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Incindir Mauser
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
440
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Posted - 2014.09.15 19:28:00 -
[31] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:Billy Hardcore wrote:3. New Types of Sleeper escalations (spawned from Marauders?) This would be a nerf to guys who solo combat anoms in Marauders. I don't know if I'm for or against that; just an observation. When the Hyperion changes were announced, there seemed to be a very large divide between "PVP" posters and carebears. I have noticed a lot more food-chain oriented "PVP" posters of late. I think that's a good thing. If the sun doesn't shine on us plankton, you sharks will eventually starve. I don't mind fighting you guys and losing if I'm not rapidly going broke in the process.
Everyone is a bear at some point, unless they are wallet warriors totally funding their PvP with PLEX. Even us "sharks" must go bearing in order to PvP.
Bob the God of Wormholes has provided us with Sleepers, PI, nanoribbons, and blue loot to fund our Pew. PvE and PvP go hand in hand you need one to enjoy the other.
Tip of the Day: Bearing is baiting. Baiting leads to Sacred Violence in the Name of Bob.
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Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2014.09.15 20:01:00 -
[32] - Quote
Billy Hardcore wrote:I would like to point out that even the largest "PVP" groups CAN and DO carebear right there with the most affluent of bear. It comes with living in wh space. Don"t let them fool you. I imagine they do, or they fund their PVP with other chars, or whatever. W-space was my primary source of income until Hyperion though, and the reason I don't do PvE there anymore is the PVP guys are noticeably more hungry. I've watched 12 guys in a PVP corp spin their wheels for 3 hours today, getting 1 kill between them. That can't be very fun. Hell, I'm probably having more fun watching them under cloak than they are trying to bait with Ventures and getting no takers.
So there's a PVP corp of 12 (online) guys reduced to ship spinning. Really sad. Just as sad as me not making any ISK since Hyp! :( |
Billy Hardcore
Jaded.
166
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Posted - 2014.09.15 20:18:00 -
[33] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:Billy Hardcore wrote:I would like to point out that even the largest "PVP" groups CAN and DO carebear right there with the most affluent of bear. It comes with living in wh space. Don"t let them fool you. I imagine they do, or they fund their PVP with other chars, or whatever. W-space was my primary source of income until Hyperion though, and the reason I don't do PvE there anymore is the PVP guys are noticeably more hungry. I've watched 12 guys in a PVP corp spin their wheels for 3 hours today, getting 1 kill between them. That can't be very fun. Hell, I'm probably having more fun watching them under cloak than they are trying to bait with Ventures and getting no takers. So there's a PVP corp of 12 (online) guys reduced to ship spinning. Really sad. Just as sad as me not making any ISK since Hyp! :(
Thus the reason CCP needs to give some PR attention(Maybe a cool trailer or something?) to WH-Space as well as these needed changes to increase WH attractiveness to the everyday EVE player. #BillyFleet |
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
31
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Posted - 2014.09.15 20:30:00 -
[34] - Quote
Billy Hardcore wrote:Pro TIps wrote:Billy Hardcore wrote:I would like to point out that even the largest "PVP" groups CAN and DO carebear right there with the most affluent of bear. It comes with living in wh space. Don"t let them fool you. I imagine they do, or they fund their PVP with other chars, or whatever. W-space was my primary source of income until Hyperion though, and the reason I don't do PvE there anymore is the PVP guys are noticeably more hungry. I've watched 12 guys in a PVP corp spin their wheels for 3 hours today, getting 1 kill between them. That can't be very fun. Hell, I'm probably having more fun watching them under cloak than they are trying to bait with Ventures and getting no takers. So there's a PVP corp of 12 (online) guys reduced to ship spinning. Really sad. Just as sad as me not making any ISK since Hyp! :( Thus the reason CCP needs to give some PR attention(Maybe a cool trailer or something?) to WH-Space as well as these needed changes to increase WH attractiveness to the everyday EVE player.
A cool trailer wont fix wspace though, lol. It would be like put lipstick on a pig :p If can make it more attractive to interact with, either live in or daytrip too. Then, after that, perhaps a cool trailer, hehe.
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Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
27
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Posted - 2014.09.15 20:32:00 -
[35] - Quote
Billy Hardcore wrote:Thus the reason CCP needs to give some PR attention(Maybe a cool trailer or something?) to WH-Space as well as these needed changes to increase WH attractiveness to the everyday EVE player. The wormhole changes have been featured in the launcher and, you know, patch notes etc.
A lot of people in Eve go where the money is. Put some money here, people will come, and you sharks can pewpew them.
There is a tremendous amount of complexity to some of the suggestions offered. Add new mats and new modules, things like that. This would be neat, but CCP has such a bad understanding of W-space that I fear complicated levers will do more harm than good. Simply raising the ask on blue sleeper loot is an easy and effective way to bring more ISK into the system.
I used to think that increasing the anom spawn rate would be nice, but honestly, I wouldn't run combat anoms right now if my system had 100 of them. It still wouldn't be worth the risk as the ISK/hour doesn't change and the risk is still bad. |
Proclus Diadochu
Oberon Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
1847
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Posted - 2014.09.15 20:39:00 -
[36] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:CCP has such a bad understanding of W-space. The first step, and Hyperion was not exactly a "step", would be for CCP to actually start viewing wormholes as an "intended" place for players to live and reside. The whole "we never intended for players to live in wormholes" is an old, tired cop-out, meaning that players are making a partially developed section of the game viable.
This is that part, 5 years later, where CCP actually looks at wormholes and makes adjustments, changes, and applies content to drive people into a completely developed section called "wormholes". **Irrelevant-á| Twitter: @autoritare | [email protected] My Blog: http://diogenes-club.blogspot.com/ | The Diogenes Club |
Maker Atavuli
Core Intel Silent Requiem
19
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Posted - 2014.09.17 18:01:00 -
[37] - Quote
I consider difficult logistics like getting in ice (fuel) a part of living in a hole. If you make it possible to get fuel in system why in BOB's name would we ever go to k space. I believe that hauling in crap should remain a part of WH life.
Marauder escalations would be fine and could help smaller corps cover the costs of investment needed to live on the fringe.
I just wonder if moon goo would draw the 0.0 crowd to try and eat some of the small WH corps would be interesting to see. |
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
32
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Posted - 2014.09.17 18:10:00 -
[38] - Quote
Maker Atavuli wrote:I consider difficult logistics like getting in ice (fuel) a part of living in a hole. If you make it possible to get fuel in system why in BOB's name would we ever go to k space. I believe that hauling in crap should remain a part of WH life.
Marauder escalations would be fine and could help smaller corps cover the costs of investment needed to live on the fringe.
I just wonder if moon goo would draw the 0.0 crowd to try and eat some of the small WH corps would be interesting to see.
Moon goo would be terrible to introduce to wspace. Only exception would be if a "new type" of moon go was introduced used in some new type of production. (and it still would be terrible passive income). Rewards should always be based on effort and activity imho.
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Billy Hardcore
Jaded.
167
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Posted - 2014.09.17 18:13:00 -
[39] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:Maker Atavuli wrote:I consider difficult logistics like getting in ice (fuel) a part of living in a hole. If you make it possible to get fuel in system why in BOB's name would we ever go to k space. I believe that hauling in crap should remain a part of WH life.
Marauder escalations would be fine and could help smaller corps cover the costs of investment needed to live on the fringe.
I just wonder if moon goo would draw the 0.0 crowd to try and eat some of the small WH corps would be interesting to see. Moon goo would be terrible to introduce to wspace. Only exception would be if a "new type" of moon go was introduced used in some new type of production. (and it still would be terrible passive income). Rewards should always be based on effort and activity imho.
The moon-goo would have to be used for making t3's or some other material not already in the game. #BillyFleet |
epicurus ataraxia
Z3R0 Return Mining Inc. Illusion of Solitude
1224
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Posted - 2014.09.19 09:30:00 -
[40] - Quote
I think that corbexx work in identifying exactly what the real income in lower class holes will be invaluable, and I hope that he has the time to revisit the ones he has already done post hyperion, as the risk reward equation is significantly skewed towards risk since. There certainly needs to be a real effort put into resolving the issues created by the patch.
If we add income, there is a real benefit in getting people into space, adding more passive income, whilst simple to predict, does not really bring more vitality to wormhole space, so I personally am not in favour of moon goo type operations.
There is a real issue, that when small corps have one or two members on, that apart from scanning, ganking, pos spinning, or ninja gas mining,there is little to do, as the c1-2 sites are simply not worth running, in relation to risk and C3 sites tend to mean the actual loss of ships to reward, does not actually make a lot of sense. (Your mileage may vary)
If there was an activity, that would encourage one to go down the chain a jump or two, and NOT need to go to KS or pos spin waiting for others, that would increase both daytrippers and residents.
CCP, It is like a restaurant, if people are going out to macdonalds after the main course to get coffee or an apple pie isn't it time to look at sorting out your menu? There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE |
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Solette Cheli
University of Caille Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2014.09.19 10:13:00 -
[41] - Quote
First makes perfect sense lore wise, since w-space is just unindexed/explored/recorded areas of space (CONCORD has never made a map and jump bridges through there.) that was previously owned by an ancient race (sleepers), so it's fine. I don't know what moon goo would do. This could work. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
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Posted - 2014.09.19 16:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
Income increase in lower classes should be achieved by either figuring out some use for the worthless salvage, or by increasing the total amount of sites.
Increasing blue loot per site does not result in increased activity, but having spawns all the time to farm would. And this is really only about C1-3, C4s are plenty profitable enough.
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
32
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Posted - 2014.09.20 10:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Income increase in lower classes should be achieved by either figuring out some use for the worthless salvage, or by increasing the total amount of sites.
Increasing blue loot per site does not result in increased activity, but having spawns all the time to farm would. And this is really only about C1-3, C4s are plenty profitable enough.
Well, by same principles, c4 is only profitable if there is sites spawning, same as with any wh class. Lot of people reporting poor respawn rate lately, just means less sites being run and unpopulated systems pile up.
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
69
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Posted - 2014.09.20 14:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:Income increase in lower classes should be achieved by either figuring out some use for the worthless salvage, or by increasing the total amount of sites.
Increasing blue loot per site does not result in increased activity, but having spawns all the time to farm would. And this is really only about C1-3, C4s are plenty profitable enough.
Well, by same principles, c4 is only profitable if there is sites spawning, same as with any wh class. Lot of people reporting poor respawn rate lately, just means less sites being run and unpopulated systems pile up.
No, you didn't quite get it- C4 income is plenty enough as it is. No need to increase spawns or rewards.
C1-3 income seems to be the concern for the whiners, and they are right in the sense that there's no tangible difference between the risks of different wormhole classes, and doing C1 sites atm isn't a rational choice.
However, instead of just giving a higher reward for the same work, I suggest increasing the potential total reward for more activity. Be it home sites or running them in your static, you could earn more after cleaning the system, since you'd have more sites. This would also allow for more members in low class corps.
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Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2014.09.20 21:05:00 -
[45] - Quote
C4 income is worse than C3 income. The reason is C4 sites take twice as long to clear but they do not drop twice as much loot.
Also spawn rate in C4s is generally worse because there is less activity in them. If you have a C4 static you will notice they are often totally empty of sites, or quite full; not much in-between. Why? They aren't worth doing unless they are in your home system because ISK/hr sucks, see above. |
Calmatt
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
124
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:45:00 -
[46] - Quote
Proclus Diadochu wrote:Pro TIps wrote:CCP has such a bad understanding of W-space. The first step, and Hyperion was not exactly a "step", would be for CCP to actually start viewing wormholes as an "intended" place for players to live and reside. The whole "we never intended for players to live in wormholes" is an old, tired cop-out, meaning that players are making a partially developed section of the game viable. This is that part, 5 years later, where CCP actually looks at wormholes and makes adjustments, changes, and applies content to drive people into a completely developed section called "wormholes".
I believe the last update I read from CCP was that that view was absolutely not true and they love what we've "done with the place". Just saying, B.O.D's and all. |
Calmatt
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
124
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:48:00 -
[47] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:C4 income is worse than C3 income. The reason is C4 sites take twice as long to clear but they do not drop twice as much loot.
Also spawn rate in C4s is generally worse because there is less activity in them. If you have a C4 static you will notice they are often totally empty of sites, or quite full; not much in-between. Why? They aren't worth doing unless they are in your home system because ISK/hr sucks, see above.
I was making serious spacebux when I was in a c4, but granted I used 2b Machariels and Nightmares in a gang, instead of 1-2 tengus in a C3. |
Pro TIps
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
47
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
Calmatt wrote:I was making serious spacebux when I was in a c4, but granted I used 2b Machariels and Nightmares in a gang, instead of 1-2 tengus in a C3. Sure, but you can make more ISK / hour with less bling ships farming C3 sites than C4 sites. That's the problem. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
72
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Posted - 2014.09.21 06:48:00 -
[49] - Quote
Pro TIps wrote:C4 income is worse than C3 income. The reason is C4 sites take twice as long to clear but they do not drop twice as much loot.
Also spawn rate in C4s is generally worse because there is less activity in them. If you have a C4 static you will notice they are often totally empty of sites, or quite full; not much in-between. Why? They aren't worth doing unless they are in your home system because ISK/hr sucks, see above.
No, it is not, C4 income is actually nearly twice as good. I feel sorry for you. |
Calmatt
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
124
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Posted - 2014.09.21 07:15:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Pro TIps wrote:C4 income is worse than C3 income. The reason is C4 sites take twice as long to clear but they do not drop twice as much loot.
Also spawn rate in C4s is generally worse because there is less activity in them. If you have a C4 static you will notice they are often totally empty of sites, or quite full; not much in-between. Why? They aren't worth doing unless they are in your home system because ISK/hr sucks, see above. No, it is not, C4 income is actually nearly twice as good. I feel sorry for you.
I was making 200mil+/hour/toon, but it required blingy faction battleships, and some coordination, and an hour of hole rolling a day, so the numbers a little less, and there were further refinements we could've done but meh, I'll stick with it.
What were your numbers? |
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
72
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Posted - 2014.09.21 10:31:00 -
[51] - Quote
That's what I've reached so far, and best I've gotten consistently from C3s was 120mil. However I do realize my C4 setup and procedure has still lots of room to evolve.
Still already this compares favourably with cap escalations, when you consider the investment and ease of just running C4s whenever you feel like it. I don't support increasing rewards for C4s. C1-2 probably yes, C3s are on the edge.
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