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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ria Nieyli
20594
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Posted - 2014.09.14 06:41:00 -
[121] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Correct. What I've been saying is that the current mechanics don't provide sufficient incentive to find and kill them, and don't provide sufficient disincentive for finding and killing well fit ships.
So what you're saying is that people don't want to put too much effort into a game they play for fun. What's the problem with that? I get trolled hard every day and I don't even know it. |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9750
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 06:42:00 -
[122] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: Correct. What I've been saying is that the current mechanics don't provide sufficient incentive to find and kill them, and don't provide sufficient disincentive for finding and killing well fit ships.
If it's actually well fit, and properly flown, it will pretty much never die unless someone else has a grudge against you.
The only reason anyone complains about it is because they died to a gank in an expensive bling ship, which is proof positive that they can't play the game correctly and therefore that their opinions are worthless. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
76
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Posted - 2014.09.14 06:44:00 -
[123] - Quote
Ria Nieyli wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Correct. What I've been saying is that the current mechanics don't provide sufficient incentive to find and kill them, and don't provide sufficient disincentive for finding and killing well fit ships. So what you're saying is that people don't want to put too much effort into a game they play for fun. What's the problem with that?
What I'm saying is that the current mechanics don't make it necessary or useful to put in the effort. An appropriate rebalance would steer people in that direction. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5112
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 06:47:00 -
[124] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Correct. What I've been saying is that the current mechanics don't provide sufficient incentive to find and kill them, and don't provide sufficient disincentive for finding and killing well fit ships. So what you're saying is that people don't want to put too much effort into a game they play for fun. What's the problem with that? What I'm saying is that the current mechanics don't make it necessary or useful to put in the effort. An appropriate rebalance would steer people in that direction.
Err, dude, you know the hours, sometimes days, of planning and scouting and gathering intel and sitting around waiting for their target?
You're just gonna dismiss that as 'not putting in the effort'?
It's sure as hell more effort than just sitting back and pushing ctrl-S. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
12434
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 06:48:00 -
[125] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
I'm really not sure what you are trying to say...
1. Yes, anti-ganking is great for advice on avoiding ganks.
2. Using bumping to trap a ship for 50 minutes, causing the owner to quit the game...and the rubbing it in with "can I haz your stuff" is exactly the kind of garbage I would like to see less of. Enjoy your kill and shut up. Don't look to elicit emotional reactions.
3. Yes, I think bumping is being used in an abusive way. I would like to see more freighters pop, but from dps, not from trapping due to bumping.
4. Yes, I think wardeccs should not be used to force people into PvP without CONCORD. Go suicide gank them if you want to kill them.
I'm still trying to figure out what any of your posts "prove." Do try and do a better job in the future.
1. And yet here you are, having lost an expensive ship to a horde of Catalysts which can't cloak and can't hide in Local. Your solution to this loss is to change the game mechanics so that you can continue to operate blind to your own immediate surroundings. Was this the sort of "great" advice you're advocating?
2. I disagree, CCP disagrees, your topic is locked and long gone. Use F&I if you'd like.. the forum is there for this exact purpose.
3. Freighters pop largely because pilots are lazy. I like laziness as the primary cause of freighter death in hisec. I don't know what 'dps' means as a cause. Did the freighter just magically place itself within shooting distance of a bunch of guns? I think you should step back a little and take a look at the set of circumstances that bring a gank together, not just how many DPS or EHP one ship or another has. Your DPS/EHP diatribe also demonstrates a lack of understanding for the complex balancing work CCP does.
4. I disagree, CCP disagrees, see my point number two.
lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~ |
Ria Nieyli
20594
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 06:49:00 -
[126] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Ria Nieyli wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:Correct. What I've been saying is that the current mechanics don't provide sufficient incentive to find and kill them, and don't provide sufficient disincentive for finding and killing well fit ships. So what you're saying is that people don't want to put too much effort into a game they play for fun. What's the problem with that? What I'm saying is that the current mechanics don't make it necessary or useful to put in the effort. An appropriate rebalance would steer people in that direction.
Ah, but I do say, a rebalance is not needed. Given enough time, the people that can improve to the point where they stop getting ganked will do so, leaving only less skilled players as targets. In fact, I'd say that it's already happening. I get trolled hard every day and I don't even know it. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
76
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 06:53:00 -
[127] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:1. And yet here you are, having lost an expensive ship to a horde of Catalysts which can't cloak and can't hide in Local. Your solution to this loss is to change the game mechanics so that you can continue to operate blind to your own immediate surroundings. Was this the sort of "great" advice you're advocating? 2. I disagree, CCP disagrees, your topic is locked and long gone. Use F&I if you'd like.. the forum is there for this exact purpose. 3. Freighters pop largely because pilots are lazy. I like laziness as the primary cause of freighter death in hisec. I don't know what 'dps' means as a cause. Did the freighter just magically place itself within shooting distance of a bunch of guns? I think you should step back a little and take a look at the set of circumstances that bring a gank together, not just how many DPS or EHP one ship or another has. Your DPS/EHP diatribe also demonstrates a lack of understanding for the complex balancing work CCP does. 4. I disagree, CCP disagrees, see my point number two.
Ok, its late and this conversation is kind of stale. I don't think we are communicating here.
1. Read more carefully next time. I, as always, did not lose my ship. The unique circumstances there were unfortunate. And yes, I do believe it should be harder to kill my expensive combat battleship.
2. Topic is not locked - see my extensive contributions to the bumping thread. I am advocating for positive change.
3. Whatever. I would nerf the bumping trick and also nerf freighter dps. Problem solved.
4. Actually CCP agrees, my post was defending their allowing 1 man corps to dodge wardeccs. So...well... another FAIL |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5114
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 06:56:00 -
[128] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Ok, its late and this conversation is kind of stale. I don't think we are communicating here. Last post on this tonight.
You're right. Never imagined I'd say that to you, but you are right.
You're doing lots of talking, but very little listening.
Congratulations on being right about something. There may be hope for you yet. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
77
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Posted - 2014.09.14 06:59:00 -
[129] - Quote
Remiel Pollard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Ok, its late and this conversation is kind of stale. I don't think we are communicating here. Last post on this tonight.
You're right. Never imagined I'd say that to you, but you are right. You're doing lots of talking, but very little listening. Congratulations on being right about something. There may be hope for you yet.
Don't worry, it took me about 5 minutes to realize that I wasn't getting anything useful from your comments and it was time to stop listening. I remain very happy with the way I play the game. Thanks. |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5114
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:02:00 -
[130] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Remiel Pollard wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Ok, its late and this conversation is kind of stale. I don't think we are communicating here. Last post on this tonight.
You're right. Never imagined I'd say that to you, but you are right. You're doing lots of talking, but very little listening. Congratulations on being right about something. There may be hope for you yet. Don't worry, it took me about 5 minutes to realize that I wasn't getting anything useful from your comments and it was time to stop listening. I remain very happy with the way I play the game. Thanks.
You never started listening. That's why you got nothing useful. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
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Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
103
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Posted - 2014.09.14 07:04:00 -
[131] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: What I'm saying is that the current mechanics don't make it necessary or useful to put in the effort. An appropriate rebalance would steer people in that direction.
The effort put into executing any type of gank is an exponential factor of effort that the gank target puts in. The quality of the target's fit is pretty much irrelevant. |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
12434
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:04:00 -
[132] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Don't worry, it took me about 5 minutes to realize that I wasn't getting anything useful from your comments and it was time to stop listening. I remain very happy with the way I play the game. Thanks.
I don't see any of us complaining about game mechanics. Does it occur to you to examine how to play the game to see whether it is at fault (in any way) for the events that have sparked your string of comments in this thread?
Could you at least explain how you missed the multiboxer on Dscan? I apologize if you've provided an answer, but I seem to have missed it.
lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~ |
Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
12438
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:07:00 -
[133] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Ok, its late and this conversation is kind of stale. I don't think we are communicating here. Last post on this tonight.
Fine, maybe it was unfair of me to start attacking other posts of yours out of context. I think you can agree that your fundamental views on hisec are quite antithetical to the views some others in thread support?
lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~ |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
77
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Posted - 2014.09.14 07:09:00 -
[134] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Don't worry, it took me about 5 minutes to realize that I wasn't getting anything useful from your comments and it was time to stop listening. I remain very happy with the way I play the game. Thanks.
I don't see any of us complaining about game mechanics. Does it occur to you to examine how to play the game to see whether it is at fault (in any way) for the events that have sparked your string of comments in this thread? Could you at least explain how you missed the multiboxer on Dscan? I apologize if you've provided an answer, but I seem to have missed it.
Actually if you look through other threads you can see most of the posters here complaining about various game mechanics and calling for significant nerfs to safety in highsec. Some want to abolish / massively nerf NPC Corps, etc...
I was warping to an incursion site. These sites are on the system overview for everyone. The multiboxer was probably bouncing from site to site among the 5 sites, hence I never had a chance to use Dscan. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
77
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:09:00 -
[135] - Quote
Sibyyl wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Ok, its late and this conversation is kind of stale. I don't think we are communicating here. Last post on this tonight.
Fine, maybe it was unfair of me to start attacking other posts of yours out of context. I think you can agree that your fundamental views on hisec are quite antithetical to the views some others in thread support?
Well, that's fair enough. I definitely have deep disagreements with Remiel, Kauuros, Baltec1, etc.... |
Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5114
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:12:00 -
[136] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Don't worry, it took me about 5 minutes to realize that I wasn't getting anything useful from your comments and it was time to stop listening. I remain very happy with the way I play the game. Thanks.
I don't see any of us complaining about game mechanics. Does it occur to you to examine how to play the game to see whether it is at fault (in any way) for the events that have sparked your string of comments in this thread? Could you at least explain how you missed the multiboxer on Dscan? I apologize if you've provided an answer, but I seem to have missed it. Actually if you look through other threads you can see most of the posters here complaining about various game mechanics and calling for significant nerfs to safety in highsec. Some want to abolish / massively nerf NPC Corps, etc... I was warping to an incursion site. These sites are on the system overview for everyone. The multiboxer was probably bouncing from site to site among the 5 sites, hence I never had a chance to use Dscan.
You had every chance to use dscan. I'm always clicking it, even in the middle of a fight. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
103
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:13:00 -
[137] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
I was warping to an incursion site. These sites are on the system overview for everyone. The multiboxer was probably bouncing from site to site among the 5 sites, hence I never had a chance to use Dscan.
You know that you can narrow dscan down to 15 degrees and that dscan range is centred on camera angle and has nothing to do with where you are heading. In a 20 sec warp a well practised pilot can dscan 5 incursion sites.
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Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
77
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:16:00 -
[138] - Quote
Cancel Align NOW wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
I was warping to an incursion site. These sites are on the system overview for everyone. The multiboxer was probably bouncing from site to site among the 5 sites, hence I never had a chance to use Dscan.
You know that you can narrow dscan down to 15 degrees and that dscan range is centred on camera angle and has nothing to do with where you are heading. In a 20 sec warp a well practised pilot can dscan 5 incursion sites.
I was warping to an incursion site 60 au from the dockup. How would dscan help find the catas that were bouncing around? I had no idea they were in sys....and even if i found them on scan it would be too late to do anything about it. They happened to meet me at the gate by sheer luck. There was nothing to do about it, thankfully I survived. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
425
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Posted - 2014.09.14 07:21:00 -
[139] - Quote
Let me tell you about your mistake OP:
You're putting that 22 billion ISK Marauder in a gankable situation.
If you want it to survive, put it somewhere else. A place where all those destroyers are blown up 9 jumps before they even get close to where you and that shiny are. Because there's dudes going all wild screaming "TARGETS!" and "KILLMAILS!"
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Sibyyl
Gallente Federation
12446
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Posted - 2014.09.14 07:23:00 -
[140] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
Actually if you look through other threads you can see most of the posters here complaining about various game mechanics and calling for significant nerfs to safety in highsec. Some want to abolish / massively nerf NPC Corps, etc...
I was warping to an incursion site. These sites are on the system overview for everyone. The multiboxer was probably bouncing from site to site among the 5 sites, hence I never had a chance to use Dscan.
All I have to say is.. as someone who's warped into an explo site only to find someone decloaking on grid, your problem contains one less complication (the cloaking), a significantly greater defensive advantage, a bunch of additional clues (multiboxer), and an eventual CONCORD response.
Is yours a worse problem than mine? I'm not advocating for any changes, obviously. lol rolling on floor.. i would probably be laughing though.. not crying --Pepper the Penguin ~ And when the seasons change, will you stand by me? ~ |
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Remiel Pollard
Shock Treatment Ministries
5116
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Posted - 2014.09.14 07:24:00 -
[141] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:thankfully I survived.
Then you've really got nothing to complain about, have you. Because at the end of the day, if you can do it, my pet cockatiels probably could too. GÇ£Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.GÇ¥ - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104 |
Heavy Met4l Queen
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
66
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:32:00 -
[142] - Quote
In my humble opinion, nothing of value was lost. In the game of conquest, who cares about the pawns if the king yet reigns? |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13195
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:42:00 -
[143] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Sibyyl wrote:Veers Belvar wrote:
Ok, its late and this conversation is kind of stale. I don't think we are communicating here. Last post on this tonight.
Fine, maybe it was unfair of me to start attacking other posts of yours out of context. I think you can agree that your fundamental views on hisec are quite antithetical to the views some others in thread support? Well, that's fair enough. I definitely have deep disagreements with Remiel, Kauuros, Baltec1, etc....
About what in relation of battleships do you disagree with me about? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Cancel Align NOW
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 07:50:00 -
[144] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:
I was warping to an incursion site 60 au from the dockup. How would dscan help find the catas that were bouncing around? I had no idea they were in sys....and even if i found them on scan it would be too late to do anything about it. They happened to meet me at the gate by sheer luck. There was nothing to do about it, thankfully I survived.
1. The longer the warp the more you get to scope the system out enroute 2. Always know who is in system with you 3. It's never too late - the odds of failure are drastically increased when you lack belief 4. Wait you warped 60 au to a site from a station and then to the gate - how far was gate from site? how far was gate from station? Most locations in system are clustered together in groups you have travelled through 3 clustered groups.
I would consider myself a run of the mill bitter vet, not an expert on much in Eve Online, but I know there is always ways to make things swing more in your favour. Before aiming to change the mechanics of the game, learn the depth of use of possible mechanics:
bump aligning, dscan focus, web aligning, slingshoting, corp, alliance standing, criminal standing, bounty standing, shiptype overview selection, cloaked warp in, in line safes, bouncing safes...
...all of these mechanic utilisations can be used with differing effect in different space types. |
Crazy Candy
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 08:36:00 -
[145] - Quote
IDK why this is coming up like two months after we did it. I guess GG losing a multi-bil pod in hisec finally made him crack.
The effort we had to put in setting up the gank is more than enough to signify that the current state of suicide ganking is fine. As Prize Bot alluded to, we had a ridiculously small window to execute on. If it wasn't us, somebody else would have got him - numerous people said they had been scouting to kill GG as well.
Also lmao we would have lost a lot more than 600mil if I didn't hit him for 12,000 on my cycle, this stuff is really costly. TL;DR get good and use a scout, or stop flying stupidly blinged ships. |
Lister Dax
Intergalactic Trade and Harm
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 08:56:00 -
[146] - Quote
Nice stealth grr-ganking thread with the misleading title.
So are you still upset about the Pasta guys?
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Adrie Atticus
The Shadow Plague The Bastion
317
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 09:33:00 -
[147] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Agreed.
Game Mechanics have been heavily skewed to favor Suicide Ganking which has become the top play option available in this game.
DMC
If you leave hisec, you'll find that we call this activity "PvP" and don't get butthurt over it. |
Benny Ohu
Chaotic Tranquility
3929
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 09:58:00 -
[148] - Quote
wait let me get the eyeroll smiley ready, here we go
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Agreed.
Game Mechanics have been heavily skewed to favor Suicide Ganking which has become the top play option available in this game.
DMC
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Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
4872
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 10:00:00 -
[149] - Quote
i read that article this morning and thought to myself " i know im going to have to kill someone over this".
i get here and yup, heresy all over my morning read....
that aside
Veers Belvar wrote: B. Battleships are the ugly duckling of Eve. They are used by mission runners who generally are not worried about getting ganked since it is a pain to scan them down and gank them. They are not seen as much in low/null because of their relatively high cost, and the easy of ganking them with frigs, cruisers, bombers, etc.. etc...
wrong, they are the easiest things in highsec to find with probes, and always worth scanning down, frequently no ganking required
im not adressing the rest of the thread as its just veers continuing to be wrong for 8 pages. =][= |
El Space Mariachi
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
120
|
Posted - 2014.09.14 10:03:00 -
[150] - Quote
GG we're still sad you left, you realise no one was actually going to awox you right? We're not that kind of people, we don't awox our friends and members. Come on home brother : - ) gay gamers for jesus |
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