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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
6
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Posted - 2014.08.31 23:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am by no means a bomber expert, but the consensus among more educated stealth pilots seems to be that the Nemesis is easily the worst stealth bomber.
Looking over the stats, it's easy to see why. The Nemesis just isn't the best at anything. The Manticore is easier to fit. The Hound is faster. The Purifier holds more bombs. Pretty much the only thing the Nemesis has going for it is its aesthetics.
Is there any change that could be made just to make the Nemesis strong in one area? Maybe make it significantly tankier than other bombers, or way more agile? Give it a bump in power grid so it can fit shield mods more easily? Bump its warp speed up a hair?
Nothing crazy, just a reason to use it other than LOL TRAINED GALLENTE FRIGS V ALREADY. You've just read another amazing post by WiNGSPANTT, the 4th Best Commentator on YouTube!GÇïFollow along with my exploration and stealth bomber adventures on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/wingspantt |
Django Askulf
Black Rebel Death Squad
58
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Posted - 2014.09.01 01:28:00 -
[2] - Quote
Works fine here. |
HK -56
State War Academy Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.09.01 01:30:00 -
[3] - Quote
Well, I don't think increasing its agility is really the Gallente style. Those freedom fighter boats are slow, but they sure are durable. But then again by the stealth bombers nature, they are glass cannons! And shouldn't be durable.
Sleekness aside, Gallente favors sensor dampening, which we can assume means they prefer to fight at range (so that their target can't lock them and return violence), and/or that they have a small signature radius to increase lock time for their enemies. And avoid those big bullets that carry mucho violence.
So why not give them some electronic superiority and make the sexy Nemesis have a higher lock range, reduced sig radius, and see what happens?
Also, there is never not a reason for Gallente Frig V... Taranis, Ishkur, even the Incursus...
Btw, love your videos on YT Chance |
Ireland VonVicious
Vicious Trading Company
394
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Posted - 2014.09.01 02:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
I've found it to be ranked number 2 or 3 with the groups I've flown with.
You need to look at the over all performance. |
Samwise Everquest
Because ISK
85
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Posted - 2014.09.01 03:12:00 -
[5] - Quote
1. Because it's Gallente and it looks cool.
2. See 1 |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
70
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Posted - 2014.09.01 05:33:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP should just do as they do with all gallente frigs, swing their little noobish wand and give the Nemesis a dronebay. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
84
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Posted - 2014.09.01 06:32:00 -
[7] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:CCP should just do as they do with all gallente frigs, swing their little noobish wand and give the Nemesis a dronebay. it already got one, they just explode after 30km |
kurage87
EVE University Ivy League
35
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Posted - 2014.09.01 07:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
The choice is between Purifier and Nemesis.
If you know you're hunting T2 then Purifier. If you know you're hunting T1 (or Minnie T2) (or don't really have a plan) then the Nemesis.
Damage type is the only thing that should affect your choice. |
David Koen
24th Imperial Crusade Amarr Empire
9
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Posted - 2014.09.01 11:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
Nemesis is the best choice for hunting warp stabbed lp farmers and relic explorers. It has 4 middle slots to perfectly fine fit two warp scramblers has fast speed and thermal damage to go through victim shield. You know All warp stabbed farmers can spec into shield only. |
Marc Durant
131
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Posted - 2014.09.01 11:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
Celthric Kanerian wrote:CCP should just do as they do with all gallente frigs, swing their little noobish wand and give the Nemesis a dronebay.
That's easily the dumbest idea I've heard in a while.
align, uncloak, target, fire torps/drop bomb and warp ou... "****, my drones, WAIT!". Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
6
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Posted - 2014.09.01 14:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I've found it to be ranked number 2 or 3 with the groups I've flown with.
You need to look at the over all performance.
Do you think that's because they want to fly the Nemesis, or just happens they have Gallente frigs V and not whatever is ranked 3 or 4 in your group? You've just read another amazing post by WiNGSPANTT, the 4th Best Commentator on YouTube!GÇïFollow along with my exploration and stealth bomber adventures on my YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/wingspantt |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1229
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Posted - 2014.09.01 17:35:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ireland VonVicious wrote:I've found it to be ranked number 2 or 3 with the groups I've flown with.
Out of 4. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov! |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
77
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Posted - 2014.09.01 20:39:00 -
[13] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:Celthric Kanerian wrote:CCP should just do as they do with all gallente frigs, swing their little noobish wand and give the Nemesis a dronebay. That's easily the dumbest idea I've heard in a while. align, uncloak, target, fire torps/drop bomb and warp ou... "****, my drones, WAIT!".
It was a joke, captain obvious...
I'm just pointing out a lot of gallente frigs got a drone bay which makes them alittle superior because they're so goddamn to hard... For example the Taranis got a drone bay... A ******* Interceptor with a drone bay... Completely ridicolous.
Have fun messing up my post... (****** homework makes you nuts)
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xPredat0rz
Grey Templars Fidelas Constans
109
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Posted - 2014.09.02 07:41:00 -
[14] - Quote
Well here is the real deal with it.
Thermal damage is fine. It tends to be the lowest overall resist in a fleet fight because armor tanked ships fill the kinetic explosive hole and shield ships fill the EM hole.
Most of the time though your bomb loadout is going to be based on an offset damage to your mainline fleet.
Torp Loadouts for any bomber will always be their racial. Having used torp bombers to wage sov warfare the resists matter less then the up to 25% damage bonus.
My personal choice on bombers for anything
Purifier Hound Nemisis Manticore.
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Experiment 32423
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
26
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Posted - 2014.09.02 13:40:00 -
[15] - Quote
I always felt that the differences between bombers were taken out of proportion and isn't nearly as big of a deal as people like to think it is. |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
338
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Posted - 2014.09.02 13:55:00 -
[16] - Quote
I can fly all of them (an alt can fly some with CovOps V). I only have two problems with the Nemesis.
1. It's butt ugly. But I find this acceptable given that so many other Gallente ships look frickin' awesome. 2. It's hard-ish to fit. It's got stats more conducive to a 3-mid bomber, but it's a 4-mid bomber. Not impossible mind you, but it doesn't have quite as much flexibility as the other bombers. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
423
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Posted - 2014.09.02 14:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
So, just so I'm clear. This is a bunch of low sec faction warfare pilots that don't normally even fit bomb launchers on bombers (I think it's called a BOMBER for a reason) discussing how a particular bomber (nemisis) is bad (for their niche application) and needs a boost? I'm just trying to get my arms around the context. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
395
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Posted - 2014.09.02 16:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I am by no means a bomber expert, but the consensus among more educated stealth pilots seems to be that the Nemesis is easily the worst stealth bomber.
Looking over the stats, it's easy to see why. The Nemesis just isn't the best at anything. The Manticore is easier to fit. The Hound is faster. The Purifier holds more bombs. Pretty much the only thing the Nemesis has going for it is its aesthetics.
Is there any change that could be made just to make the Nemesis strong in one area? Maybe make it significantly tankier than other bombers, or way more agile? Give it a bump in power grid so it can fit shield mods more easily? Bump its warp speed up a hair?
Nothing crazy, just a reason to use it other than LOL TRAINED GALLENTE FRIGS V ALREADY.
Each bomber is good at something better than the other. If you try to make the nemesis do what the hound does or the other way around, you're going to have a bad time.
The strengths of the Nemesis are it's damage type, it's 4 mid slots, the best capacitor out of the 4 mid slot bombers so that it can run all it's modules longer, and the best sig radius out of the 4 mid slot bombers. I have racial frig V for everything and I fly/own all bombers, and I still prefer the Nemesis much of the time. The only thing that's been on my mind is the fact that Isthars/Caldari T2 seem to be very popular these days hurting your ability to do damage in a lot of situations. But that shifts with patches and updates as time goes on.
People that complain about the Nemesis have issues with it over fitting, usually because they don't have all the fitting skills trained to V and look at the Manticore ignoring some of the facts listed above. Hades Effect /-áDispute Services |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
338
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Posted - 2014.09.02 16:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Seraph IX Basarab wrote:People that complain about the Nemesis have issues with it over fitting, usually because they don't have all the fitting skills trained to V and look at the Manticore ignoring some of the facts listed above. My applicable fitting skills are perfect, including AWU V. My (minor) complaint about the Nemesis is that it is often just a tad short on CPU, which requires losing half of it's low slots or rig slots for a fitting mod, or going with a sub-optimal fit. The Purifier has even less CPU, but it can fit a CPU upgrade without so seriously restricting it's low slots; the price it pays for this luxury is one less mid slot.
The same could be said to some extent about the Manticore and Hound with respect to PG, but I think the Manticore is worse off than the Nemesis.
Having said all of that, I qualify this as an inconvenience. It's hardly broken, just a bit less flexible. I still use it, but for different roles than I do other bombers. CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
395
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Posted - 2014.09.02 16:58:00 -
[20] - Quote
Bronson Hughes wrote:Seraph IX Basarab wrote:People that complain about the Nemesis have issues with it over fitting, usually because they don't have all the fitting skills trained to V and look at the Manticore ignoring some of the facts listed above. My applicable fitting skills are perfect, including AWU V. My (minor) complaint about the Nemesis is that it is often just a tad short on CPU, which requires losing half of it's low slots or rig slots for a fitting mod, or going with a sub-optimal fit. The Purifier has even less CPU, but it can fit a CPU upgrade without so seriously restricting it's low slots; the price it pays for this luxury is one less mid slot. The same could be said to some extent about the Manticore and Hound with respect to PG, but I think the Manticore is worse off than the Nemesis. Having said all of that, I qualify this as an inconvenience. It's hardly broken, just a bit less flexible. I still use it, but for different roles than I do other bombers.
Yeah that's true but I think the CPU shortage is only so noticeable on the Nemi because of it's midslots. IIRC The Nemi has more CPU than all bombers but the Manticore.
I like the Manti for dual BCU II T2 fit torp fittings if I'm doing only torp engagements.
I like the Nemi for meta torp launchers + bomb launcher.
I like the hound for meta torp/bomb launcher but if I want to fit a MWD (i almost never do MWDs)
And the Purifier perhaps akin to the Manti for me. Hades Effect /-áDispute Services |
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ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6026
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Posted - 2014.09.02 17:45:00 -
[21] - Quote
Never not fit MWDs on any ship unless you are trying to do something specific. I have always found AB Stealth Bombers to die miserably since they cannot even nominally dictate range. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
338
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Posted - 2014.09.02 18:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Never not fit MWDs on any ship unless you are trying to do something specific. I have always found AB Stealth Bombers to die miserably since they cannot even nominally dictate range. Although this definitely qualifies as something specific, AB bombers hugging a small POS shield do a fantastic job out-tracking non-faction POS guns. Just make sure there's no web batteries.... CCP Falcon's thoughts on suicide ganking. Reading Comprehension: a skill so important it deserves it's own skillbook. I want to create content, not become content. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
396
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Posted - 2014.09.02 18:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Never not fit MWDs on any ship unless you are trying to do something specific. I have always found AB Stealth Bombers to die miserably since they cannot even nominally dictate range.
Ideally though you want to fly bomber gangs with recon support. That means the target should be dual webbed by at least one rapier 30-40 KM +, should be pointed by an Arazu from 50+ as well as damped and TPed and what not from about the same range by the bombers.
AB fits will allow you to fit a harder hitting ship with more ewar capability with better traversal speed.
However in SOME instances, MWD can be more helpful. Just ideally the scenario will be as detailed above and not a requirement. Hades Effect /-áDispute Services |
Fenris Orion
Rapid Withdrawal
10
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Posted - 2014.09.02 20:53:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'd like to see the Nemesis drop a mid slot for a third low slot like the Purifier. More torpedo dps with a third BCS, or the ability to fit a MAPC+MSE, or a DC, without gimping said dps would make the Nemesis much more useful. If you're using it expressly to drop bombs in 0.0/WH space, I don't see the point in fitting anything other than the cloak and launcher. |
Seraph IX Basarab
Hades Effect Surely You're Joking
396
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Posted - 2014.09.03 03:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
Maybe a little bit more CPU and mobility. Giving it the slot lay out of 2 other bombers just isn't realistic. Hades Effect /-áDispute Services |
Spugg Galdon
APOCALYPSE LEGION The Obsidian Front
476
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Posted - 2014.09.03 06:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
Chance Ravinne wrote:I am by no means a bomber expert, but the consensus among more educated stealth pilots seems to be that the Nemesis is easily the worst stealth bomber.
Looking over the stats, it's easy to see why. The Nemesis just isn't the best at anything. The Manticore is easier to fit. The Hound is faster. The Purifier holds more bombs. Pretty much the only thing the Nemesis has going for it is its aesthetics.
Is there any change that could be made just to make the Nemesis strong in one area? Maybe make it significantly tankier than other bombers, or way more agile? Give it a bump in power grid so it can fit shield mods more easily? Bump its warp speed up a hair?
Nothing crazy, just a reason to use it other than LOL TRAINED GALLENTE FRIGS V ALREADY.
Chance, I love your videos and you're an inspiration to all the noobs out there who think that they can't do anything in game until they've trained their toon for 3 years.
On the topic of bombers I find that they're all very similar. The only real difference is damage type and speed. I'm going to EvE Mail you some fits that I think you will find useful for your playstyle.
Keep it up.... I want to see more torpedo deliveries. Even if it's to my cockpit.
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Elliot Vodka
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
73
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Posted - 2014.09.03 11:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
The stealth bombers have not been revamped like most other ships so far, but its on there agenda. Stay patient, and im sure you'll end up getting more of a change than your wanting.
;) Why is it that people think this game is for everyone?A better question would be "Why do some people think this game is only for them?" |
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