Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 14:06:00 -
[1] - Quote
Make renting risky.
People pay for upgrades of system that determinate amount of ore and rats you get in system. It is protected by 1 week of timers and ton of hp. My idea is seperate system owange and system upgrades. Place 1 upgrade hub in each system with 5 timers there is 5 lvles of upgrades. Amount od hp for each stage is medium/large pos hp .. if you lose timer you losing lvl 5 upgrades and all come to lvl 4. In 1 day you can destroy 2 weeks of upgrades and lots of isk invested. It requaire attention from renting empires. Add to that make moon mining effecienty depend from lvl of upgrades lvl 1 =50% lvl 5= 100%.
What it gives you ? You need to protect your space living in null will be more excaiting. It allow to hit alliances not just members that lose some rating ishtar that have 5 already and no one care about them and pillaging is fun. Semi hit in power projection if alliances need to protect thair infrastruture thay can send less people for CTA and deployment. Sins infrastucture and system ownwnership is separete it provide another dimention to fighting to protect infrastrukture and grab systems or harass infrastructure new campaign oportuintes to bring real null sec piracy that pillage.
-Each ship that use Tytan portal should use fuel like jump capable ships. Cross galaxy carrier jump cost 60mln so if you jump 1000 men people fleet across galaxy it cost you already 60bilons. Small alliances dont spend that much beocouse thay dont have that many people.
Do i miss something ? |
Luna Arindale
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
35
|
Posted - 2014.09.12 14:33:00 -
[2] - Quote
I take it English Isn't your first language? I quite literally couldn't understand what you were proposing. |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 15:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
more feedback about idea ? |
Solette Cheli
University of Caille Gallente Federation
17
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 15:29:00 -
[4] - Quote
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't renters rent the system based on the fact that the people they're renting from could do a hostile takeover of the systems anyway, rather than there actually being a renting mechanic? Also, in regards to the Titan bridge idea, it doesn't make much sense since the Titan establishes a portal between the 2 places, the ships just move through it (like a wh). |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2903
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 15:31:00 -
[5] - Quote
So...
What does this mean for conquering systems? Are you suggesting the complete removal of all RF timers by making the ihub into something else entirely?
And what makes you think people are going to willingly shoot several million EHP of structures just to troll their neighbours?
You also have no idea what power projection is. Nor sov mechanics.
Please stop posting. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
680
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 15:38:00 -
[6] - Quote
Taking one of the worst emergent results of current sov mechanics and making it an official part of the game would be terrible. Do you even live in null?
-1 |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 16:08:00 -
[7] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:So...
What does this mean for conquering systems? Are you suggesting the complete removal of all RF timers by making the ihub into something else entirely?
And what makes you think people are going to willingly shoot several million EHP of structures just to troll their neighbours?
You also have no idea what power projection is. Nor sov mechanics.
Please stop posting.
I dont want complete removal of all RF timers i want to add Structure with medium size pos hp responsible for upgrades in systems Upgrades = more anomallys and more ore, better production with little effort of medium pos hp you can destroy and have strategic impact on region making life more risky and fun oposite to what is now 1 week of timers and milions of hp that protect all and no one want to do anything with it.
To bridge idea it hit bigger alliances more than small one , more wallets of line members than alliances but its still better it doesnt need to have sense.
|
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2903
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 16:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Right, so, that means every system will have TWO ihubs then?
And who is going to shoot the best part of thirty million EHP to annoy the neighbours?
And the bridge hit is going to do the exact opposite of what you think. The big alliances have the money to burn on stuff like that. Small ones don't. |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 16:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
in 1 day you destroy 1 medium size pos destroying 1 lvl of upgrades in system is no sanctums for 2 weeks when it upgrade to lvl 5 no better ore.. so if you are small alliance you can harras make some impact force to defent space and not 1 week timers and tons of hp.
cross galaxy jumping for 60b worth of fuel to drop on some 10b fleet on grid will get not much sense eaven deploy in south when your system are so fragile bring problems and lower numbers in fleets.
Place yourself in new alliance you cant harass someone ,destroying some afktars dont have any impact , afk cloaking have some impact, but if you want take systems you have 1 week and half of galaxy atacking you thay can come and camp you becouse thay have same week of hp and timers defending themselfs in home. |
Elusive Panda
Tactical Grace Inc. Nerfed Alliance Go Away
69
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 16:41:00 -
[10] - Quote
I'm against anything that involves MORE structure grinding. This is the worst thing in current null-sec by far. |
|
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2903
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 16:51:00 -
[11] - Quote
TiGGar Shadow wrote:in 1 day you destroy 1 medium size pos destroying 1 lvl of upgrades in system is no sanctums for 2 weeks when it upgrade to lvl 5 no better ore.. so if you are small alliance you can harras make some impact force to defent space and not 1 week timers and tons of hp.
cross galaxy jumping for 60b worth of fuel to drop on some 10b fleet on grid will get not much sense eaven deploy in south when your system are so fragile bring problems and lower numbers in fleets.
Place yourself in new alliance you cant harass someone ,destroying some afktars dont have any impact , afk cloaking have some impact, but if you want take systems you have 1 week and half of galaxy atacking you thay can come and camp you becouse thay have same week of hp and timers defending themselfs in home.
Let's say you take thirty standard fleet megathrons. Y'know, the ones you and I use every day. That's a good sized fleet for a small alliance, right?
It'll take you half an hour to take down that structure. Now, you might think that taking a battleship fleet out to sit on a structure for half an hour is a good idea and will in no way lead to you getting slaughtered, but I disagree on both counts.
Now, in that thirty minutes, not even including reload times, do you think the big guys you're supposed to be harassing are going to ignore you, or drop a hundred angry megas on you? Or a hundred bombers, carriers, whatever.
Now, if your small, new alliance has just lost a battleship fleet for zero impact, since the guys who just killed you are now free to rep what you just did, which is just as mind numbing, what do you do next? Welp another one? How many can you lose before you're out of money?
Now, fcon hold 71 systems. Most of which will have at least hubs in them. Even if this new alliance did blow up one of your ihubs, how much of an impact would it actually have? They'd have wasted half an hour painting a giant bullseye on every asset they have in space, which I assume your leadership would promptly destroy.
In short, who is going to spend their days grinding tens of millions of structure HP just to annoy the neighbours?
And why are you talking about deploying south with titan bridges? That fleet used gates and jump bridges, didn't it? Making titan bridges much more expensive to use actively prevents small groups from using them against groups like ours, which is a BAD THING. |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 17:25:00 -
[12] - Quote
Danika Princip wrote:TiGGar Shadow wrote:in 1 day you destroy 1 medium size pos destroying 1 lvl of upgrades in system is no sanctums for 2 weeks when it upgrade to lvl 5 no better ore.. so if you are small alliance you can harras make some impact force to defent space and not 1 week timers and tons of hp.
cross galaxy jumping for 60b worth of fuel to drop on some 10b fleet on grid will get not much sense eaven deploy in south when your system are so fragile bring problems and lower numbers in fleets.
Place yourself in new alliance you cant harass someone ,destroying some afktars dont have any impact , afk cloaking have some impact, but if you want take systems you have 1 week and half of galaxy atacking you thay can come and camp you becouse thay have same week of hp and timers defending themselfs in home. Let's say you take thirty standard fleet megathrons. Y'know, the ones you and I use every day. That's a good sized fleet for a small alliance, right? It'll take you half an hour to take down that structure. Now, you might think that taking a battleship fleet out to sit on a structure for half an hour is a good idea and will in no way lead to you getting slaughtered, but I disagree on both counts. Now, in that thirty minutes, not even including reload times, do you think the big guys you're supposed to be harassing are going to ignore you, or drop a hundred angry megas on you? Or a hundred bombers, carriers, whatever. Now, if your small, new alliance has just lost a battleship fleet for zero impact, since the guys who just killed you are now free to rep what you just did, which is just as mind numbing, what do you do next? Welp another one? How many can you lose before you're out of money? Now, fcon hold 71 systems. Most of which will have at least hubs in them. Even if this new alliance did blow up one of your ihubs, how much of an impact would it actually have? They'd have wasted half an hour painting a giant bullseye on every asset they have in space, which I assume your leadership would promptly destroy. In short, who is going to spend their days grinding tens of millions of structure HP just to annoy the neighbours? And why are you talking about deploying south with titan bridges? That fleet used gates and jump bridges, didn't it? Making titan bridges much more expensive to use actively prevents small groups from using them against groups like ours, which is a BAD THING.
You got some valid points but how it atm you are protected by ton of hp and timers if you leave reagion go afk with full alliance for week you lose nothing no one come grind region if thay cant keep it. With that change in few days you can at least bring region to desert. Yes when you drop on that 30 megas 150 fleet from titan with that change you already burn 1-2b you dont see that on kb but its aleady something. It honor time that someone put to come to space if all dock up thay can start shoting that structure and force reaction thay can bat phone but it will cost. Destroying infrastructure give some impact for alliance money way more than killing afktars that hit only line members. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2905
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 18:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
But if you have an empty region, WHY would you spend your time shooting ihub upgrades instead of ihubs themselves?
What is the point of something like this? Seriously. it's not a small gang target, it's not a reasonable target for a small alliance (those 150 megas don't need to come through a titan. And besides, you're in the CFC, you know how much ISK we throw around, What makes you think anyone would even notice 1.2b in jump fuel?)
Also, you are aware that your alliance is at ;least in part funded by renters, right? |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 22:52:00 -
[14] - Quote
So what that its founded be renters. Living in null is boring and easy look at PL and they renting empire free isk that dont need to be defended thay can go low sec provi becouse isk printing thereself with no need for defend. Eaven when NC lost Titan battle what was they Strategy fall back if thay want to grind region with that many timers and hp it`s thair problem .. Systems and upgrades should be fragile not rock protected. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
485
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 01:28:00 -
[15] - Quote
TiGGar Shadow wrote:So what that its founded be renters. Living in null is boring and easy look at PL and they renting empire free isk that dont need to be defended thay can go low sec provi becouse isk printing thereself with no need for defend.
Ummm, that's that point. ti avoids turtling. You know instead of staying in the systems you own all the time you go on road trips. Not having to stay at home waiting for pos bash crews daily would be the reason why they can leave.
Rest of this....why?
You can shut down the current ihub upgrades by half assed roaming campaigns with decent daily pressure to hurt numbers ergo the hubs downgrade when the totals are low. And shooting the ratters be a lot more fun imo.
Or...
send in a good number of cloakies Make some afk if so desired. Scarea off the ratters and miners..system starts to downgrade.
Well that and what would be the point of trolling PL (or other larger crew)? At some point they will say fine, you need a lesson so now you get that lesson. You know, the lesson you are trying to avoid not directly going for sov take of the renter system. |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3822
|
Posted - 2014.09.21 02:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Anytime you deal with GoonsGǪ Doesn't that already entail enough risk? I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 00:17:00 -
[17] - Quote
Zan Shiro wrote:TiGGar Shadow wrote:So what that its founded be renters. Living in null is boring and easy look at PL and they renting empire free isk that dont need to be defended thay can go low sec provi becouse isk printing thereself with no need for defend. Ummm, that's that point. ti avoids turtling. You know instead of staying in the systems you own all the time you go on road trips. Not having to stay at home waiting for pos bash crews daily would be the reason why they can leave. Rest of this....why? You can shut down the current ihub upgrades by half assed roaming campaigns with decent daily pressure to hurt numbers ergo the hubs downgrade when the totals are low. And shooting the ratters be a lot more fun imo. Or... send in a good number of cloakies Make some afk if so desired. Scarea off the ratters and miners..system starts to downgrade. Well that and what would be the point of trolling PL (or other larger crew)? At some point they will say fine, you need a lesson so now you get that lesson. You know, the lesson you are trying to avoid not directly going for sov take of the renter system.
Im not saying its not fun shooting ratters but on Strategic lvl you dont have tools to hit alliance , killing ratters hit line members tax from rat go to corp not Alliance. If you want hit Allinace you hit big wall of half of galaxy and ton of hp and week long timers. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2928
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 12:24:00 -
[18] - Quote
TiGGar Shadow wrote:So what that its founded be renters. Living in null is boring and easy look at PL and they renting empire free isk that dont need to be defended thay can go low sec provi becouse isk printing thereself with no need for defend. Eaven when NC lost Titan battle what was they Strategy fall back if thay want to grind region with that many timers and hp it`s thair problem .. Systems and upgrades should be fragile not rock protected.
Is that why you keep saying that THIS huge great wall of EHP should be completely separate from the other huge great walls of EHP?
And you have never bothered to explain why anyone would shoot thirty million EHP of structures in order to mildly annoy the neighbours, and in return have everything they own set on fire. |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 13:44:00 -
[19] - Quote
Atm to annoy the neighbours you need to place SBU grind 3 set of timers and win each of them if not you start from beginning that take 1 week and shooting that structures give you nothing. Valid tactic is left space becouse no one is so masohistic to grind that anyway it defend be itself.
With Infrastructure that can be destroyed it force defending. Renters pay for lvl 5 upgrades full of anomalys that thay can rat and industry that thay can produce. You can destroy it only by taking system. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2928
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 14:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
And
Who
Is
Going
To
Shoot
Thirty
Million
EHP
for
no
real
reason
?
Seriously. Answer the question. What is the intended force to hit one of these targets, and why would that force not either get dropped on, or have something else to do anyway?
If you want small gangs to shoot immobile structures, hit POCOs. If you enjoy shooting inanimate objects all day, shoot lots of pocos. Why would you want to shoot these things? Structure shoots are NOT FUN.
Hell, if you want to make renters lose level 5 upgrades, AFK cloak in their system for a week or two. Bonus points if you blops drop on them a couple of times. |
|
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 14:31:00 -
[21] - Quote
Destroying poco is 40m mail kill a pos is like 200m kill mail ,grinding system is like no kill mails and week of work. Destroying lvl 5 upgrades is few bilions and week of upgrading you see the diffrence ? It force reactions. Small alliances and new one that can make some strategic goals and campaigns. AFK cloaker do nothing if im in deployment in south and in north are 500 afk cloakers in each system so what ?. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1261
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 14:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
TiGGar Shadow wrote:Destroying poco is 40m mail kill a pos is like 200m kill mail ,grinding system is like no kill mails and week of work. Destroying lvl 5 upgrades is few bilions and week of upgrading you see the diffrence ? It force reactions. Small alliances and new one that can make some strategic goals and campaigns. AFK cloaker do nothing if im in deployment in south and in north are 500 afk cloakers in each system so what ?.
You really think people will shoot through 30 million Hp worth of structure for a lousy kill mail?
Killing a POS or POCO free up that moon/planet so you can put yours. Killing the HUB if you won't claim the system is downright useless. How many I-hubs do you have to kill for the SOV owner to start losing ISK because the current price per month is under the HUB consumption?
And all that is ignoring the fact that if the current owner get's pissed enough, there isn't much stopping him from dropping a boot fleet or any other coalition's equivalent on your battleships and wrecking you before repping the damage you dealth. |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 14:47:00 -
[23] - Quote
"You really think people will shoot through 30 million Hp worth of structure for a lousy kill mail?"
No for tears from renters and ratters and alliances that need to rebuild it.
|
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
693
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 15:32:00 -
[24] - Quote
TiGGar Shadow wrote:"You really think people will shoot through 30 million Hp worth of structure for a lousy kill mail?"
No for tears from renters and ratters and alliances that need to rebuild it. Why bother when a cloaky camper and a couple of black ops drops will do the same thing even better? Besides. structure shoots are not fun and prone to hot drops. |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1261
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 15:35:00 -
[25] - Quote
TiGGar Shadow wrote:"You really think people will shoot through 30 million Hp worth of structure for a lousy kill mail?"
No for tears from renters and ratters and alliances that need to rebuild it.
Sure, let's bash a structure in null for around 30 minutes in case the owner care enough to shed some tears instead of just replacing it and restarting normal operation... |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 16:13:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ehh
Place yourself in Alliance ceo position what are your expenses: sov bill , sov upgrades , inftrastrutures pos , srp your income: moon mining , renters, some ise from members tax.
Corp ceo what are your expanses: capital programs and some small projects , your income: ratting taxes
Afk cloaker hit line member so only corp do nothing to alliances.
You are ceo of small enemy alliance that want to harrass big alliance what you do beside sov war that you dont have chance and afk cloaking that hit line members and corp ? The best way that game have to offer to harrass is cloaky camping and alt tab to other game is valid ? |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2929
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 16:49:00 -
[27] - Quote
If a small alliance decided to harass fcon by blowing up an ihub, are you honestly saying that your leadership would not drop on them every time they started, smash literally every asset they had in space, call in the rest of the CFC to do the same, and generally make life hell for them?
As has been asked five or six times now, WHO IS GOING TO DO THIS?
If you are a small group and want to harass a big one, blops drop their ratters. Roam their space and kill people. Third party on their fights. Pipebomb fleets. Get spies in and act on whatever info you can receive. Awox. Siphon moons. Chase stragglers, gank ratters, roam, camp gates and JBs, AFK cloak, the list goes on.
Nothing on that list involves sitting in space for a large amount of time, shooting a structure with millions of EHP, while waving a giant 'please hotdrop us' flag around. |
TiGGar Shadow
CBC Interstellar Fidelas Constans
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 17:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
And if there is 10 small alliances that harass all part of cfc do you think we will be flying whole galaxy to save some ihub evry day ? Tech moons requaire knowlage where to scan and so on this will be simpler. Your reaction saying me that it could achive response and risk in space need to active defending your systems and not relaying on week of timers that defend themselfs.
Can you really call harrasment some destroyed afktar that no one give a **** to lose and have 5 already becouse thay making so much money you don`t care ? and it harras only line members and i want harrass alliance lvl income.
Your ideas requaire people in space and if im not ratting but im on deployment in another part of galaxy im simply not in home so your ideas do nothing they need to wait when i come back to home ? |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2929
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 17:29:00 -
[29] - Quote
Fcon has 3000+ members. TNT is over 2400. If there were multiple small groups that could overwhelm either of our alliances, or SMA's 2k, or FA's 2.5k, they wouldn't be hitting pointless system upgrades. If there were ten forces hitting the CFC that required full deployments to fight, the ones we didn't deploy to would be taking the regions.
Tech moons are not hard to find. Dotlan has a list, pasta (I think?) leaked a list years ago, there are others around as well. They're also not actually worth the money a lot of people think they are.
Can you really call something harassment if it involves sitting in space with a fleet of fifty guys for half an hour, and praying you don't get noticed?
Gank enough AFKtars and someone is going to notice. Please note, however, that I did not list killing AFK ishtars as the only way to harass an alliance. I will repeat myself, just for you.
Quote:blops drop their ratters. Roam their space and kill people. Third party on their fights. Pipebomb fleets. Get spies in and act on whatever info you can receive. Awox. Siphon moons. Chase stragglers, gank ratters, roam, camp gates and JBs, AFK cloak, the list goes on.
One AFKtar might not get notices, but what about a ratting carrier? Or a pipebomb that destroys most of a fleet? or a blops drop that kills a blinged to hell tengu? Or one of those suicidal cap/super pilots camping JBs to ruin jump freighters? Or gatecamps popping in after the main body of a fleet has moved through to kill anyone trying to catch up, or run away?
Please note as well that just because you have deployed elsewhere does NOT mean people aren't using their home space. Alts, jumpclones and people who simply couldn't be bothered to deploy all exist, and people always need to make the ISK to replace their stuff of plex their account.
Now, in light of all this, can you explain how shooting a huge all of structure HP is ever going to be a thing that people want to do more of?
Why is it hard for you to understand that shooting a massive wall of EHP in the hopes that you don't get dropped on, lose everything you own and with an end result of maybe making someone move to the system next door is not going to be a popular option? |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8276
|
Posted - 2014.09.22 17:44:00 -
[30] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:Taking one of the worst emergent results of current sov mechanics and making it an official part of the game would be terrible. Do you even live in null?
-1
+1
To the OP: Renting is a symptom of CCP's game design choices, and not even just null game design choices. The introduction of Incursions (namely the high sec version), worlmholes, faction warfare (both pvp itself and later with the pve and pvp rewards scheme), and other changes, Null sec went from being the go-to place for certain things (like an income above a certain level with the exception bineg the old high sec lvl 5 bug) to being a purely optional place to 'live' and earn pilot level income.
Renters LOVE anomalies because of the liquid isk (no having to convert LP) and low barrier to entry (a noob with a Vexor navy Issue or Oracale can start making isk in an upgraded system, but as player get more advanced in pve isk making, it's off to shiney high sec incursion fleets or stealth bombers in FW missions or the real isk (high end wormhole farming with a group) or lvl 5 missions (with mutiple carriers spread out across the systems the lvl 5 missions will spawn in meaning you don't need to cyno in). Null used to be the place for high end isk making via high end DED sites but not anymore.
The above and other reasons makes null sec 'fly over' territory and results in the 'emergent gameplay' of "lets takes space so that lower skilled players and smaller groups can rent from us". Renting is, again, just a symptom.
|
|
|
|
|
Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |