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Deirdre Semmes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2014.09.11 05:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
I have read a fair (hopefully enough) amount of texts about how to cloak & escape when arriving from a stargate and how some will try decloaking you, with their clouds of drones and spiralling courses, etc.
Now, I'm not too sure how to handle the situation where you are going out of a system in the first place. Is it possible to be pointed when arriving at 0 km from a gate with immediate order to jump out, or is it not possible because the time between being under warp and being carried through the gate is not long enough?
Side question, when you get into cinematic view with the gate sending you through, I guess you are unlockable at this stage? |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
658
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Posted - 2014.09.11 06:42:00 -
[2] - Quote
being pointed doesnt change your ability to use a gate so they can point you all they want as you jump out.
and yes during the annoying jump animation your ship cant be hurt.. or seen |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
491
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Posted - 2014.09.11 07:10:00 -
[3] - Quote
What Lady said, you don't have to worry about points.
As far as I know, even an insta-locking ship will not be able to hurt you, but I'm not totally certain about it. Pretty much the only thing that can hurt you is a smart-bombing battleship which is placed in your way and perfectly times its bombs while you fly by it. (Smart-bombs can hurt you while in warp.) But those are pretty rare and even then should only destroy your ship when flying something very fragile.
And in null-sec, there are drag-bubbles. They make you come out of warp a few km off, preventing you from using the gate immediately, giving them time to kill you while you fly towards the gate. Highly effective, but they only exists in null-sec. To counter, you must either arrive from an odd angle (bookmarks are your best friend), use a ship that's immune to them (interceptors, some T3) or stay cloaked. (But active bubble camps usually scatter a couple containers around to try forcing you out of cloak.)
In any case, you can (and should) use d-scan to check a gate before warping to it. Any bubbles will be visible, as will be any decloaked ship. This should allow you to decide whether it's safe to warp there or not. If you are really paranoid, you can check killboards for recent kills to see whether anyone in system likes to do cloaked gate camps. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
658
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Posted - 2014.09.11 07:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
note that warp to 0 isnt totally exact. sometimes your ship has to move some hundred meters which can be enough to lock and blap you. which is why a lot of us have bookmarks inside of gates and stations we warp to instead so the deviation will still put us in jump/dock range |
Gregor Parud
620
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Posted - 2014.09.11 07:55:00 -
[5] - Quote
Great replies above, I'll just add that if they point you as you arrive on the gate and jump out is actually GOOD, because it means they now have a 60 seconds timer where they can't jump or dock so they can't jump the gate with you to try and catch you on the other side.
So, unless you expect to get hit hard or you're really low EHP, actually sit for a few seconds on the gate to entice them to tackle you, and THEN jump out. |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4447
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Posted - 2014.09.11 08:15:00 -
[6] - Quote
Gregor Parud wrote:Great replies above, I'll just add that if they point you as you arrive on the gate and jump out is actually GOOD, because it means they now have a 60 seconds timer where they can't jump or dock so they can't jump the gate with you to try and catch you on the other side.
So, unless you expect to get hit hard or you're really low EHP, actually sit for a few seconds on the gate to entice them to tackle you, and THEN jump out.
That's why a good gatecamp will NEVER fully agress unless you shoot back.
They will Always keep back up tackle on hand in case you jump the gate.
---
OP:
There are 3 things you should be afraid of when arriving on your "out" gate.
1. Smart bombs - they don't need lock and will just hurt anything that comes in their range. Specially lethal for small ships and pods. 2. Bubbles - Only applies for null-sec and WH. They can pull you in and make you land far from the gate. 3. Lag / Desync - As lethal as it can be as it gives unfair advantage, but hard to counter.
Other then that, you are "as safe as possible" when arriving at 0 on a gate as you can jump at any time unless you agress back. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Jur Tissant
Unreal Darkness
225
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Posted - 2014.09.11 12:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
I've only been killed a few times while approaching a gate, twice by smartbombs and I think once by a bubble. If you're travelling through low-sec and see a criminal in local (or, better yet, a whole horde of criminals) then you should be on the lookout for smartbombs. You can warp in at 100km to check if the gate isn't in d-scan range.
Null-sec is an entirely different beasty and I wouldn't go there without a covops cloak, interceptor, a scout alt, or backup. |
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
4122
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Posted - 2014.09.11 17:29:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:being pointed doesnt change your ability to use a gate so they can point you all they want as you jump out.
and yes during the annoying jump animation your ship cant be hurt.. or seen ... and if they point you, they can't follow through the stargate for one minute. |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
1912
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Posted - 2014.09.11 22:00:00 -
[9] - Quote
Thomas Builder wrote:In any case, you can (and should) use d-scan to check a gate before warping to it. Any bubbles will be visible, as will be any decloaked ship. This should allow you to decide whether it's safe to warp there or not. If you are really paranoid, you can check killboards for recent kills to see whether anyone in system likes to do cloaked gate camps. Small tip:
If the gate you want to d-scan isn't in scan range (14.1 AU) of anything else in system, you can do the 'Drain Your Own Capacitor' trick!
This is how it works.
1) Click warp
2) Immediately cancel it (ctrl-space). You won't warp but your capacitor will have gone down anyway
3) Click warp again. Does the 'not enough capacitor to warp the full distance' message pop up?
4) No --> Immediately cancel warp, again! And go to 3)
5) Yes --> Take the warp. You'll land in the middle of nowhere, but within scan range of the gate
6) D-scan it to your heart's content! Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Paranoid Loyd
1814
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Posted - 2014.09.11 22:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Yeah not sure I agree with Gully's recommendation. It leaves you vulnerable as it takes time and won't necessarily get you within D-scan range until you have a very strong understanding of cap drain to distance traveled ratio. Not to mention your cap will be very low and it is not very easy to defend yourself without any cap. You should have off-grid perches setup for any systems you regularly travel for this but in the event you don't, I would think warping to a celestial (don't warp to zero) that is within D-scan range would be both more efficient and a bit safer than leaving yourself out in the open with a drained cap. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
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Deirdre Semmes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
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Posted - 2014.09.12 05:40:00 -
[11] - Quote
semi related questions in answer to your pro tips all!
1. I guess you can't warp in direction of nothing? i.e toward the vast emptiness?
2. Is it true that aligning toward an object and then reducing your speed to 0 is worth nothing?
3. Why people don't drop their warp bubble centered around a gate? I guess that's because there is a minimum range? Why they don't put 4/6 bubbles around the bottleneck gate (the one in null sec that is the arrival of low sec, or the one in null sec leading to their back yard?). Is it boring to do, costly, useless?
4. are all ships capable of covert cloak able to warp while cloaked or this is a property of the ship and not the cloak?
Thanks in advance, yet-not-bitter vets |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
1916
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Posted - 2014.09.12 07:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
1. Correct, you always have to warp to something (including a bookmark, of course, if you have one)
2. Mostly correct.
The direction your ship 'graphical model' is facing when you're standing still makes no difference.
It is, however, usually better (faster) to align from a 'zero speed' state than from a 'moving in the wrong direction' state.
3. Not sure on this one, sorry :)
4. Warping while cloaked is a property of covops cloaks. If you can fit one, you can warp cloaked. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
Gully Alex Foyle
Black Fox Marauders Spaceship Bebop
1916
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 07:17:00 -
[13] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:You should have off-grid perches setup
[...]
warping to a celestial (don't warp to zero) that is within D-scan range You speak wise words.
But alas, sometimes you don't have perches set up and your target gate is over 14.1 AU from EVERYTHING.
That's when the cap drain technique is the only way to get within D-scan range without actually warping to the gate first. Make space glamorous! Is EVE dying or not? Ask the EVE-O Death-o-meter! |
voetius
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
264
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Posted - 2014.09.12 08:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Deirdre Semmes wrote:semi related questions in answer to your pro tips all! 1. I guess you can't warp in direction of nothing? i.e toward the vast emptiness? 2. Is it true that aligning toward an object and then reducing your speed to 0 is worth nothing? 3. Why people don't drop their warp bubble centered around a gate? I guess that's because there is a minimum range? Why they don't put 4/6 bubbles around the bottleneck gate (the one in null sec that is the arrival of low sec, or the one in null sec leading to their back yard?). Is it boring to do, costly, useless? 4. are all ships capable of covert cloak able to warp while cloaked or this is a property of the ship and not the cloak? Thanks in advance, yet-not-bitter vets
I will just tackle point 3 as Gully has mentioned the others.
When using anchorable bubbles people usually site them behind the gate at between 50 - 100km. This is so that anyone warping to the gate gets "dragged" past it, hence the name "drag bubbles". They then have to turn 180 and burn back to the gate giving aggressors more time to catch them. The distance is important because if the drag bubble was say 200km behind the gate then someone would just need to get outside the bubble and could then warp to the gate.
Bubbles on entry points are sometimes found. I recall a time in Providence when I was on my way out and in the last system before low sec. I was in a capsule so I "bounced" off a celestial and not having a bookmark near the gate just hoped that warping to the gate at an odd angle would bypass any bubbles anchored near the gate. However, the canny residents had anchored 4 or 5 bubbles around the gate to cover the different directions that people could warp to the gate from and had covered it completely.
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4457
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 09:38:00 -
[15] - Quote
Deirdre Semmes wrote:semi related questions in answer to your pro tips all! 1. I guess you can't warp in direction of nothing? i.e toward the vast emptiness? 2. Is it true that aligning toward an object and then reducing your speed to 0 is worth nothing? 3. Why people don't drop their warp bubble centered around a gate? I guess that's because there is a minimum range? Why they don't put 4/6 bubbles around the bottleneck gate (the one in null sec that is the arrival of low sec, or the one in null sec leading to their back yard?). Is it boring to do, costly, useless? 4. are all ships capable of covert cloak able to warp while cloaked or this is a property of the ship and not the cloak? Thanks in advance, yet-not-bitter vets
1. It's a warp drive, not a probability drive . Ergo, you need to have a destination to warp to, this can be a celestial but also a bookmark in the middle of nothing.
2. Correct.
EVE works with velocity vectors. This means that you can see your ship as a dot and with 0 velocity you will have no vector. Now to get to warp you need a vector of 75% of your maximum velocity to engage to warp.
3. Because it makes people drop relatively close to the gate, where as if you put it say 100 km behind a gate, people are too far to make quick escapes yet easy prey.
Another downside of bubbling the gate itself is that you can be caught in your own bubble(s) when an enemy fleet arrives that you can't take on and thus you are making a tactical retreat much harder for yourself.
Your idea is utilized though, mainly in dead end pipe systems with lots of people ratting / mining there. What they do is set up a jump-bridge system to get in and out of the pipe to another random system in range and then bubble the living hell out of the entry gates into that system. This way they can easily enter and exit the pipe by using that jump bridge, but enemies can't and have to get through those bubbles.
This gives intel channels time to respond to enemy movement and form up a defense fleet or at least get the people safe.
4. They are all able to warp cloaked, because they can all fit the covert ops cloak.
The ability to warp cloaked is because of the covert ops cloak module, not the ship. But any ship that can fit it (only select ships can because of their bonus to the module) the module thus can warp cloaked. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Thomas Builder
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
493
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Posted - 2014.09.12 16:25:00 -
[16] - Quote
3. In addition to what already has been said, bubbles DO get placed directly on a gate, but that's to catch incoming traffic, not outgoing. And it's almost always done only when needed, with a temporary bubble from a (Heavy) Interdictor, as to not hinder the movement of your own fleets.
BTW, in case that wasn't clear: a bubble does not prevent you from going through the gate once you are in jump range. |
Milan Nantucket
New Eden Misfits
165
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Posted - 2014.09.14 10:25:00 -
[17] - Quote
Deirdre Semmes wrote:I have read a fair (hopefully enough) amount of texts about how to cloak & escape when arriving from a stargate and how some will try decloaking you, with their clouds of drones and spiralling courses, etc.
Now, I'm not too sure how to handle the situation where you are going out of a system in the first place. Is it possible to be pointed when arriving at 0 km from a gate with immediate order to jump out, or is it not possible because the time between being under warp and being carried through the gate is not long enough?
Side question, when you get into cinematic view with the gate sending you through, I guess you are unlockable at this stage? When jumping your mostly invulnerable....
There are two instances where that is not true.
1 Smartbombing battleships on the gate. They will pop most small ships and your pod before you can jump. Rancer used to be a good place to test that theory. Not sure if it is still perma camped.
2 Your player combat timer is active and the gate gives you a middle finger. Meaning you dont jump. that timer is active if you agressed or shot at someone.
as for bubbles in Null sec... not hard to avoid. Just don't warp from gate to gate. Find something that get you within dscan range and warp there first to dscan the gate.
I have yet to see a camp where the bubbles pull from anything other than the gates. The sun is a bad idea. The non lazy campers will sometimes have a drag bubble in line with the sun. |
Deirdre Semmes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 09:09:00 -
[18] - Quote
Thanks for the infos. Am I reading right that bubbles prevent warp even for your corp mates? |
J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4474
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 09:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
Deirdre Semmes wrote:Thanks for the infos. Am I reading right that bubbles prevent warp even for your corp mates? Yes.
Bubbles prevent warp for ANY ship/pod that is within their sphere of influence. They have no friend/foe setting. This is also why a lot of fleets don't let just anybody fly dictors/HICs as it's too easy to get your own fleet in trouble.
btw, same counts for smartbombs and friendly ships / drones...they all take damage/die to them too, hence why if you have a fleet of smarties, they are all fitted with same smartbomb and all tank that smartbomb's specific resist. Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Inxentas Ultramar
Ultramar Independent Contracting
1508
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 13:49:00 -
[20] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:being pointed doesnt change your ability to use a gate so they can point you all they want as you jump out.
and yes during the annoying jump animation your ship cant be hurt.. or seen
In fact, it might be a good idea to take a slight pause at the gate and let the points happen deliberately. Why? Because the people pointing you will not be able to jump that gate for a full minute thanks to their weapons timers, meaning you can split their fleet (and increase your fighting chance). A proper camp will have a pointman on the other side though. |
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