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Pottsey
Gallente Dissonance Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:07:00 -
[61]
I donÆt know about everyone else but my Domi never undocks without a afterburner or Microwarp and a smartbomb usually an officer bomb with a nice long range(long range as smart bombs go)
WhatÆs the range of rockets? All you have to do is move a little closer with microwarp to the frigs and let off a smart bomb or two. ItÆs about the last thing they expect and it doesnÆt even matter if your jammed.
Passive shield tanking guide, click here. |
Dahin
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:27:00 -
[62]
Are you serious people?
A domi? vs 4 kestrels? What is this? a test to see how silly a forum discussion can get?
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Vladimir Norkoff
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:47:00 -
[63]
Curious - Alot of people are babbling about ECM on a Kestrel.. Why would people bother putting a MultiSpec on a Kessie?.. Dampeners would work better in groups vs a single target - they're easier on the cap and (iirc) they don't have a chance at failure.. A BS with a targeting range of 5km is just a big target to abuse.. Seems that would make life a heck of alot eaiser for the frigs.. Personally, I wouldn't try only 4 Kesies vs a Domi unless I knew for a fact that the Domi pilot was a collosal idiot..
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:52:00 -
[64]
Toss light missiles instead of rockets on the Kessies, stay out of nos range (20-25km), toss gently before serving, and enjoy.
Makes the dampers work even better (he cant target you at 20km regardless), the Kestrels are faster(ab if you please), drones wont matter much when he cant lock you in the first place.
Flame away. _______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
-"Conquest Through Industry"-
UTSC FTW!
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Deja Thoris
Contraband Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.02 18:56:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Terraform Ewar and nos does not kill the kestrels, and the drones will probably be owned by the huge amount of rockets. Please explain a bit more in detail :)
Got this far and stopped reading.
You asked if it could survive them, not "own" them.
Yes, it could survive them pretty easily.
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Heartbreak Harriet
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:01:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Heartbreak Harriet on 02/08/2006 19:02:22
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Toss light missiles instead of rockets on the Kessies, stay out of nos range (20-25km), toss gently before serving, and enjoy.
Makes the dampers work even better (he cant target you at 20km regardless), the Kestrels are faster(ab if you please), drones wont matter much when he cant lock you in the first place.
Flame away.
Light missiles wouldn't even come close to breaking the Dominix's tank, not even kinetic furies. Not to mention the fact that if you're floating outside of 21km, you're also out of scram and web range, so the Domi can just leave anyway.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:14:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Admiral Pelleon on 02/08/2006 19:17:46 Well, with TII launchers and TII lights (kinetic), factoring in ONLY the kestrel's inherent kinetic bonus, I get 210 raw armor DPS (this is only kinetic damage and armor damage(NO skills factored in at all), the shield on a domi might as well not exist for the purpose of this discussion). 210 DPS - whatever the resisted DPS is from his armor. Now, do you think a domi can rep at 210 DPS - resist forever?
Remember, this isnt about running away or whatever, its if he can survive it. Anyways, toss a 20km warp-scram on one of them. Problem solved.
(disclaimer, I didn't do the math on damper strength, etc. so this is all IIRC)
_______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |
Kyreax
Gallente Rising Sun Coalition
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:17:00 -
[68]
No. 4 of these would have to have a PERFECT setup vs. the Domi. Possible? Maybe. Probable? not at all.
The OP question was "Fully skilled" vs. "fully skilled". Well, a fully skilled Domi pilot will have a bunch of tech 2 if not faction and / or officer fittings and hardeners, and the "full skills" to use them.
The ONLY way this little fleet could hack it was if they stumbled upon a dominix that was fitted with a bunch of nanofibers for travelling. AND - they 100% jammed it and scrammed it before the drones were out. How likely is that?
Frigates are NOT supposed to be able to take out a battleship. Even a few of them together. It's just not what they were designed to do. Now, 20 of them, I could see. Like a Kamakazi attack. I'd like to see that. |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:19:00 -
[69]
I suppose you're right, it'd take alot more work on the frig-squad to do it, and the domi has a much better chance regardless. I could see 6 or 8 of them having a field day though.
_______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |
Heartbreak Harriet
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:21:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Heartbreak Harriet on 02/08/2006 19:23:03 Calc it again, four Kestrels can't even do that much damage, even with rockets.
Assuming maxed skills:
Standard missile launcher II
RoF 12 seconds * .9 * .85 = 9.18, 8.2161 with a BCU 2
Fury lights do 90 damage, 204 with max skills and a BCU 2
With four Kessies, that's 397 damage before resists, or 99 if the Domi has about 75% average resist, which isn't hard to get. This is also with a BCU 2 fitted, which you can't do with a 20km disruptor fitted because of CPU issues.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:25:00 -
[71]
Um. Fury lights do this:
90 kinetic. 54 shield. 67.5 armor.
You're neglecting the 67.5 armor unless I'm just a complete fool and the shield and armor damage don't mean anything.
Which is entirely possible. _______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |
Heartbreak Harriet
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:27:00 -
[72]
The two other numbers are just the average damage the missile does against base shield and armor resists, they don't get added on. Fury lights only do 90 damage.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:28:00 -
[73]
Now I feel silly.
Oh well. Guess it's practically impossible without either a huge gang of them, or a mentally handicapped domi pilot.
_______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |
Pottsey
Gallente Dissonance Corp Interstellar Starbase Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:30:00 -
[74]
Edited by: Pottsey on 02/08/2006 19:31:06 ö the shield on a domi might as well not exist for the purpose of this discussion). 210 DPS - whatever the resisted DPS is from his armor. Now, do you think a domi can rep at 210 DPS - resist forever?ö Shields should count as chances are the Domi would kill the targets or do a lot of harm to them before its shield even dropped to 0 and it has to use an active amour tank. As for 210dps raw thatÆs extremely easy to tank 24/7 with a Domi. Both my passive shield tank and active amour tank wouldnÆt have a problem with that.
The way I see it two things happen. The Domi microwarps close and smartbombs the frigates before they know what hits them. If they warp scrabble and stay out of smartbomb range then they are not jamming you, so lock and use your drones instead. That or just wait for there cap to run dry then hit them.
The domi with 1 setup can counter both the frigate setups. So itÆs a no win situation for the frigates.
Passive shield tanking guide, click here. |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 19:33:00 -
[75]
Perhaps, my point was that you wouldn't get a chance to lock them in the first place. Like this:
Domi's chillin' in a belt, whistling to himself. 4 Kestrels warp in, start targeting. Before the domi can target back, they sensor-damp him. Kestrels orbit at 19-20km. etc etc etc.
Smartbombs are too far off. You can't attack them unless you've got magical FoF's on a Domi.
Anyways. I lose. _______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |
Yakov Krasnov
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.02 20:06:00 -
[76]
I'm going to use a horrific tactic from an old dead philosopher guy called Chisolming. Those of you who know what that means, feel free to run screaming now.
Basically there are two situations that will happen going into this fight, either it is arranged, or it is by chance.
If it is arranged, then everybody can use racial ECM, rig specifically for killing the opponent, and the starting range will be most likely known.
If it is arranged, the starting range is known, and beyond ECM range, the Domi can show up with sentry drones, railguns, and sensor boosters, Kestrels lose.
If it is arranged, starting range is unknown or less than ECM range, the Domi can't jam all the Kestrels before a Kestrel gets a jam on the Domi, so Kestrels win.
If the fight is not arranged, then everybody would have to be rigged for some amount of tackling, which neither ship can do and jam enough to make a difference at the same time. The Kestrels can scramble and with one or two, then jam with the other two, and have a fair chance at beating the Domi if they can keep the jam going. If the Domi stays jammed and scrambled, Kestrels win.
The Domi may have fitted enough stabs to beat the +4 scramble strength. If so, then there is no clear winner, but most likely there will be a partial victory for the Kestrels driving off the Domi if they can keep it jammed.
If the Kestrels fit for straight tackling, then they can leave at will, but can't jam so the Domi may be able to NOS them to the point where the tackling fails and leave, if nobody tries to leave at that point then it comes down to DPS and tanking.
If they can't keep it jammed, the Kestrels can more or less leave at will, though they may suffer some losses, partial victory for the Domi.
Sound about right to y'all? ----------------------------------------------- Mercenary minded - I'll fly whatever works best. |
Sebastien LeReparteur
Minmatar SpaceTravelers Freelance Corp The Imperial Order
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Posted - 2006.08.02 20:51:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Yakov Krasnov I'm going to use a horrific tactic from an old dead philosopher guy called Chisolming. Those of you who know what that means, feel free to run screaming now.
Basically there are two situations that will happen going into this fight, either it is arranged, or it is by chance.
If it is arranged, then everybody can use racial ECM, rig specifically for killing the opponent, and the starting range will be most likely known.
If it is arranged, the starting range is known, and beyond ECM range, the Domi can show up with sentry drones, railguns, and sensor boosters, Kestrels lose.
If it is arranged, starting range is unknown or less than ECM range, the Domi can't jam all the Kestrels before a Kestrel gets a jam on the Domi, so Kestrels win.
If the fight is not arranged, then everybody would have to be rigged for some amount of tackling, which neither ship can do and jam enough to make a difference at the same time. The Kestrels can scramble and with one or two, then jam with the other two, and have a fair chance at beating the Domi if they can keep the jam going. If the Domi stays jammed and scrambled, Kestrels win.
The Domi may have fitted enough stabs to beat the +4 scramble strength. If so, then there is no clear winner, but most likely there will be a partial victory for the Kestrels driving off the Domi if they can keep it jammed.
If the Kestrels fit for straight tackling, then they can leave at will, but can't jam so the Domi may be able to NOS them to the point where the tackling fails and leave, if nobody tries to leave at that point then it comes down to DPS and tanking.
If they can't keep it jammed, the Kestrels can more or less leave at will, though they may suffer some losses, partial victory for the Domi.
Sound about right to y'all?
Domi will probably have a 20 km scrambler too. Remember that it still as 6 med slots... Could have a targeting module (can't remember name) and a t2 probably...
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Dethis
Caldari Eve University The Big Blue
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Posted - 2006.08.02 20:55:00 -
[78]
I honestly cant believe this made it to 3 pages rofl -------- Kill em all and let god sort em out
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Testicular Testes
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Posted - 2006.08.02 20:58:00 -
[79]
The real question is, how many 4 year olds could a Dominix take?
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xenodia
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:00:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Edited by: Admiral Pelleon on 02/08/2006 19:17:46 Well, with TII launchers and TII lights (kinetic), factoring in ONLY the kestrel's inherent kinetic bonus, I get 210 raw armor DPS (this is only kinetic damage and armor damage(NO skills factored in at all), the shield on a domi might as well not exist for the purpose of this discussion). 210 DPS - whatever the resisted DPS is from his armor. Now, do you think a domi can rep at 210 DPS - resist forever?
Remember, this isnt about running away or whatever, its if he can survive it. Anyways, toss a 20km warp-scram on one of them. Problem solved.
(disclaimer, I didn't do the math on damper strength, etc. so this is all IIRC)
that 210 raw armor kinetic dps becomes about 50-55 dps after resists (figure an average domi is going to have 70-75% kinetic resist, and thats being conservative and assuming hes trying to tank up his explosive too, otherwise it will be higher). You can tank that damage with one large armor rep II, and run it till the server goes down.
TNT Killboard |
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xenodia
Gallente Trinity Nova
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:05:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Admiral Pelleon Perhaps, my point was that you wouldn't get a chance to lock them in the first place. Like this:
Domi's chillin' in a belt, whistling to himself. 4 Kestrels warp in, start targeting. Before the domi can target back, they sensor-damp him. Kestrels orbit at 19-20km. etc etc etc.
Smartbombs are too far off. You can't attack them unless you've got magical FoF's on a Domi.
Anyways. I lose.
Your scenario with a competent domi pilot would unfold like this though...
Domi's chillin' in a belt, whistling to himself. 4 Kestrels warp in, domi immediately launches drones Kestrels start targeting. Before the domi can target back, they sensor-damp him. Drones see the aggression, and wtfpwn the kestrels Kestrels die in about 30 seconds.
TNT Killboard |
Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:13:00 -
[82]
I totally forgot drones can do that.
Ahhh!
I'm going to go shoot something. _______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |
Ris Dnalor
Minmatar Khumatari Holdings Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:39:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Ris Dnalor on 02/08/2006 21:39:45
Originally by: MOS DEF Since this is not a made up fight as you claim the kessies will come with multispecs (or worse wrong racials). The kessie is the ship with the worst cap i ever came across. I haven`t tested it but i am quite sure it wont run a multispec forever.
I think the cassies cap out A LOT before the domi ever gets into cap problems (runs out of charges). Kessie cap gone - boom boom boom boom 4 pods.
actually you can run a hypnos multispec forever on a Kessie
Quote: 00362 | [ 1 | 40] 'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I(13002) => -76.8 00362 | Capacitor : 74.07% 00361 | Capacitor : 72.97% 00360 | Capacitor : 71.83% 00359 | Capacitor : 70.64% 00358 | Capacitor : 69.41% 00357 | Capacitor : 68.13% 00356 | Capacitor : 66.8% 00355 | Capacitor : 65.43% 00354 | Capacitor : 64.0% 00353 | Capacitor : 62.53% 00352 | Capacitor : 61.01% 00351 | Capacitor : 59.43% 00350 | Capacitor : 57.81% 00349 | Capacitor : 56.14% 00348 | Capacitor : 54.41% 00347 | Capacitor : 52.64% 00346 | Capacitor : 50.82% 00345 | Capacitor : 48.95% 00344 | Capacitor : 47.03% 00343 | Capacitor : 45.07% 00342 | [ 1 | 40] 'Hypnos' Multispectral ECM I(13002) => -76.8
-- Talking in Circles is more dizzying than walking in them...
Tralala |
Lienzo
Minmatar
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:40:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Lienzo on 02/08/2006 21:44:06 Fit all of the kestrels with scramblers and sensor dampers and aggress before he unloads drones.
If he has between 4-12 damps on him, you will wtfpwn his drones, and he will probably try to wait for lock before launching another wave of drones. Damps are quite easy going on the capacitor.
If you can fit mwd as well, you might even be able to take turns swimming out of his lock range. Do not fit any tank. Focus on capacitor, and dps if you've got cap stable. DPS is secondary, b/c he will eventually go down to 4 frigates even with normal dps. (If you can get your gang members to sync their activations, you can also use damps in manual mode really really effectively.)
The tricky part will be keeping scrams on him. 6-7 pts might not be enough, and you might lose him anyhow without a 20km disruptor on.
Seven Deadly Sins
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White Ronin
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Posted - 2006.08.02 21:46:00 -
[85]
Ummm... Or bring 4 cruisers instead of 4 frigates?
Just trying to be constructive.
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Admiral Pelleon
Caldari United Territories Space Command
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Posted - 2006.08.02 22:06:00 -
[86]
Wouldn't an AB fitted kestrel be able to outrun most of the drone's damage? _______________________________________________
* United Territories Space Command *
I fly a Succubus. Big ugly ships are no fun at all. :D |
Dahin
Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.03 14:17:00 -
[87]
there is a saying where I come from: "if my grandma had wheels, she'd be a rollerblade"
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