 05:11:00 -
[175] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote: Yes that is correct, i probably could have made it clearer, and i agree lowsec to null holes could actually be quite nice.
Connecting FW systems would be pretty cool. And null to null frig holes might be a game-changer as far as enabling surprise attacks via cyno into deep blue null as it would bypass local and intel channels. Might be a place for it there if the sov changes are halfway decent. |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
210
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 05:48:00 -
[176] - Quote
Gunner GzR wrote:I think all the treads are not winy but the community feels they have been wronged.
CCP asked for input and got it then just totally ignored it.
Its funny how most ppl troll threads when It dose not affect them but fail to give thought to How or when it will happen to them or how it will affect them in the long term.
Less pilots in w space = less things to shoot
I feel the biggest Thing ever implemented up until now to hurt w space was incursions. This gave Pilots a option to make lots of isk without having to go into w space to run sights.
Now with the mass based jumps Smaller corps are hurt by this. Larger corps not so much except down the road when there is less to shoot at
2 . Delayed k162 spawns are a good change
3. Frig Holes are just Clutter and we are finding them mostly useless
4 re spawning mass on whs i really don't have a opinion on.
As i said Above we will see in the long run How detrimental this is to w space But the Future Dose not look bright.
If CCP was too remove local From low and Null this would make 0.0 and Low much more interesting to Fly in and remove some server load from the data base
PS Oh Yea hey Mcpate..Go Ducks!!!!
Only got half way through this post then signed me self out of this thread.
Back to school with your Gunner! At least before you run for CSM anyway. |
Meytal
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
544
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 13:54:00 -
[177] - Quote
Maduin Shi wrote:Jez Amatin wrote: Yes that is correct, i probably could have made it clearer, and i agree lowsec to null holes could actually be quite nice.
Connecting FW systems would be pretty cool. And null to null frig holes might be a game-changer as far as enabling surprise attacks via cyno into deep blue null as it would bypass local and intel channels. Might be a place for it there if the sov changes are halfway decent. Yeah, K-K frigate holes makes much more sense than W-K and W-W. They are (can be) strategic back alleys through heavily guarded areas. Nullsec and especially Lowsec loves them some frigates, too. When they were being introduced, K-space people were asking for them but CCP said no (or to wait, or something).
In W-space, we don't normally use frigates. We could if we wanted, but we don't. These holes only restrict what we would normally do, so in effect it's saying: "Those shiny toys you like to play with? You can't use them here. Use those things you either don't own or haven't flown since you moved in. You're welcome."
Frigate holes are a great idea. In K-space. They need to take them out of W-space and put them where they fit, not shoe-horn them into a place where they don't. Give them to people who want them, not to people who don't.
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Gunner GzR
Anomalous Existence Low-Class
59
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 00:14:00 -
[178] - Quote
I think enough has been said that CCP knows we do not Like One of the changes and its hurting our space. Now it is just a matter of seeing if they care enough to back up a few changes or make more constructive changes to Pull Players back into w space.
Here are a few of my ideas.
1. Sleepers faction Drops= this will Give us officer / faction drops same as other space and will drive ppl into whs to hunt for them.
2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections
3. Make lower class wh sleeper drops better and more worth while to run. this is class 1-3 also let make a few more of the triggers random to take out the boring predictable assembly line style of running sights. Maybe give them some escalations as well if you warp in bs's or caps for all class sites
That is all i have for now but a few constructive ideas for you to look over Change For the Sake of Change is bad Listen to you community CCP We are what make you Money. Remove Local From 0.0 and Low Space Please
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Frightstar
Rolling Static Gone Critical
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 02:28:00 -
[179] - Quote
Gunner GzR wrote: 2. A higher class wh like a c7 that has massive mass whs that you can move a proper cap fleet and support fleet to run sleeper sites with capital sleepers and get back out . We will be able to have large fleet fights as well in there. Make The class 7 with no moons so it can not be "lived" in and multiple connections
I really like this idea.
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Andiedeath
Sefem Velox Swift Angels Alliance
276
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 06:58:00 -
[180] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:Kadm wrote:Sith1s Spectre wrote:Eh, if anything needs to go...
It's all the whiney threads. This a million times. If there is anything to be learned from years of playing this game, it is that the player base is extremely pessimistic and will complain about every change and every patch. This usually continues until most of the player base realize that the change wasn't as bad as they thought, or gave them an additional avenue/mechanic that gives them more of an advantage than the change's perceived negative. "Bah bah bah frigate holes" will turn to "Sweet, a frigate hole, lets get a frigate gang going and find some targets for cheap(er) pvp" "Bah bah bah mass distance" will turn to "Let's bait these guys into a fight by rolling with a bait Orca."
http://swift.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=25306109
turned into
http://swift.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=25306056
with a quick reship. So yeah "Sweet, a frigate hole, lets get a frigate gang going and find some targets" +1
I reckon quit with the complaints and get on with the game. Director Swift Angels Alliance https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=3247397#post3247397 INGAME CHANNEL: Sefem Public |
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