Pages: 1 [2] :: one page |
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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
225
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Posted - 2014.09.11 19:55:00 -
[31] - Quote
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:It preys on a players lack of knowledge 0f a particular skill book when the game leads you to believe you can't put up a buy order without the isk. Actually, it preys on players who have never heard the saying "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is." That's all there is to it. Common sense will also cause alarm bells to ring: who sets a minimum quantity for high-value items? You don't need to know the mechanics to smell something rotting.
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NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
30
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Posted - 2014.09.11 20:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:NoLife NoFriends StillPosting wrote:It preys on a players lack of knowledge 0f a particular skill book when the game leads you to believe you can't put up a buy order without the isk. Actually, it preys on players who have never heard the saying "If it looks too good to be true, it probably is." That's all there is to it. Common sense will also cause alarm bells to ring: who sets a minimum quantity for high-value items? You don't need to know the mechanics to smell something rotting.
Actually, Even fozzie admitted that the buy orders were basically lying to the player. Its not about something too good to be true, its that the game lies to the player and expecting to guess that there is a skill book that allows that is pretty stupid.
typical victim blaming irrespective of rational thought. |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
10
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Posted - 2014.09.11 20:36:00 -
[33] - Quote
"I didn't know there was a +3 strength warp scrambler" "I didn't know there was an infinite strength warp disruptor" "I didn't know being too close to an object in space would decloak my ship" "I didn't know margin trading existed as a skill"
See the pattern?
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Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.09.11 20:48:00 -
[34] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:"I didn't know there was a +3 strength warp scrambler" "I didn't know there was an infinite strength warp disruptor" "I didn't know being too close to an object in space would decloak my ship" "I didn't know margin trading existed as a skill"
See the pattern?
. So.. if there was a bug ( or "feature") to be able to shoot other players without decloaking would you say: intended gameplay? |
Aplysia Vejun
The Scope Gallente Federation
2
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Posted - 2014.09.11 20:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:" Doesn't mean the company owes the cost of the product or service to the person who put work in/used capital in an attempt to fulfill the request.. Actually yes they do. If one part is retreating from the contract, they still have to pay the goods (or pay a fine) |
Kell Braugh
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
12
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Posted - 2014.09.12 02:18:00 -
[36] - Quote
Aplysia Vejun wrote:Kell Braugh wrote:" Doesn't mean the company owes the cost of the product or service to the person who put work in/used capital in an attempt to fulfill the request.. Actually yes they do. If one part is retreating from the contract, they still have to pay the goods (or pay a fine) When did I say anything about a contract? When did the game say anything about a contract in regards to a buy order. Reading comprehension FTW.
Grats though on finding the difference between Eve's 'Regional Marketplace' mechanics and it's 'Contracts' mechanics though |
Rroff
Questionable Ethics. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
811
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Posted - 2014.09.12 03:16:00 -
[37] - Quote
afkalt wrote: Edit: The amount of people who patently have no clue how this works suggests that I should start doing this.
Make sure you don't have the actual amount to cover it in the wallet when the buy order is live - I got so much abuse from someone recently lol when I happened to already have a number of the item they were setting up the scam on and they hadn't yet moved the ISK out the wallet :D
While scamming is part and parcel of eve I do dislike this and the old trade window exploit (since patched) as unlike other things that Kell Braugh listed they are mechanisms that can't really be anticipated and also unlike those things exist in other games working in a standardised way that don't allow them to be manipulated in those ways and shouldn't be possible either IMO, though I'd be less against them if like above they had some notification that it couldn't be guaranteed. |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3370
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Posted - 2014.09.12 03:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Removed an off topic post. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
54
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Posted - 2014.09.12 03:32:00 -
[39] - Quote
I almost fell into this same trap as a young player. Thankfully some helpful people in Amarr local saved me. The use of margin to intentionally create inflated buy orders that won't execute is absurd. There should be some kind of reasonable cap on buy order price, and serious consequences to margin trading if you lack the liquidity to execute the buy order. Also the tutorials should cover this scam. The market system creates the imprimatur of legitimacy which is especially troubling here. |
NoLife NoFriends StillPosting
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
31
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Posted - 2014.09.12 04:55:00 -
[40] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:TL;DR version: Greedy person taught a lesson by smarter person. Wants to nerf smarter person.
It has nothing to do with being smart. Scammers are usually dumber than the people who fall for their scams, given what they spend their time trying to do. These are copycats who abuse a system that leads a player to believe something is a certain way. It has nothing to do with intelligence, just an abuse of another players all too common lack of knowledge about a certain mundane skill book. Even a moron should be able to understand this.
You are right to feel angry OP. CCP Fozzie has discussed fixing this issue recently. Disgusting how these awful gameplay mechanics are allowed to exist for so long that mostly victimize newer players. It only took them 10 years to fix can flipping. |
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chaosgrimm
Universal Production and Networking Services
154
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Posted - 2014.09.12 05:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
Kell Braugh wrote:"I didn't know there was a +3 strength warp scrambler" "I didn't know there was an infinite strength warp disruptor" "I didn't know being too close to an object in space would decloak my ship" "I didn't know margin trading existed as a skill"
See the pattern?
In all fairness for the first 3 listed, even if the above resulted in the player losing their ship, the player would have been at least operating under the impression that they are in a dangerous area and risk losing their ship.
In margin trading, the player is not aware that they are at risk of losing the majority of what they spent.
Kell Braugh wrote: And about 'lying' to the player, well-- same thing happens in real life markets. Companies asking for proposals for services they don't end up buying, or being able to afford to buy. Doesn't mean the company owes the cost of the product or service to the person who put work in/used capital in an attempt to fulfill the request.
The big difference is that in Eve, you are instantly screwed, as opposed to waiting six months (or more) to find out you are.
Only the same thing doesnt typically happen in gaming markets, and seeing as this is a game world and not the real world, it's not reasonable to assume that margin trading or the margin trading scam exist |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
483
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Posted - 2014.09.12 05:55:00 -
[42] - Quote
How to beat the scam.
See odd buy order,
fill it buying your stuff somewhere else, or as I have done in the past make it and have in the station. I usually kept some overstock if market kind of meh at time of delivery. Assuming no dire need of liquid isk, jsut let it rot and wait for markets to get better.
May only get a few sales but still can make some isk.
if making isk was as easy as seeing low sell order, high buy order we'd all be bazillionaires. Well that and I rarely believe in coincidences.
When you mix the coincidence of odd buy/sell with coincidence hundreds haven't run a train on it.....that's just too many coincidences
For op...to play this game safely in the future besides the above you want to do this on days following patch notes/blogs coming out for upcoming patches and the speculation runs rampant. then watch after patch hit a bit.
When ccp "nerfs" something you can see dips in sell price, But you get a decent chance a buy order has not adjusted and these would be legit risks. Still a risk, but odds a bit better then
The key here though is you need to see lots of buy orders with odd prices. Better chance these peeps are bad at trading or just not online at the time of patch notes. This would be why when I go vacations and such...I pull buy orders. Just not digging item A getting a market slump and peeps running a train on my better prices as a buy order when not able to login often. |
RubyPorto
RubysRhymes
5565
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Posted - 2014.09.12 06:55:00 -
[43] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:I've always wondered, aside from this scam, what is the point of the min required for sale? I mean that seems the easiest fix for the scam is to get rid of that One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters
Say I want to get 100 Trit and am willing to do some hauling to get it cheap, but I'm not willing to take a trip to get 1 Trit out of a station, but am willing to go get 10. I can only afford 100 Trit.
If I set a buy order with no minimum, I might get 1 Trit in each of 100 stations, such that I've wasted all my money on things not worth picking up. The minimum guarantees that every Trit I buy is in a stack worth picking up.
It's also totally unnecessary to perform the scam.
Jur Tissant wrote:A small crowd in my experience, as I have never encountered a legit buy order which couldn't be fulfilled. Besides, does it matter if the the player is a legit trader? If a buy order can't be fulfilled, it can't be fulfilled, and shouldn't the seller have a right to know that?
And as soon as you become a seller, you are informed that the buyer was unable to cover his order.
In other words, the escrow check happens as soon as it matters. That's why it's impossible to lose anything selling to any order. Either you get the money you agreed to receive, or you keep your items.
Major Trant wrote:These goods are not worth 3B, the scammer would have bought out the market on a rare items first, then reposted the goods on Sell Orders for a greatly inflated price, typically 10 times the price.
As we all know, goods are worth exactly what someone is willing to pay for them. OP valued the items at 3B. "It's easy to speak for the silent majority. They rarely object to what you put into their mouths." -Abrazzar "the risk of having your day ruined by other people is the cornerstone with which EVE was built" -CCP Solomon |
evepal
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
43
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Posted - 2014.09.12 11:57:00 -
[44] - Quote
This scam should stay. As for station trading, there is little to no risk if you know what you're doing and aren't speculating your entire assets on a fluctuating item -- so there needs to be perfectly legitimate real world examples of those scams, that be replicated to the best of their ability within the confines of the games mechanics.
There are people in the real world, who do in fact sell items far, far beyond the normal price, and people will buy it. You cannot claim you were unaware of an items true value as defense for falling for the scam. Personal incredulity is not a valid argument in any discussion, and that includes this.
Addressing new players who fall for this, if they've amassed a wealth that's going to substantially hurt them in the time before they've started to get hooked into the universe, then they're in no real danger, are they? Either they buy another PLEX, or they'll continue to make ISK the way they did before, or they'll leave. EvE is a harsh game by mechanics, and if they don't like it, then this only serves as the instrument that gave them the conclusion.
There is going to be a mechanic that some new players don't like, just because some new players didn't like this one, doesn't make it an invalid mechanic. You may not personally like it, but please don't confuse personal distaste for something and the health of the universe.
That's just my 0.01 ISK up on this. |
Linus Gorp
Ministry of Propaganda and Morale Black Marker
35
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Posted - 2014.09.12 13:17:00 -
[45] - Quote
NEONOVUS wrote:I've always wondered, aside from this scam, what is the point of the min required for sale? I mean that seems the easiest fix for the scam is to get rid of that One less column, less database, happier server, fatter hamsters
Some of us actually do not want to buy stuff below a specific amount... When you put up a region-wide buy order for, let's say, Tritanium, would you want to pick up 100 units here, 50 there, and the two last pieces over there? I'd rather only buy at least 500.000 units, and then fly to every station to pick up my 500.000+ units each. When you don't know the difference between there, their, and they're, you come across as being so uneducated that your viewpoint can be safely dismissed. The literate is unlikely to learn much from the aliterate. |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
89
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Posted - 2014.09.12 13:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
This margin trading scam post was created by ccp rise. Why this is not locked for repeat post is unclear Is that my two cents or yours? |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3373
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Posted - 2014.09.12 17:51:00 -
[47] - Quote
Quote:17. Redundant and re-posted threads will be locked.
As a courtesy to other forum users, please search to see if there is a thread already open on the topic you wish to discuss. If so, please place your comments there instead. Multiple threads on the same subject clutter up the forums needlessly, causing good feedback and ideas to be lost. Please keep discussions regarding a topic to a single thread. Thread closed. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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