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Gavin Dax
Repercussus RAZOR Alliance
78
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Posted - 2014.09.06 00:04:00 -
[61] - Quote
Leoric Firesword wrote:Jooo Audeles wrote:Just find this post:
forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=369930 The costs of PVP is too much for new players
In Serenity, this kind of question is "stupid", because everyone knows the standard answer is:"Sell a plex" if someone doubt, or don't wish to, they will say:"You are a loser, you even can't afford a plex" actually the standard answer was "fly cheaper ships" followed closely with "find better ways to make money" Reading comprehension, not just fancy words used in school.
In fairness he was referring to what the response would be from *Serenity* players.
OP does bring up a good point though. There is always potential for game degradation like this as long as some PvE can be done easily by bots. It doesn't matter if mining is low ISK/hr. That means little to a botter - it just means it's not viable for a real player.
IMO PvE should be engaging enough that 1) you can't use a bot and 2) you wouldn't want to use a bot anyway and 3) it creates good conflict/PvP instead of simply gank opportunities.
You can't make all PvE engaging but you can at least make it so that a bot can't do it. All PvE should have some type of CAPTCHA (note: CAPTCHA doesn't just mean one of those annoying things you see online, it just refers to any automated test which really just needs to be something a human does much better than a bot, doesn't need to be boring either - no reason why it can't be something fun or seamlessly integrated into the game). It may be that CCP doesn't care enough about it though - perhaps they stand to lose a lot in the short-term if they get rid of all the bots, I don't know. There's no denying that fewer bots is better in the long term though. |
Amyclas Amatin
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
320
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 00:40:00 -
[62] - Quote
The fears of this forum alt are so profound. Let us all heed his warnings before disaster strikes us. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6042
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Posted - 2014.09.06 01:05:00 -
[63] - Quote
Jooo Audeles wrote:forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=369930 The costs of PVP is too much for new players
Yeah, except it's not. The problem is people believe that more expensive stuff is always better. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
924
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 05:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Post with your main op. Also, how is pvp too expensive for noobs? fit a frig with a web and a point and you and some guns and you are pvp ready. |
Tassin en Lone
University of Caille Gallente Federation
17
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Posted - 2014.09.06 05:37:00 -
[65] - Quote
After all the EVE-is-dying threads from Tranquility players we are now getting Serenity players posting their own EVE-is-dying threads on Tranquility forums?
Because we certainly can use some more of those.
It has come to the point that I'm starting to wonder if THIS is the real game and I have just been wasting my time by logging into the server. Carebear Extraordinaire |
Mr Epeen
It's All About Me
5902
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 06:23:00 -
[66] - Quote
Whenever a thread like this comes up, it seems to me that people are just a little too quick to jump in denying they have anything to do with the rampant botting in this game.
Kinda makes one wonder what the actual situation is...
Mr Epeen There are 86,400 seconds in a day. You just saved one of them by typing 'u' instead of 'you'.-á Congratulations, dumbass! |
Rain6637
Team Evil
18204
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 06:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
1 man corp level 4 mission agent station at least 1 bookmark in cargo CN fit navy raven
c'mon. c'mon President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub | Rainfleet on Twitch | Twitter | Rainfleet mk.III | Imgur |
Eugene Kerner
TunDraGon Cynosural Field Theory.
1339
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Posted - 2014.09.06 06:42:00 -
[68] - Quote
rant....check rumors.....check NPC Alt....check troll....check
lock this thread TunDraGon is recruiting! "Also, your boobs " -á CCP Eterne, 2012 "When in doubt...make a di++k joke."-áRobin Williams - RIP
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DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
966
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:07:00 -
[69] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:This is just another PLEX cost a lot of isk thread.
As mentioned SRNTY is China only, whereas tranquility is the rest of the world. This multiculture gives T acompletly different drive. Despite all ganker propaganda, there are a lot of players, that like retrieving source material and building stuff. others trade only and the loudest groups play PvP. Some pvpler might despice indus / miners, but they are still one of the important groups. There is fun in earning isk despite being hunted by pvplers. If in TQ someone somewhat openly use bots, you can count on one thing: they would be hunted down.
rofl you think mining, building things, and doing industry is *not* a PVP action :P
Also, as many of my friends who run industrial characters can verify - being "hunted" by others is what MAKES EVE FUN. We all win sometimes, we all lose sometimes, but please - stop this sillyness of thinking that any single action you do is not a PVP action. It's outdated, and just a sign that you have not really thought about it much. |
DJentropy Ovaert
The Conference Elite CODE.
966
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 07:10:00 -
[70] - Quote
Mr Epeen wrote:Whenever a thread like this comes up, it seems to me that people are just a little too quick to jump in denying they have anything to do with the rampant botting in this game. Kinda makes one wonder what the actual situation is... Mr Epeen
A well funded system like a lot of first person shooters use that verifies all client actions and local data would be a nice start :(
We are not even close to there yet.
I will say - I have run across quite a few bot farms on TQ - and have reported them and encouraged others to do the same. It takes weeks, sometimes months, but they all end up in Doomheim sooner or later.
It would be nice to see this process automated a touch, however, as any of the botting I have run across on TQ is beyond obvious - to say the least. |
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ashley Eoner
333
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:33:00 -
[71] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:Mr Epeen wrote:Whenever a thread like this comes up, it seems to me that people are just a little too quick to jump in denying they have anything to do with the rampant botting in this game. Kinda makes one wonder what the actual situation is... Mr Epeen A well funded system like a lot of first person shooters use that verifies all client actions and local data would be a nice start :( We are not even close to there yet. I will say - I have run across quite a few bot farms on TQ - and have reported them and encouraged others to do the same. It takes weeks, sometimes months, but they all end up in Doomheim sooner or later. It would be nice to see this process automated a touch, however, as any of the botting I have run across on TQ is beyond obvious - to say the least. Yeah and those first person shooters still have hacks galore......... |
embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
190
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 09:21:00 -
[72] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:La Rynx wrote:This is just another PLEX cost a lot of isk thread.
As mentioned SRNTY is China only, whereas tranquility is the rest of the world. This multiculture gives T acompletly different drive. Despite all ganker propaganda, there are a lot of players, that like retrieving source material and building stuff. others trade only and the loudest groups play PvP. Some pvpler might despice indus / miners, but they are still one of the important groups. There is fun in earning isk despite being hunted by pvplers. If in TQ someone somewhat openly use bots, you can count on one thing: they would be hunted down. rofl you think mining, building things, and doing industry is *not* a PVP action :P Also, as many of my friends who run industrial characters can verify - being "hunted" by others is what MAKES EVE FUN. We all win sometimes, we all lose sometimes, but please - stop this sillyness of thinking that any single action you do is not a PVP action. It's outdated, and just a sign that you have not really thought about it much.
Definitions rarely change the essential character of what they describe.
In other words: Does it matter? |
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 11:17:00 -
[73] - Quote
DJentropy Ovaert wrote:La Rynx wrote:rofl you think mining, building things, and doing industry is *not* a PVP action :P
What now?` "rofl" or ":P"
how can i write this, so that a common "codie" understands? the kick is building despite your feeble actions.
DJentropy Ovaert wrote: Also, as many of my friends who run industrial characters can verify - being "hunted" by others is what MAKES EVE FUN.
I said something quite similar, however it didn't reach you.
You and you sorry clownstroupe are no danger for me and my alts. But what really disgusts me is, when you anoy (for me harras) for hours systematically. thats a strange kind of fun. asocial behavior one might say. very intersting that your group has a lot affinity for those guys. not shooting but trying hard for some extratears. Forum Main |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24449
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 11:27:00 -
[74] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:You and you sorry clownstroupe are no danger for me and my alts. But what really disgusts me is, when you anoy (for me harras) for hours systematically. thats a strange kind of fun. asocial behavior one might say. How is it asocial of him to want to play with you, but not of you to only want to play with yourself? GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
91
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 11:41:00 -
[75] - Quote
Victor Andall wrote:Could you give us a source for your " it seems that active players hit a new bottom in both servers"? eve-offline gives public stats if you want to check them. seing those, serenity its really falling down flat |
Ursula Thrace
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
260
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:01:00 -
[76] - Quote
thread needs moar pshhh. eve online original intro
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4513
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
Tippia wrote:La Rynx wrote:You and you sorry clownstroupe are no danger for me and my alts. But what really disgusts me is, when you anoy (for me harras) for hours systematically. thats a strange kind of fun. asocial behavior one might say. How is it asocial of him to want to play with you, but not of you to only want to play with yourself?
Giggity? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4513
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:09:00 -
[78] - Quote
I'm shopping in Jita right now on my alt and, I have to say, I'm not concerned about PLEX prices. What I really want to know is...
*tinfoil on*
Why are goons causing such a price hike in meta 4 dcus? I mean, back in February, I was buying them for 7 mil a piece. Now, I'm looking at 11-11.5 mil. WHAT IS THIS PURE TRAVESTY!!! If you were to tell me that this is the reason for the world going to hell in a handbasket, I'd almost believe you save for the fact that the world won't fit in a handbasket.
*tinfoil o..... wait, actually, this is kinda comfy, never mind* GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
embrel
BamBam Inc. Outlanders United
190
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:16:00 -
[79] - Quote
Tippia wrote:La Rynx wrote:You and you sorry clownstroupe are no danger for me and my alts. But what really disgusts me is, when you anoy (for me harras) for hours systematically. thats a strange kind of fun. asocial behavior one might say. How is it asocial of him to want to play with you, but not of you to only want to play with yourself?
Guess the same was said in court too here and there.
How can she be so asocial not to want to play with big bad man??
No, I do not compare Code to whatever, just said your reply doesn't fit. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
781
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:18:00 -
[80] - Quote
A Chinese EVE server, a country that is famous for gold farming in every MMO imaginable, is dying due to bots.
Who would'a thunk it.
Not today spaghetti. |
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4516
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
embrel wrote:
Guess the same was said in court too here and there.
Here come the internet lawyers. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Ocih
Space Mermaids Somethin Awfull Forums
719
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:24:00 -
[82] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I'm shopping in Jita right now on my alt and, I have to say, I'm not concerned about PLEX prices. What I really want to know is...
*tinfoil on*
Why are goons causing such a price hike in meta 4 dcus? I mean, back in February, I was buying them for 7 mil a piece. Now, I'm looking at 11-11.5 mil. WHAT IS THIS PURE TRAVESTY!!! If you were to tell me that this is the reason for the world going to hell in a handbasket, I'd almost believe you save for the fact that the world won't fit in a handbasket.
*tinfoil o..... wait, actually, this is kinda comfy, never mind*
Speculationings is fun no matter how you read the tea leaves and a lot of Meta 4 are vanishing. They may or may not get price spiked but they are being purchased from the sell orders when ever a large stack shows up. Not sure what the reason. I have stacks and stacks of any Meta 4 I actually use. DCU's? I bought 1500 T2 a long time ago, I still have most of them. Theya re pretty cheap and easy to fit, the cornering of those is confusing. |
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:38:00 -
[83] - Quote
Tippia wrote:La Rynx wrote:You and you sorry clownstroupe are no danger for me and my alts. But what really disgusts me is, when you anoy (for me harras) for hours systematically. thats a strange kind of fun. asocial behavior one might say. How is it asocial of him to want to play with you, but not of you to only want to play with yourself?
As where did i say i don't play with others?
Better: He and his buddies don't care playing with me even when i am ice mining in certain systems. They go for the weakest inexperienced and anoy (harras) them for hours. thats not playing eve. thats not protecting eve. thats griefplay. Forum Main |
Wookie 1
5
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 12:40:00 -
[84] - Quote
To try and get this particular train back on the tracks.
From what I understand OP is saying, that PLEX prices are soaring, too high in ISk, and that there is a risk, much as he says happened in China, where PvE stops being a realistic career path, because it just easier and cheaper to buy a PLEX with real money and get a free 700 million - Billion, etc. He further suggests that as a result of the overheated PLEX market on Serenity that all industrial jobs have been taken over by bots due to a lack of 'people' who wish to do them for such little reward.
I think he is suggesting that the terrible inflationary pressures that you can see in EVE across the past few years particularly in the value of a plex will eventually cause this tapering off of industrial, mining, missioning and other money making activites as it becomes simpler to just buy or sell a PLEX to fund one's habits and subs.
I don't know if this is actually true. Just trying to explain what he was saying. |
O'nira
united system's commonwealth
37
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 13:11:00 -
[85] - Quote
while i think eve is on a bit of a downward slope right now it is by no means dying for years to come at least |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
24454
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 13:16:00 -
[86] - Quote
La Rynx wrote:As where did i say i don't play with others? You didn't GÇö after all, he's playing with you, which means you're playing with him, which was the nature of the entire complaint. What you mentioned was that you were playing with yourself, and you describe playing with him as disgusting, annoying, and asocial. Neither of the labels make sense.
embrel wrote:Guess the same was said in court too here and there.
How can she be so asocial not to want to play with big bad man?? Not really, no. After all, she's not blaming the man for being asocialGǪ GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥
Get a good start: Newbie skillplan 2.2. |
Beta Maoye
36
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 13:23:00 -
[87] - Quote
It is not about the price of PLEX. It is the 24/7 ratting and mining bots drive away real human players. Bots are so efficient that velocity of isk inflow is much faster that actual human players can make. Isk becomes cheaper in terms of effort and time that needed to acquire. Large supply of "cheap" isk flood the market makes everthing expensive including PLEX. Some of these excessive isk went into speculation of item prices getting the problem worse. One or more particular items in the market were bought up to corner the market and resell at double or more the normal price. That makes the life of actual human players difficult. Eventually those without bot supports will either quit or sell plex for a living. Those with bot supports will be at the top of the food chain. In time, more and more players will quit because they think the game is unfair and beyond their tolerance.
I think any game operator must fight ruthless against bots for the long term benefit of their games. One of the possible moral hazards is that an agent that do not own the game may have the incentive to loosen up the bot/rmt rules of game for fast short-term benefits. That will certainly ruin the game in long term. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6045
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 13:31:00 -
[88] - Quote
Beta Maoye wrote:It is not about the price of PLEX. It is the 24/7 ratting and mining bots drive away real human players. Bots are so efficient that velocity of isk inflow is much faster that actual human players can make. Isk becomes cheaper in terms of effort and time that needed to acquire. Large supply of "cheap" isk flood the market makes everthing expensive including PLEX. Some of these excessive isk went into speculation of item prices getting the problem worse. One or more particular items in the market were bought up to corner the market and resell at double or more the normal price. That makes the life of actual human players difficult. Eventually those without bot supports will either quit or sell plex for a living. Those with bot supports will be at the top of the food chain. In time, more and more players will quit because they think the game is unfair and beyond their tolerance.
I think any game operator must fight ruthless against bots for the long term benefit of their games. One of the possible moral hazards is that an agent that do not own the game may have the incentive to loosen up the bot/rmt rules of game for fast short-term benefits. That will certainly ruin the game in long term.
I like your logic there. I have shitloads more isk than you, therefore I must bot. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee & Grammar Gestapo. |
Victor Andall
751
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 13:37:00 -
[89] - Quote
Jooo Audeles wrote:Victor Andall wrote:Could you give us a source for your " it seems that active players hit a new bottom in both servers"? you can check the data on eve-offline Currently online:32,071Health:ok Max (24h):36,341 (2014-09-04 18:57:48)Version:8.47.823475 - EVE-TRANQUILITY@ccp Current record:65,303 (2013-05-05 19:09:04)IP:87.237.38.200 I log in TRANQUILITY almost everyday, and I remember that,last year I can always find the active pilot above 40K, but only 30K this year. Currently online:6,017Health:ok Max (24h):11,716 (2014-09-05 14:05:16)Version:8.44.801295 - EVE-SERENITY@optic Current record:42,170 (2012-08-23 13:28:36)IP:211.144.214.68 If you look at the All time (weekly average), you will find the decrease of population in both server, Serenity since 2012, the 3rd "re-born" and TRANQUILITY since 2014-2, reach a new bottom since almost 2011
"Active players" is not defined by the number of players online when you last logged in. The number of EVE active subscribers has been steadily rising since 2003. That people in your timezone have stopped playing as much during the summer says nothing about the state of the game. I just undocked for the first time and someone challenged me to a duel. Wat do?
19.08.2014 - Dinsdale gets slammed by CCP Falcon. Never forget. |
Beta Maoye
36
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 13:41:00 -
[90] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote: I like your logic there. I have shitloads more isk than you, therefore I must bot.
Surely one can make tons of isk in many legitimate ways. My argument is none of your concern if you are not "bots". |
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