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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 16 post(s) |
Agnahr
The Executives Executive Outcomes
0
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Posted - 2014.10.12 13:41:00 -
[271] - Quote
I haven't read the whole 14 pages posted here so apologies if this was raised before. But I agree with some comments that giving an improved TE for invention won't make a great deal of difference. However having different ME is going to be a pain in the back side rather than a bonus unless the changes comes with an easy way to calculate total bill of materials.
At the moment it's easy. To invent tech II mods, I use no descriptor leading to blueprints with a ME of -2 and TE of -4. So I look at one blueprint, multiply the required input of materials by 10 runs and then by the number of blueprints I have to know how much raw material to buy. I can then go to a trade hub and by everything I need.
Wit the proposed change, I'll have some blueprints with 3 different ME. This will lead to tedious sums with possibility of errors, leading to time wasted going back to buy the stuff I got wrong. I don't see that as enjoyable game play.
Of course I can invest some time to make a fancy spreadsheet or hope that someone makes a nice third party tool for me. But in my view it would be much better if the Industry window can tell me what I need directly. At the moment I can select one blueprint and the top half of the Industry window shows what the materials I must have and in what quantity. A simple solution would be the ability to select multiple blueprints of the same type and the top half of the window shows me the total requirement for each material. And it'd be even better if I can install all those jobs in one go too. |
Hulk Miner
Coreli Corporation Ineluctable.
20
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Posted - 2014.10.13 18:14:00 -
[272] - Quote
CCP Phantom wrote:
Here a brief overview of the proposed changes (which are not coming with Oceanus):
To invent Tech-2 items you require for each invented item a set of two specific science skills. Which skills you exactly need will be changed. For ships you always needed the Mechanical Engineering skill, that is going to change depending on the role of the invented ship.
I have specialized characters in invention skilled in a certain way and these may now become defunct until I skill up another random skill?
So will the same apply to invention as it did battle cruisers and destroyers, if you can do it now you will be able to do it after the changes and give me the other skill needed to the level I have it now?
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
58
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Posted - 2014.10.13 18:23:00 -
[273] - Quote
Hulk Miner wrote:CCP Phantom wrote:
Here a brief overview of the proposed changes (which are not coming with Oceanus):
To invent Tech-2 items you require for each invented item a set of two specific science skills. Which skills you exactly need will be changed. For ships you always needed the Mechanical Engineering skill, that is going to change depending on the role of the invented ship. I have specialized characters in invention skilled in a certain way and these may now become defunct until I skill up another random skill? So will the same apply to invention as it did battle cruisers and destroyers, if you can do it now you will be able to do it after the changes and give me the other skill needed to the level I have it now?
pretty much it means that you can build it right now, but its changing and you will need to skill up additional skills to get back what you can build right now.
he's just created a huge skill up grind for everyone across the board when it comes to invention and whats even worse hasn't kept the thread updated nor even discussed what the official changes are!. this is terrible customer service no wonder folks continue to get fed up and leave the game. |
Agnahr
The Executives Executive Outcomes
0
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Posted - 2014.10.13 20:21:00 -
[274] - Quote
Momiji Sakora wrote:Has there been any updates regarding the suggestions?
Has this already been discussed? Any roundups on what's been said so far?
The last DEV post was on page 9, so it looks like CCP is no longer interested in this thread...
I'll share some further thoughts on this anyway. With the last research and industrial changes, what I observed is that
- the production cost have increased by as much as 30% in some cases because of the re-balancing of the bill of materials. This led to smaller margin.
- the production time was reduced, and the concept of slot was removed. This led to quicker turn around, hence more items on the market. More items means more competition, which leads to even smaller margin.
CCP is now proposing to hit invention a second time. Wtih the decrease in the success rate, more datacores and decrytors will be needed to achieve the same number of tech II blueprints. Also we'll be able to set 10 inventions run in one go as opposed to just one. So if your inventions take 3 hours, after 30 hours, you should have 5 blueprints (taking a 50% chance of success to keep simple). Sounds great, no? But again reduce success rate AND a bigger turn around, will put an even greater pressure on the datacores. More demands for those items means higher prices and quicker turn around will cause yet more competitions and margins squished even further.
In short, inventions may become just a hobby or for the well organised corps with poses and teams at their services. Maybe I should run data sites, at least I might make some good money out of datacores.
But who cares, CCP don't read responses to their posts...
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Suzuka A1
Multiplex Gaming The Bastion
38
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Posted - 2014.10.15 15:52:00 -
[275] - Quote
Quote:Dev Blog: "Stay tuned for more and expect threads to appear on the GÇ£Features & Ideas DiscussionGÇ¥ to discuss specific points mentioned in this blog with time."
...still waiting.
Also, still waiting for confirmation that CCP has some strategy to reimburse Data Interface BPCs for those of us who bought large amounts of them off the market...and can't possibly build all of them by Nov 4th due to the 20 hour build times/run. Never forget the battle of Z9PP-H-á What actually happened: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgcUwTmHY74 Battle Report: http://www.kugutsumen.com/showthread.php?42836-They-Might-Be-Giants-The-Southwest&p=497626&viewfull=1#post497626 |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
58
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Posted - 2014.10.15 22:01:00 -
[276] - Quote
Suzuka A1 wrote:Quote:Dev Blog: "Stay tuned for more and expect threads to appear on the GÇ£Features & Ideas DiscussionGÇ¥ to discuss specific points mentioned in this blog with time." ...still waiting. Also, still waiting for confirmation that CCP has some strategy to reimburse Data Interface BPCs for those of us who bought large amounts of them off the market...and can't possibly build all of them by Nov 4th due to the 20 hour build times/run.
he's not saying jack cause he's allowing time to click on down to the very last minute in order to avoid a invention level debate or thread of rage about the changes.
so countdown begins!.. this mess is about to go live without feedback from its fanbase.. no further mention of the changes being made.. just some 3rd party app crap..
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Je'ron
The Happy Shooters
2
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Posted - 2014.10.18 19:26:00 -
[277] - Quote
CCP Ytterbium wrote:Lucy Sue wrote:Regarding the skills in the past when skill requirements have been changed it had been done in a way so that people who could do it before at a certain level could do it after at the same level. For example ships and drones. With the changes outlined in this blog it would force us to train skills to reach that same level as before, are any skills going to be raised to compensate? The ship tiericide caused us to delete old generic Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills and replace them with new ones, which is why we had to add and refund those skills to the players. This change is just shuffling tech II skill requirements for science skills around - your existing skills won't lose value, they'll just allow you to invent / manufacture other types of items you originally aimed for. As such there is no plan for skills to be manually raised or reimbursed. That is why we wanted to bring this blog early on to give you time to adapt and train skills needed back up.
How much lead time are you going to give us? I need > 120 days of training to be able to invent and produce the same items at the succes rate as I'm currently making. That is on a char mapped for science And how commitment are you going to us? Because if you change while I'm training you **** me again. |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
64
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Posted - 2014.10.20 00:11:00 -
[278] - Quote
Je'ron wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Lucy Sue wrote:Regarding the skills in the past when skill requirements have been changed it had been done in a way so that people who could do it before at a certain level could do it after at the same level. For example ships and drones. With the changes outlined in this blog it would force us to train skills to reach that same level as before, are any skills going to be raised to compensate? The ship tiericide caused us to delete old generic Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills and replace them with new ones, which is why we had to add and refund those skills to the players. This change is just shuffling tech II skill requirements for science skills around - your existing skills won't lose value, they'll just allow you to invent / manufacture other types of items you originally aimed for. As such there is no plan for skills to be manually raised or reimbursed. That is why we wanted to bring this blog early on to give you time to adapt and train skills needed back up. How much lead time are you going to give us? I need > 120 days of training to be able to invent and produce the same items at the succes rate as I'm currently making. That is on a char mapped for science And how commitment are you going to us? Because if you change while I'm training you **** me again.
we still get no response from him after us asking for more info over and over again. invention what you can make now .. better be your top priority and stock up before his change goes live cause its a mess. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4052
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Posted - 2014.10.20 05:29:00 -
[279] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Je'ron wrote:CCP Ytterbium wrote:Lucy Sue wrote:Regarding the skills in the past when skill requirements have been changed it had been done in a way so that people who could do it before at a certain level could do it after at the same level. For example ships and drones. With the changes outlined in this blog it would force us to train skills to reach that same level as before, are any skills going to be raised to compensate? The ship tiericide caused us to delete old generic Destroyer and Battlecruiser skills and replace them with new ones, which is why we had to add and refund those skills to the players. This change is just shuffling tech II skill requirements for science skills around - your existing skills won't lose value, they'll just allow you to invent / manufacture other types of items you originally aimed for. As such there is no plan for skills to be manually raised or reimbursed. That is why we wanted to bring this blog early on to give you time to adapt and train skills needed back up. How much lead time are you going to give us? I need > 120 days of training to be able to invent and produce the same items at the succes rate as I'm currently making. That is on a char mapped for science And how commitment are you going to us? Because if you change while I'm training you **** me again. we still get no response from him after us asking for more info over and over again. invention what you can make now .. better be your top priority and stock up before his change goes live cause its a mess.
As for the 'how much time' http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/coming-to-eve-online-in-the-phoebe-release-on-november-4th/ Woo! CSM 9! http://fuzzwork.enterprises/ Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter |
ORLICZ
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
6
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Posted - 2014.10.20 10:32:00 -
[280] - Quote
wtf ???
so now i ll have 100 different t2 bpc my damage control II ?? me 2% te 3% or me 3% te 2% ... etc ? click click wtf??? where is mine ME 10% BPC :P
solution: show ME and TE on bpc icon and ad stacking bpc
and stuff from exploration should be valuable - solution: less sites with exploration
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Abrazzar
Vardaugas Family
4960
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Posted - 2014.10.20 14:18:05 -
[281] - Quote
Proposal for multiple outcomes to Invention:
- Success (exceptional): 50% of datacores returned
- Success (great): 25% of datacores returned
- Success (good): 10% of datacores returned
- Success (standard): no datacore returned
- Failure (standard): 10 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (poor): 5 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (terrible): 1 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (critical): no results
This will avoid incoherent manufacturing time and material requirements when producing larger batches of T2 items while still retaining a significant return for fringe results.
Sovereignty and Population
New Mining Mechanics
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
16
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Posted - 2014.10.20 22:23:32 -
[282] - Quote
So....any word yet?
Or are you just planning to bludgeon this change straight through regardless of what most of the feedback is begging you to do? |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
66
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Posted - 2014.10.20 23:34:55 -
[283] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:So....any word yet?
Or are you just planning to bludgeon this change straight through regardless of what most of the feedback is begging you to do?
dude hasn't even responded since creating the thread, I think he's forgotten about it. |
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4069
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Posted - 2014.10.21 01:14:17 -
[284] - Quote
There's another devblog coming, with updates.
Woo! CSM 9!
http://fuzzwork.enterprises/
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
16
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Posted - 2014.10.21 01:52:01 -
[285] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There's another devblog coming, with updates.
Yes, we were told Soon(tm)....a month ago...
I don't know if you remember, but a while back CCP "promised" to take huge steps forward in their communication with this community....There has not been a single Dev response in this "feedback" thread for 37 days. Which is troubling when one considers that they also had a goal of having all this info out to us in time to get good testing time before release. (re-read OP)
It really would not be very hard for just a single person from the team involved to read and respond to concerns brought up in their respective 'feedback' threads. Really, it wouldn't. My guess is maybe 1 hour (if that) of work time every other day would generally be sufficient to cover the basic communication needs. But narry a peep in over a month is not what most people would consider 'good communication'.
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
66
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Posted - 2014.10.21 18:41:39 -
[286] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:There's another devblog coming, with updates.
yea it did.. how to sell your s***t...
they post about the new sell items interface. nothing at all on the invention CHANGES!... big frigging changes to invention.. and he's ignored it..
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Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
4069
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Posted - 2014.10.21 19:32:48 -
[287] - Quote
Milla Goodpussy wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:There's another devblog coming, with updates. yea it did.. how to sell your s***t... they post about the new sell items interface. nothing at all on the invention CHANGES!... big frigging changes to invention.. and he's ignored it..
Not the dev blog I was referring to. There is more than a single development stream you know.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5133468#post5133468 refers to it.
Woo! CSM 9!
http://fuzzwork.enterprises/
Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter
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Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
66
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Posted - 2014.10.21 19:47:26 -
[288] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:There's another devblog coming, with updates. yea it did.. how to sell your s***t... they post about the new sell items interface. nothing at all on the invention CHANGES!... big frigging changes to invention.. and he's ignored it.. Not the dev blog I was referring to. There is more than a single development stream you know. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5133468#post5133468 refers to it.
you guys are there discussing the invention outcome, parsing, tic for tac never mind geek mess.. we're talking about whats here on the INFO portal.. where it was stated the skills required to build the friggin item was changing.. not spreadsheet warrior madness on a different channel.. you guys need to get it together and stop posting multiple links all around this site and have one solid comprehensive information portal. I should not have to hunt for information...what is this.. eve online should be difficult to even locate information on an upcoming change?? no wonder folks are leaving!..
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
16
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Posted - 2014.10.21 22:42:09 -
[289] - Quote
Yes. Because all industry players read all the 3rd party developer kit threads that pop up. How about answering questions related to the blog that said thread is supposed to give feedback for? Why would i look under the forum section devoted to "player tools and applications" for information about the invention changes?
And why post only in that thread 2 days ago talking about the possible updates...when they haven't posted in THE THREAD DEDICATED TO INVENTION FEEDBACK for well over 30 days?
And then we as players attempting to give feedback get yelled at by dev's/csm's for "giving the wrong dev's feedback for stuff that is 'not their area"....can you understand our frustration? |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
66
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Posted - 2014.10.21 23:20:26 -
[290] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:Yes. Because all industry players read all the 3rd party developer kit threads that pop up. How about answering questions related to the blog that said thread is supposed to give feedback for? Why would i look under the forum section devoted to "player tools and applications" for information about the invention changes? And why post only in that thread 2 days ago talking about the possible updates...when they haven't posted in THE THREAD DEDICATED TO INVENTION FEEDBACK for well over 30 days? And then we as players attempting to give feedback get yelled at by dev's/csm's for "giving the wrong dev's feedback for stuff that is 'not their area"....can you understand our frustration?
lol exactly... there you have it folks your own csm dude.. says look somewhere else for information although the dev posted a thread here about the changes coming.. yet doesn't talk about that.. epic fail on proper forum usage for all of us... |
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Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
330
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Posted - 2014.10.22 01:48:33 -
[291] - Quote
Abrazzar wrote:Proposal for multiple outcomes to Invention:
- Success (exceptional): 50% of datacores returned
- Success (great): 25% of datacores returned
- Success (good): 10% of datacores returned
- Success (standard): no datacore returned
- Failure (standard): 10 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (poor): 5 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (terrible): 1 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (critical): no results
This will avoid incoherent manufacturing time and material requirements when producing larger batches of T2 items while still retaining a significant return for fringe results. ^^ CCP, if you want multiple degrees of success, listen to this man. |
Maco Mirta
South Rapids Trading
9
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Posted - 2014.10.23 10:58:15 -
[292] - Quote
These changes look neat, and Im looking forwad to them |
Je'ron
The Happy Shooters
2
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Posted - 2014.10.24 18:30:28 -
[293] - Quote
Steve Ronuken wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:Je'ron wrote:... How much lead time are you going to give us? I need > 120 days of training to be able to invent and produce the same items at the succes rate as I'm currently making. That is on a char mapped for science And how commitment are you going to us? Because if you change while I'm training you **** me again. we still get no response from him after us asking for more info over and over again. invention what you can make now .. better be your top priority and stock up before his change goes live cause its a mess. As for the 'how much time' http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/coming-to-eve-online-in-the-phoebe-release-on-november-4th/
The link you posted doesn't include actual details about the content for the category Invention. It does refer to this
LIGHTING THE INVENTION BULB wrote: ... However, Crius was so extensive that we just couldnGÇÖt fit all the changes we had planned in one go. Now, as the dust begins to settle, time has come to close the loop with two industry professions that were left out, namely Invention and Reverse Engineering.
Also, in an effort to give players time to adjust, please note that those changes are not planned for Oceanus and will be delivered at a later date.
Which isn't clear about "a later date" either.
So my question stand: I want to know how much lead time CCP is going to give us given that I need ~4 months training to recover from the skills reshuffling they plan to do for inventions |
Milla Goodpussy
Federal Navy Academy
71
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Posted - 2014.10.24 22:35:47 -
[294] - Quote
Je'ron wrote:Steve Ronuken wrote:Milla Goodpussy wrote:Je'ron wrote:... How much lead time are you going to give us? I need > 120 days of training to be able to invent and produce the same items at the succes rate as I'm currently making. That is on a char mapped for science And how commitment are you going to us? Because if you change while I'm training you **** me again. we still get no response from him after us asking for more info over and over again. invention what you can make now .. better be your top priority and stock up before his change goes live cause its a mess. As for the 'how much time' http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/coming-to-eve-online-in-the-phoebe-release-on-november-4th/ The link you posted doesn't include actual details about the content for the category Invention. It does refer to this LIGHTING THE INVENTION BULB wrote: ... However, Crius was so extensive that we just couldnGÇÖt fit all the changes we had planned in one go. Now, as the dust begins to settle, time has come to close the loop with two industry professions that were left out, namely Invention and Reverse Engineering.
Also, in an effort to give players time to adjust, please note that those changes are not planned for Oceanus and will be delivered at a later date.
Which isn't clear about "a later date" either. So my question stand: I want to know how much lead time CCP is going to give us given that I need ~4 months training to recover from the skills reshuffling they plan to do for inventions
going by the dev blog.. dated 9/21.. the timer began then.. I think they need to push this off and deal with neural remap changes so we can not have to deal with waiting a year to speed this epic grind up in preparation for his change.
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Lil' Brudder Too
Pistols for Pandas
21
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Posted - 2014.10.27 21:28:35 -
[295] - Quote
Soon(tm).....
Sooo, i guess they don't really want any more feedback on any changes they may or may not be making to this...because they are sorta running out of time to get constructive feedback before its too late to change it before release...
Seriously...please explain to us why we should continue bothering attempting to communicate with CCP, when they seem to have no desire to follow through with their commitment to improve their communication with us. |
Damjan Fox
Fox Industries and Exploration
47
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Posted - 2014.10.29 11:51:22 -
[296] - Quote
Quote:Sooo, i guess they don't really want any more feedback on any changes they may or may not be making to this...because they are sorta running out of time to get constructive feedback before its too late to change it before release...
Seriously...please explain to us why we should continue bothering attempting to communicate with CCP, when they seem to have no desire to follow through with their commitment to improve their communication with us.
Sadly seems that way, with the latest CCP response in this thread being 2 months old. |
Sarah Flynt
Federation Interstellar Resources Silent Infinity
55
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Posted - 2014.10.29 14:46:05 -
[297] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Abrazzar wrote:Proposal for multiple outcomes to Invention:
- Success (exceptional): 50% of datacores returned
- Success (great): 25% of datacores returned
- Success (good): 10% of datacores returned
- Success (standard): no datacore returned
- Failure (standard): 10 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (poor): 5 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (terrible): 1 run BPC of a random meta version is produced
- Failure (critical): no results
This will avoid incoherent manufacturing time and material requirements when producing larger batches of T2 items while still retaining a significant return for fringe results. ^^ CCP, if you want multiple degrees of success, listen to this man. So after one source of junk BPCs was finally removed (Data Interfaces) you want to add a much bigger one?
Sick of High-Sec gankers? Join the public channel Anti-ganking and the dedicated intel channel Gank-Intel !
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Jeann Valjean
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
45
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Posted - 2014.11.01 23:55:10 -
[298] - Quote
Just wanted to come back here and thank CCP/CSM for taking everyones concerns with multiple ME/TE outcomes into consideration:
http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/invention-updates/
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DetKhord Saisio
Seniors Clan
77
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Posted - 2014.11.13 01:19:16 -
[299] - Quote
Lil' Brudder Too wrote:Yes. Because all industry players read all the 3rd party developer kit threads that pop up. How about answering questions related to the blog that said thread is supposed to give feedback for? Why would i look under the forum section devoted to "player tools and applications" for information about the invention changes? And why post only in that thread 2 days ago talking about the possible updates...when they haven't posted in THE THREAD DEDICATED TO INVENTION FEEDBACK for well over 30 days? And then we as players attempting to give feedback get yelled at by dev's/csm's for "giving the wrong dev's feedback for stuff that is 'not their area"....can you understand our frustration? I am familiar with your frustration. I know it may be difficult to be patient with all involved parties, but give it time... hopefully, they will come through for us.
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Adare Darmazaf
Anemos Research
5
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Posted - 2014.11.28 22:35:59 -
[300] - Quote
I used todo invention. I could reasonably follow that. I'm dutch so english is not my native language. So its hard for me to follow all the tech talk. But now it seems I cant get higher then the old ME=2/TE=4. While I have the idea that ME=7/TE=14 is available for every T2 invention using the right tools. Am I correct?
I dont get those teams. Seems like some auction. Not a feature I welcome. I hear from different people that they dont get it anymore.Invention I mean.
Not all people are nerds :) although they wanne play with invention.
Is there a simple explenation as to the route to max ME invention
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