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Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.09.06 22:13:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hey MD,
after having done industry for a couple of months I've finally hit the limit of my own capital. Currently I'm working on improving my competitiveness in the T3 market and that means getting additional funds because half of my time is spent waiting on getting the items that I build sold, and that's time I could spend building other stuff meanwhile.
Loan info Size: 10b in total Duration: 2 months Collateral: Yes Payout: After 1 and 2 months respectively, from the date where I have the ISK in my possession.
The collateral's value consists of (faction) ships aswell as BPOs. The sell value according to evepraisal is 7b, but that's ignoring any kind of research on all of the BPOs where almost all are fully researched, so I expect that increases their value further. The amount can be discussed with potential investors if they don't agree on the value of the collateral. I'm mostly interested in getting a single investor as it makes handling of the collateral alot easier, but if nobody chimes in within a reasonable timeframe, I'll look at splitting it up into a bond instead.
Previous activity 1B collaterised loan @ 10% for 1 month (defaulted)
My track record isn't exactly positive, which is also the reason that I'm setting a decent ROI on a fully collaterised loan, to hopefully make it worthwhile for those who choose to place their trust in me. |
Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2014.09.06 22:13:11 -
[2] - Quote
Hey MD,
after having done industry for a couple of months I've finally hit the limit of my own capital. Currently I'm working on improving my competitiveness in the T3 market and that means getting additional funds because half of my time is spent waiting on getting the items that I build sold, and that's time I could spend building other stuff meanwhile.
Loan info Size: 10b in total Duration: 2 months Collateral: Yes Payout: After 1 and 2 months respectively, from the date where I have the ISK in my possession.
The collateral's value consists of (faction) ships aswell as BPOs. The sell value according to evepraisal is 8.1b, but that's ignoring any kind of research on all of the BPOs where almost all are fully researched, so I expect that increases their value further. The amount can be discussed with potential investors if they don't agree on the value of the collateral. I'm mostly interested in getting a single investor as it makes handling of the collateral alot easier, but if nobody chimes in within a reasonable timeframe, I'll look at splitting it up into a bond instead.
Previous activity 1B collaterised loan @ 10% for 1 month (defaulted)
My track record isn't exactly positive, which is also the reason that I'm setting a decent ROI on a fully collaterised loan, to hopefully make it worthwhile for those who choose to place their trust in me. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
403
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Posted - 2014.09.06 22:23:00 -
[3] - Quote
Unless the BPOs are perfect ME capital ship BPOs, I doubt the research makes up the remaining 3b you're asking for. Most people won't lend you over NPC price for BPOs either, due to the extra effort and time it takes to sell them. List the collateral plus research though, someone might be interested and if they are ME 10 capital ships then let me know ;). .
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
428
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Posted - 2014.09.06 22:23:17 -
[4] - Quote
Unless the BPOs are perfect ME capital ship BPOs, I doubt the research makes up the remaining 3b you're asking for. Most people won't lend you over NPC price for BPOs either, due to the extra effort and time it takes to sell them. List the collateral plus research though, someone might be interested and if they are ME 10 capital ships then let me know ;).
.
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Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.09.06 22:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Unless the BPOs are perfect ME capital ship BPOs, I doubt the research makes up the remaining 3b you're asking for. Most people won't lend you over NPC price for BPOs either, due to the extra effort and time it takes to sell them. List the collateral plus research though, someone might be interested and if they are ME 10 capital ships then let me know ;).
I see. In that case I don't mind lowering the loan amount. I added another 1.1b into the colleteral pool and if anyone is interested but doesn't like the amount compared to collateral, don't hesitate to send me a mail ingame or a private convo. I'm definitely open to negotiations.
Also added link to collateral spreadsheet. |
Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2014.09.06 22:58:53 -
[6] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Unless the BPOs are perfect ME capital ship BPOs, I doubt the research makes up the remaining 3b you're asking for. Most people won't lend you over NPC price for BPOs either, due to the extra effort and time it takes to sell them. List the collateral plus research though, someone might be interested and if they are ME 10 capital ships then let me know ;).
I see. In that case I don't mind lowering the loan amount. I added another 1.1b into the colleteral pool and if anyone is interested but doesn't like the amount compared to collateral, don't hesitate to send me a mail ingame or a private convo. I'm definitely open to negotiations.
Also added link to collateral spreadsheet. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5502
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Posted - 2014.09.07 00:56:00 -
[7] - Quote
Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Unless the BPOs are perfect ME capital ship BPOs, I doubt the research makes up the remaining 3b you're asking for. Most people won't lend you over NPC price for BPOs either, due to the extra effort and time it takes to sell them. List the collateral plus research though, someone might be interested and if they are ME 10 capital ships then let me know ;). I see. In that case I don't mind lowering the loan amount. I added another 1.1b into the colleteral pool and if anyone is interested but doesn't like the amount compared to collateral, don't hesitate to send me a mail ingame or a private convo. I'm definitely open to negotiations. Also added link to collateral spreadsheet.
I'll fill the loan for 8B. I'll check the contracted stuff value piece by piece of course before accepting it. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5564
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Posted - 2014.09.07 00:56:51 -
[8] - Quote
Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Unless the BPOs are perfect ME capital ship BPOs, I doubt the research makes up the remaining 3b you're asking for. Most people won't lend you over NPC price for BPOs either, due to the extra effort and time it takes to sell them. List the collateral plus research though, someone might be interested and if they are ME 10 capital ships then let me know ;). I see. In that case I don't mind lowering the loan amount. I added another 1.1b into the colleteral pool and if anyone is interested but doesn't like the amount compared to collateral, don't hesitate to send me a mail ingame or a private convo. I'm definitely open to negotiations. Also added link to collateral spreadsheet.
I'll fill the loan for 8B. I'll check the contracted stuff value piece by piece of course before accepting it.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5502
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:28:00 -
[9] - Quote
Contract accepted. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5564
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:28:33 -
[10] - Quote
Contract accepted.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:30:00 -
[11] - Quote
Confirming that Vaerah now holds the collateral and I have 8b in my possession the 07/09/2014.
Will payout 800m to Vaerah Vahrokha the 07/10 and pay her back 8b + 800m the 07/11. |
Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:30:04 -
[12] - Quote
Confirming that Vaerah now holds the collateral and I have 8b in my possession the 07/09/2014.
Will payout 800m to Vaerah Vahrokha the 07/10 and pay her back 8b + 800m the 07/11. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5502
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Additional terms agreed to in game:
1) It's possible to ask for the loan to last more months provided I'll be forewarned about this intention 1 week before each rate maturity.
2) The loan will be considered in default past 5 days after rate maturity date and collateral shall be liquidated. Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
5564
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Posted - 2014.09.07 12:41:53 -
[14] - Quote
Additional terms agreed to in game:
1) It's possible to ask for the loan to last more months provided I'll be forewarned about this intention 1 week before each rate maturity.
2) The loan will be considered in default past 5 days after rate maturity date and collateral shall be liquidated.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
404
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Posted - 2014.09.07 21:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Did you just pay 8b for <6.5b of ships (at Jita price) and BPOs (at NPC price) to someone who had previously defaulted on a much smaller loan? .
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
428
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Posted - 2014.09.07 21:47:46 -
[16] - Quote
Did you just pay 8b for <6.5b of ships (at Jita price) and BPOs (at NPC price) to someone who had previously defaulted on a much smaller loan?
.
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Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.09.08 06:30:00 -
[17] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Did you just pay 8b for <6.5b of ships (at Jita price) and BPOs (at NPC price) to someone who had previously defaulted on a much smaller loan?
Thanks Elizabeth, it's nice to know how low you think of me.
There's a story behind the whole ordeal with my previous loan, but I won't get further into that here. The circumstances under which my previous loan were taken, were also quite different than this time around and that loan happened more than 4 years ago, is it unthinkable that I've learned how to take better care in the meantime?
I believe Vaerah wouldn't have bothered if she felt that the risk wasn't worth it. I'm just very thankful that she chose to place her trust in me. |
Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2014.09.08 06:30:22 -
[18] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Did you just pay 8b for <6.5b of ships (at Jita price) and BPOs (at NPC price) to someone who had previously defaulted on a much smaller loan?
Thanks Elizabeth, it's nice to know how low you think of me.
There's a story behind the whole ordeal with my previous loan, but I won't get further into that here. The circumstances under which my previous loan were taken, were also quite different than this time around and that loan happened more than 4 years ago, is it unthinkable that I've learned how to take better care in the meantime?
I believe Vaerah wouldn't have bothered if she felt that the risk wasn't worth it. I'm just very thankful that she chose to place her trust in me. |
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
404
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Posted - 2014.09.08 07:01:00 -
[19] - Quote
Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back? .
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Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
428
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Posted - 2014.09.08 07:01:58 -
[20] - Quote
Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back?
.
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Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.09.08 08:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back?
I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484 |
Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2014.09.08 08:58:06 -
[22] - Quote
Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back?
I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484 |
flakeys
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2432
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Posted - 2014.09.08 09:55:00 -
[23] - Quote
Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back? I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484
If your working with bpo's then the worst thing to go off by is evepraisel , it will give you mostly PLAYER sales not NPC sales and as such your number will normally allways be too high.
For example your capital contruction bpo has a 170m above npc price on that evepraisel and the templar bpo also is 100 m over npc,So that's lowering your value by 270m allready when only checking 2 items in that list.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2574
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Posted - 2014.09.08 09:55:07 -
[24] - Quote
Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back? I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484
If your working with bpo's then the worst thing to go off by is evepraisel , it will give you mostly PLAYER sales not NPC sales and as such your number will normally allways be too high.
For example your capital contruction bpo has a 170m above npc price on that evepraisel and the templar bpo also is 100 m over npc,So that's lowering your value by 270m allready when only checking 2 items in that list.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.09.08 10:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back? I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484 If your working with bpo's then the worst thing to go off by is evepraisel , it will give you mostly PLAYER sales not NPC sales and as such your number will normally allways be too high. For example your capital contruction bpo has a 170m above npc price on that evepraisel and the templar bpo also is 100 m over npc,So that's lowering your value by 270m allready when only checking 2 items in that list.
I could understand that if those BPOs were unresearched, but they're mostly fully researched. Is it fair just to discard all of the time that went into that aswell as the ISK necessary after Crius? I mean, if you value all BPOs at 100% NPC value ignoring all research, it's possible to come in here with a few billions on hand, find somebody who's offering fully researched BPOs as collateral and then take that loan and keep the BPOs? I don't see how that's fair to the loanee in any way. |
Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2014.09.08 10:55:59 -
[26] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back? I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484 If your working with bpo's then the worst thing to go off by is evepraisel , it will give you mostly PLAYER sales not NPC sales and as such your number will normally allways be too high. For example your capital contruction bpo has a 170m above npc price on that evepraisel and the templar bpo also is 100 m over npc,So that's lowering your value by 270m allready when only checking 2 items in that list.
I could understand that if those BPOs were unresearched, but they're mostly fully researched. Is it fair just to discard all of the time that went into that aswell as the ISK necessary after Crius? I mean, if you value all BPOs at 100% NPC value ignoring all research, it's possible to come in here with a few billions on hand, find somebody who's offering fully researched BPOs as collateral and then take that loan and keep the BPOs? I don't see how that's fair to the loanee in any way. |
flakeys
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2432
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Posted - 2014.09.08 12:03:00 -
[27] - Quote
Capsups wrote:flakeys wrote:Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back? I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484 If your working with bpo's then the worst thing to go off by is evepraisel , it will give you mostly PLAYER sales not NPC sales and as such your number will normally allways be too high. For example your capital contruction bpo has a 170m above npc price on that evepraisel and the templar bpo also is 100 m over npc,So that's lowering your value by 270m allready when only checking 2 items in that list. I could understand that if those BPOs were unresearched, but they're mostly fully researched. Is it fair just to discard all of the time that went into that aswell as the ISK necessary after Crius? I mean, if you value all BPOs at 100% NPC value ignoring all research, it's possible to come in here with a few billions on hand, find somebody who's offering fully researched BPOs as collateral and then take that loan and keep the BPOs? I don't see how that's fair to the loanee in any way.
Just like in reall life the one who seeks the loan will draw the short end of the stick.If we value them above NPC then the one who takes the loan could see it as a quicksale on his items.The one who loans the isk is the one in ''need of something'' not the other way around as such he is the one who must take the highest risk .
Also you are free to choose who to loan isk from and can use a 3rd party if you feel the one who holds your collateral is not trustworthy enough.
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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flakeys
Arkham Innovations
2574
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Posted - 2014.09.08 12:03:32 -
[28] - Quote
Capsups wrote:flakeys wrote:Capsups wrote:Elizabeth Norn wrote:Don't take it personally, I don't know you and don't have much to go on. Would you hand 1.5b over to me if I promised to send you more back? I must admit I'm unsure where you got the 6.5b estimate from, as eve praisal says something else: http://evepraisal.com/e/3360484 If your working with bpo's then the worst thing to go off by is evepraisel , it will give you mostly PLAYER sales not NPC sales and as such your number will normally allways be too high. For example your capital contruction bpo has a 170m above npc price on that evepraisel and the templar bpo also is 100 m over npc,So that's lowering your value by 270m allready when only checking 2 items in that list. I could understand that if those BPOs were unresearched, but they're mostly fully researched. Is it fair just to discard all of the time that went into that aswell as the ISK necessary after Crius? I mean, if you value all BPOs at 100% NPC value ignoring all research, it's possible to come in here with a few billions on hand, find somebody who's offering fully researched BPOs as collateral and then take that loan and keep the BPOs? I don't see how that's fair to the loanee in any way.
Just like in reall life the one who seeks the loan will draw the short end of the stick.If we value them above NPC then the one who takes the loan could see it as a quicksale on his items.The one who loans the isk is the one in ''need of something'' not the other way around as such he is the one who must take the highest risk .
Also you are free to choose who to loan isk from and can use a 3rd party if you feel the one who holds your collateral is not trustworthy enough.
Also as you defaulted on a loan before it should not be hard to see why the collateral should be valued at a quick sales price , right ?
We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
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Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
0
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Posted - 2014.09.09 07:14:00 -
[29] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Also as you defaulted on a loan before it should not be hard to see why the collateral should be valued at a quick sales price , right ?
I certainly understand the reasoning behind that. |
Capsups
Blitzkrieg. Get Off My Lawn
5
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Posted - 2014.09.09 07:14:22 -
[30] - Quote
flakeys wrote:Also as you defaulted on a loan before it should not be hard to see why the collateral should be valued at a quick sales price , right ?
I certainly understand the reasoning behind that. |
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