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mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.13 14:58:00 -
[1] - Quote
Please fix Nestor.
My proposal is this:
Remove the energy turret bonus and add 5% extra for drone damage per level = Very unique Drone ship
Then reduce the insane arm rep bonus to 50% and add a jumpdrive max 7ly with no possibility to bridge. That leaves Black Ops ships unique in their own way.
Dont need cov ops cyno.
Thats it..
With this, nestor becomes a nullsec exploration vessel for many many players from highsec. Pilot skills will decide if u will survive in it or not. |
Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2894
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Posted - 2014.09.13 17:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
mannyman wrote:
With this, nestor becomes a nullsec exploration vessel for many many players from highsec. Pilot skills will decide if u will survive in it or not.
How, given that they'd still need to get a cyno (or are you saying they wouldn't need a regular cyno either?) to wherever they were trying to jump to? Might as well just use a carrier.
If you're asaking for a ship that can jump without the use of a cyno, then the intended market is not highsec explorers, it's nullsec gangs. Frankly, I'd rather it not be completely and utterly impossible to stop a hotdrop no matter what you try to do. |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2643
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Posted - 2014.09.13 21:50:00 -
[3] - Quote
The Nestor already is a very unique drone ship - it's a drone ship with no clear purpose and an absurdly high price tag.
If your goal is uniqueness, it's already done. Otherwise, these proposed changes are terrible. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
92
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Posted - 2014.09.13 23:09:00 -
[4] - Quote
A jumpdrive with 7 LY distance... What the hell for? Are you high? |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
186
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Posted - 2014.09.13 23:33:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sounds interesting, but useless for a W-space ship, where you can't light cynos. I agree laser range might not be the most interesting bonus ever, but it has its uses, as does the big repping power. |
mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.14 01:43:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not high, just good idea to let the Nestor become a very cool nice ship to explore 0.0 with.
It uses normal cyno offcourse.
Carrier is big and clumpsy, dont want to explore in that. too slow.
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Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
58
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Posted - 2014.09.14 02:52:00 -
[7] - Quote
Nestor is fine. It's the premiere anti-gank and station camper logi vessel. High-sec dream ship.
It excels at those roles just fine, but could perhaps use a bonus to reduction of remote rep capacitor usage.
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2898
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Posted - 2014.09.14 11:31:00 -
[8] - Quote
mannyman wrote:Not high, just good idea to let the Nestor become a very cool nice ship to explore 0.0 with.
It uses normal cyno offcourse.
Carrier is big and clumpsy, dont want to explore in that. too slow.
But you're not going to be going any faster in this thing than in a carrier, and you're dead either way if you get caught. Chimeras and archons cost about the same as a nestor too.
If you want to cyno around in a battleship to explore stuff, use a black ops. They can use regular cynos as well as the covert kind. |
mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.15 21:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Did u ever try exploring in a black ops ? The tank and cap is terrible, but it has its role, bridging and jumping. not battle.
My idea here with Nestor is to give it more unique role. Something that isnt there today. Ability for players with the right wallet and wish to explore in a ship with good drone dps and tank to run around in nullsec with their friend cynoing them around.
It gives nullsec people more visitors to shoot at, and highsec people the opportunity to get around if piloted right.
with 2 pilots running each nestor, they can fit cloak up if a threat arrives. This is down to piloting skills to survive, not the ship itself.
Carriers have their uniqueness in tank size and drones.
Nestor will be a BS with a jumpdrive, agile and fun to operate in nullsec. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
683
|
Posted - 2014.09.15 21:19:00 -
[10] - Quote
mannyman wrote:Did u ever try exploring in a black ops ? The tank and cap is terrible, but it has its role, bridging and jumping. not battle.
My idea here with Nestor is to give it more unique role. Something that isnt there today. Ability for players with the right wallet and wish to explore in a ship with good drone dps and tank to run around in nullsec with their friend cynoing them around.
It gives nullsec people more visitors to shoot at, and highsec people the opportunity to get around if piloted right.
with 2 pilots running each nestor, they can fit cloak up if a threat arrives. This is down to piloting skills to survive, not the ship itself.
Carriers have their uniqueness in tank size and drones.
Nestor will be a BS with a jumpdrive, agile and fun to operate in nullsec. If are willing to use star gates a T3 will do all of the above just fine already. A cloaky nullified T3 is actually harder to catch than a ship that uses standard cynos to get around. |
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mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:23:00 -
[11] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:mannyman wrote:Did u ever try exploring in a black ops ? The tank and cap is terrible, but it has its role, bridging and jumping. not battle.
My idea here with Nestor is to give it more unique role. Something that isnt there today. Ability for players with the right wallet and wish to explore in a ship with good drone dps and tank to run around in nullsec with their friend cynoing them around.
It gives nullsec people more visitors to shoot at, and highsec people the opportunity to get around if piloted right.
with 2 pilots running each nestor, they can fit cloak up if a threat arrives. This is down to piloting skills to survive, not the ship itself.
Carriers have their uniqueness in tank size and drones.
Nestor will be a BS with a jumpdrive, agile and fun to operate in nullsec. If are willing to use star gates a T3 will do all of the above just fine already. A cloaky nullified T3 is actually harder to catch than a ship that uses standard cynos to get around.
Your right, the T3 with nullifed and cloak with mobile depot is doing some of this, but uses stargates. It still have to get through the 0.0--lowsec entry points and further. Also have to get through camps. Nestor with a fixed LY range for jumpdrive set to 7ly which is equivalent to BLOPS at jump drive cal lvl 4 gives a new mechanic to the game.
The ship doesnt need a cloak at all, the t2 improved cloak and prototype is good enough to hide, but this is piloting skills and not panick in situations that arrives inside the solar system.
With added drone dps, and removing the laser bonus, Nestor becomes something we havent seen before. It can still rep its buddy, just within closer range hence take down repping distance from 100% to 50% instead.
I havent seen Nestor in any bigger fleets, to big, too clumpsy and too expencive to sacrifice as a repper. Mabye in Wormholes where C5/C6 sites are done. But nowhere else. We got the great guardians and scimis already.
These proposals will change the solo mechanic, so we get a jump capable ship for very small gangs of people to explore 0.0. Do sites, have fun, and run around. Big enough fuel tank to run back and forth and around. 1400m3 fuel tank or something.
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mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
One more thing,
Making the nestor more specific, like removing laser bonus, giving it more drone dps, and removing repping range and give it jumpdrive gives the ship a vision within SoE branch - exploration.
Vision is a strong word. At the moment the Nestor doesnt have a vision. It does different things badly, repping, not good enough, drones without tracking not good enough. Too big to be a pure repper. etc.
Give the ship something it does very well - a vision.
Give SoE a vision with the top of the line ship.
I dont mind as a player to pay 1.5b for a ship that has a strong vision. As long as it does it well. Thats why people are excited about carriers, carriers does the things well for what its supposed to do. Same with BLOPS, they do it well for what its supposed to do. Also Vexor Navy issue as a damage dealer over time - does it well. |
Lucrii Dei
Vector Galactic The Big Dirty
32
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Posted - 2014.09.18 14:15:00 -
[13] - Quote
I don't really think there is anything the Nestor would do that another ship can't do better in exploration. A battleship doesn't belong in K-Space data and relic sites. Strategic cruisers are a smaller and faster choice for combat sites. GöÇGòó The Explorer I GöÇGòó The Explorer II (Coming Soon!)
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2921
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Posted - 2014.09.18 14:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
mannyman wrote:Did u ever try exploring in a black ops ? The tank and cap is terrible, but it has its role, bridging and jumping. not battle.
My idea here with Nestor is to give it more unique role. Something that isnt there today. Ability for players with the right wallet and wish to explore in a ship with good drone dps and tank to run around in nullsec with their friend cynoing them around.
It gives nullsec people more visitors to shoot at, and highsec people the opportunity to get around if piloted right.
with 2 pilots running each nestor, they can fit cloak up if a threat arrives. This is down to piloting skills to survive, not the ship itself.
Carriers have their uniqueness in tank size and drones.
Nestor will be a BS with a jumpdrive, agile and fun to operate in nullsec.
It's not a unique role if you are literally describing a carrier with half the range.
What is the difference between your nestor and a carrier, other than the use of gates? Either way, a highsec bear trying to use one of these the way you describe is going to die in a blaze of stupidity. |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
512
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Posted - 2014.09.18 15:34:00 -
[15] - Quote
All the Nestor needs to make it genuinely viable is a Cap Reduction bonus on the reps, probably in favour of those ****** exploration bonuses that nobody cares about. |
Daide Vondrichnov
SnaiLs aNd FroGs
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 15:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
mannyman wrote:Please fix Nestor.
My proposal is this:
Remove the energy turret bonus and add 5% extra for drone damage per level = Very unique Drone ship
Then reduce the insane arm rep bonus to 50% and add a jumpdrive max 7ly with no possibility to bridge. That leaves Black Ops ships unique in their own way.
Dont need cov ops cyno.
Thats it..
With this, nestor becomes a nullsec exploration vessel for many many players from highsec. Pilot skills will decide if u will survive in it or not.
it would be too powerfull, like hotdropping with T3 and nestor as logi then refit them into combat fit thanks to the SMA and you've got the ultimate hotdropping fleet. |
mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Daide Vondrichnov wrote:mannyman wrote:Please fix Nestor.
My proposal is this:
Remove the energy turret bonus and add 5% extra for drone damage per level = Very unique Drone ship
Then reduce the insane arm rep bonus to 50% and add a jumpdrive max 7ly with no possibility to bridge. That leaves Black Ops ships unique in their own way.
Dont need cov ops cyno.
Thats it..
With this, nestor becomes a nullsec exploration vessel for many many players from highsec. Pilot skills will decide if u will survive in it or not. it would be too powerfull, like hotdropping with T3 and nestor as logi then refit them into combat fit thanks to the SMA and you've got the ultimate hotdropping fleet.
sure, lets make it a expencive hotdropping fleet.. Im up for that.
Yeah, if HS players go to 0.0 in this they will face challenges. some die, some clever pilots survive in em. then again, mission accomplished. a ship that allow people to do that. |
ashley Eoner
346
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:33:00 -
[18] - Quote
mannyman wrote:Did u ever try exploring in a black ops ? The tank and cap is terrible, but it has its role, bridging and jumping. not battle.
My idea here with Nestor is to give it more unique role. Something that isnt there today. Ability for players with the right wallet and wish to explore in a ship with good drone dps and tank to run around in nullsec with their friend cynoing them around.
It gives nullsec people more visitors to shoot at, and highsec people the opportunity to get around if piloted right.
with 2 pilots running each nestor, they can fit cloak up if a threat arrives. This is down to piloting skills to survive, not the ship itself.
Carriers have their uniqueness in tank size and drones.
Nestor will be a BS with a jumpdrive, agile and fun to operate in nullsec. It already has some unique roles. Your plan just kills those roles without introducing anything new or unique. I'd rather use other ships for those actions. Either because the nestor costs much more or just doesn't bring the capabilities of similar costing ships etc etc.
I'd rather use a t3 by miles. With the money I would of spent on a nestor I could pimp fit a t3. As stated earlier you're just creating a carrier with crap range and a fraction of power. While killing off the unique roles the nestor fulfills in highsec (and some lowsec/wh roams). |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13257
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 18:40:00 -
[19] - Quote
You are not getting a jump drive on it. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:42:00 -
[20] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:mannyman wrote:Did u ever try exploring in a black ops ? The tank and cap is terrible, but it has its role, bridging and jumping. not battle.
My idea here with Nestor is to give it more unique role. Something that isnt there today. Ability for players with the right wallet and wish to explore in a ship with good drone dps and tank to run around in nullsec with their friend cynoing them around.
It gives nullsec people more visitors to shoot at, and highsec people the opportunity to get around if piloted right.
with 2 pilots running each nestor, they can fit cloak up if a threat arrives. This is down to piloting skills to survive, not the ship itself.
Carriers have their uniqueness in tank size and drones.
Nestor will be a BS with a jumpdrive, agile and fun to operate in nullsec. It already has some unique roles. Your plan just kills those roles without introducing anything new or unique. I'd rather use other ships for those actions. Either because the nestor costs much more or just doesn't bring the capabilities of similar costing ships etc etc. I'd rather use a t3 by miles. With the money I would of spent on a nestor I could pimp fit a t3. As stated earlier you're just creating a carrier with crap range and a fraction of power. While killing off the unique roles the nestor fulfills in highsec (and some lowsec/wh roams).
The idea can not be compared to a carrier. Not at all. The ship is way too small an too quick to align to be compared. A carrier is slow, warps slowly and is an easy target. These adjustments will make it way more useful. As you said its used mainly in highsec and some few low sec roams. Rarely in 0.0. I assume its more used in Wormhole as a repper boat. But I dont have statistics on that specifically.
The ship is currently not in line with SoE vision being exploration ships. adding a jumpdrive will. Make it a close combat ship with drones and good enough dps to bite.
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FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
540
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:43:00 -
[21] - Quote
You can actually use a BLOPS and T3 pair to explore hostile areas of space very effectively. Covert cyno is way safer than regular cyno or gate-to-gate. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
FT Diomedes wrote:You can actually use a BLOPS and T3 pair to explore hostile areas of space very effectively.
I totally agree, you can, and I do that currently too. But not as a single class ship. Thats where SoE vision of a battleship should come in, puts together 2 different types of ships into one that has a very unique combination we dont have.
With a fleet of different ships u can do all sort of things offcourse.
Im saying its a pitty the nestor SoE ships is so rarely used. There are some great bonuses but nothing as a combination the ship is good at.
Im saying give it a combination of functionality which is unique as one ship for people to gear into. Have fun in, and get killed or kill. |
ashley Eoner
346
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:52:00 -
[23] - Quote
mannyman wrote:ashley Eoner wrote:mannyman wrote:Did u ever try exploring in a black ops ? The tank and cap is terrible, but it has its role, bridging and jumping. not battle.
My idea here with Nestor is to give it more unique role. Something that isnt there today. Ability for players with the right wallet and wish to explore in a ship with good drone dps and tank to run around in nullsec with their friend cynoing them around.
It gives nullsec people more visitors to shoot at, and highsec people the opportunity to get around if piloted right.
with 2 pilots running each nestor, they can fit cloak up if a threat arrives. This is down to piloting skills to survive, not the ship itself.
Carriers have their uniqueness in tank size and drones.
Nestor will be a BS with a jumpdrive, agile and fun to operate in nullsec. It already has some unique roles. Your plan just kills those roles without introducing anything new or unique. I'd rather use other ships for those actions. Either because the nestor costs much more or just doesn't bring the capabilities of similar costing ships etc etc. I'd rather use a t3 by miles. With the money I would of spent on a nestor I could pimp fit a t3. As stated earlier you're just creating a carrier with crap range and a fraction of power. While killing off the unique roles the nestor fulfills in highsec (and some lowsec/wh roams). The idea can not be compared to a carrier. Not at all. The ship is way too small an too quick to align to be compared. A carrier is slow, warps slowly and is an easy target. These adjustments will make it way more useful. As you said its used mainly in highsec and some few low sec roams. Rarely in 0.0. I assume its more used in Wormhole as a repper boat. But I dont have statistics on that specifically. The ship is currently not in line with SoE vision being exploration ships. adding a jumpdrive will. Make it a close combat ship with drones and good enough dps to bite. The nestor warps slightly faster then a carrier while having substantially less dps and flexibility in usage while costing the same. Sure it gets into warp faster if you're not using a prop mod on your carrier...
It's not more useful you just successfully killed most of the Nestor's current uses with those changes while adding nothing new that isn't already done better by other ships such as T3s and carriers for a cheaper or similar price.
Way more useful is incredibly wrong.
What's hilarious is you don't even know what the nestor is being used for "I assume it's more used for" meaning you have no real clue. It's got quite a few uses in highsec alone that would be rendered useless with your suggested change.
EDIT : I see nestors used on a nearly daily basis. You might as well be complaining that no one uses Garmurs or something... |
Petrified
Old and Petrified Syndication TOG - The Older Gamers Alliance
167
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Posted - 2014.09.18 19:39:00 -
[24] - Quote
Gnosis, Astero, Stratios, and Covert Ops Frigates already do the job better where exploration is concerned.
If you are looking at getting in null sec, there are a myriad of ways to do it already... heck... I'm there.
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Danika Princip
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
2925
|
Posted - 2014.09.18 20:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
mannyman wrote: The idea can not be compared to a carrier. Not at all. The ship is way too small an too quick to align to be compared. A carrier is slow, warps slowly and is an easy target. These adjustments will make it way more useful. As you said its used mainly in highsec and some few low sec roams. Rarely in 0.0. I assume its more used in Wormhole as a repper boat. But I dont have statistics on that specifically.
The ship is currently not in line with SoE vision being exploration ships. adding a jumpdrive will. Make it a close combat ship with drones and good enough dps to bite.
Yes, it can. What you are describing is literally a short ranged carrier with a better align time. That's it.
A jump drive equipped ship with serious drone bonuses and a decent tank is a description of a carrier. Your ship has less range, less tank, and less DPS. It's just a really bad carrier.
Your ship is also a slow moving, slow warping easy target. It might have ~15s or so better align time, and all of 0.5AU more warp speed, but neither of those are worth proposing an entirely new ship around. Especially one that costs the same as a damn carrier in the first place.
There would be quite literally no reason to use your ship over a carrier, for anything. |
Antillie Sa'Kan
Forging Industries Silent Infinity
692
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 18:11:00 -
[26] - Quote
mannyman wrote:Your right, the T3 with nullifed and cloak with mobile depot is doing some of this, but uses stargates. It still have to get through the 0.0--lowsec entry points and further. Also have to get through camps. Nestor with a fixed LY range for jumpdrive set to 7ly which is equivalent to BLOPS at jump drive cal lvl 4 gives a new mechanic to the game.
The ship doesnt need a cloak at all, the t2 improved cloak and prototype is good enough to hide, but this is piloting skills and not panick in situations that arrives inside the solar system.
With added drone dps, and removing the laser bonus, Nestor becomes something we havent seen before. It can still rep its buddy, just within closer range hence take down repping distance from 100% to 50% instead.
I havent seen Nestor in any bigger fleets, to big, too clumpsy and too expencive to sacrifice as a repper. Mabye in Wormholes where C5/C6 sites are done. But nowhere else. We got the great guardians and scimis already.
These proposals will change the solo mechanic, so we get a jump capable ship for very small gangs of people to explore 0.0. Do sites, have fun, and run around. Big enough fuel tank to run back and forth and around. 1400m3 fuel tank or something. No, a cloaky T3 does all of this. A covert ops cloak and nullification subsystem is flat out better than a jump drive for evading people in low and null and equally good at blowing though gate camps. Also anything a small gang can do a large fleet can do as well.
You are right that the Nestor needs something. But I don't think a jump drive is it. |
Iain Cariaba
344
|
Posted - 2014.09.19 18:47:00 -
[27] - Quote
Antillie Sa'Kan wrote:mannyman wrote:Your right, the T3 with nullifed and cloak with mobile depot is doing some of this, but uses stargates. It still have to get through the 0.0--lowsec entry points and further. Also have to get through camps. Nestor with a fixed LY range for jumpdrive set to 7ly which is equivalent to BLOPS at jump drive cal lvl 4 gives a new mechanic to the game.
The ship doesnt need a cloak at all, the t2 improved cloak and prototype is good enough to hide, but this is piloting skills and not panick in situations that arrives inside the solar system.
With added drone dps, and removing the laser bonus, Nestor becomes something we havent seen before. It can still rep its buddy, just within closer range hence take down repping distance from 100% to 50% instead.
I havent seen Nestor in any bigger fleets, to big, too clumpsy and too expencive to sacrifice as a repper. Mabye in Wormholes where C5/C6 sites are done. But nowhere else. We got the great guardians and scimis already.
These proposals will change the solo mechanic, so we get a jump capable ship for very small gangs of people to explore 0.0. Do sites, have fun, and run around. Big enough fuel tank to run back and forth and around. 1400m3 fuel tank or something. No, a cloaky T3 does all of this. A covert ops cloak and nullification subsystem is flat out better than a jump drive for evading people in low and null and equally good at blowing though gate camps. Also anything a small gang can do a large fleet can do as well. You are right that the Nestor needs something. But I don't think it's a jump drive. What it needs is a role to fill. It has some good bonuses, but nothing about it really screams out as "this, this is what I'm good for."
Suggestion: Lose analyzer strength, probe strength, laser range boost, armor rep amount boost Give cap transmitter range boost, drone control range boost, ability to use Triage module.
Basically turn it into mini-carrier, just without refit ability or extra drones. Maybe increase drone damage boost. Be very useful in wormholes, maybe incursions too but since I don't do those I don't know. Disclaimer: My opinion does not necessarily reflect that of my corp or alliance. My opinion is my own, and if you don't like, that is your problem. |
w3ak3stl1nk
Hedion University
90
|
Posted - 2014.09.20 02:50:00 -
[28] - Quote
How does this tie to high sec players? Or are you saying Care Bears have no common sense and will blindly fly expensive ships into oblivion? Is that my two cents or yours? |
mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
1
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Posted - 2014.10.15 20:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
Now with power projection coming in 3 weeks, its a good idea to make this great ship a ship of exploration and keep it in line with black ops ship where it can jump but not bridge. |
mannyman
Catastrophic Operations The Unthinkables
3
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Posted - 2014.10.19 13:20:00 -
[30] - Quote
Yesterday CCP announced in Las Vegas that some new research with SoE is coming, will this be a Nestor tweak mabye ? |
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