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Xinivrae Makbema
Kyodo-Kai OuterHeaven-SoldiersWithoutBorders
0
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Posted - 2014.09.06 13:22:00 -
[1] - Quote
I've read through here off and on much like I've been a player off and on for some time. Not as long as many, but long enough that I've had some recurring thoughts. Most of them with regards to what I like to call 'end game ships', which is to say Capitals and Supercapitals.
My biggest gripe is the one thing that removed most of them from that 'end game' category, the removal of Clone Vats. When that was done, it killed most of the excitement of working towards them. It also removed a great deal of purpose for small corporations to build POSes outside of WH space.
I recall back when POSes were first introduced, the first thing that entered my mind was how awesome it would be to have a Supercarrier like the Nyx. Ordinarily, I'm a die hard Amarr ship pilot, but back then there was no arguing about how much cooler the Nyx was than every other Carrier/Supercarrier and it just made sense. It's Gallente, and they rock their dronetech so of course it's gonna throw more hurt than any other. Besides, the Amarr had the Avatar and the Archon was a better logi ship than the Gallente's so it was all good. Back to the point, the idea was to have a dedicated parking POS for the Nyx that I could clone jump to and from with minimal fear. If someone attacked the POS, naturally you would never have such a thing without a Corporation to help with the investment but the point would be that the Super really /would/ be the capital of your estate. Now, if it isn't a Rorqual or a Titan you can forget it.
Without Clone Vats, can I ask why anyone outside of the rental empires would bother building or buying a Revenant? Some have asked why anyone would bother with them in any event, but I personally think it would be an awesome logi ship if only for the bragging rights of having a pilot in your corp that can run it right. You can't stick a supercarrier in a hangar, nor does it have a clone vat. Revenants are pretty friggin rare as it is because of what they are and the skills needed to run them properly, faction status aside. The point here is applicable to all Supercapitals, however. Carriers and Dreadnaughts can be parked, so they don't need them and it wasn't such a bad thing there, mind.
It seems that ever since that change, ship changes have just been going downhill ever since. Clone Vat removal was just the start, in my memory on this game, of a series of annoying and frustrating 'rebalances' that have been detrimental to theme as well as play in my opinion. Whose idea was it to make the Prophecy a drone boat? I can deal with removing or adding a turret here and there, but can we stop with the ship overhauls for a while? First we have a supercap introduced that noone is going to fly except to say they have, until its blown up and that will be that for the aforementioned reason, and then we have ship overhauls that run completely contradictory to faction themes and established storylines. If you wanted to give the Amarr a new drone boat, it would have made much more sense to do so as part of a run of new ships for each faction. The Prophecy was just fine as it was.
A few suggestions to balance out the criticism of trend are now in order, I think. Give Supercapitals back their Clone Vats, at least Faction Supercaps like the Revenant. I suspect you'll see a good deal of renewed activity in null sec if you do that, because supercarriers are much more affordable than titans, plus the Revenant might see some life on the grid at that point as an interesting concept design. More faction ships are much more desirable than rebalances and overhauls. I understand that's a taller order, but the on grid frustration with radical changes like what happened with the Prophecy and the Rattlesnake I empathize with. A new ship to field the Gecko would have been a more welcome change than what happened there, overhauling an existing design to specialize in it as opposed to its longstanding abilities. The current balance of the Supercaps, incidentally, is really great. The Aeon is seeing a lot of use from what I hear by the big empires and is really liked, as opposed to back in the aforementioned days, and the Archon is still a popular ride. Can we keep them that way? |
Rovinia
Exotic Dancers Union SONS of BANE
301
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Posted - 2014.09.07 03:22:00 -
[2] - Quote
Xinivrae Makbema wrote: It seems that ever since that change, ship changes have just been going downhill ever since. Clone Vat removal was just the start, in my memory on this game, of a series of annoying and frustrating 'rebalances' that have been detrimental to theme as well as play in my opinion. Whose idea was it to make the Prophecy a drone boat? I can deal with removing or adding a turret here and there, but can we stop with the ship overhauls for a while?
I strongly disagree. The ship tiericide was one of the best thing that happened to eve in the last years. Do you remember sub-cap pvp before that? It was all about Drakes and Canes. It was soooooo boring.
In my opinion, it was a very good decision from CCP to revamp all those ships without simply starting a power creep but rather trying to give each of them a niche where it makes sense to fly that ship in a certain situation or a special playstyle. I also think the Prophecy is in a much better shape today, i love that ship. And just adding more and more ships just for the sake of having them when lot's of them are in such a bad shape that they never get used would have been a very bad decision.
Xinivrae Makbema wrote: The current balance of the Supercaps, incidentally, is really great. The Aeon is seeing a lot of use from what I hear by the big empires and is really liked, as opposed to back in the aforementioned days, and the Archon is still a popular ride. Can we keep them that way?
Uh... i think a lot of people strongly disagree with that. The fact that a certain ship type (for example archons) get used very often is a strong indicator for imbalance. If you put down your pink amarr glasses for a moment and imagine that you are a dedicated Minmatar pilot flying a Nidhoggur or Hel... You should see the point. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
1209
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Posted - 2014.09.07 03:24:00 -
[3] - Quote
So you wanted a supercarrier for the clone vat?... Kind of expensive for that purpose |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
272
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Posted - 2014.09.07 07:48:00 -
[4] - Quote
IIshira wrote:So you wanted a supercarrier for the clone vat?... Kind of expensive for that purpose
Isn't rorqual 1/10th of the price of a nyx? |
Sequester Risalo
Significant Others
6
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Posted - 2014.09.09 09:16:00 -
[5] - Quote
A boy's will is the wind's will, And the thoughts of youth are long, long thoughts.
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Valleria Darkmoon
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
317
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Posted - 2014.09.10 17:24:00 -
[6] - Quote
Look at it this way, when was the last time you saw a Prophecy?
For me it's been pretty recent, as opposed to the rebalance where they were never ever ever seen anywhere with the possible exception of cyno bait.
The new Rattlesnake is awesome, I don't know how people are missing this. Everyone wanted to dump their Gilas at first when they couldn't use sentries anymore. Unfortunate for me that only one person took me up on my offer to buy all Gilas for 15% below market before people figured out they were good.
Finally and possibly most importantly it should be pointed out that absolutely no one anywhere ever wants a supercarrier now because they can't use clone vats, PL still has so many because they can't find any way to get rid of them right? Reality has an almost infinite capacity to resist oversimplification. |
Rex Omnipotens
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.09.11 05:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
Null sec won't suddenly get busy because of clone vats. The reason things are so stagnant at the moment is a lack of desire on everyone's part to grind system after system for weeks on end in soul crushing time dilation. That being said, capitals will get looked at soonGäó and when they do we can all only hope fighters will be able to hit more than a Titan and dreads will be able to track more than a station. It'd be nice if we got some more capital class ships/types or some new and interesting options/ gameplay mechanics but admittedly this is probably a while away unless they're going to address it in their null sec changes which are also coming soonGäó |
Luwc
Brodozers Inc.
218
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Posted - 2014.09.11 07:36:00 -
[8] - Quote
Inb4 read my post.
yes I read it and to put it in a nutshell its full of ****.
the rebalances brought mad fun and have introduced ships that have been barely used before. The Revenant is pure prestige but why not ? I rather have prestige super than some super OP stuff ripping around (death to all supers)
Also, the ships fit the storylines well.
"I''ve read through here off and on much like I've been a player off and on for some time." ^says it all^
no idea about **** but goes rage posting http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
831
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Posted - 2014.09.11 12:41:00 -
[9] - Quote
Capitals are only endgame ships for people with no imagination.
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TomyLobo
U2EZ
142
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Posted - 2014.09.11 22:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
For capitals, I just hope the chimera gets to be as good as the archon. It'll mostly be solved by tweaking the shield bonus on CPRs. |
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Xinivrae Makbema
Kyodo-Kai OuterHeaven-SoldiersWithoutBorders
0
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Posted - 2014.09.13 21:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
Sure Supercarriers for Clone Vats is expensive, but nowhere near as much as a Titan. Why should a combat pilot have to grind all the way to the suicide beacon known as a Titan for a Clone Vat? Yeah, Rorqual is cool but if I don't want to crossclass way into indy to save isk? Clone vats for Supers would be just as well for those of us that don't want a huge cross hair on our corp.
Yes there's balance issues, always has been. It'll never be perfect, and I'm happy with my pink Amarr glasses. There's a lot of Caldari and Gallente glasses wearing people out there too, I've noticed, and I can't speak for them nor will I. Pretty sure some of them wish they'd stop tweaking the ships every couple weeks too. I'd much rather see new missions and story arcs. The Burner Missions are a good start, I really hope they don't stop there but breath new life into ways and reasons to build faction standing. |
Flaming Forum Spammer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
11
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Posted - 2014.09.13 23:03:00 -
[12] - Quote
hell just give the carriers the clone vat and let more fights happen properly.
Carriers hot drop enemy fleet, 8 pilots clone jump to carrier and undock their sub-BC/T3 for some kills. what's not to love about it?
Legion Neut Range Bonus
Sentry Drone Tracking Skill
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Xinivrae Makbema
Kyodo-Kai OuterHeaven-SoldiersWithoutBorders
0
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Posted - 2014.09.14 14:00:00 -
[13] - Quote
Yeah, it would be nice for capitals and above to all have their clone vats back, but regular capitals can at least be parked, which is my gripe. Supers can't, nor do they have a clone vat and so to have one is to have a character coffin or a bot ride Doesn't make any sense. As for new ships and power creep, I'm not sure how bringing in another pirate faction like Serpentiss or Angel Cartel would cause power creep. Mordu's Legion, Sansha, Blood Raiders, they all do cool. Huge Sansha and Blood Raider ship fan, myself. Love my Cruor.
My point about the Prophecy was an illustration. The Prophecy was extremely durable, that was its purpose. A tank. Amarr already had a drone boat, and incidentally Amarr was at the time in the story opposed to drone research by and large. Amarr has a Butlerian mindset, for the most part, about such things. A cookie for anyone who gets the reference. I like the current Prophecy too, I was just trying to say it didn't make any sense. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
469
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Posted - 2014.09.16 00:58:00 -
[14] - Quote
We need a TS dread that can't fit guns but can fit 3 capital sized neuts. Just don't link getting the bpc to some dumb pve crap. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
2166
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Posted - 2014.09.16 06:04:00 -
[15] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:We need a TS dread that can't fit guns but can fit 3 capital sized neuts. Just don't link getting the bpc to some dumb pve crap.
1) You mean Blood Raider, right?
2) Where exactly would you like the BPC to come from? |
Infrequent
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
39
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Posted - 2014.09.16 14:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Xinivrae Makbema wrote: I'm not sure how bringing in another pirate faction like Serpentiss or Angel Cartel would cause power creep .
We do not need another pirate faction, there are enough pirate ships currently, there's still that certain SoE ship which has yet to find it's place, maybe when the current ship balancing effort has run it's course.
Things need to just continue as they are, these balance passes have been fantastic, there's still a lot to do and I'm sure supers will be getting some more touches in the near future anyway. Let's not forget that there's some supposed big changes coming up which will likely (hopefully) shake up the meta big time.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
479
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:37:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zhilia Mann wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:We need a TS dread that can't fit guns but can fit 3 capital sized neuts. Just don't link getting the bpc to some dumb pve crap. 1) You mean Blood Raider, right? 2) Where exactly would you like the BPC to come from?
1 - yeah whatever
2 - I don't care where it comes from, I just want a big@55 dread size capacitor wonking machine to wonk up carrier caps with.
I'm more of an idea man and end user. All that middle stuff is lost on me. |
Flaming Forum Spammer
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2014.09.19 13:57:00 -
[18] - Quote
Break the cap chains... Capital Neuts/Nos for dreads. Give dreads two slots for them.
Cap Neut 37km range, -1800 cap / 24s, 1500 activation, Dread only
Cap Nos 37km range, -480 cap / 10s, -480 activation, Dread only
ADD XL & Cap batteries +2100 cap, -35% E leech reflect amount, -20% Neut reflect amount (yeah, it helps amarr most... but generations of dealing with Blood Raiders has paid off)
Capital Batteries : +4200% capacitor capacity, -50% E leech reflect amount, -25% Neut reflect amount |
alenotna
Gravity Mining and Manufacturing Inc Storm of Souls
2
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Posted - 2014.10.07 13:29:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rex Omnipotens wrote: capitals will get looked at soonGäó and when they do we can all only hope fighters will be able to hit more than a Titan and dreads will be able to track more than a station.
Amen to this, brothers and sisters...
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