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CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.09.08 02:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
To clarify, the relative difficulty of missions for a given mission level.
I've been grinding out my standing doing security missions.
Mission difficulty varies of course, and that's great and expected. Naturally, I hate those that dump you right in the middle of a swarm - that's cruel and unusual punishment to me. These are tough, but a tactic can be developed so that a tough mission is doable if you tackle it the right way...
Then I ran into Cut-Throat Competition. This began as one of those gate-into-the-middle-of-a-swarm problems. Okay, tough but I have my tactics and I know my Stratios.
The mission is very tough; two groups of cruisers. These groups are very quick to target your drones, and devastatingly effective against them; I watched one "Integrated" heavy evaporate in four seconds.
With patience and care, I was able to draw out the field, isolate them enough to control range and through slow attrition, take them out. I was just thinking how much harder this mission was than anything I'd gotten before for a level 3 when BAM, a new group spawned practically on top of me. This in itself is a mechanic needing attention, as this post says, as I now found myself in the original difficulty of being almost surrounded once more.
I immediately turned-and-burned to get the hell out of the kitchen, but ended up having to warp out. These new visitors are way more powerful than the first two groups and I was already well into my armor and struggling to manage cap.
This new group (of 9 cruisers I think) had "specialists" and other beefed up cruisers in it, btw. They refused to spread out, always keeping the max distance between any two ships to under 10km, and they did a lot more damage.
Worse, they can target and jam you out to over 130km, and they are dangerous up to about 120km, throwing missiles and I think projectiles with deadly accuracy. I ran off and did a refit to try to deal with this, but the best falloff range (at my sp) I could coax out of the Stratios was about 70km, targeting out to maybe 80km+. Not even close. I had no way to get close enough to do -any- damage before I'd get jammed.
I don't yet have the capacity to fly BCs or BSs - maybe one of those would have the range and/or tank to handle this situation. And of course, a group could do it.
But that is not the point of my post.
The point is, this mission started out being so much harder than anything else I'd encountered at this level that I was already thinking it was a bit imbalanced, and then it escalated exponentially. Frankly, I'm impressed the Stratios was able to tank them long enough to run away from 30-ish km out to about 140km (which took a really long time - the Stratios is not a sprinter).
To put this another way, if you use my skills and the ship I fly as a measure, these missions were running from "not bad" to "very difficult". The start of this particular mission raised that bar significantly to "nearly impossible", then escalated to "WTF - totally impossible".
And I was just starting to convince myself we "soloists" aren't being strong armed into joining corporations. :) |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8067
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Posted - 2014.09.08 03:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
There is nothing wrong with that mission, you are doing it wrong. You only have to kill 7 or 8 cruiser sized ships (the ones with the Blackbird Hull forget the name), refrain from killing the ship with the Moa hull, blow up the repair station and leave.
The point of missions like that are "get in quick, do what you have to do, get out because heavy reinforcements are coming". Advanced pilots will clear entire missions like that to prove they can or for the loot/salvage, but at your stage the best idea is to learn what to do, do it and keep your ship safe. There are several lvl 4 missions like that as well.
No conspiracy to make you join any corp here. |
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.09.08 03:57:00 -
[3] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:There is nothing wrong with that mission, you are doing it wrong. You only have to kill 7 or 8 cruiser sized ships (the ones with the Blackbird Hull forget the name), refrain from killing the ship with the Moa hull, blow up the repair station and leave. I believe you, and thank you, but...
"Go to the site, destroy their entire security force, then destroy the repair outpost."
Is the description misleading then? It does say I am required to destroy "their entire... force".
Quote:The point of missions like that are "get in quick, do what you have to do, get out because heavy reinforcements are coming". Advanced pilots will clear entire missions like that to prove they can or for the loot/salvage, but at your stage the best idea is to learn what to do, do it and keep your ship safe. There are several lvl 4 missions like that as well. I'll take note of that - basically be sure to rtfm, right?
Quote:No conspiracy to make you join any corp here. Just stirring the pot :)
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Luwc
Brodozers Inc.
208
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Posted - 2014.09.08 06:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
man.
do you know when your butthole is sometimes so itchy that you would just love stick a finger up your rectum to scratch yourself.
thats how your topic is like. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
1
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Posted - 2014.09.08 07:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Luwc wrote:do you know when your butthole is sometimes so itchy that you would just love stick a finger up your rectum to scratch yourself. You should probably consult a physician for that. |
Voxinian
39
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Posted - 2014.09.08 11:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports
Before doing a (hard) mission check this site to see what you are up against and what the spawn triggers are.
Up to the point you have decent skills that site is your big mission friend. |
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
28
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Posted - 2014.09.08 13:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
You probably need to up-ship. The Stratios is a fine cruiser, but some missions are going to make it work very hard. I've found that BC's are almost a must for some L3's if you want to do them in any reasonable amount of time -- you need the tank and firepower. Also, I never have just one basic hull I for L3/L4 missions. I have several different setups for different missions: kiting, brawling, missile boats, laser boats, drone boats, etc.
And as a previous poster pointed out, Eve Survival is your friend. Always have that window open when you're mission-running to see what you're going up against and how to fit to counter it.
EDIT: Gurista/Caldari missions suck because of ECM jamming. Worst missions in the game. Even damps aren't as bad as not being able to lock at all. I don't even bother running Caldari missions because of ECM jamming. And ECCM doesn't seem to do squat. |
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Natural 20 Shinjiketo
20
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Posted - 2014.09.08 13:49:00 -
[8] - Quote
I suppose I can somewhat sympathize with the OP, some missions you can get placed right on top of enemies can sometimes be difficult to handle I suppose but that also comes with bringing the right ship for the right job. One in particular I dislike is a mission involving Angel Heavy Assault Cruisers and Angel Assault Frigates. I suppose I hate this mission for two reasons really, they're extremely resistant to my kinetic/thermal railguns and they do damage that beats me right in my armor hole with my proteus. I suppose if I took a loki and equipped fusion ammo I'd fair far better. However, this mission is rather difficult, its hard to spot the trigger enemy and the tank of the heavy assault cruisers and assault frigates is exceptional compared to other NPC's I actually found that killing the angel warlords was easier than killing the heavy assault cruisers themselves.
In the case the OP is having, the Jamming ships there are programmed to fly far away and jam you from afar aswell. I attempted this in my navy apocalypse a long while ago and found that I was constantly jammed. I reevaluated my fit and fit an anti-jamming module I think its called ECCM and I picked the one that gave me extra strength to the Radar systems. It worked great, I wasn't jammed as badly, I went from being unable to target at all constantly to being jammed only occasionally. This was the only time that I found my BS unable to handle an enemy, purely because I couldn't target them. The same applies to certain Serpentis missions where the sensor damping physically prevents you from locking on within 15km and the lock on time exceeds 1 minute.
So to recap, make sure you fit for the mission incredibly. Stay fast so missile damage is minimal and use ECCM to prevent getting jammed. |
Rena Monachica
Capital Hot Rods
4
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:05:00 -
[9] - Quote
yup, that mission was a nasty surprise when I got it for the first time
"Its just a lvl 3, nothing to care about ... hey wait a second, where did my armor go? WTFFFF"
there are freak missions like that in every tier. The Blockade is also quite hard for a lvl 3. Or Mission of Mercy for lvl 2. |
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky
Natural 20 Shinjiketo
20
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Rena Monachica wrote:yup, that mission was a nasty surprise when I got it for the first time
"Its just a lvl 3, nothing to care about ... hey wait a second, where did my armor go? WTFFFF"
there are freak missions like that in every tier. The Blockade is also quite hard for a lvl 3. Or Mission of Mercy for lvl 2. The blockade on level 4 is extremely tough, probably the toughest Level 4 there is purely because there is one room, the NPC's can neut to 30km and can tracking disrupt you from over 60. I always try to bring a friend for this and I think the best way is to use cruise missiles from over 100km away to avoid all damage entirely. |
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CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Voxinian wrote:http://eve-survival.org/wikka.php?wakka=MissionReports
Before doing a (hard) mission check this site to see what you are up against and what the spawn triggers are.
Up to the point you have decent skills that site is your big mission friend. Outstanding. Thank you for the information. |
Voxinian
39
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:Rena Monachica wrote:yup, that mission was a nasty surprise when I got it for the first time
"Its just a lvl 3, nothing to care about ... hey wait a second, where did my armor go? WTFFFF"
there are freak missions like that in every tier. The Blockade is also quite hard for a lvl 3. Or Mission of Mercy for lvl 2. The blockade on level 4 is extremely tough, probably the toughest Level 4 there is purely because there is one room, the NPC's can neut to 30km and can tracking disrupt you from over 60. I always try to bring a friend for this and I think the best way is to use cruise missiles from over 100km away to avoid all damage entirely.
Worlds Collide is thougher as for incomming dps. |
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
Tolkaz Khamsi wrote:You probably need to up-ship. The Stratios is a fine cruiser... Working on that :) The Stratios has served well, but it is apparent I am asking too much of it in cases like this.
Quote:EDIT: Gurista/Caldari missions suck because of ECM jamming. Worst missions in the game. Even damps aren't as bad as not being able to lock at all. I don't even bother running Caldari missions because of ECM jamming. And ECCM doesn't seem to do squat. Noted...
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:I suppose I can somewhat sympathize with the OP, some missions you can get placed right on top of enemies can sometimes be difficult to handle I suppose but that also comes with bringing the right ship for the right job.
...
So to recap, make sure you fit for the mission incredibly. Stay fast so missile damage is minimal and use ECCM to prevent getting jammed. Thanks for the advice.
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CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.08 14:42:00 -
[14] - Quote
Rena Monachica wrote:yup, that mission was a nasty surprise when I got it for the first time
"Its just a lvl 3, nothing to care about ... hey wait a second, where did my armor go? WTFFFF"
there are freak missions like that in every tier. The Blockade is also quite hard for a lvl 3. Or Mission of Mercy for lvl 2. Yeah, exactly what happened to me, and I really don't have the ISK to replace the Stratios, let alone fit it again.
Vlad Vladimir Vladinovsky wrote:Rena Monachica wrote:yup, that mission was a nasty surprise when I got it for the first time
"Its just a lvl 3, nothing to care about ... hey wait a second, where did my armor go? WTFFFF"
there are freak missions like that in every tier. The Blockade is also quite hard for a lvl 3. Or Mission of Mercy for lvl 2. The blockade on level 4 is extremely tough, probably the toughest Level 4 there is purely because there is one room, the NPC's can neut to 30km and can tracking disrupt you from over 60. I always try to bring a friend for this and I think the best way is to use cruise missiles from over 100km away to avoid all damage entirely. Well, I'll take that to mean it is deliberate and CCP does not see this as a mistake. At least I'll be better prepared in the future.
Working up a BC with rail guns - should give me the range to stand-off and snipe them. Just need to work out the tank and speed so I can survive long enough to get to range.
Thanks for all the feedback folks. Appreciated. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8076
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 14:43:00 -
[15] - Quote
CaiJi Du wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:There is nothing wrong with that mission, you are doing it wrong. You only have to kill 7 or 8 cruiser sized ships (the ones with the Blackbird Hull forget the name), refrain from killing the ship with the Moa hull, blow up the repair station and leave. I believe you, and thank you, but... "Go to the site, destroy their entire security force, then destroy the repair outpost." Is the description misleading then? It does say I am required to destroy "their entire... force".
Rule #1 of EVE: Trust no one.
Rule #2 of EVE: Apply rule #1 to any description of gameplay or pop up provided by CCP.
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afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
321
|
Posted - 2014.09.08 14:56:00 -
[16] - Quote
CaiJi Du wrote:Working up a BC with rail guns - should give me the range to stand-off and snipe them. Just need to work out the tank and speed so I can survive long enough to get to range.
Thanks for all the feedback folks. Appreciated.
Fit a medium micro jump drive. Instant range dictation. |
Tolkaz Khamsi
Empire Reclamation Services
28
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Posted - 2014.09.08 18:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
Range dictation is key in missions, especially missions with a lot of jamming. One strategy for countering ECM jamming in Caldari/Guristas missions is to train up drones and/or FoF missiles. Even if you get jammed out, with drones or FoF at least you can put *some* DPS on the targets. Laser boats are generally not a great choice against Caldari hulls; missiles or rails/blasters are usually a better choice (antimatter or void/nulll ammo). When you have a lot of ECM on the field, clear out the jammers first whenever you can. Snipers are good for this kind of work, though you may need to hit at 60km+. Moas can do it, but it's hard and you can't deliver much dps at those ranges; Feroxes (rail-fit) and Drakes (heavy missiles) are better. If you have Amarr skills, a Harbinger is a good L3 mission ship, but it's suboptimal against Caldari because lasers only do EM/thermal damage. Harbies murder Sansha and Blood Raider rats, though.
HACs and command ships are obviously even better, but once you get to that level you're probably not worried about mission rats breaking your tank anyhow.
Heavy jamming missions are also good "bring a buddy" missions, because once you draw aggro, the other guy can clear out the jammers.
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CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.09 04:39:00 -
[18] - Quote
afkalt wrote:CaiJi Du wrote:Working up a BC with rail guns - should give me the range to stand-off and snipe them. Just need to work out the tank and speed so I can survive long enough to get to range.
Thanks for all the feedback folks. Appreciated. Fit a medium micro jump drive. Instant range dictation. The particular mission that started all this is Deadspace. You can't warp within in it. Will a MJD work in there?
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8086
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 04:46:00 -
[19] - Quote
CaiJi Du wrote:afkalt wrote:CaiJi Du wrote:Working up a BC with rail guns - should give me the range to stand-off and snipe them. Just need to work out the tank and speed so I can survive long enough to get to range.
Thanks for all the feedback folks. Appreciated. Fit a medium micro jump drive. Instant range dictation. The particular mission that started all this is Deadspace. You can't warp within in it. Will a MJD work in there?
Yes |
Carek Talen
Another Corp.
18
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Posted - 2014.09.09 08:20:00 -
[20] - Quote
Avoid heavy drones, too slow and awful tracking against small ships. Use mediums or, if you go the MJD way, sentries. |
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Kyoko Onzo
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.09.09 15:58:00 -
[21] - Quote
Your issue is a sp/ship issue, not a "mission is unfair" issue. You'll eventually get to a point in sp with a shiny ship that you'll be stuffing triggers in lvl 4 blockade out of boredom. And yea, you weren't prepared at all for the mission (I also never read ahead about what missions I was gonna do, but that was long ago and all the missions were stupid easy). Guristas also suck donkey nuts. Yup mediums/lights for cruiser sized rats and under, I pop frigates on my own (as it seems it's the frigs that kill drones). But yup, train up skills, get a better boat and you'll eventually be wondering why you ever thought that was so hard.
Seriously though, everything can't be easy "give me free stuff" mode. Pve missions are already mind numbing enough, need some challenge. |
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.09 16:49:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:CaiJi Du wrote:afkalt wrote:CaiJi Du wrote:Working up a BC with rail guns - should give me the range to stand-off and snipe them. Just need to work out the tank and speed so I can survive long enough to get to range.
Thanks for all the feedback folks. Appreciated. Fit a medium micro jump drive. Instant range dictation. The particular mission that started all this is Deadspace. You can't warp within in it. Will a MJD work in there? Yes Sadly, I've discovered I can't fit a MJD on a T1 BC - for now, not an option. :( |
afkalt
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
321
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Posted - 2014.09.09 17:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Why not? |
Sunrise Aigele
Pemberley Enterprises BadWrongFun
35
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Posted - 2014.09.09 17:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
I would imagine that it is a combination of middling or missing skills and the stiff fitting demands of MJDs relative to afterburners.
That said, MJDs are absolutely worth training and refitting for. |
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.09 18:01:00 -
[25] - Quote
The gospel according to EFT v2.23. Said I couldn't fit it to the Talos.
Haven't tried it in EVE yet, but the info says it can be fitted to a Combat Battle Cruiser, whatever that means... |
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.09 18:20:00 -
[26] - Quote
Keeping in mind this fit is specifically for handling Cut-Throat Competition...
Low 1 x Medium Ancillary Armor Repairer - Nanite Repair Paste 1 x Damage Control II 1 x Armor Kinetic Hardener I 1 x Armor Thermic Hardener I 1 x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Med 1 x Experimental 10MN Microwarpdrive I 1 x Sensor Booster II - Targeting Range Script 1 x Tracking Computer I - Optimal Range Script 1 x Medium Capacitor Booster II - Cap Booster 400
High 8 x 425mm Prototype Gauss Gun
Rigs 1 x Medium Processor Overclocking Unit I 1 x Medium Ancillary Current Router I 1 x Medium Hybrid Locus Coordinator I
Drones 'Integrated' Warrior
Stage 1: I land in the middle of the swarm, so first is the sprint to distance while tanking. This fit is cap-sustainable for up to 18 minutes, but I'm carrying enough cap booster for 5 (more than enough).
Stage 2: Once at about 100km, the enemy damage is easily handled. Won't need MWD, and rarely need reps. Cap stable with all 8 guns firing. Loaded with Iridium L I'll have Optimal 99+33 and 174 dps.
Stage 3: When down to 5 enemy I'll move in to about 40km, switch to Antimatter L and launch drones. To be cap stable at 34% I'll be firing only 7 guns, no sensor booster or tracking computer. Total dps now will be 321 with Optimal 38+28.
Comments? |
Kyoko Onzo
State War Academy Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2014.09.09 18:20:00 -
[27] - Quote
CaiJi Du wrote:The gospel according to EFT v2.23. Said I couldn't fit it to the Talos. Haven't tried it in EVE yet, but the info says it can be fitted to a Combat Battle Cruiser, whatever that means...
Talos is an Attack BC, the ones that are combat BCs are Myrmidon and Brutix (errr I believe Gallente is the Talos right?) |
Estella Osoka
Deep Void Merc Syndicate
470
|
Posted - 2014.09.09 21:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
or command ships. |
CaiJi Du
Ministry of War Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.09.10 01:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
Kyoko Onzo wrote:CaiJi Du wrote:The gospel according to EFT v2.23. Said I couldn't fit it to the Talos. Haven't tried it in EVE yet, but the info says it can be fitted to a Combat Battle Cruiser, whatever that means... Talos is an Attack BC, the ones that are combat BCs are Myrmidon and Brutix (errr I believe Gallente is the Talos right?)
...and...
Estella Osoka wrote:or command ships. So, no MJD for me and my Talos. |
Voxinian
40
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Posted - 2014.09.10 09:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Get a cheap Drake if you want to use MJD, it can do L3's just fine and lighter L4's too. THough a MJD is not really needed for missions at all. |
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