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Monasucks
Tymast Industries 150th The Bastion
141
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 15:46:00 -
[871] - Quote
Dras Malar wrote:The end result is that whoever owns capital ships, especially the exceedingly high-EHP supers, and is alert and can coordinate a significant defense force will absolutely dominate sovereignty fights. Those of us who have carriers can drop them in place of cruiser sized logistics without fear in our home territories, since we can just use higher concentrations of hitpoints per pilot and win even without superior numbers. Allies of Goons who therefore have carrier pilots and large numbers of allies may find that the only threat to our dominance in the long, or increasingly, short term, is boredom. Boredom on the part of players who have nothing to fear at all and no way to leverage power across the map, reducing our ability to interact with players from other parts of the game and shrinking our horizons until Eve begins to look more and more like a single player game, grinding up isk for the sake of playing with toys that in some ways may as well have been taken away from us.
In terms of Goons and the CFC's strategic claim over half of nullsec, as far as I can tell as a CFC line member the Mittani can barely contain his smugness. In terms of logistics these changes create enormous headaches and a lot more work, but will ultimately be resolved for the power blocs, more or less. It does largely mean that we'll no longer be able to use capital ships offensively - but it doesn't stop us from buying more capital ships where they're needed and using them defensively, and with total impunity.
Just because these changes create disadvantages for existent nullsec blocs does not mean that new groups will find things any easier, or that they will ever exist, and if your changes simply make the game less fun then no one wins. For the sake of the long-term health of the game, please do not just punish the nullsec blocs for the sake of it. I haven't been playing this game very long, but now we're looking at fundamentally changing the way this game has been played for the better part of a decade. No change at all would be unfortunate in the long run, but sudden, radical changes that limit what we can even do in this game threaten its legacy as an enduring, chaotic and unpredictable game that makes headlines for being unique, competitive and maintaining some level of excitement even after 11 years. I'd rather not see yet another game make itself less relevant through drastic and short-sighted changes made by administrators to spite its own player base.
I totaly agree with you - plus it we can do then less in our time in the game so even more boring... CCP should rethink this. Can I haz you're stuff? A good worker is a live worker. Free to live - and work! A bad worker is a dead worker; and vice versa. Don't be a bad worker; bad workers are slaves, and dead. Payday for good workers has been postponed indefinitely. Payday for bad workers is cancelled! |
Deck Cadelanne
Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts
52
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 21:11:00 -
[872] - Quote
Monasucks wrote:aside from all the other changes:
We play eve in our free time. Now we should wait and spend our free time having less fun and just idle for some kind of cool down or by boring travelling by gates?
CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cool down and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!
Please consider this!
So, you think that being able to field mass blobs of capitals of huge fleets clear across the galaxy ought to be easy and require no time, effort or planning?
Really?
|
Dras Malar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.05 21:44:00 -
[873] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:Monasucks wrote:aside from all the other changes:
We play eve in our free time. Now we should wait and spend our free time having less fun and just idle for some kind of cool down or by boring travelling by gates?
CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cool down and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!
Please consider this! So, you think that being able to field mass blobs of capitals of huge fleets clear across the galaxy ought to be easy and require no time, effort or planning? Really?
Do you actually think pinging for dozens of players to log in and jump to cynos across half the galaxy requires no time, effort or planning? Have you ever tried it? |
Bl1SkR1N
Euphoria Released Triumvirate.
29
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 04:22:00 -
[874] - Quote
Dafarr Maul wrote:One stupid patch too many, i have just unsubed all 7 of my accounts, and you can say good bye to my plex cash also.
keep crying :3 each NC less counts |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
119
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 07:42:00 -
[875] - Quote
Dras, your tears only show how bad an effect it is to become a risk averse null bear like you are.
Every FW noob in a frig has to think of more factors that you noobs do.
That is why your kind gets butcherd every time you come to low sec - sad but true.
You guys simply do not get it that playing a game is about playing a game.
RIP |
Deck Cadelanne
Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts
52
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:15:00 -
[876] - Quote
Dras Malar wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:Monasucks wrote:aside from all the other changes:
We play eve in our free time. Now we should wait and spend our free time having less fun and just idle for some kind of cool down or by boring travelling by gates?
CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cool down and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!
Please consider this! So, you think that being able to field mass blobs of capitals of huge fleets clear across the galaxy ought to be easy and require no time, effort or planning? Really? Do you actually think pinging for dozens of players to log in and jump to cynos across half the galaxy requires no time, effort or planning? Have you ever tried it?
I can use a phone or IM and get my mates to log in. What I don't expect is to then be able to bridge or jump them, without any risk or further effort, clear across the galaxy to blob somebody.
I am struggling to understand why so many null coalition players (not all!) seem to believe that EVE is *their game.*
Making more of EVE gameplay more accessible, in more ways, for more players rather than just for you and your uber-blobs is a good thing, good for the game, good for the playerbase, good for CCP. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13559
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:39:00 -
[877] - Quote
Dafarr Maul wrote:One stupid patch too many, i have just unsubed all 7 of my accounts, and you can say good bye to my plex cash also.
Would you like to donate some moros'sesess to me so they can take part in my new project? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Deck Cadelanne
Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts
52
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:48:00 -
[878] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Dafarr Maul wrote:One stupid patch too many, i have just unsubed all 7 of my accounts, and you can say good bye to my plex cash also.
Would you like to donate some moros'sesess to me so they can take part in my new project?
Personally, I would *love* to see capitals as part of roaming fleets.
|
Dwissi
Miners Delight
21
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 11:11:00 -
[879] - Quote
@Dan You seem to overlook one very tiny but very important detail in your long arguments list:
Eve is player driven - if its not driven anymore its CCPs job to make it move again. As CCP can only 'expect' what might happen due to players are the driving force its their good right and actually their job to turn around when things dont play out as they thought they would. They have done that many many times since Eve exists and in the end it was always the same result: The players moved again or into a new direction. Should i do anything when all 3 things on my ship are fully red?
My thanks to all Eve players for the continued forums drama - i had no idea how much i missed it while i was away :) |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1999
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:28:00 -
[880] - Quote
Monasucks wrote:aside from all the other changes:
We play eve in our free time. Now we should wait and spend our free time having less fun and just idle for some kind of cool down or by boring travelling by gates?
CCP - in the small amount of time I have - I want to play this game and have time todo stuff! I don't want to move every second day a jf a jump and wait for the cool down and fly the cyno around - that much time I do not have!
Please consider this!
if you thinking stargate travel is goign to be boring after the patch... i just got to say lolz There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
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MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1999
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:30:00 -
[881] - Quote
Byson1 wrote: You claim to want to help the small groups in null... Why not listen to them? Check out those who have responded.. and what size of alliance/corp they belong to.. see what they suggest. If I could ask for just one thing.. don't mess with logistic ships. jump freighters specifically. no one will hop drop in a freighter anyway. so why not keep them as is. so people can keep the life blood of small alliances moving?
they want you to live and build in 0.0 if you need stuff from high sec use a dst and find a k-k wh. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1999
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:33:00 -
[882] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dafarr Maul wrote:One stupid patch too many, i have just unsubed all 7 of my accounts, and you can say good bye to my plex cash also.
Would you like to donate some moros'sesess to me so they can take part in my new project? Personally, I would *love* to see capitals as part of roaming fleets.
that will happen... currently you can get a carrier with faster AU then a battleship with the low grade implant set. There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1465
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:47:00 -
[883] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote:baltec1 wrote:Dafarr Maul wrote:One stupid patch too many, i have just unsubed all 7 of my accounts, and you can say good bye to my plex cash also.
Would you like to donate some moros'sesess to me so they can take part in my new project? Personally, I would *love* to see capitals as part of roaming fleets. that will happen... currently you can get a carrier with faster AU then a battleship with the low grade implant set. now my question is how well that kind of fitting will hold up if it runs into a slower fleet (assuming contact became unavoidable) using a normal combat fit. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1465
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 15:48:00 -
[884] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Byson1 wrote: You claim to want to help the small groups in null... Why not listen to them? Check out those who have responded.. and what size of alliance/corp they belong to.. see what they suggest. If I could ask for just one thing.. don't mess with logistic ships. jump freighters specifically. no one will hop drop in a freighter anyway. so why not keep them as is. so people can keep the life blood of small alliances moving? they want you to live and build in 0.0 if you need stuff from high sec use a dst and find a k-k wh. or just live close to empire until you have the proper logistical backbone to live garther out. Not just one dude and his 6 alts supplying entire alliance. |
Dras Malar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 17:32:00 -
[885] - Quote
Rahelis wrote:Dras, your tears only show how bad an effect it is to become a risk averse null bear like you are.
Every FW noob in a frig has to think of more factors that you noobs do.
That is why your kind gets butcherd every time you come to low sec - sad but true.
Let's go through the order of operations of a noob in a frigate in some FW plex.
IF enemycoming THEN warpout ELSE shipgoboom
Pretty sure our logical processes involve at least one or two different steps, or else we'd never be getting fights.
Let's just take a moment to parse the argument for these changes while we're at it: Goons are noobs in frigates doing faction warfare. All Goons do is blob the enemy in capital ships. Goons are bad, so we should nerf capital ships. Therefore, bad noobs in frigates blob the enemy in nerfed capital ships. Makes sense to me.
Rahelis wrote: You guys simply do not get it that playing a game is about playing a game.
RIP
Using php scripts for a game and not human interaction is to not understand a game - and I am able to use a telephone.
Playing a game is about playing a game. Got it. Rest in peace, games?
I'm not sure what you mean by php scripts and telephones, though. Your attempts at pithy one-liners do not seem to leave you with sufficient room in which to express yourself.
Rahelis wrote: Your kind is a cancer that has to be purged - simple as it is.
Cancer destroys everything it touches.
There is only one cure to cancer.
Great news that you've discovered the cure to cancer. I'm sure doctors and other people who actually know what they're talking about will love to hear about it. Let me see if I can guess:
Apply grr liberally to the affected area, insert head in posterior. Wait for desired results.
Rahelis wrote: Before I meet goons I fought that the minmatar mili guys where really bad at playing EVE - beeing risk averse carebears.
You might want to try rephrasing that one in English. As far as being risk averse goes, these changes completely eliminate some very important kinds of risk. I think that's actually a bad thing, but that's apparently where we disagree. |
Dras Malar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 17:38:00 -
[886] - Quote
Deck Cadelanne wrote: I can use a phone or IM and get my mates to log in. What I don't expect is to then be able to bridge or jump them, without any risk or further effort, clear across the galaxy to blob somebody.
Again, bridging and jumping capitals and supercapitals completely across the galaxy is not without risk or effort. Just because some nullsec groups have gotten good at it, or because you've never seen it, doesn't mean that it takes no planning or effort. Goons have actually been quite bad at it in the past (if you've ever heard of the infamous Trail of Tears), but they seem to have improved, and of course PL is well-known for being good at it.
Actually these changes nerf PL, the group most threatening to Goons, far more than it nerfs Goons. It takes from them the only tool they had against the CFC, capital ship mobility. People sure do like to complain about these nullsec treaties - well, Goons won't need any more treaties after this, because they won't have anything to fear from entities they will have to treat as equals anymore. They really will be able to just blob them with capitals and win with superior numbers, since their enemies will not be able to bring reinforcements to a fight over sovereignty in Goon space.
Deck Cadelanne wrote: I am struggling to understand why so many null coalition players (not all!) seem to believe that EVE is *their game.*
Making more of EVE gameplay more accessible, in more ways, for more players rather than just for you and your uber-blobs is a good thing, good for the game, good for the playerbase, good for CCP.
Eve is our game, just as much as it is yours. These changes do not seem to improve the game for anyone, they only remove usefulness of some of the ships we use, which to me looks like the game shooting itself in the foot to spite some of its own playerbase. This actually reduces the accessibility of nullsec and does nothing to encourage diversity, it only strengthens entrenched forces, like us. CCP may just as well have built a moat around the north for us.
I have a sneaking suspicion that nullsec groups have become victims of their own success to such an extent that due to the incredible bias against them, it's no longer even possible to communicate rationally about them, and admins are willing to go out of their way to spite them for the sake of it regardless of the consequences. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
165
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 17:53:00 -
[887] - Quote
With Oceanus coalitions such as goonswarm are going to have to adapt radically. There is no bones about it. How many defenders will you really have at your moat? Right now goons pretty much win all their stratops by dropping the meta 200+ archons wherever they want, but I'm afraid this won't be an option for you much come Oceanus.
Your 'moat' is more like a spaghetti strainer, its got lots of holes in it and its leaking lots of tears. Pasta would probably love that analogy.
BL is usually pretty satisfied getting 'gudfites' and the occasional megadunk...but soon we will actually be able to do much more. Hope all your super builds are done in the next few weeks. Good luck defending all of them after that. |
Dras Malar
Cloak and Daggers Fidelas Constans
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:15:00 -
[888] - Quote
The meta is not 200+ Archons. Name the last time 200 Archons were in a fight.
All this talk of pasta straining makes it sound like we can't defend our space at all. How come we still have it then?
The CFC likes fights as well. The only difference is now we know if the fight is in our space and is over something that's actually important, we can escalate and our opponents can't. I seriously don't understand all this talk of how the CFC is suddenly going to lose its space because of TiDi or whatever.
BL does a carrier hotdrop every now and then, don't they? Good luck with that after this patch. |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
239
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 18:44:00 -
[889] - Quote
Dras Malar wrote:The meta is not 200+ Archons. Name the last time 200 Archons were in a fight.
All this talk of pasta straining makes it sound like we can't defend our space at all. How come we still have it then?
The CFC likes fights as well. The only difference is now we know if the fight is in our space and is over something that's actually important, we can escalate and our opponents can't. I seriously don't understand all this talk of how the CFC is suddenly going to lose its space because of TiDi or whatever.
BL does a carrier hotdrop every now and then, don't they? Good luck with that after this patch.
Yes,this change will make the turtles.
The turtles that leave their shells will be easily made into soup. The others will just sit there in the road like stupid scared turtles unless maybe a truck comes along and runs them over.
Future changes will need to address opportunities on how to turn the shelled ones into soup "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13560
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 19:06:00 -
[890] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:Dras Malar wrote:The meta is not 200+ Archons. Name the last time 200 Archons were in a fight.
All this talk of pasta straining makes it sound like we can't defend our space at all. How come we still have it then?
The CFC likes fights as well. The only difference is now we know if the fight is in our space and is over something that's actually important, we can escalate and our opponents can't. I seriously don't understand all this talk of how the CFC is suddenly going to lose its space because of TiDi or whatever.
BL does a carrier hotdrop every now and then, don't they? Good luck with that after this patch. Yes,this change will make the turtles. The turtles that leave their shells will be easily made into soup. The others will just sit there in the road like stupid scared turtles unless maybe a truck comes along and runs them over. Future changes will need to address opportunities on how to turn the shelled ones into soup
So as you were told nerfing power projection has done nothing to our ability to hold our space. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
|
Deck Cadelanne
Exigent Circumstances CAStabouts
52
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 22:31:00 -
[891] - Quote
Dras Malar wrote:
Eve is our game, just as much as it is yours. These changes do not seem to improve the game for anyone, they only remove usefulness of some of the ships we use, which to me looks like the game shooting itself in the foot to spite some of its own playerbase. This actually reduces the accessibility of nullsec and does nothing to encourage diversity, it only strengthens entrenched forces, like us. CCP may just as well have built a moat around the north for us.
Indeed, it is everyone's game but it is apparent that one particular type of playstyle (big coalitions dominating so much of the potential game opportunities) has caused stagnation.
I also note that the jump range nerf is just the first of a series of changes; I suspect the changes to sov mechanics may in fact have a bigger impact on how the big coalitions behave but that is really hard to predict.
Dras Malar wrote:
I have a sneaking suspicion that nullsec groups have become victims of their own success to such an extent that due to the incredible bias against them, it's no longer even possible to communicate rationally about them, and admins are willing to go out of their way to spite them for the sake of it regardless of the consequences.
There is certainly a lot of bad feeling in game and on the forums, and it is definitely bad that is degenerates into such a mud-slinging match so often. There is nothing wrong with success...unless it creates such an imbalance that it kills the whole "ecosystem" it exists in. I guess CCP is concerned enough to act.
Perhaps the key issue here is that the current state of stagnation is not going to change unless there is an intervention that forces player behaviour to change. The results of such an intervention will always be controversial and, because the outcome depends on how the players adapt that outcome is not entirely predictable.
That doesn't mean change is not necessary for the long term health of the game.
|
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13566
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 09:00:00 -
[892] - Quote
Rowells wrote: now my question is how well that kind of fitting will hold up if it runs into a slower fleet (assuming contact became unavoidable) using a normal combat fit.
You only need implants to hit BS warp speeds so they will have a normal combat fit. To hit cruiser speeds you use a high grade implant set, WS-800 and a single t2 rig. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Tahnil
Sirius Fleet
47
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 09:03:00 -
[893] - Quote
First things first: I support the jump drive nerf. You canGÇÿt expect from CCP to break the stagnation of the game and at the same time keep everything as it is.
Now for my questions or concerns.
LetGÇÿs say IGÇÿm an industrialist, and I want to start a business in deep nullsec. For a small independent group there will be limited supply at best. In my thought experiment I will be able to occassionally travel to empire by help of wormhole connections, or as a special mission with a Blockade Runner. Therefore I canGÇÿt move large amounts of cargo. As I see it, right now it is nearly impossible to build a lot of stuff locally.
T1 production might be possible across the bank. But T2 production is a completely different story. Even if I have access to an NPC station with all science and industrial services, I still need Datacores for invention. They can only be imported from Empire, there are no sufficient nullsec-only sources. Next up is the question of moon minerals. Where do I get region-specific moon minerals? Where do I get moon minerals at all, if I am member of a small independent nullsec entity? I canGÇÿs set up a dozen POS at different moons, because as a small independent entity it is impossible to maintain, let alone defend.
Even if my entity would limit itself on small engagements, staged from GÇô-áletGÇÿs say GÇô-áan NPC station in Stain or whereever, I would need access to T2 modules at least. IGÇÿm not even talking about T2 ships, which need a lot more moon minerals to build.
So how do I survive in nullsec without my umbilical cord connecting me to the Jita market? |
Rahelis
Tris Legomenon
119
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 11:49:00 -
[894] - Quote
Dear goons,
this is the first patch/ nerf to PP - more are to follow - we all can read the dec blogs.
You guys simply do not understand that your kind of playing the game destroys the game itself.
Hordes of F1 players that log in on ping is just 100% fail.
Why do you strategical genius`s think is CCP doing this drastic changes?
Null sex is a wasteland - one half of the equation is bad game design, no question.
The other half of the mess is bad playing - that is where you guys enter.
Tahn, null sex indu need a rework in supply terms - CCP is aware of that. The reason CCP divided all the mats all over EVE was to get ppl actually trading stuff over regions - that happend sometimes, but F1 players prefer to jump to Jita in the first place and making null sex worse than high sec.
Imagine null sex player groups that actually trade with each other - and not behave like children on leave from kindergarden. |
Nikk Narrel
Moonlit Bonsai
4395
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 13:15:00 -
[895] - Quote
Tahnil wrote:...
So how do I survive in nullsec without my umbilical cord connecting me to the Jita market? You don't.
Something which many people have not pointed out, is that null sec doesn't work by granting you abilities or opportunities. It works by the ability to deny these abilities and opportunities to others. These abilities, to store items, buy, sell, and generally supply yourself to sustainable levels, are needed for players to interact with each other in a competitive manner. This is why it is choking.
So long as it remains possible for one group to put significant distance between a system, and an opponents ability to interact, that group has decisive leverage against these others.
The wormholes do randomly connect systems, but not in a manner user friendly enough to sustain this interaction here. At least not at a meaningful level to this context.
Like they say in real estate, location location location. Make these locations local to player access, so competitive players are much less obstructed from playing with you, and a change will happen. Upgrading Local to Eliminate All AFK Influence What if Local Chat changed, Hunting the Cloaked... |
Tahnil
Sirius Fleet
47
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 13:57:00 -
[896] - Quote
Nikk Narrel wrote:Tahnil wrote:...
So how do I survive in nullsec without my umbilical cord connecting me to the Jita market? You don't.
I see the necessity to change nullsec mechanics in such a manner that itGÇÿs no longer possible to deny small entities to survive in nullsec without long logistics chains. At least it should be possible for small entities to survive in a very basic manner: replace equipment without Jump Freighters flying to trade hubs etc.
The trick is: the mechanics involved shouldnGÇÿt be very attractive for big entities, because that would work in the wrong direction. It should be similar to a hunter-gatherer versus big real world corporations, colonizing parts of space by means of freight ships and heavy ground equipment.
With regards to moon materials it might be an idea to check if planetary interaction could be extended to moons. PI is a rather personal instrument. It can be made subject to some corporation and even alliance level regulation, but you canGÇÿt exert a tight control, and you are dependent on a lot of individuals. For strong corporations, moon harvester arrays should stay much more interesting than Moon PI. But for small entities Moon PI could be a way to mine (and process) moon minerals in deep nullsec and therefore create some limited supply of items via invention and production.
Just one idea, maybe not the best. But there has to be a way. |
Vyl Vit
843
|
Posted - 2014.10.07 16:52:00 -
[897] - Quote
HVAC Repairman wrote:out of my cold dead hands will you take dominion sov away from me ^ This can always be arranged.
Anyone with any sense has already left town. |
Cardano Firesnake
Les chevaliers de l'ordre Goonswarm Federation
169
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 12:31:00 -
[898] - Quote
I think that this change is a good thing. BUT CCP WILL HAVE TO FIND A USE FOR CAPITALS. Dreadnaught POS bashing was already boring, now you will have to fly it like a freighter... Boring dangerous and expensive. Nearly useless now...
Posted - 2010.07.01 11:24:00 - [4] Erase learning skills, remap all SP. That's all. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8493
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 13:14:00 -
[899] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Good luck with everything, It will be interesting to see what comes out of this. I only have 2 suggestions, about the discussion not about sov: #1. Read this article... Quote:In his TED Talk on spaghetti sauces, Malcolm Gladwell argues that the food industry made a big mistake asking people about their preferences and conducting focus groups. Gladwell says that GÇ£The mind knows not what the tongue wants. [GǪ] If I asked all of you, for example, in this room, what you want in a coffee, you know what youGÇÖd say? Every one of you would say GÇÿI want a dark, rich, hearty roast.GÇÖ ItGÇÖs what people always say when you ask them what they want in a coffee. What do you like? Dark, rich, hearty roast! What percentage of you actually like a dark, rich, hearty roast? According to Howard, somewhere between 25 and 27 percent of you. Most of you like milky, weak coffee. But you will never, ever say to someone who asks you what you want GÇö that GÇÿI want a milky, weak coffee.GÇÖGÇ¥ People always think they know what they want, but many times people are just being idealistic about themselves. What they say they want (and what would be fun) and what players will actually play are 2 different things. Consider actual human nature during your summit (one thing to consi9der, as in rela life, so in game: people don't fight over tings they can just buy). Look at the past, see what people REALLY do vs what they say or think they will do. #2. Do not over-react to the current situation! . Understand it, sure, but don't think there is any easy fix. You will hear a lot of "fix this one thing and everything will be fine" talk. Don't believe it lol. Years ago I played a game called mechwarrior 3. It was cool, but because it was based on a board game's theory of balance, certain weapons (when put in a real time situation) were insanely overpowered such as small lasers and short ranged missiles lol. So the developers of Mech4 prenerfed the unbalanced things in their game, causing a vicious swing to imbalance the other way around (snipers, snipers and more snipers). This is relevant here because in this thread you are going to get a LOT of thinking based on hatred of Goons, Big alliances, Coalitions, the 'blue donut', Capital and Super Capital ships, power projection and all the (truly or falsely percieved) problems of current null. The risk is that over-reacting to these percieved problems might end up making things even worse, in the way that (Super lame and Grindy) Dominion SOV ended up being an over-reaction to the (super lame actually less grindy) system it replaced. Again, good luck with the summit.
just reposting the post that (*given the announced jump drive changes) got completely ignored lol. |
SFM Hobb3s
Wrecking Shots Black Legion.
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Posted - 2014.10.08 13:29:00 -
[900] - Quote
Dras Malar wrote:Deck Cadelanne wrote: I can use a phone or IM and get my mates to log in. What I don't expect is to then be able to bridge or jump them, without any risk or further effort, clear across the galaxy to blob somebody.
Again, bridging and jumping capitals and supercapitals completely across the galaxy is not without risk or effort. Just because some nullsec groups have gotten good at it, or because you've never seen it, doesn't mean that it takes no planning or effort. Goons have actually been quite bad at it in the past (if you've ever heard of the infamous Trail of Tears), but they seem to have improved, and of course PL is well-known for being good at it. Actually these changes nerf PL, the group most threatening to Goons, far more than it nerfs Goons. It takes from them the only tool they had against the CFC, capital ship mobility. People sure do like to complain about these nullsec treaties - well, Goons won't need any more treaties after this, because they won't have anything to fear from entities they will have to treat as equals anymore. They really will be able to just blob them with capitals and win with superior numbers, since their enemies will not be able to bring reinforcements to a fight over sovereignty in Goon space. Deck Cadelanne wrote: I am struggling to understand why so many null coalition players (not all!) seem to believe that EVE is *their game.*
Making more of EVE gameplay more accessible, in more ways, for more players rather than just for you and your uber-blobs is a good thing, good for the game, good for the playerbase, good for CCP.
Eve is our game, just as much as it is yours. These changes do not seem to improve the game for anyone, they only remove usefulness of some of the ships we use, which to me looks like the game shooting itself in the foot to spite some of its own playerbase. This actually reduces the accessibility of nullsec and does nothing to encourage diversity, it only strengthens entrenched forces, like us. CCP may just as well have built a moat around the north for us. I have a sneaking suspicion that nullsec groups have become victims of their own success to such an extent that due to the incredible bias against them, it's no longer even possible to communicate rationally about them, and admins are willing to go out of their way to spite them for the sake of it regardless of the consequences.
Wow you think PL is going to suffer more because 'they only thing they have to counter goons is cap mobility'. I guess you've never gone up against a PL subcap fleet before have you? BL's done so many times, and I'll tell you this, they are very good subcap pilots. This fact alone puts them at a HUGE advantage over goons.
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