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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 8 post(s) |
Ssabat Thraxx
Dominion Tenebrarum Reverberation Project
809
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Posted - 2014.09.20 22:03:00 -
[1351] - Quote
Josef Djugashvilis wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Benny Ohu wrote:i'm making a post here against my better judgement
the point is that just because something isn't an exploit doesn't mean it's intended or desirable. arguing with 'it's in the game' doesn't mean anything. arguing 'it's in your favour, so you're only arguing for advantage over balance' is fallacy.
Thanks for your post Petition CCP to end the practice of corp hopping to avoid wardecs. Just complaining about corp hopping on the forums is probably a waste of time. Let us know how you get on.
Yeah, 62 pages of all of us basically saying the same thing, plus a few idjits that didnt read any previous posts before making their shiptoast.
62 pages. I'm done, guys. Every time I look in this thread I see something I want to counterpoint, but rly its the same old **** from all of us.
Goodbye thread. Thanks to everyone on both sides of the issue.
o/ \m/ O.o \m/ We may never never never come home but the magic that we'll feel is worth a lifetime. \m/ RIP Ronnie James Dio \m/ |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1742
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Posted - 2014.09.20 23:13:00 -
[1352] - Quote
Adolfus Shakor wrote:This thread is a pointless exercise! Their are too many ways for a person/corp to avoid a war-dec if they have no intention to fight back.
The current system as it stands fits in quite well with the risk vs reward ethos of eve, the aggressor pays their ISK with the risk that their intended targets have no intention of fighting back. The reward being finding a corp that fights back.
Here is a list of ways to avoid that war-dec
1) close the corp and open a new one. 2) Already have a number of corps open held by alts and move members to other corps as the need arrives. 3) Don't un-dock. 4) Find a wormhole and take an extended break from Hi-sec. 5) Make an alt and keep it in a NPC corp and use this. 6) Don't log in and play something else until the war is dropped.
I have been in corps where the whole member base has no combat skills, they can build and mine very well and this is what they enjoy doing, what keeps them logging into eve! Why are you so obsessed with going to war with a corp that can't/won't fight back? A little research into the corps your war-decking will tell you if your going to have a fight on your hands or not .
Stop brainlessly war-decking random small corps and then getting mad when they side step the war-deck problem solved.
tell me, what entitles your friends to play eve risk and combat free? why should i allow them ti mine and amass isk unmolested? Epic Space Cat |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1742
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Posted - 2014.09.20 23:35:00 -
[1353] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Oh you mean the other ways to "PvP" in areas of the game like market trading and mining?
Aside from the fact that in many cases there are more resources available than players collecting it which means that my mining a rock doesn't prevent you from mining a rock.
Or I could also go into an in-depth discussion on opportunity costs and alternate means to the same end. All of which, once again, are features in the game (either intentional or simply a desirable side effect) that allow players to keep themselves from being victims of "non-consensual PvP".
if you're mining you are affecting the market inspme way.
the devs even talk abou nonconsensual pvp. but really every time you undock you consent to pvp...hell every time you log in. hence why defensive modules exist. Epic Space Cat |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1742
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Posted - 2014.09.20 23:37:00 -
[1354] - Quote
Trixie Lawless wrote:Seneca Auran wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote: I'm not going to ask you for a citation on this because I know there isn't one. The surrender mechanic says, to me, that they could be taking them in a certain direction, much like tiericide and other gradual developments in EVE. Who knows, maybe it's on their list of things to do already.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=117249#post117249GM Karidor wrote:4) Corp recycling to evade war decs Not an exploit. Players are free to close and recreate corporations as they see fit due to the inconveniences usually involved in closing down a corp and the (miniscule) costs of founding a new one. Kaarous Aldurald wrote: The existence of the surrender mechanic displays otherwise.
The existence of the surrender mechanic displays the intent for corporations who actually have something to lose by disbanding to have a means of seeking an end to a war dec. It does not display an intent to force everyone, regardless of whether or not they have anything to lose, to indulge a war dec because EVE is all about integrity and nobility and rules of genteel honor. People can argue on this until they turn blue in the face, but a GM already made a statement on this from 2011. Three years and it has not changed. CCP does not feel dodging is an exploit. They know it's there, they know what's happening. It doesn't matter if you disagree or agree. This is their stance. Until they decide to change it, this stands. And with that I'm done with this thread. Best of luck to everyone when it comes to finding ways to enjoy the game. Fly safe (or not if you think flying safe is boring).
dec dodging is so legit that if you do it enough the gms will pay you a visit.
hey wait hold on... Epic Space Cat |
Seneca Auran
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2014.09.21 00:02:00 -
[1355] - Quote
Xuixien wrote: tell me, what entitles your friends to play eve risk and combat free? why should i allow them ti mine and amass isk unmolested?
the devs even talk abou nonconsensual pvp. but really every time you undock you consent to pvp...hell every time you log in. hence why defensive modules exist.
So who is stopping you? You are completely free to attack anyone you choose, at any time.
Xuixien wrote: dec dodging is so legit that if you do it enough the gms will pay you a visit.
hey wait hold on...
Says who? |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1742
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Posted - 2014.09.21 00:06:00 -
[1356] - Quote
Seneca Auran wrote:Xuixien wrote: dec dodging is so legit that if you do it enough the gms will pay you a visit.
hey wait hold on...
Says who?
um.... the devs.
maybe try reading the thread before you reply duder. Epic Space Cat |
Seneca Auran
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
33
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Posted - 2014.09.21 00:08:00 -
[1357] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Seneca Auran wrote:Xuixien wrote: dec dodging is so legit that if you do it enough the gms will pay you a visit.
hey wait hold on...
Says who? um.... the devs. maybe try reading the thread before you reply duder.
The only reference to a 'visit' from GM's was in regards to Alliance hopping to avoid war decs. And that was changed to a flat "Corporations are free to change alliances as they see fit at any time.".
And you still haven't told us who is stopping you from attacking anyone you want at any time. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6403
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Posted - 2014.09.21 00:09:00 -
[1358] - Quote
So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1742
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Posted - 2014.09.21 00:29:00 -
[1359] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs
back in the day i used that alliace...what was it called? dec shield?
that was really op and ccp got rid of it (more evidence that ccp doesnt like dec dodging) Epic Space Cat |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
202
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:20:00 -
[1360] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs back in the day i used that alliace...what was it called? dec shield? that was really op and ccp got rid of it (more evidence that ccp doesnt like dec dodging)
yup |
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5415
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:33:00 -
[1361] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Xuixien wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs back in the day i used that alliace...what was it called? dec shield? that was really op and ccp got rid of it (more evidence that ccp doesnt like dec dodging) yup
Actually, no straw clutching required. You could get out of a wardec in a matter of hours or less without having to even drop corp. CCP don't like easymode, so I suggest that if future changes to wardecs are made, you not be too surprised, and I would recommend against the casual dismissal of the possibility, given that it has happened before. Or did you choose to ignore Benny's post, the one with the good points, like so many of my own and others with good points have been ignored by your carebear ilk?
Once again, you're coming into a conversation that's well and truly halfway done, if not essentially finished already. If you have read the thread, and the points made in it, and constructed a point worth contributing in that it hasn't been brought up yet, then please, be my guest. But parroting dismissals and assertions that have already been made and addressed? Who are you that we need to repeat ourselves to you just because you can't be bothered reading, or getting involved with the discussion when it began? GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
93
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Posted - 2014.09.21 01:46:00 -
[1362] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs
Gotta be the drop and reform corp and declare 30-1 victory. Nothing pisses em off more! |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5416
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 01:52:00 -
[1363] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs Gotta be the drop and reform corp and declare 30-1 victory. Nothing pisses em off more!
If it's not on a war report, it never happened GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1742
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 03:11:00 -
[1364] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:Xuixien wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs back in the day i used that alliace...what was it called? dec shield? that was really op and ccp got rid of it (more evidence that ccp doesnt like dec dodging) yup
yes, citing examples of policy to gauge where policy makers ideology lay is totes grasping at straws Epic Space Cat |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:06:00 -
[1365] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:
dec dodging is so legit that if you do it enough the gms will pay you a visit.
hey wait hold on...
GM Karidor wrote: Game Masters C C P Alliance Likes received: 966 #70Posted: 2011.09.29 14:30
4) Corp recycling to evade war decs Not an exploit. Players are free to close and recreate corporations as they see fit due to the inconveniences usually involved in closing down a corp and the (miniscule) costs of founding a new one.
6) Alliance hopping to evade war decs. (edited Oct. 10th) Corporations are free to change alliances as they see fit at any time. This officially nullifies this notification.
GM Karidor | Senior Game Master
Not sure this could be any clearer, and nothing has been posted by staff which supersedes this.
WAI. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
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Hiply Rustic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:07:00 -
[1366] - Quote
double post Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
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Angeal MacNova
LankTech
202
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:12:00 -
[1367] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:Angeal MacNova wrote:Xuixien wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:So what is everyone's favorite way to dodge wardecs back in the day i used that alliace...what was it called? dec shield? that was really op and ccp got rid of it (more evidence that ccp doesnt like dec dodging) yup yes, citing examples of policy to gauge where policy makers ideology lay is totes grasping at straws
GM Karidor wrote: Game Masters C C P Alliance Likes received: 966 #70Posted: 2011.09.29 14:30
4) Corp recycling to evade war decs Not an exploit. Players are free to close and recreate corporations as they see fit due to the inconveniences usually involved in closing down a corp and the (miniscule) costs of founding a new one.
6) Alliance hopping to evade war decs. (edited Oct. 10th) Corporations are free to change alliances as they see fit at any time. This officially nullifies this notification.
GM Karidor | Senior Game Master
Clearly this isn't clear enough. Maybe they need to include pictures.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
93
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:30:00 -
[1368] - Quote
Angeal MacNova wrote:
GM Karidor | Senior Game Master
Clearly this isn't clear enough. Maybe they need to include pictures. [/quote]
How to manual or it never happened. |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1743
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:39:00 -
[1369] - Quote
you guys need to research dec shield and then youllunderstand why your out of context 2011 quote is meaningless.
theres a lot of reading for you to catch up on. dont worry, i wont hold my breath that you actually do so
ps: gms =! devs Epic Space Cat |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
93
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 05:45:00 -
[1370] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:you guys need to research dec shield and then youllunderstand why your out of context 2011 quote is meaningless. theres a lot of reading for you to catch up on. dont worry, i wont hold my breath that you actually do so ps: gms =! devs
Except that CCP explicitly stated that dropping corp to avoid wardeccs is not an exploit, and is perfectly acceptable. Further, they have not taken any adverse action after years of people consistently using the tactic. That's a pretty strong indication that they find it acceptable. |
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Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1743
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:49:00 -
[1371] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Xuixien wrote:you guys need to research dec shield and then youllunderstand why your out of context 2011 quote is meaningless. theres a lot of reading for you to catch up on. dont worry, i wont hold my breath that you actually do so ps: gms =! devs Except that CCP explicitly stated that dropping corp to avoid wardeccs is not an exploit, and is perfectly acceptable. Further, they have not taken any adverse action after years of people consistently using the tactic. That's a pretty strong indication that they find it acceptable.
theres a reason dec shield corp was called "rule reversal" and theres a reason its not active anymore. seriously, go read. Epic Space Cat |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6404
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Posted - 2014.09.21 05:54:00 -
[1372] - Quote
the (miniscule) costs of forming a new corp, huh
isk sink? ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Xuixien
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
1743
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 06:10:00 -
[1373] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:the (miniscule) costs of forming a new corp, huh
isk sink?
coro creation fees are so small they arent even a factor in the economy.
it should cost isk to join and leave a corp (administration fees) or close a corp and a lot more to createa corp. Epic Space Cat |
Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local Break-A-Wish Foundation
1666
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:41:00 -
[1374] - Quote
If it cost as much to form a corp as it did to declare war on one (50m) that would be a reasonable balance without introducing a major cost barrier for newer players trying to format their own corp |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
174
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 06:47:00 -
[1375] - Quote
Xuixien wrote:you guys need to research dec shield and then youllunderstand why your out of context 2011 quote is meaningless. theres a lot of reading for you to catch up on. dont worry, i wont hold my breath that you actually do so ps: gms =! devs
When...and if...you can cite (and you can't) a superceding quote from the only source that matters...aka CCP...then and only then will you you be able to successfully assert that his quote is meaningless. Until then, I'm not the one who needs to catch up.
CPP decides policy, that quote is the most current policy declaration.
And of course you are right, gms are not devs. Devs code, GMs manage policy. Now try not to be upset. Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
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Solecist Project
I'm So Meta Even This Acronym
10115
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:52:00 -
[1376] - Quote
*points at Veers for being a coward and a liar* Meta Portrait: umm, looks like youre 'busy', young love, sexual and sensual, soft&warm, OMG naked???, are you kissin or blo..., so much feels, most sexually suggestive pic I've seen. I make it feel real... The universe ... is sexy ...... https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5036238#post5036238 |
Gevlon Goblin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
298
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:57:00 -
[1377] - Quote
The main issue is not addressed: people drop a corp because that particular corp is worthless. He might value the 0% tax, so creates a new one, but that particular corp has no value to him, so he isn't motivated to try to defend it.
The mantra is "risk vs reward", but being in a highsec corp has no PvE reward. The solution is to let corps have something worth fighting for. Otherwise people have no reason to fight for that corp, so they won't. If you try to make them fight by some mechanic proposed in this thread, they just won't join any more corps and eat the NPC tax.
I'd like to stress that "make NPC tax 50%" is a bad answer, since it still don't make corp X more valuable than corp Y. The solution would be something that corps could own, making them special, worth fighting for. My blog: greedygoblin.blogspot.com |
Hiply Rustic
Aliastra Gallente Federation
174
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:05:00 -
[1378] - Quote
-Full-on carebears who want immunity to non-consensual PvP, forget it. This is EvE and there is no place outside a station (or newbros in rookie-space) that should be safe. Thankfully, there isn't.
-Hisec gankbears who want consequence-free non-consensual PvP at your whim, forget it. There are mechanics for placing you in a position to have consequences to engaging in non-consensual PvP. Deal with it. You get to force PvP upon anyone you want, let that be enough. If someone wants to run away and hide they get to do that, you don't get to keep the fish in a little barrel to shoot. Oh well.
FFS people, at the end of the day anyone can shoot at anyone...
The mechanic exists, and not as an exploit, to decdodge by dropping out of or rerolling a corp. Nothing from any CCP resource has said otherwise, and this threadnaught has had zero reaction from the powers that be.
Ralph King-Griffin wrote: "Eve deliberately excludes the stupid and the weak willied." EvE: Only the strong-willied need apply.
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
72
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:06:00 -
[1379] - Quote
Quote:
Wardecs are an intended part of the game. You really think they exist for nothing? You have the ability to declare war on someone, but, well, nothing happens. Sorry bout your 50M y0
Just like folding a corp is. Go on, read the CCP'S official stance again- it's a legit tactic.
Quote:
You have NOT read this thread, not even like 1 page back where I listed numerous and EASY ways to dodge a war that I myself have done like 8 or 9 times. It's ridiculous to assert that wardecs "force hiseccers to fold their corps." Thats a really STUPID way of dealing with a wardec.
tl'dr folding your corp because of a wardec is both stupid and unnecessary.
I know about the ways to avoid combat in a wardec, those are irrelevant. They don't want to do any of those and there's no way your angry whining is going to make them. So, instead of forcing the hiseccers to fold their corp, they should be given an equal way of nullifying the wardec with 50 mil and a few mouse clicks.
Also a corp should only be able to participate in one war at a time.
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Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
125
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:43:00 -
[1380] - Quote
Gevlon Goblin wrote:The main issue is not addressed: people drop a corp because that particular corp is worthless. He might value the 0% tax, so creates a new one, but that particular corp has no value to him, so he isn't motivated to try to defend it.
The mantra is "risk vs reward", but being in a highsec corp has no PvE reward. The solution is to let corps have something worth fighting for. Otherwise people have no reason to fight for that corp, so they won't. If you try to make them fight by some mechanic proposed in this thread, they just won't join any more corps and eat the NPC tax.
I'd like to stress that "make NPC tax 50%" is a bad answer, since it still don't make corp X more valuable than corp Y. The solution would be something that corps could own, making them special, worth fighting for. POCO, POS, Hangars. All of these are useful enough to a corp, but could be more useful. POS should have more benefit vs. station, barely a point in owning one right now.
The 50% reduction would not just be NPC tax, but would be a 50% reduction in all forms of income. Mining cycles would be reduced similarly.
This makes corp X more valuable than corp Y, where X corp is player-owned and Y corp is NPC owned. Why does one player corp need to offer more value than another player corp? The issue here comes down to wars being pointless, not player corps lacking distinction. By giving players POCO, POS, Hangars, and double the income - at the risk of being wardecced and not being able to nullify it - you bring back the mantra of "risk vs reward". |
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