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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 13 post(s) |
Sales Alt negrodamus
SalesAltCorp
7
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Posted - 2014.09.04 01:00:00 -
[121] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Sales Alt negrodamus wrote: * Not all of the 0/0 bpcs from before Crius got converted. Do another DB pass?
Do you have an example I could look up? This sounds like a wrong.
Search through the capital rig bpc market. Stuff like t2 capital trimarks still have a fair amount of 0/0 bpcs for sale. It is prevalent enough that it annoys me when I search through the market for t2 capital rig bpcs and I have to ignore 0/0's.
Here's a specific example:
http://gyazo.com/a890aa3c2ed3a397b35f8f53ae94d1cf
Also, would it be possible to do a pass on the market so that everything actually shows up in it?
For example, elite drone AI (required for augmented drones) can't be sold via the market so it makes sourcing them very difficult.
In general it'd be really, really nice if every non-blueprint thing in contracts could be sold via the market. Mission loot, etc, would be fun to play with and it'd clear out contract clutter.
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Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4105
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Posted - 2014.09.04 06:24:00 -
[122] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Yup, this is an intentional anomaly due to wanting to give the Eos the Myrm hull because it's the drone boat even though it was the field command not the fleet command (and therefore should by default use the Brutix hull). It's not obvious to us that the disruption of messing with the build costs of existing ships is worth making the mapping between ship model and build cost fully consistent. I didn't understand a word of that... it may just be time for me to go to bed... but BLOPS are similar: only one doesn't use jump drive components!
Are they using Jove technology in that one? |
Jo TwoTimes
Just Like Home
1
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Posted - 2014.09.04 06:26:00 -
[123] - Quote
just made a thread on a proposal against team sniping:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4985489#post4985489
i find it much clearer to a have a central thread with ilnked spin off threads rather than a threadnaught |
Jon Lucien
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
68
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Posted - 2014.09.04 10:15:00 -
[124] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote: Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)
Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom)
I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify.
The formula should be [Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax]
For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34 I'm using 1 run for simplicity. System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api 2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2 Our Tax rate is 15% (1.15)
145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up.
Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk
Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?1
4003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5
It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game |
Medalyn Isis
Rosewood Productions Stain Confederation
302
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Posted - 2014.09.04 10:48:00 -
[125] - Quote
So far I am overall very happy with the new changes, and it is a pleasure to manufacture now. Reading through this thread though it seems there are still quite a few bugs.
To be honest, I made a new spreadsheet to calculate install fees, although I didn't even bother to double check it as the fees are so small where I build. Although it sounds like things are not being applied properly from the post above. I suggested when this was on Singularity that it should show a full break down of everything affecting the system cost index, as that would be interesting and let manufacturers make more informed decisions.
Second thing, the BPO UI is great, although it doesn't allow me to see enough of my BPOs in one go. The top section is massive and there is no way to expand the bottom section which shows all my BPOs. I'd like many more options to be able to view all the BPOs much like a hangar.
Also, I don't think much needs to be done on invention, everything works very nicely. Perhaps rebalance the decryptors though as some are pretty useless. I'd be interested to know what your planning, as it all works very nicely right now.
Also the most important thing,,, what is happening with the Rorqual. |
Quentin Rush
State War Academy Caldari State
33
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Posted - 2014.09.04 11:51:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ok, obvius is not obvius Selling 8 freighters and taking down 4 large POS, covers a whole lot of jobcosts And i was falling back to T1, suggesting that this is still intersting
More Constuctive version - UI is great, but not resizeable - No more que is nice, but supply is now vastly increased, outweighing demand - POS needs fix to become intresting again (Where is the stacking bonus?)
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Medalyn Isis
Rosewood Productions Stain Confederation
302
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:05:00 -
[127] - Quote
Quentin Rush wrote:- POS needs fix to become intresting again (Where is the stacking bonus?) It has gone and will hopefully never come back. I really like being able to put different modules in my pos and for it to still be viable.
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CCP Greyscale
C C P C C P Alliance
2561
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:45:00 -
[128] - Quote
Sales Alt negrodamus wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sales Alt negrodamus wrote: * Not all of the 0/0 bpcs from before Crius got converted. Do another DB pass?
Do you have an example I could look up? This sounds like a wrong. Search through the capital rig bpc market. Stuff like t2 capital trimarks still have a fair amount of 0/0 bpcs for sale. It is prevalent enough that it annoys me when I search through the market for t2 capital rig bpcs and I have to ignore 0/0's. Here's a specific example: http://gyazo.com/a890aa3c2ed3a397b35f8f53ae94d1cfAlso, would it be possible to do a pass on the market so that everything actually shows up in it? For example, elite drone AI (required for augmented drones) can't be sold via the market so it makes sourcing them very difficult. In general it'd be really, really nice if every non-blueprint thing in contracts could be sold via the market. Mission loot, etc, would be fun to play with and it'd clear out contract clutter.
Excellent, thank you :) I've made a note to look into this next week (this week is super busy).
Tau Cabalander wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Yup, this is an intentional anomaly due to wanting to give the Eos the Myrm hull because it's the drone boat even though it was the field command not the fleet command (and therefore should by default use the Brutix hull). It's not obvious to us that the disruption of messing with the build costs of existing ships is worth making the mapping between ship model and build cost fully consistent. I didn't understand a word of that... it may just be time for me to go to bed... but BLOPS are similar: only one doesn't use jump drive components! Are they using Jove technology in that one?
So originally we had Field Command (more pew-pew) and Fleet Command (more tanky/linky) and they had different build reqs and the same hulls (cyclone/brutix/prophecy/ferox). When we last rebalanced them, we got rid of the fleet/field distinction, and gave half of them newer hull graphics (myrm/harb/drake/hurricane). For the most part, the old "field command" ships (abso/sleip/astarte/nighthawk) got the new hull and became more DPS-focused IIRC, but in the case of the Gallente pair, the Eos was a fleet command drone boat and the Astarte was a field command blaster boat, and it made very little sense for the Eos to get the Brutix hull and the Astarte to get the Myrm hull given that both T1 equivalents focus on the opposite weapons system, so we broke the pattern and made the Eos a T2 Myrmidon. This means that it has different build requirements to the other "new hull" ships because it's the only one of the four that was previously field rather than fleet command.
The Panther was a bug, it's fixed internally :)
Jon Lucien wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: Can someone show their working on this (ie the calculations you're doing that lead you to conclude that the numbers are wrong) so (again) we can be sure we're looking at the right problem :)
Sure. Here's the calculations as per the information provided in the 3rd party tools dev blog on cost calculations: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/industry-3rd-party-developers/ (Industry cost calculations section near bottom) I'll be using a tengu right now since that's what I produce and can easily screenshot. I'm leaving teams out to simplify. The formula should be [Base production cost] x [# of runs] x [System Index] x [Facility bonus] x [Tax] For a tengu the base production cost at this moment is 145,637,495.34I'm using 1 run for simplicity. System index for 2R-CRW right now is 0.047806290891008 as returned by the api 2R-CRW has an amarr outpost which should give a 0.5 multiplier according to http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/eve-industry-all-you-want-to-know/?_ga=1.264323215.1609854296.1406338389 Appendix 2 Our Tax rate is 15% ( 1.15) 145637495.34 * 1 * 0.047806290891008 * 0.5 * 1.15 = 4003374 rounded up. Current in-game job cost install fee: 8008163 isk Here's the screenshot of this: http://i.imgur.com/kX3k6m6.png?14003374 / 8008163 = 0.49991165 close enough to 0.5 It seems really obvious to me that the facility bonus wasn't properly applied in game
Ditto on the looking-at-next-week, thanks for the numbers :) |
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Medalyn Isis
Rosewood Productions Stain Confederation
302
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Posted - 2014.09.04 13:08:00 -
[129] - Quote
To confirm what the others have said.
On a copy job for one run, the price calculated using the formula ( SCI*Base Job Install Cost*0.02 ) should equal 1917.65 isk
SCI = 0.01133974 Base Job Install Cost = 8455426.366
This is for a Maller BPO.
The price I am getting quoted in game = 2110.00 isk
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Thomas Hurt
Future Methods
311
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Posted - 2014.09.04 13:30:00 -
[130] - Quote
There sure is a lot of nerd math in here. I don't need anything more than my gut to tell me that industry is fine as it is. |
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Tinu Moorhsum
Random Events
313
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Posted - 2014.09.04 13:50:00 -
[131] - Quote
The interface is a welcome improvement.
I would like to see functionality to "Deliver all" and "Queue maximum" (as in the maximum number of repetitions of the currently displayed job as resources/slots will allow).
T- |
Strawberries'n Carnage
Elessar Recruitment and Training Division
0
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:07:00 -
[132] - Quote
Will the information for compressed ores be fixed? Currently they still refer to the blueprint and it is very confusing as to what is required to actually compress ore now. |
Basil Vulpine
Blueprint Haus Get Off My Lawn
42
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:12:00 -
[133] - Quote
Currently the industry window displays at the top how many runs would potentially fit in to the maximum time frame. It is possible to also say how many runs are possible with the parts currently available? Or a button that sets the number of runs to maximum I have the parts for.
Additionally it would be nice to have a button I could press to copy the current input parts list for the displayed job and paste it in to an evemail. That used to be possible with the old industry UI and was handy for shopping lists. |
Medalyn Isis
Rosewood Productions Stain Confederation
302
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 14:14:00 -
[134] - Quote
Thomas Hurt wrote:There sure is a lot of nerd math in here. I don't need anything more than my gut to tell me that industry is fine as it is. ^ GD is that way, you'll find the poor grammar, and illogical arguments, and emotional village idiot gut replies perhaps more to your tastes.
Sorry if you don't understand simple maths, but greyscale asked for examples. And calculating install costs is pretty important to any half competent industrialist. |
Kirin Falense
Some names are just stupid
15
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Posted - 2014.09.04 14:51:00 -
[135] - Quote
Apologize if this has been discussed already.
In anticipation of the patch I put a lot of research in the oven. This was done in the belief that pre-patch rules would apply. In other words that the research I did would be transfered to the new ME / PE system. I have been told that this is not going to happen and was never intended. I find this a bit odd since I read up on a lot of the information available before the patch detailing a conversion from old ME to new ME and likewise for PE. As far as I know none of that specified a distinction between blueprints in research as opposed to blueprints in a hangar.
My problem with this is not that this was the outcome, but how it was done. I believe I read more than your average player about the patch before the patch and I did not see this. If you wanted to distinguish between blueprints in research and blueprints in a hangar players should have been made aware of this well in advance. Once a player submits a research job he does so in the expectation of a certain return, when in conversion a distinction is made you upset that as the player no longer gets the product he / she invested isk/time/fuel in.
Example: Player puts a blueprint in for ME research pre-patch going from ME 0->1 (ME 5% in the new system), he pays X amount of isk for this. What the player actually gets is a direct conversion, different from that specified in patch notes and devblogs, where old ME 0->1 becomes new ME 0% -> 1%. This is significantly different that what the player was expecting based on the choices he made in the game. In most, if not all cases, going from new ME 0%-1% is also significantly cheaper and less time consuming that old ME 0->1.
Are there any plans to take a second look at this? |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
127
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:12:00 -
[136] - Quote
Kirin Falense wrote:Apologize if this has been discussed already.
In anticipation of the patch I put a lot of research in the oven. This was done in the belief that pre-patch rules would apply. In other words that the research I did would be transfered to the new ME / PE system. I have been told that this is not going to happen and was never intended. I find this a bit odd since I read up on a lot of the information available before the patch detailing a conversion from old ME to new ME and likewise for PE. As far as I know none of that specified a distinction between blueprints in research as opposed to blueprints in a hangar.
My problem with this is not that this was the outcome, but how it was done. I believe I read more than your average player about the patch before the patch and I did not see this. If you wanted to distinguish between blueprints in research and blueprints in a hangar players should have been made aware of this well in advance. Once a player submits a research job he does so in the expectation of a certain return, when in conversion a distinction is made you upset that as the player no longer gets the product he / she invested isk/time/fuel in.
Example: Player puts a blueprint in for ME research pre-patch going from ME 0->1 (ME 5% in the new system), he pays X amount of isk for this. What the player actually gets is a direct conversion, different from that specified in patch notes and devblogs, where old ME 0->1 becomes new ME 0% -> 1%. This is significantly different that what the player was expecting based on the choices he made in the game. In most, if not all cases, going from new ME 0%-1% is also significantly cheaper and less time consuming that old ME 0->1.
Are there any plans to take a second look at this?
they changed it about 3 weeks prior to patch
BPO converted on PATCH DAY
Research applied after it comes out
for example, i had a crap ton of ME5 capital BPO's that were going to come out ME9
a week prior to patch i put them in for ME1 and 4 weeks later they all came out ME10 (except 2 didn't convert properly, I have petitioned) |
Maratega
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:55:00 -
[137] - Quote
I like the changes, but now there is much more space to improve.
I made some suggestions in features and ideas, with the title: [ Industry UI ] - Workflow Planner + Queue system for Corps
Here is the link for details: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=363199 |
Kirin Falense
Some names are just stupid
15
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:01:00 -
[138] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote: they changed it about 3 weeks prior to patch
BPO converted on PATCH DAY
Research applied after it comes out
for example, i had a crap ton of ME5 capital BPO's that were going to come out ME9
a week prior to patch i put them in for ME1 and 4 weeks later they all came out ME10 (except 2 didn't convert properly, I have petitioned)
Where do you have this information from? Do you have a link?
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Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
127
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:04:00 -
[139] - Quote
Kirin Falense wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote: they changed it about 3 weeks prior to patch
BPO converted on PATCH DAY
Research applied after it comes out
for example, i had a crap ton of ME5 capital BPO's that were going to come out ME9
a week prior to patch i put them in for ME1 and 4 weeks later they all came out ME10 (except 2 didn't convert properly, I have petitioned)
Where do you have this information from? Do you have a link?
Go back thru the forums from one of about 10 pre crius threads that were 100+ pages each and keep clicking the little blue dev post thing until you see it.
You might be able to search for greyscale as I am almost certain it was his post, but no, I am not going to go back thru there for you, I lived that once and i don't care to go back |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
129
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:08:00 -
[140] - Quote
Kirin Falense wrote:Kenneth Feld wrote: they changed it about 3 weeks prior to patch
BPO converted on PATCH DAY
Research applied after it comes out
for example, i had a crap ton of ME5 capital BPO's that were going to come out ME9
a week prior to patch i put them in for ME1 and 4 weeks later they all came out ME10 (except 2 didn't convert properly, I have petitioned)
Where do you have this information from? Do you have a link?
nvmd above, had it bookmarked:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4817233#post4817233
Notice the date, this is right before expansion |
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Kirin Falense
Some names are just stupid
15
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:02:00 -
[141] - Quote
Thank you. As you pointed out, this information is not easily available, it should have been.
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Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
731
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:56:00 -
[142] - Quote
Kirin Falense wrote:Thank you. As you pointed out, this information is not easily available, it should have been. If you are trying to abuse patch changover mechanics to gain an advantage, it's on you to keep abreast of exactly what the mechanics are. |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
129
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Posted - 2014.09.04 18:21:00 -
[143] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Kirin Falense wrote:Thank you. As you pointed out, this information is not easily available, it should have been. If you are trying to abuse patch changover mechanics to gain an advantage, it's on you to keep abreast of exactly what the mechanics are.
LOL
I think I had to unanchor, carry to station, repackage and then anchor and online 14-15 labs just to get the slots back after so many starting and cancelling of jobs to get the most benefit from the changeover mechanic.
Seemed like every day was a different message. In the end, was a fantastic success, at least personally |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
731
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Posted - 2014.09.04 18:25:00 -
[144] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote: LOL
I think I had to unanchor, carry to station, repackage and then anchor and online 14-15 labs just to get the slots back after so many starting and cancelling of jobs to get the most benefit from the changeover mechanic.
Seemed like every day was a different message. In the end, was a fantastic success, at least personally
yeah, my research jobs may have taken an additional three months because I had to cancel and redo once that was posted, but the ME10% supercarrier bpos and the ME9% titan bpo were worth it |
Czeris
Wildly Inappropriate Goonswarm Federation
119
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Posted - 2014.09.04 19:25:00 -
[145] - Quote
Why are the bpcs found in data/relic sites still me 0/0?
This feels like an oversight.
The ones that were in my inventory from pre crius were updated with enhanced me/pe just like all the other invention bpcs, but any new ones i find are 0/0 making them significantly worse than any invented ones. These bpcs were a nice, random bonus (since the vast majority are useless) but now they have all become largely worthless.
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Kirin Falense
Some names are just stupid
15
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Posted - 2014.09.04 19:29:00 -
[146] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote: If you are trying to abuse patch changover mechanics to gain an advantage, it's on you to keep abreast of exactly what the mechanics are.
Actually this was just research I was doing on a regular basis. Not to say I was not expecting comments like this, keep trolling goon! |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
67
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Posted - 2014.09.04 22:44:00 -
[147] - Quote
The 0/0 T2 rig BPC thing reminds me of another thing I ran across recently... Exploration-sourced T2 rig BPCs are still being generated at 0/0. This used to be better than invention-produced ones, but now it's worse. (Although, to be fair, it only matters on big blueprints; many of them use less than 10 of any given material per run.)
Was this intentional? |
Kenneth Feld
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
136
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Posted - 2014.09.04 22:58:00 -
[148] - Quote
Ranamar wrote:The 0/0 T2 rig BPC thing reminds me of another thing I ran across recently... Exploration-sourced T2 rig BPCs are still being generated at 0/0. This used to be better than invention-produced ones, but now it's worse. (Although, to be fair, it only matters on big blueprints; many of them use less than 10 of any given material per run.)
Was this intentional?
Greyscale said about 2 pages ago he would look into this...geez, at least read a little bit back before asking |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
67
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Posted - 2014.09.04 23:16:00 -
[149] - Quote
Kenneth Feld wrote:Ranamar wrote:The 0/0 T2 rig BPC thing reminds me of another thing I ran across recently... Exploration-sourced T2 rig BPCs are still being generated at 0/0. This used to be better than invention-produced ones, but now it's worse. (Although, to be fair, it only matters on big blueprints; many of them use less than 10 of any given material per run.)
Was this intentional? Greyscale said about 2 pages ago he would look into this...geez, at least read a little bit back before asking
From what I saw, Greyscale said he would look into things that weren't converted right. These weren't converted at all: they were spawned *after* Crius was released.
Fakedit: On the other hand, it does look like I got scooped by someone two posts above me. I may have posted from page 12 instead of page 13 for some reason. |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
403
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 03:32:00 -
[150] - Quote
Drago Shouna wrote: Sorry guys I disagree. Yes something needs doing (maybe). As a mainly one man corp I just cannot justify the cost of buying then running even a small POS for the small increase in mining income, and i'm sure that i'm by far from being the only one thinking the same.
Maybe if players in a system could share a POS without being in the same corp it would help, or at least be able to allow players to use a compression array by invite or something. Heck even corps in the same alliance can't use each others POS facilities atm.
Yes i'd sell some compressed, but it just isn't worth it as it stands. But I'm still not sure station facilities are the way forward to compress.
You do know that as long as it's all anchored you can leave your pos offline and only turn it on when you need it, like to use the compression array. Load that thing up with what would normally be a week's worth of fuel, and you'll see that it lasts, like, forever if you do this.
Either the rules apply to everyone, or they don't justly apply to anyone.
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