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Author	Topic
Tobk	Posted - 2006.07.28 14:47:00 - [1] Okay, so I was thinking about training up to be able to fly a Manticore (or some "Stealth bomber"). My first question is, are these worth it? Second, if so, what other skills should I be training (weapon skills, electronic warfare, etc). third, how does stealth work (is it a little icon you press to activate stealth, and you're invisable?) and fourth, what's the best stealth bomber (race wise)? Thanks :D
Tobk	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:14:00 - [2] Anyone have experience with these kind of ships..?
Reithan Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:22:00 - [3] Friend on mine is working on these skills currently..only ever seen one or two in game...but I'm kinda new (as my sig attests to). Our thoughts were (For an Amarr SB): Highs: 1x Cloak (Obviously) 2x Cruise missile 1x Nos 1x Smartbomb (to deal with drones) Mids: 2x ECM Jammer (Racial...since you can basically pick your targets) Webber+Scrambler - since it'll be used for PvP The rest is still pretty much up in the air, maybe a target painter for smaller targets, too? Basically, use the cloaked speed bonus to slide up to a juicy target, web+nos+jam, blast away, use SB if drones appear.
Tachy	Posted - 2006.07.28 15:38:00 - [4] Nos and smartbombs are absolutely useless on stealth bombers. You don't want to stick around to be shot at. They're slow big targets without any staying power. You need a lot of skills (combat, tactics, navigation, fitting knowledge) to make a bomber worth your time. You want to fit the best cloak you can fit. That's not the covered ops one, because you can't fit it. Good cloaks cost 30mio+ ... cheap cloaks are not worth the slot because they basically stop your engines. As soon as someone targets you, you can only warp out. Cloaking doesn't work when you're targeted. Packs of bombers are nasty. P.S.: Could someone please go and fix the forum system? --==*-- Even with nougat, you can have a perfect moment.
Entropist Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:05:00 - [5] I just purchased a Purifier the other day and this is the setup I'm going to use on it: Hi: 2x Cruise Missile Launchers, Prototype cloaking device Med: Sensor Booster, 2x Sensor Damp Lo: BCU, 2x Nano The idea behind this setup is to warp in/decloak at your maximum missile range, fire off a volley or two, and when the enemy notices/targets you, warp off before you get hit. The stealth bombers all tank like a wet paper bag and they're excruciatingly slow. Get in, shoot, get out. I disagree that you need a better cloaking device. The cheapest one seems the most logical since with decent covert ops skills you won't go that slow and its not like you really need to move while cloaked anyway since you won't be using this ship as a recon vessel. Manticore proably does the most damage out of all the bombers because it gets a nice damage bonus plus its the only one that can fit 3 launchers.
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.07.28 16:53:00 - [6] Well, it has a niche, but you have to use it in that niche or you'll get ripped apart. Buddy of mine has a mantie, he asked me if he could test it. I agreed, I was in my punisher at the time. I figured "Cruise missiles, I'm in a frig, big whoop." And I was right. He warped in at 80km, and fired as soon as he could. All the way I just casually repped myself now and then, cruises have horrible explosion radii. I only move at 622 m/s with my T2 AB (only T2 piece of equipment I had, and I was toting a 200 plate) I got within range of my weapons (80km---------->4km) and promptly shot him halfway through armor. He forgot to cloak before I locked him. I could've found him anyway as I was faster and he didn't know many tricks. So unless you fight very smart and have good skills/equipment, you're going to get whacked fast. And that's expensive.
Reithan Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:42:00 - [7] Originally by: Dahak2150 He forgot to cloak before I locked him. I could've found him anyway as I was faster and he didn't know many tricks. How do you "find" someone once they're cloaked?? O.o Also, the idea of the NOS was simply to be able to run the other mods longer. I suppose the only way to test our theoretical setup would be....to test it. , imagine that. :P
Eliadur Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.28 18:49:00 - [8] Edited by: Eliadur on 28/07/2006 18:54:17 Edited by: Eliadur on 28/07/2006 18:51:23 If he wasnt dealing decent dmg against your AF with cruise, then he must have bad missle skilsl. Bombers get an explosion radious bonus that lets them deal almost full dmg against frigates (its a "secret" bonus). Also for the non missle slots, I find that two nos "If" you can fit it can potentialy work well. At the very least it will let you take on certain Af's and frigates you would otherwise fail against. P.S. During that test he wasnt using EM against your armour was he? (or is that your lowest resist) Cause despite the atractive bonus, using the right missle typw will still get you more dmg. -Eli ---------- I think therefore I am.
Entropist Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:08:00 - [9] Nos would be completely useless and a waste of fitting on a stealth bomber. If anyone gets close enough for you to use 'em on you're basically dead anyway. Better to use sensor damps like I suggested and cloak -> warp out before they can target you.
Locke Ateid Minmatar	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:14:00 - [10] Originally by: Eliadur Edited by: Eliadur on 28/07/2006 18:54:17 Edited by: Eliadur on 28/07/2006 18:51:23 If he wasnt dealing decent dmg against your AF with cruise, then he must have bad missle skilsl. For the record, a Punisher is a standard tech 1 frigate, not a tech 2 Assault Frigate.

Yaman	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:33:00 - [11] I forget now lol but I do have a fully fitted minmatar stealth bomber..the hound. no - no nos, no tank, etc. It is designed to do two things if this helps any of you. 1. Stay FAR THE F AWAY 2. BE FAST other than that it tries to survive for as many hits as possible so it has plates and damage control in the mix. Why Minmatar? It is the FASTEST, smallest, AND most resisted stealth bomber. Again I forget the setup sadly, but it is fit and ready to go as soon as I go and find the ship I can tell everyone what the setup is. I THINK: hi --- 2x cruise launchers med ---- 1x 1mn afterburner tech2 1x sensor booster tech2 maybe if it fit 1x no clue maybe another sensor booster? i forget low ---- 1x plates 200mm 400mm ? i forget the size, nice though actually, it surprised me what fit and what it gave (rolled tungsten of course) 1x damage control 1x again a blank i forget, maybe nanofibre, maybe ballistic control... maybe capacitor.. whatever fits and helps you out -- What this now does is gives your Hound a decent amount of armor and resists AND speed. This should help it survive the hit or two you may suffer before warping out. The goal is long range sneak attacks. The thing about stealth bombers.... - You need to be in a group of them, or you can just be added firepower, dont expect to get anyone on your own. - They are super fragile, range is your best bet so stay out of the way of things, combined with speed to dodge turret fire. BUT this is also a bad thing as it takes forever for your missles to hit the target so small ones can warp away if they aren't caught off guard. - and that. "off-guard" is the entire point of a stealth bomber. It is not a guarantee - it is simply a shot in the dark. You may get lucky. BUT if you're cautious enough you certainly can get some nice hits in for added damage and be pretty safe. Top 10 things you should NOT do in a stealth bomber: 1. Get webbed/scrambled. 2. Get close (or #1 may happen) 3. Fly on your own (you'll waste your time) 4. Stand still 5. Try to tank 6. Stick around for Ravens 7. Fight inty's 8. Get near any kinda drone 9. Fight npcs (expect maybe small ones) and #10 - Think you're gonna own everyone with one. Yea.. that kinda sums it up. Fun ship to mess around with and can maybe be used as a scout ship, but remember you can't warp while cloaked so expect to do a lot of sitting and waiting. I do and always have had a feeling that in a good size group - a fleet of stealth bombers could really kick ass or gank a lone ship but is all that manpower worth it?? I hope this helps lead someone in the right direction....
Amasera Sacred Dark	Posted - 2006.07.28 19:49:00 - [12] Keys to flying a stealth bomber: Passive targetter - if they don't see the blinking yellow box in their overview, often times they'll overlook you if they are busy elsewhere. also prevents their auto-lock feature from locking you down. Sensor Boosters - The faster you lock them, the faster you can fire, the faster you can recloak. Sensor Damp - Specially in a Manti where you can engage at longer ranges, you will keep them from locking you and screwing with your weekend. MAPC - you'll need at least one (even with almost maxed fitting skills) to make the most of your setup. BCU - get the best you can afford, an SB aint crap without it's alpha strike. Money - There is not one single cheap component of a stealth bomber, and a well fitted one should cost as much as a Tier 2 BS Smarts and Skill - You have to know the SB to fly the SB. get as much practice as you can get by jumping unsuspecting corpmates and friends before you ever even think about taking it into a situation where you could loose it. They are unforgiving at best. BUT - IMO they are most fun type of ship to fly. ------------------- Sacred Dark is now Recruiting!
Sever Aldaria Agony Unleashed	Posted - 2006.07.28 20:49:00 - [13] Originally by: Amasera Keys to flying a stealth bomber: Passive targetter - if they don't see the blinking yellow box in their overview, often times they'll overlook you if they are busy elsewhere. also prevents their auto-lock feature from locking you down. Honestly, I think a passive targetter is wasted on a SB. You won't flash yellow while targeting them but rather after you have them locked. If you have weapons cycled then you'll only flash yellow once before going red as your cruise missiles fire. I use 2 Sensor Boosters and 2 Sensor Damps on my manticore. As soon as you decloak, you want to target and fire asap as you said. Having 2 damps on them at range will make their targeting slow if not make them inable to target you due to their reduced range (skills help). They are fun though
Dahak2150	Posted - 2006.07.29 01:41:00 - [14] Reithan - If you get anything within 2km of a cloaked ship it decloaks. I've had quite a lot of success using a thorax MWD and using drones to artificially inflate my detection zone. Eliadur - Punisher's a T1 frig. Yes the bonus is 5% boost to armor resists, but I only had amarr frig IV at the time. Not great resists. I don't know what his skill was for explosion radii, but it sucked. Plus I was exceeding the missiles explosion velocity as well. And he was using kinetic, which is my second worst resist on armor. His skills aren't perfect, but it's a multi-million isk ship with an ever more expensive cloak, and it lost to a T1 frig when he had a huge amount of firing time on me. Yes he acted a bit dumb, and didn't follow some common sense rules, but still. You have to fight them smart or be prepared to pay for them all over again. Simple things would be....equip sensor damps, stay cloaked as much as possible, only uncloak to fire. Vary your course each time you recloak. Never stay on the same vector. They may get confused and follow your former heading, while you're headed 90 degrees in another direction, ready to fire another volley at them.
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.29 02:04:00 - [15] Edited by: Mr Peanut on 29/07/2006 02:06:41 Adding on to Dahak's post: Edited by: Mr Peanut on 29/07/2006 02:06:01 Originally by: Entropist I disagree that you need a better cloaking device. The cheapest one seems the most logical since with decent covert ops skills you won't go that slow and its not like you really need to move while cloaked anyway since you won't be using this ship as a recon vessel. Adding on to the poster above me's comment: Yes, you will be slow, even with covert ops V. Yes, you do need a better cloak, or it won't protect you for **** against unexpected encounters since any MWD inty/cruiser will ram you out of cloak. It is clear that you don't know what "ramming out of cloak" is, so allow me to explain. When you get withing 2k of something while cloaked, your cloak will automatically deactivate. Since you can't warp while cloaked, the instant you finish warp or when you come out of a jump's cloak will reveal your position to the enemy. A smart enemy will then rush towards you at atleast 3k/s in an attempt to get within that 2k of you and procede to rip you a new one. No, it won't matter if you're warping in at 100k, but it will make all the difference when you unexpectedly find an enemy at closer ranges, such as jumping into a gate camp (especially when you don't have an AB or MWD to perform the one-cycle cloaked trick). Trust me on this one because it has happened to me. T1 cloak sucks.
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.29 02:16:00 - [16] Originally by: Yaman I forget now lol but I do have a fully fitted minmatar stealth bomber..the hound. no - no nos, no tank, etc. It is designed to do two things if this helps any of you. 1. Stay FAR THE F AWAY 2. BE FAST other than that it tries to survive for as many hits as possible so it has plates and damage control in the mix. Why Minmatar? It is the FASTEST, smallest, AND most resisted stealth bomber. Again I forget the setup sadly, but it is fit and ready to go as soon as I go and find the ship I can tell everyone what the setup is. I THINK: hi --- 2x cruise launchers med ---- 1x 1mn afterburner tech2 1x sensor booster tech2 maybe if it fit 1x no clue maybe another sensor booster? i forget low ---- 1x plates 200mm 400mm ? i forget the size, nice though actually, it surprised me what fit and what it gave (rolled tungsten of course) 1x damage control 1x again a blank i forget, maybe nanofibre, maybe ballistic control... maybe capacitor.. whatever fits and helps you out -- What this now does is gives your Hound a decent amount of armor and resists AND speed. This should help it survive the hit or two you may suffer before warping out. The goal is long range sneak attacks. The thing about stealth bombers.... - You need to be in a group of them, or you can just be added firepower, dont expect to get anyone on your own. - They are super fragile, range is your best bet so stay out of the way of things, combined with speed to dodge turret fire. BUT this is also a bad thing as it takes forever for your missles to hit the target so small ones can warp away if they aren't caught off guard. - and that. "off-guard" is the entire point of a stealth bomber. It is not a guarantee - it is simply a shot in the dark. You may get lucky. BUT if you're cautious enough you certainly can get some nice hits in for added damage and be pretty safe. Top 10 things you should NOT do in a stealth bomber: 1. Get webbed/scrambled. 2. Get close (or #1 may happen) 3. Fly on your own (you'll waste your time) 4. Stand still 5. Try to tank 6. Stick around for Ravens 7. Fight inty's 8. Get near any kinda drone 9. Fight npcs (expect maybe small ones) and #10 - Think you're gonna own everyone with one. Yea.. that kinda sums it up. Fun ship to mess around with and can maybe be used as a scout ship, but remember you can't warp while cloaked so expect to do a lot of sitting and waiting. I do and always have had a feeling that in a good size group - a fleet of stealth bombers could really kick ass or gank a lone ship but is all that manpower worth it?? I hope this helps lead someone in the right direction.... Good post. Saved me a lot of typing. Btw here is my purifier setup: Hi- 2x T1 (T2 if it fits) Cruise Launchers 1x Cloak II Med- 1x T1 MWD (T2 if it fits) 1x Sensor Damp II 1x Sensor Boost T1 (T2 if it fits) Lo- 1x T1 BCU (T2 if it fits) 1x APC 1x CPU II Notice that there are a lot of "T2 if it fits"-type things. This is because not all of these modules (or even most of them) can be T2 and still fit. Please don't fret at the MWD's cap penalty's effect on warp range, as the purifier compensates for this with it's superior cap in comparison to other bombers. Because you can have one cycle of MWD on while cloaked if you activate the MWD first, you will almost never be rammed out of cloak with this setup. As Yaman said, DON'T EVER FIGHT AT CLOSE RANGE OR SOLO WITH A BOMBER. I SUGGEST 100K+. If you do so, you would be lucky to kill a T1 frig.
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.29 02:19:00 - [17] Originally by: Entropist Nos would be completely useless and a waste of fitting on a stealth bomber. If anyone gets close enough for you to use 'em on you're basically dead anyway. Better to use sensor damps like I suggested and cloak -> warp out before they can target you. You can't warp while cloaked unless you fit a Covert Ops Cloaking Device II, which a bomber can't.
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.29 02:22:00 - [18] Originally by: Reithan Friend on mine is working on these skills currently..only ever seen one or two in game...but I'm kinda new (as my sig attests to). Our thoughts were (For an Amarr SB): Highs: 1x Cloak (Obviously) 2x Cruise missile 1x Nos 1x Smartbomb (to deal with drones) Mids: 2x ECM Jammer (Racial...since you can basically pick your targets) Webber+Scrambler - since it'll be used for PvP The rest is still pretty much up in the air, maybe a target painter for smaller targets, too? Basically, use the cloaked speed bonus to slide up to a juicy target, web+nos+jam, blast away, use SB if drones appear. I think we've all commented on the Nos+SB, but just to add some useful info, it only has 3 mids, not 4, and there is no way you could fit that setup or keep your cap up with it. Cruises take up a ton of PG, even with the bonus.
Justin Cody Caldari	Posted - 2006.07.29 02:30:00 - [19] well in my manticore it takes oh...2 vollies to kill a ceptor which will be sensor damped for most of his journey to me. I have used the amarr stealth bomber and it hits darn hard too...might take 3 vollies which isn't too shabby. Most t1 frigates will die after a single volly...there was this one time...in my manti..I took out 4 t1 frigs in a matter of seconds from about 30KM. So some of it is about your approach to the battle and someof it is about skill. Make sure you get the former right along with the latter. Remind people that profit is the difference between revenue and expense. This makes you look smart. Scott Adams
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.29 02:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Tachy Nos and smartbombs are absolutely useless on stealth bombers. Very true. Originally by: Tachy You don't want to stick around to be shot at. They're slow big targets without any staying power. Also true. Originally by: Tachy You need a lot of skills (combat, tactics, navigation, fitting knowledge) to make a bomber worth your time. To elaborate: -Long Distance Jamming - Sensor damp range -Missile Bombardment - Missile range -Missile Projection - Missile range -Signal Supression - Sensor damp effectiveness -Warp Drive Operation - BS warp speed and little cap for warping -As many of the missile skills as you see fit, most notably Missile Launcher Operation V for Cruise Missiles -Electronics V for cloak and fitting -Cloaking - Duh! -Frequency Modulation - More sensor damp range (optional depending on your Long Distance Jamming level) -Long Range Targeting - Targeting range -Engineering V for fitting Originally by: Tachy You want to fit the best cloak you can fit. That's not the covered ops one, because you can't fit it. Good cloaks cost 30mio+ ... cheap cloaks are not worth the slot because they basically stop your engines. Correct. See my first post or the one before it for more info. Originally by: Tachy As soon as someone targets you, you can only warp out. Cloaking doesn't work when you're targeted... Sensor damp II at 100+K will break almost any lock. Only an ECM ship will have you, in which case only a sniper could hit you while you warped out, and, in general, bombers should avoid snipers anyway. This concludes my long line of posts on this thread for now. I hope I helped out.

Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.07.29 02:37:00 - [21] Originally by: Justin Cody well in my manticore it takes oh...2 vollies to kill a ceptor which will be sensor damped for most of his journey to me. I have used the amarr stealth bomber and it hits darn hard too...might take 3 vollies which isn't too shabby. Most t1 frigates will die after a single volly...there was this one time...in my manti..I took out 4 t1 frigs in a matter of seconds from about 30KM. So some of it is about your approach to the battle and someof it is about skill. Make sure you get the former right along with the latter. P.S. - Another good post. Ceptors won't be able to do **** to you, but since you can't scramble at the range you should be fighting, they will warp away anyway (although I've almost gotten a few who were reluctant to do so). Again with the don't solo in bombers agaisnt anything but T1 frigs thing.
Taurgil Balanced Unity	Posted - 2006.07.29 10:41:00 - [22] Edited by: Taurgil on 29/07/2006 10:41:28 The problem is, that there is absolutely no reason not to fly a manticore, the extra skill time for cla frig V is paying off n-times. Hopefully this gets fixed and all SB receive a 3rd launcher.
Tobk	Posted - 2006.07.29 13:58:00 - [23] So what would be worth my time (as a somewhat newer pilot): Manticore (Stealth Bomber) Buzzard (Covert Ops, Steath Recon (?)) Crow Raptor Any of those?
Tobk	Posted - 2006.07.29 20:54:00 - [24] Anyone at all?
Ghen	Posted - 2006.07.29 21:30:00 - [25] Originally by: Tobk So what would be worth my time (as a somewhat newer pilot): Manticore (Stealth Bomber) Buzzard (Covert Ops, Steath Recon (?)) Crow Raptor Any of those? Depends what you like doing really, here's a quick introduction that may or may not be all that accurate Manticore: Lots of sitting around cloaked, waiting for targets and hoping they have no instas, can be fun but dies quickly if under fire. Buzzard: More gang oriented but you won't be firing any weapons. It's mostly scouting, probing down ships, providing warp-in points against hostiles, don't let anyone see you uncloaked. Crow(/raptor): Tackler, usually seen mwd'ing towards a target (hopefully at an angle as not to get shot down), lots of shooty-shooty at things.
busta fatone	Posted - 2006.08.06 18:43:00 - [26] i own and fly a manticore (caldari bomber) so i thought id add a few comments, (sorry if i recover anyones previous) 3x cruise launcher 1ximproved or dread guristas cloak (the t1 is useless on a bomber, and the cov-ops doesnt work) 1xt2 sensor booster 2x best sensor dampner you can buy (the phased nuon works nicely, and is better for fitting) 1x small named cap battery 1xauxiliary power core (again named is best here) either 1xco-processor (if you need it to fit) or a ballistic control (t2 if poss) i have to agree with the previous posts on the nos/smartie, no point if your close enough to use em, and they have a lock, your dead already i do have a suggestion, although it only works in bomber packs or pairs, use the last high slot for an offline remote repper, so you can patch up the inevitable dents you get whilst learning to use it. also, a lot of people mentioned using the bomber at long range (100 km plus) this can work but only in 2 cases, case 1, its a big ship (bc , bs, ect) and your in a gang with a tackler who has him locked down, otherwise any pilot with ANY sense at all would warp out long before the missiles hit, or at least before more than one volley do. case 2, its a frigate/ceptor/shuttle, who thinks he is outta range and sits and watches the missiles come in. your best bet is to be around 35km from your target, pop up, dampen him and shoot and then cloak AS SOON AS YOU HAVE FIRED. this doesnt work at longer range as your missiles will lose the target and fly aimless past him, but, inside 35 km (seems dependant on skills, but if you havent got decent to high missile skills anyways, bomber aint your ship) it does work, and he will never get a lock if you do this correctly. of course, he could warp, but to be honest usually they think they can take the first volley, and by the time they try to turn round, you can have fired the second (and usually killing) blow
Seraphim Io	Posted - 2006.08.07 03:36:00 - [27] Edited by: Seraphim Io on 07/08/2006 03:36:17 manty setup 3 x cruise launcher 2's 1 x prototype cloak 2 x f-90 sensor boosters 2 x phased muon sensor dampners 1 x micro auxilary power core 1 Ballistic control unit II this is a good setup as it has both fastlock and dampening, as well the ability to fit 3 tech 2 launchers and a tech 2 bcu. With the t2 launchers and using percision cruise you will pwn any inty that gets near you and with the dual sensor dampners it will take 6 seconds with a fast lock inty to lock you which would be in the ballpark range of 6-10 km. This will be more than enough time to get the second volley if needed.
Lucius Ventrue	Posted - 2006.08.07 17:48:00 - [28] Which skill lets you equip all 3 launchers for the Manticore? Friend just got his, only can fit 2 of the launchers, running into power issues (Engineering IV)
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.07 18:01:00 - [29] Originally by: Lucius Ventrue Which skill lets you equip all 3 launchers for the Manticore? Friend just got his, only can fit 2 of the launchers, running into power issues (Engineering IV) A manti is not a good choice for newbies IMO. You will need engineering V and an APC in a low slot to make it worth anything. This goes for most bombers (I guess you could fit a Purifier without an APC but there wouldn't be much point to fitting one w/o an AB/MWD as that's the ship's advantage).
Mr Peanut The New Empire R i s e	Posted - 2006.08.07 18:08:00 - [30] Edited by: Mr Peanut on 07/08/2006 18:08:57 Originally by: Taurgil Edited by: Taurgil on 29/07/2006 10:41:28 The problem is, that there is absolutely no reason not to fly a manticore, the extra skill time for cla frig V is paying off n-times. Hopefully this gets fixed and all SB receive a 3rd launcher. Purifier can fit a MWD to insure survivability and quick positioning and has the biggest cap for warping (this is evened out if you fit a MWD). Does anyone know if Nemesis can fit (3x Sensor Damps 1x Sensor Booster) or (2x Sensor Damps 1x Passive Targeter 1x Sensor Booster) or (2x Sensor Boosters 1x Sensor Damp 1x Passive Targeter)? Because that would give it a niche. Hound is the most well-rounded of the bombers for a multi-purpose-type setup and manti (obviously) does the most damage so it is the most popular. They are fine IMO.

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