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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Gregor Parud
635
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Posted - 2014.09.12 17:56:00 -
[931] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game.
It's in game, against the in game character and persona and as such it's fine. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4981
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 17:57:00 -
[932] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game.
Really reaching for straws today aren't you Beers. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
evepal
Scholar of Rationality
57
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 17:59:00 -
[933] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:What about no actions? What about guilt-by-association bans?
Please post evidence where this has occurred.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:
Anecdotal evidence doesn't provide basis for me to re-evaluate my opinion.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:If you are cool with those, you missed a key link to the communist manifesto...
Ok.
Remiel Pollard wrote:LUMINOUS SPIRIT wrote:evepal is undefeated, standing tall at 3-0 and counting.
He will be moving up to the winner's bracket at this pace. EVE Forum Alt Circlejerk Detected.
Nice ad hominem. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
67
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:01:00 -
[934] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game. Really reaching for straws today aren't you Beers.
Not at all. I feel that this kind of stuff leads to the insults etc... that the gankers are complaining about. If they would cut the goading out, 90% of the situations would never escalate to the "needs petition" level. Play the game to accomplish things in the game, not to see how angry/upset you can make people. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20747
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:02:00 -
[935] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game. It's in game, against the in game character and persona and as such it's fine. It's also a tradition/meme that spans many MMO's.
The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4981
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:03:00 -
[936] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:I feel...
Well there's your problem right there. Objective policy moderation cannot be based on feelings. Especially yours. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Marc Callan
Nuclear Manhattan Limited
469
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:04:00 -
[937] - Quote
Wheaton's Law, people. It's four words. "Don't be a ****."
It's not difficult to understand, and it's not that high a bar to clear, either. I keep saying this, but if CCP is forced to actually make a binding definition in that regard, it's probably going to leave a sizable chunk of the EVE player base screaming about how restrictive it is. And they'll only have themselves to blame. "We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful about what we pretend to be." - Kurt Vonnegurt |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11231
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:05:00 -
[938] - Quote
"prove you were doxxed by dumping the evidence, evidence that includes your personal information" ~ evepal and his other alts Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4982
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:07:00 -
[939] - Quote
Andski wrote:"prove you were doxxed by dumping the evidence, evidence that includes your personal information" ~ evepal and his other alts
I noticed this myself, hence why I mentioned in a previous response to him that as far as I know, he could well be the doxer in question using a new alt. The one that hit me had six toons at the time, all bazaar-bought. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11232
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:07:00 -
[940] - Quote
i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence
i guess he was told he was special as a child, like so many others, and this gives him the notion that his opinion is so important that he must be swayed with concrete proof Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20747
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:08:00 -
[941] - Quote
Andski wrote:i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence
i guess he was told he was special as a child, and this gives him that notion Generation Y poster child?
The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
67
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:09:00 -
[942] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I feel... Well there's your problem right there. Objective policy moderation cannot be based on feelings. Especially yours.
Good derail. Objective moderation can be based on disallowing comments that serve no purpose other than to further inflame already upset people for the sole purpose of getting them to make angry comments which can then publicly be posted to humiliate them. Ganking, scamming, etc...fine. Do it to your heart's content. And feel free to reach out to the victim and explain what you did, and teach him a new aspect of gameplay, if he is receptive. But there is no reason to comment just to **** him off more, and see if you can drive him to things like racial epithets, real life threats, etc.... that are against the game rules. It's not rocket science, it's just common decency. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4982
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:09:00 -
[943] - Quote
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:Andski wrote:i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence
i guess he was told he was special as a child, and this gives him that notion Generation Y poster child?
I never got this generational thing. All I know is I was born in the 80s, and nothing good came out of the 80s. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Ramona McCandless
The McCandless Clan
7001
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:09:00 -
[944] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:There is a perfect example of the kind of reprehensible conduct I'm talking about at https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=199310&p=27After using bumping to trap a freighter, and the pilot choosing to self destruct rather than pay a ransom, the pilot came on the Eve forums to complain about the bumping mechanic and state that he was quitting the game. Instead of the ganker just being happy with the loot and moving, he came to the forum to rub it in with the comment "Can i haz ur stuffs?. The sole purpose is to further antagonize an already upset person for "tear harvesting" purposes. That's the kind of garbage that serves no purpose, leads to the kind of insults, etc... that we would like to avoid, and should have no place in the game.
reprehensible 1 adj bringing or deserving severe rebuke or censure Synonyms: condemnable, criminal, deplorable, vicious wrong contrary to conscience or morality or law
Conscience - Not required for EvE. Infact, it gets in the way. No matter who you are or what you do, you will ignore it from time to time in this game. Everyone does. The OP, player-Devs, Veers, Chirba, Bill Paxton, Me, everyone.
Morality - See above
Law - Criminal is a perfectly normal andacceptable career path in this game. It is even advertised as oen you can choose.
Therefore, yes, reprehensible, but it is a perfectly normal part of EvE.
If you dont agree, well, tough, you're wrong. "Many have joined the battle, many have survived the tests and trials, but countless have fallen because they weren't the sharpest, the fastest thinking, the most devious, the most ruthless or most intelligent. -áLog in and Compete!"-á- CCP Falcon
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Josef Djugashvilis
2513
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:11:00 -
[945] - Quote
Andski wrote:i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence
i guess he was told he was special as a child, like so many others, and this gives him the notion that his opinion is so important that he must be swayed with concrete proof
If you do not tell your children that they are indeed special, you are doing it wrong. This is not a signature. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11232
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:12:00 -
[946] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:I never got this generational thing. All I know is I was born in the 80s, and nothing good came out of the 80s.
the internet
oh wait Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4982
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:12:00 -
[947] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:I feel... Well there's your problem right there. Objective policy moderation cannot be based on feelings. Especially yours. Good derail. Objective moderation can be based on disallowing comments that serve no purpose other than to further inflame already upset people for the sole purpose of getting them to make angry comments which can then publicly be posted to humiliate them. Ganking, scamming, etc...fine. Do it to your heart's content. And feel free to reach out to the victim and explain what you did, and teach him a new aspect of gameplay, if he is receptive. But there is no reason to comment just to **** him off more, and see if you can drive him to things like racial epithets, real life threats, etc.... that are against the game rules. It's not rocket science, it's just common decency.
Oh Beers, your whole spiel is based on an assumption of the purpose. Your premise is broken as a result, thereby making your conclusion irrelevant.
Fact of the matter is, there isn't a qq post that goes by on these forums without a 'can i haz your stuff' comment thrown in by someone. If it wasn't someone that did gank him, it would have been someone who had nothing to do with. What then Beers?
And I don't see you getting up in arms about the venom dripping from LS's comments. Come on Mr White Knight Forum Warrior, go to town on that ****. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
evepal
Scholar of Rationality
58
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:14:00 -
[948] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:That wasn't noted at all. I have the evidence right here. Showing it to you would endanger ongoing police investigations. As far as I know, you're the person who doxxed me on an alt.
Therefore, as we can't access the evidence, it remains anecdotal, for the reasons stated prior.
Remiel Pollard wrote:Despite that, are you willing to bet the safety of people you care about on the chance that we're making this **** up? Are you willing to trivialise our experiences?
Are you willing for people who harass in game, to continue doing so? Man, appeal to emotions are fun and a great logical fallacy.
Remiel Pollard wrote:I don't give much of a toss whether you think I'm making **** up or not tbh, who the **** are you that it matters? CCP have the evidence as well, I gave them all of it when I filed both petitions. That's what matters to me. My point, and my entire point, was that it was posted for everyone to see earlier in the year, and ignored, and I get to tell THOSE people, I told you so. You weren't there, so I'm not telling you. And I'm also not answering to you. Capiche?
You're answering me with this reply, and continue to do so later. If you don't care what I think, please just ignore me. I'm glad that you've noted it though. Ignoring an opposing view is a sign of irrational discussion.
Here's an opinionated statement of my own to make, that I feel is apt to the discussion. It's interesting that the victim of harassment, wouldn't want to see that problem attempted to be solved. Certainly when only anecdotal evidence can be given. |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11234
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:16:00 -
[949] - Quote
evepal wrote:Here's an opinionated statement of my own to make, that I feel is apt to the discussion. It's interesting that the victim of harassment, wouldn't want to see that problem attempted to be solved. Certainly when only anecdotal evidence can be given.
maybe you should explain how showing you anything is going to help solve the problem
hint: it won't Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4983
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:17:00 -
[950] - Quote
See, I can play that game too. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
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Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20747
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:18:00 -
[951] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Fact of the matter is, there isn't a qq post that goes by on these forums without a 'can i haz your stuff' comment thrown in by someone. Speaking of which, Veers, can I have your stuff when you finally realise that you don't actually like Eve, just the premise of Eve?
I'll even cover the cost of fumigating it The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
voetius
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
264
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:20:00 -
[952] - Quote
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:evepal wrote:Feyd Rautha Harkonnen wrote:Hai space lawyer! Please contrast your above links with the following ones... This. Thisand recently... This. I welcome your insights on how 'common sense' can be uniformly applied by the multitude of players in the 'sandbox' to make the right call on grey areas, when CCP marketing and CCP banhammer aren't even evidently on the same page? F Quite easily. Those refer to in game actions, made possible by game mechanics. No one here has been banned for in game villainy. As the original post quite clearly states "Real Life Harassment", which is in line with the harassment policy posted above. ... What about no actions? What about guilt-by-association bans? How does evidence that occurred contrast with the above links? If you are cool with that, you missed a key link to the communist manifesto... F
I think it was Karl Popper who pointed out that in the industrialised world or first world, of the 10 points that Marx and Engels listed in the Communist Manifesto, the only one that hasn't been achieved is the change in ownership of the means of production. So that maybe is an infelicitous comparison. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4983
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:20:00 -
[953] - Quote
evepal wrote:
Here's an opinionated statement of my own to make, that I feel is apt to the discussion. It's interesting that the victim of harassment, wouldn't want to see that problem attempted to be solved. Certainly when only anecdotal evidence can be given.
Oh this is a gem.
Please, go read the thread and get informed before you try to get involved. I have addressed this on multiple occasions. This comment, right here, shows me you are either wilfully ignorant, intentionally trolling and/or obtuse, or you just thought you knew enough about the conversation to go ahead and jump in right at the middle. Kinda like that guy that walks in and starts laughing really loud because everyone else is, but he's only doing it to be part of the group cuz he never heard the joke. Poor guy had no idea they were laughing at him all along. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11234
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:20:00 -
[954] - Quote
also, I'm pretty sure it's only tu quoque if the accusations are true
is evepal admitting to have doxxed remiel? Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
Cannibal Kane
My Little Pony of the Apocalypse Cannibal Empire
4344
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:21:00 -
[955] - Quote
Play the Ship, not the person behind the screen.
Simple concept to play EVE by. Follow it and you never have to worry about a ban, for those that does not seem to understand what CCP Falcon said. "Kane is the End Boss of Highsec." -Psychotic Monk |
evepal
Scholar of Rationality
60
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:22:00 -
[956] - Quote
Andski wrote:evepal wrote:Here's an opinionated statement of my own to make, that I feel is apt to the discussion. It's interesting that the victim of harassment, wouldn't want to see that problem attempted to be solved. Certainly when only anecdotal evidence can be given. maybe you should explain how showing you anything is going to help solve the problem hint: it won't
I form my opinions on the basis of evidence, or as you've self described "concrete proof" and re-evalute when new evidence is submitted. Submitted some evidence that's contrary to my points, and you'll see my opinion change.
Remiel Pollard wrote:See, I can play that game too.
You should read it, and then show me which fallacy was incorrect. Remember, the burden of proof lies with the accuser, and I have followed through with this -- it's your turn. I'm happy you're taking an interest into rational thought though, the more the merrier.
Are you guys going to make any more statements about the topic, or just continue with tu quoque attempts? |
MatrixSkye Mk2
Republic University Minmatar Republic
849
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Posted - 2014.09.12 18:23:00 -
[957] - Quote
Andski wrote:i also find it hilarious that he believes he's important enough to be shown evidence
i guess he was told he was special as a child, like so many others, and this gives him the notion that his opinion is so important that he must be swayed with concrete proof i know right? "Evidence" and "proof". pfft. Where I come from word is bond, son!
Successfully doinitwrongGäó since 2006.
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4983
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:23:00 -
[958] - Quote
evepal wrote:The implications that I'm your doxxer, is a fantastic tu quoque. Please refrain from going off topic.
My obtuse little friend, I can see what you're doing, and it doesn't fly. As far as I know, ANYONE could be the doxxer. This is EVE, brah. If you can't see that, then you're too new for the forums anyway. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
4985
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:24:00 -
[959] - Quote
evepal wrote:
You should read it, and then show me which fallacy was incorrect.
They're all assumed for the purpose of avoiding addressing the actual points made. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Andski
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
11235
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 18:24:00 -
[960] - Quote
evepal wrote:I form my opinions on the basis of evidence, or as you've self described "concrete proof" and re-evalute when new evidence is submitted. Submitted some evidence that's contrary to my points, and you'll see my opinion change.
that's great
now explain why your opinion is important enough for him to basically dox himself to you
MatrixSkye Mk2 wrote:i know right? "Evidence" and "proof". pfft. Where I come from word is bond, son!
or yours for that matter Twitter: @EVEAndski
"It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -á-á - Abrazzar |
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