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Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.09.01 08:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are a lot of threads bashing the Hyperion changes. I started one with suggestions for the future PVE changes. Only one other person gave any of his suggestions, everyone else just said why things couldn't be done.
If you guys don't be more constructive and post things you would want to see done to W-space, CCP will just do whatever they dream up on their own.
Bashing the Hyperion patch in thread after thread is repetitive and probably past the point where continuing to do that is useful. I doubt they are going to roll all those changes back (though they have adjusted them a little, which is nice) because they invested some time in it, and rarely do game companies spend time on a big patch to then roll most of it back (I've seen games go under rather than their devs admit they made obvious/predictable mistakes.)
$0.02... |
Winthorp
2666
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Posted - 2014.09.01 08:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
Pro tip. |
Billy Hardcore
Jaded.
150
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Posted - 2014.09.01 08:45:00 -
[3] - Quote
First off, they will do as they please regardless, the wh population on its own cannot create enough of a ripple to force CCP to do anything. Secondly , you have to be blind, def, and lazy to not notice the amount of ppl giving out there own "$0.02". Do you even read forums threads? Have you ever heard of a podcast?
CCP is just way to out of touch with the community inside Wh's. They say they listen to the feedback, and maybe they do. Odds are they end up just ignoring it anyway.
If you want "real changes" find a more effective way to make way to get there attention.
Remind them that we the player's pay there bills. #BillyFleet |
Kinraka
Happy Endings. Happy Endings
14
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Posted - 2014.09.01 09:03:00 -
[4] - Quote
if a shuttle has been self destructed at the sun within the last 24 hours the loot drop should be increased to 100% im sick of loosing my faction mods to sleepers Sheep shagger from way back
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1782
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Posted - 2014.09.01 09:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
Who exactly are you to judge?
People have been on these forums for years making suggestions and floating ideas. +1 |
Amak Boma
Dragon Factory
22
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Posted - 2014.09.01 10:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
well rolling back entire patch could be just heartstab to dev/ccp team that worked on it . but if they would roll back only specific functions and leavve patch in there it would be okay. lower class holes should have low traffic but slightly more profits , the frig holes should be rewamped and allow also cruisers .
the frig holes could spawn more frequent if they had max 6 hour lifetime upon activation/scanning class 1 should have dual K-space statics
class 1 should have some chance for high-grade combat site to spawn and maybe wormhole incursions )killing sleepers + sansha) increase site spawning in all wormholes too e.g if in one wormhole combat site or other site wont be activated for 5 days it will decay to spawn in another wormhole , if its activated one day of lifetime longer lifetime for ore sites and shorter lifetime for gas sites (they are quickly depleted, try deplete ore site in one day)
allow fleet/corp/alliance members to have shared scan results so other members dont have scan same wormhole/sites
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Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
13
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Posted - 2014.09.01 10:35:00 -
[7] - Quote
Billy Hardcore wrote:First off, they will do as they please regardless, the wh population on its own cannot create enough of a ripple to force CCP to do anything. Secondly , you have to be blind, def, and lazy to not notice the amount of ppl giving out there own "$0.02". Do you even read forums threads? Have you ever heard of a podcast? Of course they will do as they please, but more and more repetitive crying about what they've done recently is just adding tears to a full bucket. There are dozens of threads all saying the same crap.
They might actually pay some attention to what would help W-space right now, because they will most likely realize their patch had the opposite of its intended effect. They probably won't admit that (game devs rarely do) but it doesn't mean they won't pay more attention to constructive ideas.
Amak Boma wrote:well rolling back entire patch could be just heartstab to dev/ccp team that worked on it . It's not just heartstab. It's CCP's money and peoples' jobs. When they invest money trying to improve W-space and they fail, they can decide to either 1) find out why and work on it again; or 2) decide W-space isn't worth the effort, because not enough customers care about W-space. Someone who is already trying to explain to his manager why thousands of dollars worth of labor has actually damaged W-space activity, not improved it, might have a hard time justifying additional resources to work on it. He might also demonstrate to that manger that he doesn't really understand W-space, so future efforts could be a waste as well.
Is there a benefit to the pages of threads bashing these changes? Sure. If CCP cares at all about why this patch did more harm than good to wormholes, they have plenty of player feedback to draw on.
CCP made predictably bad decisions to get to this point. Who knows what misguided things they might do to "fix it," if they even try. Give them some ideas instead of more bashing, because they already have an ample supply of current bashing. I see very few current suggestions. Yes, you have to re-hash it all, because they are never going to read past page 1. |
Papa Django
CosmoTeK LTD La Division Bleue
28
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Posted - 2014.09.01 11:37:00 -
[8] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote: It's not just heartstab. It's CCP's money and peoples' jobs. When they invest money trying to improve W-space and they fail, they can decide to either 1) find out why and work on it again;
This kind of things happens everyday in software development. This is why most of the dev companies go to agile methods.
When you fail (and it happens), you can rollback and you have lost a few instead of loosing months or years of time dev (like WoD for example).
Pro TIps wrote: 2) decide W-space isn't worth the effort, because not enough customers care about W-space.
It worth the effort because they have already spend 2 months to change the w-space rules. They can spend one week to rollback the worst changes.
Pro TIps wrote: Someone who is already trying to explain to his manager why thousands of dollars worth of labor has actually damaged W-space activity, not improved it, might have a hard time justifying additional resources to work on it. He might also demonstrate to that manger that he doesn't really understand W-space, so future efforts could be a waste as well.
You are discribing a totally incompetent manager. The worst thing they can do right now is nothing and keeping silent.
They are doing the worst right now but i have (a little) hope that they are monitoring wspace activity to check the consequences of their last changes.
Pro TIps wrote: Is there a benefit to the pages of threads bashing these changes? Sure. If CCP cares at all about why this patch did more harm than good to wormholes, they have plenty of player feedback to draw on.
CCP made predictably bad decisions to get to this point. Who knows what misguided things they might do to "fix it," if they even try. Give them some ideas instead of more bashing, because they already have an ample supply of current bashing. I see very few current suggestions. Yes, you have to re-hash it all, because they are never going to read past page 1.
They have all the design data needed in all feedback threads and others thread in that forum section. |
Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
9
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Posted - 2014.09.01 11:52:00 -
[9] - Quote
What would be the point in making suggestions, if they cant even properly acknowledge the 4/5 threadnaughts they already started?
Dont get me wrong, im not a fan of design by committee, and believe CCP would have been better off to say this is what we are going to do... at least from a PR point of view.
TBH, I find myself wondering if 6 weeks dev cycle realistically allows for feedback to inform changes. |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
1183
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:13:00 -
[10] - Quote
Papa Django wrote:Pro TIps wrote: It's not just heartstab. It's CCP's money and peoples' jobs. When they invest money trying to improve W-space and they fail, they can decide to either 1) find out why and work on it again;
This kind of things happens everyday in software development. This is why most of the dev companies go to agile methods. When you fail (and it happens), you can rollback and you have lost a few instead of loosing months or years of time dev (like WoD for example). Pro TIps wrote: 2) decide W-space isn't worth the effort, because not enough customers care about W-space.
It worth the effort because they have already spend 2 months to change the w-space rules. They can spend one week to rollback the worst changes. Pro TIps wrote: Someone who is already trying to explain to his manager why thousands of dollars worth of labor has actually damaged W-space activity, not improved it, might have a hard time justifying additional resources to work on it. He might also demonstrate to that manger that he doesn't really understand W-space, so future efforts could be a waste as well.
You are discribing a totally incompetent manager. The worst thing they can do right now is nothing and keeping silent. They are doing the worst right now but i have (a little) hope that they are monitoring wspace activity to check the consequences of their last changes. Pro TIps wrote: Is there a benefit to the pages of threads bashing these changes? Sure. If CCP cares at all about why this patch did more harm than good to wormholes, they have plenty of player feedback to draw on.
CCP made predictably bad decisions to get to this point. Who knows what misguided things they might do to "fix it," if they even try. Give them some ideas instead of more bashing, because they already have an ample supply of current bashing. I see very few current suggestions. Yes, you have to re-hash it all, because they are never going to read past page 1.
They have all the design data needed in all feedback threads and others thread in that forum section.
Monitoring data is fine and good, however, how granular is that data? Does it show why peoples behaviour changes? Does it even show that it has changed? Ooh more movements, thats good! No not if the movement is people parking their stuff in HS and letting their monthly payments expire..
And those CUSTOMERS who feel -shall we be polite- unconsidered. What about replacing them, that's easy ? We can wait a few weeks for data Right? Hello? Anyone there?
There have been thousands of suggestions of how to improve, help, and revitalise wormhole space over the years, wanted by the community.
They just happen to pick the worst possible one that no one wanted. There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
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Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
470
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:15:00 -
[11] - Quote
Noone wants them to roll back the entire patch. Just the mass based spawning and alter the frigate wormholes.
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calaretu
Honestly We didnt know Unsettled.
183
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:24:00 -
[12] - Quote
For those who didnt pay attention to AT last night. Fozzie will be addressing wormholes at Eve Vegas ~Bringer of happiness
http://collapsedbehind.blogspot.no/ |
Billy Hardcore
Jaded.
154
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
calaretu wrote:For those who didnt pay attention to AT last night. Fozzie will be addressing wormholes at Eve Vegas
And ALL he will say is, " We at CCP are really happy with the way Wh-space is and we love the feedback, keep it up"
Everything they say comes straight out of the office Xerox machine #BillyFleet |
epicurus ataraxia
Lazerhawks
1183
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Posted - 2014.09.01 13:59:00 -
[14] - Quote
calaretu wrote:For those who didnt pay attention to AT last night. Fozzie will be addressing wormholes at Eve Vegas
So "let's see if we can string them out paying for another month or two?"
Right, that'll work, what could possibly go wrong? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
72
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Posted - 2014.09.01 14:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote: Bashing the Hyperion patch in thread after thread is repetitive and probably past the point where continuing to do that is useful.
Probably. But there's not much else to do, except login to your wormhole toons and play in what is now half-broken space. Or pack your bags for k-space. Or unsub.
Pro TIps wrote: If you guys don't be more constructive and post things you would want to see done to W-space, CCP will just do whatever they dream up on their own.
CCP does whatever it wants to do no matter what we do. To make a link between what the community does and what CCP does is asinine.
There's been so many ideas threads, there was Corby's "little things" thread, the Hyperion feedback threads are littered with alternative ideas. Some better than others, but most better than what was implemented against the community's better judgement.
A good chunk of Hyperion consisted of community-derived changes, namely the static sig ID's, improvements to black hole effects, and the K162 changes. All of those were well received. However, mass/distance spawning and the knock-on nerf to hole rolling, uncrashable yet useless frig holes, "grand central station" lower class wormholes, and now problems with site respawns basically ruined Hyperion for a good majority of the wormhole community. Especially small groups and especially PvE oriented players.
In particular the mass/distance spawning change precipitated a lot of problems and there was a community-based alternative that was vastly superior, but CCP ignored it.
The point is the community has been constructive and we have posted alternatives, and the community-derived changes seem to be working out pretty well. So we have a good track record, but the rest of the Hyperion changes were put in against the better judgement of the wormhole community and these changes appear to far outweigh, in terms of negative impact, the benefits of the community-derived changes.
We fought hard against the changes that were obviously going to wreck things. Better alternatives were proposed. They were ignored. That got a lot of folks upset and the response was to bash the patch and CCP. Who can blame them really, all things considered? What's left to do? |
Experiment 32423
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
22
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Posted - 2014.09.01 15:39:00 -
[16] - Quote
There are hundreds upon hundreds of threads filled with excellent feedback and suggestions; yet we are presented with negative changes and nothing but silence from CCP.
They aren't exactly sending out the 'we care about the community' vibe right now, so it's surprising that so many people still offer constructive feedback. |
Alundil
Isogen 5
656
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Posted - 2014.09.01 15:54:00 -
[17] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Who exactly are you to judge?
People have been on these forums for years making suggestions and floating ideas.
Exactly
Op, It's almost like the last 4 years or so of suggestions (to say nothing of the most recent WH CSM requested "Little Things" (let me get that for you because lazy) thread never existed.
Sheesh
I'm right behind you |
Rei Moon
Murderous Inc
57
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:13:00 -
[18] - Quote
-1 op. We gave lots of constructive feedback. CCP gave us one destructive patch. |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3765
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Posted - 2014.09.01 21:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
we havnt been making suggestions because WHs used to work and didnt have issues that needed fixing. you let ccp touch them ONE time and this is what happens.... i for one am not surprised. i called the outcome and have been advising people to urge ccp to NOT touch WHs for years. Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
472
|
Posted - 2014.09.01 22:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Tbf im quite enjoying the frig holes. Had a couple skirmishes with some people through them. HOWEVER, uncrashable is bullcrap and theres way too damn many. |
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