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Jestor's Testor
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.09.02 03:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
It seems that the Orca is to be better at just about everything over other haulers. Especially raw space. Is there any major advantage the DST has over it?
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Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
643
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Posted - 2014.09.02 04:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
cheaper, faster and easier to train into. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6024
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Posted - 2014.09.02 05:42:00 -
[3] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:cheaper, faster and easier to train into. Plus the warp core stabilizer bonus (you are immune to 2 warp disruptors or 1 warp scrambler).
Basically, the Orca is to a Deep Space Transport what a Battleship is to a HAC. Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4400
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Posted - 2014.09.02 06:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:cheaper, faster and easier to train into.
Less of a loot pinata. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
3775
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Posted - 2014.09.02 08:06:00 -
[5] - Quote
Medium micro jump drive too.
Hard to lock one down. Unlike an orca, which you can bump to hell and gone. MMJD means 'activate, get bumped, go in random direction, warp while people are on their way' Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1486
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Posted - 2014.09.02 13:49:00 -
[6] - Quote
Let's not forget the absolutely crazy overheat bonusses Deep Space Transports get. Have yet to test them to their limits but it seems to me DST's have a better chance of escaping warp disruption, and successfully burning back to gate. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
287
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Posted - 2014.09.02 14:25:00 -
[7] - Quote
Like just about everything in eve, whether you use a dt or an orca is situational. An orca allows for boosting and can carry more stuff. It also allows you to carry fitted and rigged ships and to use a ship maintenance bay. The down sides of an orca are that it is very slow, so slow that people dont generally like to use them as a hauler in low or null sec. Now a dt is cheaper and faster, but carries less stuff. A dt has +2 stabs and a significant burst tank from overheating. A dt also has the potential to fit an mmjd which cannot be stopped except with a scram. A dt is therefore harder to stop then an orca if a person is paying attention but less versatile. BTW despite +2 stabs, MMJD and burst tank, DTs are still generally not favored in null/low. Blockade runners and jf (if you can afford one) are the preferred haulers for low and null. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Paranoid Loyd
1672
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Posted - 2014.09.02 20:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
I question the MMJD theory, even with the skill trained to 5 your spool up time is 9 seconds. Fitting an MWD will allow you to warp in 10 seconds and still gives you the option to burn back to the gate if you get bumped before you can warp off. Assuming you start the cycle before you are scrammed the MWD will still get you up to the speed you need to be going by the end of the cycle, whereas if you are scrammed at any time during the MJD cycle you will not jump.
Unless I am confused about how the scram works against the MJD I think MWD is preferred. Can anyone confirm if you will still jump if you have started the spool up before you are scrammed? "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4525
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Posted - 2014.09.02 20:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
well bastion will stop it from functioning, hmm must go and test this
*rummages around for sisters combat probes*
i will report back =][= |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
288
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Posted - 2014.09.02 20:56:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:I question the MMJD theory, even with the skill trained to 5 your spool up time is 9 seconds. Fitting an MWD will allow you to warp in 10 seconds and still gives you the option to burn back to the gate if you get bumped before you can warp off. Assuming you start the cycle before you are scrammed the MWD will still get you up to the speed you need to be going by the end of the cycle, whereas if you are scrammed at any time during the MJD cycle you will not jump.
Unless I am confused about how the scram works against the MJD I think MWD is preferred. Can anyone confirm if you will still jump if you have started the spool up before you are scrammed?
My understanding that if you are scrammed the MJD will simply not work. If you are in lowsec, you are probably better off fitting a mwd and learning the warp cloak trick. My guess is that in null it would be the MJD over the MWD because of bubbles. I dont think motoring back to the gate helps you in either low or null, because there will be that one guy who doesnt agress and jumps with you. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
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Summer Isle
Autumn Industrial Enterprises
56
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Posted - 2014.09.02 20:59:00 -
[11] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:It also allows you to carry fitted and rigged ships and to use a ship maintenance bay.
You can place rigged ships in the DST's hold, as well, but it only gets 60k m3 whereas the Orca has 400k m3. It tends to be a non-consideration, though, unless all you want to do is move a pair of fit, rigged frigs or destroyers. (Just tossing this out as an FYI, as opposed to an actual major use).
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:The down sides of an orca are that it is very slow You can stick a Prototype 100mn MWD on an Orca to achieve a 10-second align. You need a Reactor Control Unit I to do it, though, so you end up with almost no PG for tank, but you can at least get a quick align.
This fit gives 129k EHP with a 10-second align:
Prototype 100mn MWD Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Adaptive Invuln II
Reactor Control Unit II Reactor Control Unit II
Large Core Defense Field Extender II Large Anti-EM Screen Ref II Large Anti-Thermal Screen Ref II
It may not be the tankiest Orca out there, but if you get caught, you probably won't survive, regardless of your EHP being 129k or 248k. |
Paranoid Loyd
1672
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Posted - 2014.09.02 21:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vol Arm'OOO wrote: My guess is that in null it would be the MJD over the MWD because of bubbles.
Good point, I rephrase my recommendation to be that MWD is preferred in all space except Null.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Paranoid Loyd
1672
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Posted - 2014.09.02 21:04:00 -
[13] - Quote
Summer Isle wrote:[ Vol Arm'OOO wrote:The down sides of an orca are that it is very slow You can stick a Prototype 100mn MWD on an Orca to achieve a 10-second align. You need a Reactor Control Unit I to do it, though, so you end up with almost no PG for tank, but you can at least get a quick align.
This is true but you are ignoring the time in warp. Both can be fit for 10-second aligning but the DST will still get there way faster.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Baneken
Arctic Light Inc. Arctic Light
318
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Posted - 2014.09.03 07:56:00 -
[14] - Quote
Biggest bonus for a DST is however that unlike with a ship maintenance bay, you CAN stuff your ship in cargo bay full of something else then "charges" which annoys me to no end with carrier for example. |
Esmeraelda Jade
Element Underground Lawful Rebellion
2
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Posted - 2014.09.03 17:45:00 -
[15] - Quote
Baneken wrote:Biggest bonus for a DST is however that unlike with a ship maintenance bay, you CAN stuff your ship in cargo bay full of something else then "charges" which annoys me to no end with carrier for example.
Disregard
Wait... Maybe I need to work on my literacy skills. I misread that... |
Mara Pahrdi
The Order of Anoyia
815
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Posted - 2014.09.03 23:06:00 -
[16] - Quote
It's either a DST or a freighter. My hauling Orcas sit in the hangar most of the time. Wouldn't train the Orca again on a new hauler character. Remove insurance. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
288
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Posted - 2014.09.04 02:38:00 -
[17] - Quote
Mara Pahrdi wrote:It's either a DST or a freighter. My hauling Orcas sit in the hangar most of the time. Wouldn't train the Orca again on a new hauler character.
The orca is my single most favorite ship in the game. Its like a giant swiss army knife. Keep everything I need in it and have it follow me around. Then depending on whatever shenanigans I get into, I can swap into the correct ship for the situation. If you pvp its well worth training on at least one of your alts. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4105
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
Only thing I dislike about new DST: can't scoop into hangar. |
Marc Callan
Nuclear Manhattan Limited
462
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Posted - 2014.09.04 13:10:00 -
[19] - Quote
The thing about the Orca is that not only is it able to fulfill multiple roles, it's been able to carry out those roles better than any other ship in EVE (or carry them out in ways that no other ship can match). Of course, it's an industrial booster/flagship without peer, but aside from its design role, it's the only ship that can transport assembled ships without needing a jump drive, it was until recently the only ship short of a dedicated freighter that could carry a flat-packed battleship in cargo, and it was until recently the only ship whose cargo capacity was anywhere in the range between 30K and 500K cubic meters, which is a pretty large gap. (Well, okay, jump freighters fit into that gap, but they're so damned expensive that they hardly count.) "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt |
Shiloh Templeton
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
162
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Posted - 2014.09.06 03:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
I keep wanting to use a DST but I can't find a way to make it better than an Orca, freighter, or Blockade Runner in EFT. I'm guessing it shines when transporting in low-sec. |
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Paranoid Loyd
1883
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Posted - 2014.09.06 16:54:00 -
[21] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:I keep wanting to use a DST but I can't find a way to make it better than an Orca, freighter, or Blockade Runner in EFT. I'm guessing it shines when transporting in low-sec.
BTW, I love Orca's set up for MWD warp trick for being a space vagabond.
As previously mentioned, warp speed is faster, DST may only save a few seconds per jump but depending on how many jumps you are doing it adds up pretty quick.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1508
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Posted - 2014.09.16 14:08:00 -
[22] - Quote
Tau Cabalander wrote:Only thing I dislike about new DST: can't scoop into hangar. Nor anchor from it. You'd have to work through your regular hold which has issues with large POS mods and is too small to contain a customs office gantry. I still use a BR or T1 hauler in conjunction for POS work. |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.09.17 01:38:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jestor's Testor wrote: It seems that the Orca is to be better at just about everything over other haulers. Especially raw space. Is there any major advantage the DST has over it?
It is quote the opposite. The DST is better in almost every way
DST is: - Faster sub-warp - Faster in warp - More EHP when fit properly - Cheaper - Impossible to bump endlessly - +2 native warp-core strength
The Orca is only better at one thing: Cargo, and barely so unless hauling ores or built ships. |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
86
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Posted - 2014.09.17 01:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
Shiloh Templeton wrote:I keep wanting to use a DST but I can't find a way to make it better than an Orca, freighter, or Blockade Runner in EFT. I'm guessing it shines when transporting in low-sec.
BTW, I love Orca's set up for MWD warp trick for being a space vagabond. Heh, it's quite bad in low-sec. Makes great bait though. BR for low.
The Orca is great in highsec, but if you mess up the MWD warp trick, you can be bumped and then ganked.
The DST can fit 1,000,000 EHP, and with an overheated MWD pushes 1,000 m/s with links. Impossible to bump and pretty much impossible to gank if setup right. |
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