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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11174
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:41:00 -
[331] - Quote
I idled in E1's bonus room channel simply because I happened to be invited there for some odd reason over a year ago. I never interacted with anyone in there beyond the first time when it was more of "huh what's this place about?", getting an explanation, and switching to another channel because I'm not really interested in listening to people with bad singing voices. I prefer listening to people read bad fan fiction as a ransom/punishment, personally.
This dumb guilt by association crap would have netted me a permaban for no reason other than accepting an invite and not bothering to leave the channel the last time I decided my chat window was overcrowded with dumb channels. Then I'd have to wait a week or two to figure out why I got banned and spend another 2-4 weeks appealing my case, all because somebody was triggerhappy with permabans over some drama, even though they don't give a rat's ass about actual sociopaths like a few in this thread have discussed experiences with.
The beautiful irony is that so many of those in this thread drowning in their ~righteous indignation~ over the monstrous act of scamming someone and humiliating them on a TS3 that they can leave at will will turn around and parrot BS platitudes like "your actions have consequences" in response to those discussing such incidents, because it's all right and good to intimidate people and threaten personal harm in retaliation for losing in a game. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Haedonism Bot
Revolutionary Front
1366
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:43:00 -
[332] - Quote
Hey everybody, I didn't get banned (yet), I've just been taking a normal seasonal break from EVE. I'll be back soon and ready to help carry the torch for my fallen comrades.
I know you were all worried about me, just wanted to set your minds at ease. www.everevolutionaryfront.blogspot.com
Psychotic Monk for CSM9 |
S'No Flake
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
37
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Posted - 2014.09.11 12:43:00 -
[333] - Quote
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote: I was told by a miner that was popped that he would find me, enter my house with a rifle and then shoot me in the head. FYI, it was a Ret under 30M. So yeah, knives cut both ways. (Oh he also threatened any and all immediate family) So my point of this is, people say a lot of things, but trying to group everyone together as on aspect is just wrong. I like to eat pie, cake is tolerable. But you don't see me trying to remove ice cream. Once I rode a pony.
Then you should understand why CCP doesn't draw a line and leave it as is. This way they can hand some temp bans to some people and not permaban everyone :D |
Dave Stark
6919
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Posted - 2014.09.11 12:43:00 -
[334] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:Dave Stark wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Dave Stark wrote:
that's not ambiguous in the slightest. it simply says nothing. CCP want their cake and eat it.
I'll elaborate later, i have to get ready for work.
I'm sorry, Dave. There is no work. EVE is real. I wish that were true. Anyway, falcon is right in the fact that there needs to be flexibility. of course he is. however if you want people to follow a set of rules, you actually need to tell people what the rules are. this is a game built around a universe with a totally different set of rules, as such if you want people to work within a different ruleset you have to lay out those rules so people can work within them. I'm not disputing CCP's right to ban people, but if you don't want to end up banning half your players [i'm going to point out that "half your players" is exaggeration, but people are dumb so i feel i have to point it out] every few months because they broke the rules.... tell them what the rules are so they know what not to do. I'll be honest, the e1 thing, and now this, kinda put a dampener on this game for me. prior to the whole e1 debacle i was rather interested in the more underhand parts of the game. now i just look at it and think "shooting red crosses might be boring, but i'd rather get bored and quit than have 5 mins of fun and get banned" at least if eve bores to death it's the lesser evil of getting banned. It'd be nice to have a bit more fun in eve, but being banned for what attracted me to eve... not exactly a motivation to have more fun in eve and get involved with other players. So, it's ok if dumb people are scammed and humiliated but it's not ok if dumb people are banned because they can't figure out when to stop?
participants of the bonus room were never banned, were they?
i should clarify, i mean participants as in the people embarrasing themselves in the bonus room. |
Anal Canal
The Conference Elite CODE.
212
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:45:00 -
[335] - Quote
Thine eyes I love, and they, as pitying me, Knowing thy heart torment me with disdain, Have put on black, and loving mourners be, Looking with pretty ruth upon my pain. And truly not the morning sun of heaven Better becomes the grey cheeks of the east, Nor that full star that ushers in the even Doth half that glory to the sober west As those two mourning eyes become thy face. O let it then as well beseem thy heart To mourn for me, since mourning doth thee grace, And suit thy pity like in every part. Then will I swear beauty herself is black, And all they foul that thy complexion lack. The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1235
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:45:00 -
[336] - Quote
Burneddi wrote:Asking someone to sing a song or you'll pod them isn't harassment.
Coaxing someone to come on your comms, then blackmailing them Well up to here they are the same thing.
Burneddi wrote:and repeatedly attacking their real life persona is harassment. And as for this, did people's real identities ever come into the bonus rooms? I've only listened to one fully and it was character names all around. [witty image] - Stream |
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite CODE.
214
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Posted - 2014.09.11 12:45:00 -
[337] - Quote
Thine eyes I love, and they, as pitying me, Knowing thy heart torment me with disdain, Have put on black, and loving mourners be, Looking with pretty ruth upon my pain. And truly not the morning sun of heaven Better becomes the grey cheeks of the east, Nor that full star that ushers in the even Doth half that glory to the sober west As those two mourning eyes become thy face. O let it then as well beseem thy heart To mourn for me, since mourning doth thee grace, And suit thy pity like in every part. Then will I swear beauty herself is black, And all they foul that thy complexion lack. The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á |
CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909
The Conference Elite CODE.
214
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:48:00 -
[338] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote: I was told by a miner that was popped that he would find me, enter my house with a rifle and then shoot me in the head. FYI, it was a Ret under 30M. So yeah, knives cut both ways. (Oh he also threatened any and all immediate family) So my point of this is, people say a lot of things, but trying to group everyone together as on aspect is just wrong. I like to eat pie, cake is tolerable. But you don't see me trying to remove ice cream. Once I rode a pony.
Then you should understand why CCP doesn't draw a line and leave it as is. This way they can hand some temp bans to some people and not permaban everyone :D
And I guess this is why I am glad that my building has an armed doorman. I mean, heaven forbid that people steal pixels to get banned rather than something that would involve physical in life violent threats. The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á |
Anal Canal
The Conference Elite CODE.
214
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:48:00 -
[339] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:CALDARI CITIZEN 14330909 wrote: I was told by a miner that was popped that he would find me, enter my house with a rifle and then shoot me in the head. FYI, it was a Ret under 30M. So yeah, knives cut both ways. (Oh he also threatened any and all immediate family) So my point of this is, people say a lot of things, but trying to group everyone together as on aspect is just wrong. I like to eat pie, cake is tolerable. But you don't see me trying to remove ice cream. Once I rode a pony.
Then you should understand why CCP doesn't draw a line and leave it as is. This way they can hand some temp bans to some people and not permaban everyone :D
And I guess this is why I am glad that my building has an armed doorman. I mean, heaven forbid that people steal pixels to get banned rather than something that would involve physical in life violent threats. The Artist Formerly Known As AC.-á The-áterminal end of the digestive system.-á |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9656
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:49:00 -
[340] - Quote
Crumplecorn wrote:And as for this, did people's real identities ever come into the bonus rooms? I've only listened to one fully and it was character names all around.
You are forgetting the salient point.
Butthurt now constitutes "real life harm". "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
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Sabriz Adoudel
Deliberate Destruction of Spaceships
3571
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:50:00 -
[341] - Quote
Andski wrote:I idled in E1's bonus room channel simply because I happened to be invited there for some odd reason over a year ago. I never interacted with anyone in there beyond the first time when it was more of "huh what's this place about?", getting an explanation, and switching to another channel because I'm not really interested in listening to people with bad singing voices. I prefer listening to people read bad fan fiction as a ransom/punishment, personally.
This dumb guilt by association crap would have netted me a permaban for no reason other than accepting an invite and not bothering to leave the channel the last time I decided my chat window was overcrowded with dumb channels. Then I'd have to wait a week or two to figure out why I got banned and spend another 2-4 weeks appealing my case, all because somebody was triggerhappy with permabans over some drama, even though they don't give a rat's ass about actual sociopaths like a few in this thread have discussed experiences with.
I'm still not convinced that these bans have anything to do with E1. There's too many false positives.
Disgusted by CCP's stance of banning people for 'RL abuse' while tolerating out-of-game threats of violence made in the EVE client and forums. |
S'No Flake
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
38
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:52:00 -
[342] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I'm going to summarise what I know.
I know that making people sing on coms for ransom is allowed, because Sky Fighters did it to a CCP dev just last year with no consequences.
I know that people have been banned for similar acts of ransoming in the style of the much debated Bonus Room, under the heading of RL harassment.
I know that RL harassment via someone's RL email containing carefully dug-up personal information about a real person in the game and including threats against named RL family members is allowed, because CCP did nothing about it when exactly that happened to me.
So....
Where does that leave us? What assurance do I have, playing this game, that some weirdo isn't actually going to hunt down my family and hurt them because I removed his space pixels from his possession, CCP?
You have to understand something... A lot of things are changing... every day, month, year... Laws are changing too. When that stuff happened to you, probably CCP didn't have a precedence... they didn't have a 'law' for it.
When they temp-banned mittani, maybe not many people were doing/saying stupid stuff. Maybe now, it's much worse than back then so, they made the punishment stronger.
I'll give you an example... When i was in my 3rd year at university, i did some stupid stuff. Back then i believed it was cool ... i was young :P All that thing got me suspended for two weeks. There was no law for that, police wasn't involved, etc.
If somebody would do the same thing today, after 12 years, in the worst case, they would end up in jail ... in a happy case, they will be expelled.
They were wrong, back then when they sent me home for 2 weeks or they are wrong today when they send people to jail for the same thing? |
Mira Robinson
119
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:56:00 -
[343] - Quote
I guess taking your griefing to a third party client possibly being a bannable offense just chaps your ass, doesn't it?
I remember when ganking was ransoms and wrecks and loot.
Now it's about the tears. And the increasingly questionable means of obtaining them. Did you think CCP would never take notice?
And I'm not a complete carebear. I'm a regular reader and fan of Minerbumping. Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.
It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11178
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:57:00 -
[344] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:You have to understand something... A lot of things are changing... every day, month, year... Laws are changing too. When that stuff happened to you, probably CCP didn't have a precedence... they didn't have a 'law' for it.
CCP doesn't work on precedent, and things like doxxing for intimidation tend to be pretty cut and dried in online communities because it's toxic as ****. They don't need a precedent to say "whoa this is some ****** up ****", drop the banhammer and advise the other party to take it to law enforcement. There's a reason why something that'll get you a two week ban can get another guy a permanent/indefinite ban, and it all has to do with context, prior violations, and other such things. Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6118
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 12:59:00 -
[345] - Quote
Andski wrote:S'No Flake wrote:You have to understand something... A lot of things are changing... every day, month, year... Laws are changing too. When that stuff happened to you, probably CCP didn't have a precedence... they didn't have a 'law' for it. CCP doesn't work on precedent, and things like doxxing for intimidation tend to be pretty cut and dried in online communities because it's toxic as ****. There's a reason why something that'll get you a two week ban can get another guy a permanent/indefinite ban, and it all has to do with context, prior violations, and other such things.
And in this case we have people who have done nothing wrong being outright permanently banned because they happened to be marginally associated with the people actually doing the thing. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Miles Parabellum
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Brothers of Tangra
48
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:01:00 -
[346] - Quote
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:I find it kinda funny how people are still trying to sell this psychopatic behavior as the regular scam. He had no assets, no point in mocking him any further. Let him sing a song or two afterwards, fine. However dragging on for hours is outright psychopathic and doesnt add anything to the game.
I am actually amused that so many people are like "hurr durr but nao game is not many worth of time for me, I fell of so unattracted towarish" and I am actually thinking if it might be better for eve to just have them leave. I mean scammers will be there forever, sure, and thats cool. Just a bit less people with problems distinguishing between in character harrassment and real life harassment when everything in-game wise is taken. Some people obviously can not fathom the difference between destroying a ship in combat, a suicide gank,the regular scam and the teasing and harassment of the player behind the avatar for hours long when the scam is already over (all assets and ISK taken).
I find people asking for "the line" kinda creepy tbh. I am not sure if it is intentional trolling or the attitude for morality has gone downhill that far that they are really not able to tell the difference where the game starts to fade into reallife.
Well written. Especially the last paragraph.
This thread will probably live for quite a while yet, so I'll check in regularly to sample some sociopath/griefer tears. Those... Cumbledrorn ones are particularly delightful. |
Tora Bushido
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
1214
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:04:00 -
[347] - Quote
CCP Falcon wrote:Cut and dried, that's all we have to say on the matter. Thats probably why Eve has these issues. If you have rules, they should be clear to everyone. Ignoring this wont fix the big problem. Unclear rules give random actions.
YOU EITHER LOVE US OR WE HATE YOU - ADAPT OR DIE - DELETE THE WEAK
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Amyclas Amatin
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
328
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:05:00 -
[348] - Quote
I play this game to ruin YOUR game.
Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Mira Robinson
119
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:11:00 -
[349] - Quote
Amyclas Amatin wrote:I play this game to ruin YOUR game.
Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress. Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress.
Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game. Earlier today, the Dixon Mining Guild and the Butz Manufacturing Corporation formed a coalition.
It's hard to tell if there is a light at the end of the tunnel for the Dixon-Butz Alliance. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4852
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:12:00 -
[350] - Quote
Mira Robinson wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:I play this game to ruin YOUR game.
Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress. Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress. Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.
Okay, no problem GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
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Clara Pond
Never Not Snazzy
92
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Posted - 2014.09.11 13:12:00 -
[351] - Quote
Dave Stark wrote:participants of the bonus room were never banned, were they?
To my knowledge Sohkar, who participated in the bonus room and made repeated RL threats and racist and homophobic slurs on teamspeak, was not banned no. He's the kind of guy CCP don't mind having in the community. |
Amyclas Amatin
Northstar Cabal Tactical Narcotics Team
328
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:15:00 -
[352] - Quote
Mira Robinson wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:I play this game to ruin YOUR game.
Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress. Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress. Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game.
Sounds as if we're like real-life predators who lure victims with goodies.
We happen to be eve predators who lure victims with goodies, we need to know exactly when the fourth wall is broken and our actions become unacceptable. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
Jin Kugu
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.09.11 13:16:00 -
[353] - Quote
S'No Flake wrote:Well, you have two options then :) 1. leave now 2. try to find where the line is and CCP will make you leave. In your place, i would choose 2. This will help out other players avoiding stepping on the same line
Maybe these people should be banned for whatever happend vov
All I know is that ccp should be done with shady community management. Somer was handled clearly, why can't this be done in a similar fashion?
Instead we have CCP Falcon insulting people and mass indefinte bans without explanation.
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FleetWarp Ichoriya
Federal Defense Union Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.09.11 13:17:00 -
[354] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Mira Robinson wrote:Amyclas Amatin wrote:I play this game to ruin YOUR game.
Of course there needs to be a line. We never know which teamspeak conversation would push you to your breaking point and cause undue torment and distress. Don't lure victims to TS = No chance of undue torment and distress. Sounds simple to me. Keep it 100% in-game. Okay, no problem
No body is arguing that singransom is not legit. However dragging this on for hours when its already over with all assets and ISK taken that is not legit. Stay within the game, get all assets and ISK of the Avatar and stop after that! Its over then, you simply can not get more money - there is no point in going any further. Everything after that point is just exploiting the naive or weaker mind of the player behind the avatar without any possibility of gaining and advantage or ingameitem and does have nothing to do with the game anymore! |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1238
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:18:00 -
[355] - Quote
Miles Parabellum wrote:This thread will probably live for quite a while yet, so I'll check in regularly to sample some sociopath/griefer tears. Those... Cumbledrorn ones are particularly delightful. Trying to sidestep the vastly superior understanding of the situation possessed by those who disagree with you by declaring their posts tears is just par for the course, but oh. Been a while since someone mentioned me by name while crying about what's been posted. Gives me a warm nostalgic feeling. Reminds me of the good old days, back when I didn't spend so much time rambling about the good old days. Thanks for that. [witty image] - Stream |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9661
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:18:00 -
[356] - Quote
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote: No body is arguing that singransom is not legit.
Mira Robinson just did.
Why does your side feel compelled to lie about literally everything? "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
Clean Up Local 2014.-á |
Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
295
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Posted - 2014.09.11 13:20:00 -
[357] - Quote
Black Pedro wrote:I am not sure what your point here is. No one he is arguing that CCP can't do whatever it wants, define harassment however it wants, as well as ban anyone for any reason. The current discussion in this thread is that the way these rules are being enforced now is not clear, appears to be internally inconsistent, and is causing confusion, especially for those who have just been banned without even knowing which of their actions have crossed CCP's line. You can take a look at Erotica 1's commentary if you need to get up to speed on the current discussion: https://imgur.com/EtfsmXj
I did read it and all I still see is an individual arguing technicalities about the intent of the "bonus room" withotu acknowledging that some people might actually get butthurt IRL about the ordeal and think it was harassment.
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:Crumplecorn wrote:Adrie Atticus wrote:If this behaviour cannot be done to a total stranger on the street and it would cause someone to contact the authorities, then the alleged violations are not part of human social interaction First response: LOL Second response (after composing myself): This standard would damn far more carebears than gankers, see: minerbumping.com. You forgot, they are held to a different set of rules, though. That's why Guy I Bumped #9 last month can get away with telling me "I am going to find you and cut your brakes, and laugh when I hear about how you died."
And you have reported all these incidents to CCP? If not, please specify why.
You cannot argue double standards and vague enforcement if you don't do your part to make sure that those infractions are handled through CCP to make a better basis for larger incidents. |
Crumplecorn
Eve Cluster Explorations
1238
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:21:00 -
[358] - Quote
FleetWarp Ichoriya wrote:No body is arguing that singransom is not legit Falcon's sermon makes that debateable. [witty image] - Stream |
Kristalll
The Dark Space Initiative Scary Wormhole People
346
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:22:00 -
[359] - Quote
Rhiannon Marius wrote: As long as it touches nothing outside the game and is not continuous. I'm fine. There is that pesky continuous harassment thing that a bonus room may touch on. Thus the grey area.
It touches voice comms, which happen to be out of game, but could be done in EVE voice (eve voice jsut doesn't have a record function) and it happens over the course of one instance.
GÇ£Die tryingGÇ¥ is the proudest human thing. |
Dave Stark
6921
|
Posted - 2014.09.11 13:22:00 -
[360] - Quote
Clara Pond wrote:Dave Stark wrote:participants of the bonus room were never banned, were they? To my knowledge Sohkar, who participated in the bonus room and made repeated RL threats and racist and homophobic slurs on teamspeak, was not banned no. He's the kind of guy CCP don't mind having in the community.
consistent with other evidence that nothing is done about real life threats, guess the line isn't there. |
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