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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
48
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Posted - 2014.09.15 15:54:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:MooMooDachshundCow wrote:People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant.. Tbh I dont think we can afford to rate anyone as irrelevant, because last time I checked wspace isn't flowing over of active players. Imho players need to be encouraged to play in wspace. More active players playing, more interaction between them. The food chain need all kinds to thrive.
Yeah, but if you're too scared of the monsters in the dark then you're irrelevant. I know that wormholes are hard and dangerous, but that's what I like about them. I don't want to make them less of either. Rather, I'd like them to be/remain very hard so they reward people with more diligence/experience/understanding.
I think that my proposal supports that.
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
29
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Posted - 2014.09.15 16:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Ruffio Sepico wrote:MooMooDachshundCow wrote:People who are too scared to come out of their POS are people who I don't care about. Choosing to not play makes you irrelevant.. Tbh I dont think we can afford to rate anyone as irrelevant, because last time I checked wspace isn't flowing over of active players. Imho players need to be encouraged to play in wspace. More active players playing, more interaction between them. The food chain need all kinds to thrive. Yeah, but if you're too scared of the monsters in the dark then you're irrelevant. I know that wormholes are hard and dangerous, but that's what I like about them. I don't want to make them less of either. Rather, I'd like them to be/remain very hard so they reward people with more diligence/experience/understanding. I think that my proposal supports that.
You would first need to increase the incentive to do stuff, before you increase even a greater risk. The last patch did to a greater extent remove the incentive to do things for a lot of players. Feeling risk and effort is to great for the rewards. Increasing the risk even more, would just make it even worse.
It doesn't help say we dont need risk averse players in the first place, because priority number one should be to increase the wspace population and it take all kinds imho.
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MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
48
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Posted - 2014.09.15 16:57:00 -
[33] - Quote
Well, there we can agree. Wormholes need better rewards for most things other than capital escalations. This will naturally make it easier for people to afford to live there even if they lose ships to pvp banditos. This is a known issue and one that I believe Corbexx is working on. |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
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Posted - 2014.09.16 04:53:00 -
[34] - Quote
Greed and entitlement of the carebear are infinite. |
MooMooDachshundCow
Incertae Sedis
49
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Posted - 2014.09.16 14:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Greed and entitlement of the carebear are infinite.
Whatever do you mean?
If you want people to "do stuff" in wormholes, there's a food chain effect. I can't PVP if there's nobody in the chains. Bears provide targets for gankers which makes them the plankton of this ecosystem.
Or maybe you think everybody just goes around yelling "PVP for the PVP BOB!" and we come running?
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Janeway84
Its a good day to die ORPHANS OF EVE
103
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Posted - 2014.09.16 15:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
T3 frig would be sweet if they added t3 frigate skill and separate subsystem skills for the frig. Otherwise loosing t3 frig would hurt your t3 cruiser flying wich wouldnt make t3 frigates really popular to fly. |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
479
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Posted - 2014.09.16 17:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Agatir Solenth wrote:HerrBert wrote:Frigate Command Ship! As some that spent the time to get the SP to fly a Command Ships and all the skills to support it, this is a terrible idea. You don't give things to those that have less invested in this game. Let's get an idea that promotes vets to stay, rather than benefitting the noobs. If you want frigates go to low-sec & try faction warfare.
Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses. |
HerrBert
V0LTA Triumvirate.
526
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Posted - 2014.09.16 17:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:Agatir Solenth wrote:HerrBert wrote:Frigate Command Ship! As some that spent the time to get the SP to fly a Command Ships and all the skills to support it, this is a terrible idea. You don't give things to those that have less invested in this game. Let's get an idea that promotes vets to stay, rather than benefitting the noobs. If you want frigates go to low-sec & try faction warfare. Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses.
I m working on a project for "highlighting the pros and cons" hopefully its gonna be good .. kinda nervous about it :) Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
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Necharo Rackham
The Red Circle Inc. Ministry of Inappropriate Footwork
44
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Posted - 2014.09.17 10:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote:
Destroyer command ships are a good idea. And its not as if you wont have to train all the same skills as for a BC CS also the dieas thrown around on F&I about this theorized they would have not as good bonuses.
You need to buff rewards before you buff frigate sized fleets (at least in the context of w-space). |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1868
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Posted - 2014.09.17 10:38:00 -
[40] - Quote
HerrBert wrote: I m working on a project for "highlighting the pros and cons" hopefully its gonna be good .. kinda nervous about it :)
They will be like command ships with less tank but more speed... End of project. +1 |
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Fehyd Rautha
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
2
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Posted - 2014.09.17 10:51:00 -
[41] - Quote
Wouldn't mind some CS styled destroyers. On the other hand, not sure how I feel about putting billing isk clones in paper thin hulls. :P |
Himnos Altar
An Errant Venture
456
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Posted - 2014.09.17 11:13:00 -
[42] - Quote
Kynric wrote:Axloth Okiah wrote:yeah, more off-grid faggotry, thats exactly what we need... Unfortunately, the lack of frigate/destroyer sized link boats will not make for a link less fight. It just results in only the home team having links. The home team already has a tremendous advantage in what they can bring to the fight. As such a destroyer or frigate sized command boat would be appreciated.
If they decided to make a frigate/destroyer-sized command platform (T2 logistics frigs?), I would say that you'd need to make sure that the bonuses were smaller. This would lower the boost differential between the homefield and the foreign, but not eliminate completely if home fielders wield BC-sized links.
BC-scale links on Frigs would be too OP IMO.
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
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Posted - 2014.09.17 14:19:00 -
[43] - Quote
MooMooDachshundCow wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:Greed and entitlement of the carebear are infinite. Whatever do you mean? If you want people to "do stuff" in wormholes, there's a food chain effect. I can't PVP if there's nobody in the chains. Bears provide targets for gankers which makes them the plankton of this ecosystem. Or maybe you think everybody just goes around yelling "PVP for the PVP BOB!" and we come running?
I mean those comments that demand increasing rewards in wormholes, or reducing risks.
100-120mil/hr in C3s, +200mil/hr in C4s, minimum 250mil/hr and higher in C5/C6s. Not sure how little people make in C2s, but the ships required to run there are yet cheaper again. IMHO demanding higher rewards is absurdly greedy.
Pre-Hype bears only ran sites in sealed holes, these days they claim to stay possed up or logged off. There's very little difference to the net effect of their existence, except that rib prices are slowly recovering.
None of the daily fights* we've had since Hype have been connected to PVE activities, I guess people do run around searching for Bob PVP parties.
* yeah, a fight every night when I've been logged in. Moving to C4 space was a thorough success, and feels like a PVP paradise after the desolation of C5s.
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
32
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Posted - 2014.09.17 14:49:00 -
[44] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:I mean those comments that demand increasing rewards in wormholes, or reducing risks.
100-120mil/hr in C3s, +200mil/hr in C4s, minimum 250mil/hr and higher in C5/C6s. Not sure how little people make in C2s, but the ships required to run there are yet cheaper again. IMHO demanding higher rewards is absurdly greedy.
Pre-Hype bears only ran sites in sealed holes, these days they claim to stay possed up or logged off. There's very little difference to the net effect of their existence, except that rib prices are slowly recovering.
Regardless of who you are in wspace, bear, pvp'er or something in between, everyone need isk to feed their habbits. You do not make 100-120m/hr in a c3 solo. The more people you add to the party the less cut a share.
Best of the combat anoms in a c3 is the Outpost Frontier Stronghold it drops 32.5m in blues + salvage. The time and risk it take to do solo (if you bring your alts, its not solo tbh). Incursion and level 4 missions have better payout than this for time and effort spent.
If reward should match the risk and effort, the rewards should be greater in wspace than high sec right? So boost wspace or nerf high sec?
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Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
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Posted - 2014.09.17 15:07:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:Aiyshimin wrote:I mean those comments that demand increasing rewards in wormholes, or reducing risks.
100-120mil/hr in C3s, +200mil/hr in C4s, minimum 250mil/hr and higher in C5/C6s. Not sure how little people make in C2s, but the ships required to run there are yet cheaper again. IMHO demanding higher rewards is absurdly greedy.
Pre-Hype bears only ran sites in sealed holes, these days they claim to stay possed up or logged off. There's very little difference to the net effect of their existence, except that rib prices are slowly recovering.
Regardless of who you are in wspace, bear, pvp'er or something in between, everyone need isk to feed their habbits. You do not make 100-120m/hr in a c3 solo. The more people you add to the party the less cut a share. Best of the combat anoms in a c3 is the Outpost Frontier Stronghold it drops 32.5m in blues + salvage. The time and risk it take to do solo (if you bring your alts, its not solo tbh). Incursion and level 4 missions have better payout than this for time and effort spent. If reward should match the risk and effort, the rewards should be greater in wspace than high sec right? So boost wspace or nerf high sec?
No, I haven't ran C3s solo, those figures are what we made in C3s with our team setup, per pilot. I'm not sure why you think solo income is relevant in wormholes, 99% of all inhabitants are members of corporations.
Incursions and L4s require a much higher ship and gear investment to reach the same income levels as C3 sites.
Rewards match the risk and effort pretty nicely in w-space, if you think hisec makes better money, by all means make your choices based on your own preferences. There's many of us who don't really care about ISK that much, and make our choices based on other criteria. Like for example having fun while playing.
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
32
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Posted - 2014.09.17 15:26:00 -
[46] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote: No, I haven't ran C3s solo, those figures are what we made in C3s with our team setup, per pilot. I'm not sure why you think solo income is relevant in wormholes, 99% of all inhabitants are members of corporations.
Incursions and L4s require a much higher ship and gear investment to reach the same income levels as C3 sites.
Rewards match the risk and effort pretty nicely in w-space, if you think hisec makes better money, by all means make your choices based on your own preferences. There's many of us who don't really care about ISK that much, and make our choices based on other criteria. Like for example having fun while playing.
If I bring 5 guys to farm a c3 system for sites, like 4 guys in cheapo bc's and some other guy to trail behind in a noctis. Can probably knock down an anom every 5 minute or so, but when you share that end of the day, you are no where near 120m hour still.
The isk/hr in wspace is over rated and not very accurate. The number of sites can be very limited to start with. You can roll your static to look for pve, but for every system you roll you need to scout and map it and take safety measures before you start do pve.
and sure having fun while playing is key. You can have fun do pvp, blow **** up and get blown up. But you still need to cover your expenses. If you lose a bill proteus during pvp, it would be nice to have isk replace it.
I tell my guys if they want to go into wspace, its not about make isk, its about the way of living. But the later doesn't exclude the other.
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1869
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Posted - 2014.09.17 15:26:00 -
[47] - Quote
Why people still keep quoting per hour figures when talking about wormhole sites is beyond me... It only applies to isk sources that are renewable! +1 |
Aiyshimin
Imperial Collective Unsettled.
68
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Posted - 2014.09.17 15:36:00 -
[48] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Why people still keep quoting per hour figures when talking about wormhole sites is beyond me... It only applies to isk sources that are renewable!
Which is exactly what wormhole anomalies are. Clean a system, roll the next one. Cap escs at home obvious exception. |
Shilalasar
Dead Sky Inc.
100
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Posted - 2014.09.17 16:09:00 -
[49] - Quote
Aiyshimin wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Why people still keep quoting per hour figures when talking about wormhole sites is beyond me... It only applies to isk sources that are renewable! Which is exactly what wormhole anomalies are. Clean a system, roll the next one. Cap escs at home obvious exception.
Wait, so RNGing for a quiet hole full of anoms (not even taking rolltime and -risk into account) is your definition of renewable, but capsites in your hole you control and you can run for 3-4 days are not? And even if highsec and lowend wh income was about the same isk/h it would be ok because higsecrunners put more money on the line? "The line" being being stupid because that is the only reason to die in highsec, compared to lowend wormholes that are by the mechanics the most dangerous space there is? |
Maker Atavuli
Core Intel Silent Requiem
18
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Posted - 2014.09.17 17:45:00 -
[50] - Quote
Pavel Sohaj wrote:Frig holes need an actual small wormhole that has 2 exits and only such smalls can fly in it. NO home advantage, system for purely frig fights. Otherwise its completely useless connection that only annoys people.
I second this. Once I got over the frig hole blues it seems there are some great opportunities for CCP to turn this into a popular win. If they would offer some incentive for frigs to actually enter a WH in the first place this could work into a nice feature. Think about it, if the rewards are high enough to mitigate some of the risk you could get a fair amount of pew AND have a chance to run some new content. There are days when there is no way in heck you would run sites, not enough folks, connection to a crappy part of K space, whatever. We all have those days for a number of reasons. So why not add some solo or very small gang frig only deadspace type pockets where you are limited to frigs only with really nice rewards. T3's tend to be king in W space simply because they are the correct tool for the job in most instances. I can't help but think that adding content to wormholes as a draw to newer players would be a good thing. |
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Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
32
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Posted - 2014.09.17 17:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Maker Atavuli wrote:Pavel Sohaj wrote:Frig holes need an actual small wormhole that has 2 exits and only such smalls can fly in it. NO home advantage, system for purely frig fights. Otherwise its completely useless connection that only annoys people. I second this. Once I got over the frig hole blues it seems there are some great opportunities for CCP to turn this into a popular win. If they would offer some incentive for frigs to actually enter a WH in the first place this could work into a nice feature. Think about it, if the rewards are high enough to mitigate some of the risk you could get a fair amount of pew AND have a chance to run some new content. There are days when there is no way in heck you would run sites, not enough folks, connection to a crappy part of K space, whatever. We all have those days for a number of reasons. So why not add some solo or very small gang frig only deadspace type pockets where you are limited to frigs only with really nice rewards. T3's tend to be king in W space simply because they are the correct tool for the job in most instances. I can't help but think that adding content to wormholes as a draw to newer players would be a good thing.
Well, I guess such a type of holes with frig only connections, could have like "burner" like sleepers with special rewards, that make them worth pursue, and worth fight over. Players would be more prone to go into a system with frigs only if ships of same size was the only risk to face there.
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