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Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc.
11
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Posted - 2014.09.19 02:58:00 -
[31] - Quote
To be honest its got to the point where ISN are needing to use ISboxer to get up HQ fleets anyone that has flown with/against them regularly recently knows this.
Let's all remember for a second we are talking communitys of "elite red cross shooters in highsec" people who fight the boredom of flying the same 3 sites for hours over and over, is it really a surprise there is drama/meta/spais here?
Every player that is forced to go explore other isk generating options ie null/wh/low means more fun for everybody, to those that quit? Goodbye, maybe try a theme park mmo as you are clearly not fully exploring the sandbox.
I do feel sorry for the people who have to wait up to 3 hours to get into the TVP fleet if you are a TVP regular I can only say we try to get 2nd fleets up as much as possible.
To the spurgers who threaten Nados and Decs I say Come at me.
Finally for a small donation of 20bil to the HK wallet I will stop popping moms.
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Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
167
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Posted - 2014.09.19 03:22:00 -
[32] - Quote
Awentia wrote:Hi i am a long time player and i am not a rocket scientist, but i am wondering why the incursion system seams broken. I mean why are they so easily destroyed why would you spawn the mother ships so that a new incursion site goes down in 1 hour or less it seams like. and then we have to wait for the next re-spawn. i would think to kill the escalation it should have to be up for a static amount of time before the mother ships spawns and makes the incursion collapsible. You have people trying to enjoy this game doing incursions yet you allow them to just be insta popped by a bunch of "griefers" yes i say griefers because they really are getting nothing out of popping the sites except stopping others from being able to enjoy the game in the manner they wish. I think this was a very bad game mechanic design. this is just a personal observation.
Apparently you dont know that the goal is to pop the mom. They do get stuff and isk from doing it.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursion_sites#Mothership_sites
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Loot Fairy
Incursion Asset Distribution Corp
0
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Posted - 2014.09.19 03:49:00 -
[33] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:To be honest its got to the point where ISN are needing to use ISboxer to get up HQ fleets anyone that has flown with/against them regularly recently knows this.
Let's all remember for a second we are talking communitys of "elite red cross shooters in highsec" people who fight the boredom of flying the same 3 sites for hours over and over, is it really a surprise there is drama/meta/spais here?
Every player that is forced to go explore other isk generating options ie null/wh/low means more fun for everybody, to those that quit? Goodbye, maybe try a theme park mmo as you are clearly not fully exploring the sandbox.
I do feel sorry for the people who have to wait up to 3 hours to get into the TVP fleet if you are a TVP regular I can only say we try to get 2nd fleets up as much as possible.
To the spurgers who threaten Nados and Decs I say Come at me.
Finally for a small donation of 20bil to the HK wallet I will stop popping moms.
Only splurgelord I see is TVP atm.
Check out Big Rey's post above yours. They aren't multiboxing. Nice try though!
I did love the 7b bribe TVP tried to send WTM. And the banning of one of WTM's diplo/officers for trying to correct Skyrider after Skyrider claimed WTM supported TVP. And the part where in the TS meeting after someone claimed TDF supported TVP the TDF officer came out and corrected the member. Same with the Helix guy.
Not to mention that TDF, RAISA, and DIN tried this before and it didn't work, and that during the meeting when someone asked TVP what the difference was between then, when TVP was one of the loudest voices opposing the poppings, and now, not a single TVP FC or Officer could give a legitimate reason why what TVP is doing now is any different than what happened 6 months ago. |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2014.09.19 09:29:00 -
[34] - Quote
Well DIN did it to stop the contesting against them. I am not 100% sure about RAISA, while some claimed for a similar reason, I am not familiar enough with RAISA to answer that question or really know somebody that can give a correct answer on that without relaying on 3. hand information. As for TDF it was to bring people of the HQ community back together to talk about it, it was during the time DIN did it. At least that was what I am told back then in TDF as FC, however given the general poor reasoning I had my doubts.
Overall from my personal experience it will have a negative effect on the channel that does it(it did on DIN, even more so on TDF, I know the 2. case particular well) and I doubt that the goal of getting ISN out of the HQ system permanently will be successful since ISN and Noble are not likely to give in and some in ISN even enjoying the situation to a certain amount.
I also doubt that anybody would wait 3h in the wait list just to fly with TVP, given that last time I checked it takes like 15-30 minutes to find a fleet with a shield hull(lots of channels and lots of fleets around), you can be nearly instantly on grid in armor at least after DT till the end of EU TZ when IIC pub, OIC as well as most TDF FCs run. |
Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc.
12
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Posted - 2014.09.19 09:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Jill Antaris wrote:
I also doubt that anybody would wait 3h in the wait list just to fly with TVP, given that last time I checked it takes like 15-30 minutes to find a fleet with a shield hull(lots of channels and lots of fleets around), you can be nearly instantly on grid in armor at least after DT till the end of EU TZ when IIC pub, OIC as well as most TDF FCs run.
I was shocked too but the post dt tz sometimes has 40 or more in wl 3 hour waits are the worst they get but I have invited many people who have waited 2+ hours and several over 3 next time it happens I will ss it.
Ask BigRey again about Jeb Isboxing super tanked non primary fit nm's to get the fleet up, not the first time and not the last ISN's shrinking community was only able to get a fleet up because of ISBox
Oh and to the wtm mom loot thing?
Yea the FC at the time felt a bit bad we were popping all the moms and were like yea here have some **** for free, WTM then came back with some bs chatlog about bribery and yet they still took the loot even though they told us to f off? We won't be feeling bad for them again although I personally have been avoiding contesting them if there are other sites available generally.
Anyway seriously don't x up for my fleets, I am the most toxic terrible fc tvp has and have a staggering number of loses. |
Sentenced 1989
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
92
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Posted - 2014.09.19 10:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:Jill Antaris wrote:
I also doubt that anybody would wait 3h in the wait list just to fly with TVP, given that last time I checked it takes like 15-30 minutes to find a fleet with a shield hull(lots of channels and lots of fleets around), you can be nearly instantly on grid in armor at least after DT till the end of EU TZ when IIC pub, OIC as well as most TDF FCs run.
I was shocked too but the post dt tz sometimes has 40 or more in wl 3 hour waits are the worst they get but I have invited many people who have waited 2+ hours and several over 3 next time it happens I will ss it. Ask BigRey again about Jeb Isboxing super tanked non primary fit nm's to get the fleet up, not the first time and not the last ISN's shrinking community was only able to get a fleet up because of ISBox Oh and to the wtm mom loot thing? Yea the FC at the time felt a bit bad we were popping all the moms and were like yea here have some **** for free, WTM then came back with some bs chatlog about bribery and yet they still took the loot even though they told us to f off? We won't be feeling bad for them again although I personally have been avoiding contesting them if there are other sites available generally. Anyway seriously don't x up for my fleets, I am the most toxic terrible fc tvp has and have a staggering number of loses.
Most fleets out there use boxers to get running, including my VG channel, but every time I've been in ISN HQ fleet after work time in Europe, there hasn't been a single boxer (this was during July when TIG was on break, but I'm certain that policy is still the same since it was the same last summer in July as well). ISN's policy is that boxer dock up as soon as there is real person to replace it and it's only use to kick start fleet until +1 timezone finishes traveling home and eating. So your argument is invalid.
TVP has luxury of people standing up for 2-3 hours wait list and it has worked for certain degree for you, even though lately with you popping mom after people wait for that long is causing several pilots to leave and not look back. WTM and other smaller communities are seeing increased number of new pilots, which is great for us, bad for you.
TVP's MOM popping policy will have greater devastating effect on TVP then it will on ISN. You are forgetting ISN has smaller player base which is more closely tied together then TVP's player base whose loyalties lay elsewhere and not to any incursion community. And your argument that you will keep doing this as long as you have people xing up in your channel, really? And what when xing stops, when all the people you had leave for other communities? Use loot and SRP to bribe them back, or will you resort to full time boxing for several months till you build numbers back up?
And anyways, seriously, your latest comments and trolling give a hint that you are enjoying collateral effect of "ISN policy" a bit to much.
All in all, you are free to grief and run what ever policy you want within game, but scheming, plotting and trolling whilst trying to hold moral high ground is wrong and I will speak up against it. Not to mention, that other then DIN not a single other community is approving your actions. If I made a mistake, quote me and I will stand corrected.
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Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc.
12
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Posted - 2014.09.19 10:17:00 -
[37] - Quote
I do not care what any other community thinks why would I? |
Morpheus Blues
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.09.19 10:29:00 -
[38] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:I do not care what any other community thinks why would I?
Paladins, Go home
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Goldiiee
Bureau of Astronomical Anomalies
1184
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Posted - 2014.09.19 10:33:00 -
[39] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:I do not care what any other community thinks why would I? Such an enlightened leader, what are you 14?
Near as I can tell one group is trying to dismantle another group with a short sighted and ill conceived plan; it was not a well thought out plan, it is not having the intended effect and you want everyone in to think everything is going as planed.
Denying a small group of billionaires the ability to run sites at the expense of a large group of wait-list bored and angry members is and was a bad idea from it's inception. This continues for a few months and you will have alienated your entire member base with the exception of the FC's leaving you in a worse predicament than the loss of a few billion worth of modules. Is Noble a ****? yes he can be. Are your dickhead actions any better than his? not at all.
I know it's all a matter of saving face and not looking foolish at this point, but I think TVP might need to call it a win while they still have members willing to back them up.
Just an opinion from a old player that has seen this play out way to many damn times.
Things that keep me up at night;-á Why do we use a voice communication device to send telegraphs? Moore's Law should state,-áOnce you have paid off the last PC upgrade you will need another. |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2014.09.19 10:41:00 -
[40] - Quote
Well it is in general not a good idea to alienating a channel and members towards each other. The situation in armor Incursion is actually a very sad but real example what the results of such actions that only resulted in divided player pools, less fleets, overall less choice for pilots, banning for participating in other armor channels like TDF enforces it and a lot FCs struggling with player count on grid, while others sit in wait list or wait for a TDF FC, since they don't want to get banned from TDF as well as all kind of bad feelings it creates for people flying on different sides now.
After all, what DIN did didn't produce any kind of positive result for them in the long run, it didn't for TDF, I doubt it did for RAISA and I don't believe it will for TVP. |
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Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc.
12
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Posted - 2014.09.19 10:53:00 -
[41] - Quote
I am not leadership, I prefer not to play evemail online.
Petty insults? Please come up with something that at least makes me laugh, some of your members join our teamspeak and make funnies :)
The only people I feel sorry for are the I have to apologise to for the massive wl's for my fleets.
The way I see it either TVP will die or ISN will die.
One community has been fairly chill for years, the other has pissed off pretty much every other community.
My community is the one that doesn't need to rely on the crutch that is ISBoxers. Eventually all but a small group of core players will grow tired of all the jumps for a few sites and give up or ISN will just turn into DIN and ISBOX all the things.
My offer still stands though 20bil to HK wallet and I stop popping moms. Not really much for a community of billionaires. |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 11:57:00 -
[42] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:The way I see it either TVP will die or ISN will die.
That is a fairly unlikely outcome, since at some point both channels will struggle gathering enough people for a HQ fleet, what in turn would keep the Inc open, if TVP stays true to her internal goal. Given that many people of other channels advise to not participate in ISN or TVP, for the time being till the situation is resolved, to reach this point rather sooner than later it will happen eventually. Plus people get bored with moving BS all day long across empire for nothing, it was probably the biggest problem back in TDF last year with the MoM fleets. |
S'No Flake
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
41
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Posted - 2014.09.19 18:47:00 -
[43] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:My offer still stands though 20bil to HK wallet and I stop popping moms. Not really much for a community of billionaires.
Well, that will probably have to be 20bil for every TVP FC as i guess you are not the only one running incursions fleets in TVP and other FCs might not stop.
What i personally don't get is why isn't ISN popping the moms denying TVP the ISK they make before they pop the mom. |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2014.09.19 19:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
The time zone, only a few community manage to have enough FCs and members to cover all TZs, ISN is like most other Inc channels limited to EU TZ and I guess it is more effective to do HQ instead doing the Mom when they are quick with the formup, with the option to contest TVP in the Mom site.
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Loot Fairy
Incursion Asset Distribution Corp
2
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Posted - 2014.09.19 23:31:00 -
[45] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:I am not leadership, I prefer not to play evemail online.
Petty insults? Please come up with something that at least makes me laugh, some of your members join our teamspeak and make funnies :)
The only people I feel sorry for are the I have to apologise to for the massive wl's for my fleets.
The way I see it either TVP will die or ISN will die.
One community has been fairly chill for years, the other has pissed off pretty much every other community.
My community is the one that doesn't need to rely on the crutch that is ISBoxers. Eventually all but a small group of core players will grow tired of all the jumps for a few sites and give up or ISN will just turn into DIN and ISBOX all the things.
My offer still stands though 20bil to HK wallet and I stop popping moms. Not really much for a community of billionaires.
You're one to talk about petty insults, what with the constant trolling in your channel by you and your fellow FCs.
I've flown with HQs for about 2 years now with nearly every community out there, and I've had more problems with DIN, TDF, RAISA, and now TVP than I've ever had with ISN.
Your community relies on mutes and bans when people, even Diplos and Officers of other communities, try to correct your misguided FCs when you randomly declared Helix, TDF, and WTM supported you, which is laughable to say the least that you have to lie to people like that. |
Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc.
12
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Posted - 2014.09.20 05:41:00 -
[46] - Quote
Every community relys on mutes and bans.
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James Baboli
Ferrous Infernum
99
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Posted - 2014.09.20 07:07:00 -
[47] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:Every community rely on mutes and bans.
Unless you are leadership in those communities you can speculate all you like about who was/wasn't on board.
Don't think we ever claimed helix was though.
On a plus side incursions are up and fleets are running.
For how long we shall soon see.
Don't forget for the low low price of 20bil to the HK wallet I stop popping moms :)
Skyrider tried. I corrected him. Shortly after, I recieved a ban, for that and for saying that TVP's logi is too variable to run ISN style fits in reliably. That crazy bag FC with the silly things on the hull that shouldn't but just did. |
Blizzaro
Hard Knocks Inc.
12
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Posted - 2014.09.20 07:39:00 -
[48] - Quote
Skyrider is just a fresh t badge he is fairly clueless about the "lol politics" of incursions.
You were banned because reasons nothing to do with the logi comments. |
Dsparil Mal
N.F.H.P. Test Alliance Please Ignore
22
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:12:00 -
[49] - Quote
The inevitable outcome is the decimation of smaller communities but opportunity cost is going to factor into it as well. As another person stated, people are eventually going to get tired of moving from system to system. They're going to jump ship and find other ways to make money. Opportunity cost, in the economic sense, is an individual asking themself what their time is worth to them. A doctor or lawyer isn't going to work long hours for minimum wage anymore than incursion pilots are going to bounce from system to system over the course of several hours for just a measly pay of 100 million isk. Especially not when they can make more ratting in nullsec, doing relic sites, or playing the markets. The nice thing about eve is the sky is the limit on ways to make money. TVP are delusional if they think they're going to get anywhere with this. To be blunt, they're stupid.
I'm just going to sit back and laugh my ass off as this train wreck slowly unfolds.
Erotica 1 for CSM 9! |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2014.09.22 10:21:00 -
[50] - Quote
Blizzaro wrote:Every community rely on mutes and bans.
That is not true. The only ones I ever banned in OIC where some pizza alts and later pizza chars that tried to troll people in OIC(mostly because of her ganking, I can life with a bit of trolling). I even allow Major Leconfuzed not only on his Alt but also on his Main in my channel(he banned me twice from TDF) and he even tried to convince people in the OIC channel to come back to TDF(I found it quite amusing to watch, given that he banned most of them himself from there in the first place) because I think it is silly and most people in leadership position misuse the tool because they lack the communication skills to get her point across, what is rather sad in my opinion. |
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Sentenced 1989
Quantum Anomaly Corporation
93
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Posted - 2014.09.22 10:30:00 -
[51] - Quote
Jill Antaris wrote:Blizzaro wrote:Every community rely on mutes and bans. That is not true. The only ones I ever banned in OIC where some pizza alts and later pizza chars that tried to troll people in OIC(mostly because of her ganking, I can life with a bit of trolling). I even allow Major Leconfuzed not only on his Alt but also on his Main in my channel(he banned me twice from TDF) and he even tried to convince people in the OIC channel to come back to TDF(I found it quite amusing to watch, given that he banned most of them himself from TDF in the first place) because I think it is silly and most people in leadership position misuse the tool because they lack the communication skills to get her point across, what is rather sad in my opinion.
Haha, only twice? I think he banned me at least 5 times on 10 different toons :)
Aslo, in TIG we don't mute... We don't ban either, but then again out channel isn't running in open mode, but yea, we never muted anybody and we only kicked some randoms from server who found it on server list and randomly joined ts and blasted born in the usa over comms :D
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Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
99
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Posted - 2014.09.22 11:32:00 -
[52] - Quote
Sentenced 1989 wrote:Haha, only twice? I think he banned me at least 5 times on 10 different toons :)
I left the channel after he removed my FC tag for not participating in the mom kills last year(I actually not even flown for TDF during this time since I didn't like the idea itself, others put down her FC tags to) and since the mail also Included another well know FC name in armor Incrusions, it did feel like he specificity targeted IIC members(no surprise because the IIC stance was that we will not participating and he should to his nonsense without us), given that he never did think that a private mail or a chat about his reasons would be probably more reasonable instead of just sending a mail in the FC mailing list about FC changes I closed the TDF channel for good after like over 3 years being active as DPS, Logi, HQ LC and FC. About 2 months later he did ban me for being in the KOP armor channel(he did ban everybody in there without any reason given from TDF).
I later did hear form somebody that he started to ban people for participating in OIC fleets from TDF, with the reason that I would steal people from TDF so I did come on the TDF TS to try to resolve that(I didn't care on being banned myself, but about the new players that don't get into TDF fleets and basically get banned for trying to earn her first BS/Logi with what they could have xed up in TDF later to). I was unbanned for about a month and did a TS session with him and ESJammer I think, as well as quite a few mails regarding the subject. However all my arguments why I left TDF and that OIC handles stuff a lot different to TDF when it comes to new players, FCing standards, fleet setups and the ability to provide armor based Incursions in more than just one focus where completely ignored by him. The last thing I told him was that I will not consider participation myself in TDF if this ridiculous ban policy is acceptable in TDF and that every pilot in armor should have the right to decide where to fly, similar as it is for shield channels(plus pointing out that this is the main reason why so few fly armor in Incs and there is no shared player pool like for shield).
In the end he banned me again and also people that fly in OIC from TDF, even Xylem that came from TVP to us and never flown a single time in a armor fleet or TDF before and this was the last time I did hear from him(beside his spamming the TDF advertise in the Incursion Local whenever I do one for OIC or Sorion does one for IIC pub). |
Ludus Lucrius
WildCards 22nd
13
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Posted - 2014.09.22 15:17:00 -
[53] - Quote
TDF operates on "Act now, apoligize later" and "You're either with us, or against us" principles :) which both can be good and bad.
Both strategies "seemed" to work so far as they managed to have all armor pilots in one and only armor community that matters :), that's good thing, right ? :).
Well it would be good thing if they really managed to keep all armor pilots in their ranks, but it seems to me that quite a handfull of armor pilots over the years "deserted" either to shieldies or other activities in EvE.
Long live 1 and only armor community ! Wait that cake is a lie :) |
Jill Antaris
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
99
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 20:27:00 -
[54] - Quote
I am not a shield vs armor person, I flown both a lot, I FCed both a lot and the difference on high end hulls is 2 modules. A lot of the shield pilots that tried out armor in OIC where actually surprised that it is that similar, then again the OIC doctrine is not based around TDF fittings but mostly follows similar schemes as most modern shield fleets, in roles, FCing and general approach to the fleet setup while it tries to utilize the advantages of armor to and avoids overspecialisation(like relaying to 100% on Vindicators to do NCOs, having your Machs doing nothing after the cruisers are dead etc). I guess if I switch out a web for a Invu and a EANM for a TE on each hull and add one scimitar it would work to. Also I actually have a much better relationship with every single on of the shield channels than with TDF, what was hilarious at the time there where only TDF and OIC around for armor.
I don't think the way TDF operates is in any form or shape good. If you look at shield channels, they created a lot of variety, use mostly unified hull types what gives pilots next to no problem to find a fleet in on of the channels with her hull, small channels are very new player friendly, high end channels offer a lot of ISK/h if you meet the requirements and if you can't stand one, just go into the next one. The player base in shield channels isn't that much bigger because the fleets are much faster(outside of high end fleets), but because the pilots have a lot more options.
In armor you are stuck with TDF or banned from it for flying with other channels. If I would have the choice as a new player, I would see no reason why to do armor Incursions in this state when there are 20 shield channels that offer a lot more choice, are more new player friendly and have better high end options. I don't want TDF to collapse and I have a lot of respect for people like Diego(quite some of the OIC members miss your mwd fleets, including me, and actually would like to participate in them again if they where not banned) and lots of others that put a lot of effort and time into her fleets and I really would like to see some TDF people that can't get a spot in TDF just to switch over when we only run 5 dps. What I want is that people actually realize that having more FCs and options around is a good thing and one very important step towards making armor incursions more attractive in long run for everybody and all the banning done by Major helps nobody(not the pilots, not the TDF channel and not armor Incursions as a hole). |
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