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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
187
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Posted - 2014.09.14 19:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Hi there!
Today I was replaying one of my most favourite games of all time, Conquest: Frontier Wars; an RTS focused on space fleets with not much fame but totally worth it. There I met again with a weapon system used by one of the races. I thought it could be very interesting to have such thing on EVE because of its potential uses, so there you go.
I'm aware this could be either a good or a terrible idea; I'm completely open to critics (but please post constructively).
Electric Arcs
The weapon concept comes from a mixture of the famous "Death Ray" imagined by Nikola Tesla, and the real-life Van der Graaf generators. It's basically an electrostatic device that creates and holds an enormous electric charge, and then it releases on anything that comes close to it as a lightning bolt. If there are other objects close to the initial target, additional bolts might jump from it to these new targets, effectively having the potential to hit a whole group almost simultaneously.
For EVE, this could mean a good choice against blobs, drones, and perhaps missiles too. I do not have a defined way of its mechanics yet; I prefer to post the options with my personal thoughts on each and let the community discuss.
- AoE or targeted?
First question would be to have this as either an AoE weapon, in the same way as bombs and smartbombs, or a targeted one, as all the other ones. Both options fit the game and the theme, although I imagine it being a targeted weapon (after all, it's sci-fi: you could probably force a lightning bolt to jump onto a certain target by a particle stream projected at it). Still, having them work like smartbombs with very different effects, advantages and disadvantages would be fitting too and would bring variety.
- Turret or not?
Depending on the previous question, the "Electrostatic Emitter" (EE for now on) would use Turret Slots or no other slots than Highslots, just like smartbombs do. I'd give them turret treatment if they're targeted and not if they're AoE, for the sake of consistency.
- Attributes?
Real life electric discharges are almost instantaneous. This means the EE would work just like any other weapon module, one shot per cycle. This keeps things simple, too.
Because of their nature, EE's would not consume any ammo but instead drink capacitor, as smartbombs do.
It would make sense to have S, M, L and XL versions of EE's, with their ranges and damages similar to close range turrets. Having them scale in the same way as smartbombs would be nice. I'd say them being average on damage-per-shot and range when compared to close range turrets, but having longer cycle times. That way they would be alpha focused, instead of DPS focused, while being relatively short ranged.
As an electric weapon, EM would be the most fitting damage type for EE's. However, being limited to a single damage type is not good, so we could have 2 choices:
a) Only EM, and let them have other effects to compensate (see below). b) Only EM, but with a chance of dealing thermal or even explosive damage as a side effect of the massive electric discharge (things overheat, leading to explosive -read: sudden- ruptures).
Option a) would make them easy to tank against, but could allow them to have other side effects. I imagine them having a chance of dealing the target a random EWAR effect for the duration of the cycle. For example: you activate the EE, you're lucky, the target gets jammed or target dampen'd or tracking disrupted or whatever (excepting warp scrambled) for the duration of that cycle. I know this can be either fine or OP as hell, so chances and durations should be carefully adressed. I think that would make the EE a very curious weapon and a wild card on the field, though.
- Bouncing bolts?
For now these EE's sound too similar to smartbombs. What makes them interesting is their capability of hitting a target an then having the bolt jump again to a new target who's close enough. The bounce would take place in the same instant the weapon is shot, and each target would be only hit once per cycle per EE (no rebounce). Maximum number of bounces could be increased by skills and/or mods.
Bouncing bolts would have their own max range, which could be equal -or not- to the range of the EE itself, both being able to be increased by skills and/or mods. That allows the EE to hit targets that are outside its own range, but close enough to its initial target. If the enemy is too close between itself, it risks having all its ships and drones hit at the same time, forcing them to split up or at least take away its less durable ships. This makes the EE capable of "crowd control", with the chance of hitting even the most far away targets, provided there's a "chain" of targets in between.
Secondary bolts could have either:
a) The same damage as the initial one. b) Reduced damage, which could be split depending on the total number of bounces.
About the bouncing, there are 2 options again:
a) Bolts always bounce if there are other targets in bouncing range. b) Bolts have a chance to bounce.
I'd prefer the first option, since it's what makes EE unique and makes things less dependant on chance (no one likes depending on probability too much).
That's it, more or less. Please post your thoughts on the matter. I'm aware the whole thing might sound strange and that it would need a serious look to avoid have it be OP, while making it unique. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
276
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Posted - 2014.09.14 19:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I, too, wish to throw lightning at my enemies like Zeus on a methamphetamine-fueled rage binge. +1 |
Vesan Terakol
The Vo'Shun Bad Intention
78
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Posted - 2014.09.14 21:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Yay for space dolphins! (Yes, it is a reference to a really cool weapon system from another game).
Question is, does it make sense in the context of eve, both lore-wise (Is it pseudo-realistic enough?) and gameplay-wise (Do we really need it?).
Mentioning lore, wasn't the secret weapon that Emperess Sarum used in one huge fight to wipe an entire fleet something like this? Can it be implemented as some sort of Doomsday device for Titan (as part of the capital rework)? Weaker, yet capable of striking multiple targets (capital only)? Would that add new gameplay opportunities?
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=4259327 - more suff in the Zero.Zero collection |
Iain Cariaba
319
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Posted - 2014.09.14 21:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
Sounds like a great graphics improvement for the EM smartbombs, but the niche for that kind of weapon is already filled by said smartbombs. Disclaimer: My opinion does not necessarily reflect that of my corp or alliance. My opinion is my own, and if you don't like, that is your problem. |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
17
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Posted - 2014.09.14 21:41:00 -
[5] - Quote
It's not a bad idea per se, but I can already see the coding for this being a nightmare in EVEs engine. Still +1 for a better than average idea. |
Angeal MacNova
LankTech
196
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Posted - 2014.09.14 22:09:00 -
[6] - Quote
Not a bad idea. I like the idea of a weapon system like the tesla coils in C&C. This could be the start of new pirate tech. Like how the ships are cross faction and require skill training in two factions to use, the weapons would be the same.
This particular idea would be the cross between hybrid and laser so a cross between Gallente and Amarr.
As a turret weapon that hits locked targets, the graphic is already in game. Look closely at an acceleration gate. |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
46
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Posted - 2014.09.14 22:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
we keep getting new ships and modules i'd love to see a new weapon system if CCP thought they could handle it
assuming everyone doesn't just go join riot games |
elitatwo
Congregatio
298
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Posted - 2014.09.14 23:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
So it's an electric charge shot at a Faraday Cage?
I could be wrong, since it was 20 years ago when I was in 10th grade high-school, but what is supposed to happen except yay lightnight?? signature |
Aivlis Eldelbar
Ubuntu Inc. The Fourth District
17
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Posted - 2014.09.14 23:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So it's an electric charge shot at a Faraday Cage?
I could be wrong, since it was 20 years ago when I was in 10th grade high-school, but what is supposed to happen except yay lightnight??
EVE and physics don't mix well, so don't overthink and enjoy our game of submarines with a sci-fi theme and FTL artillery shells.
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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
189
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Posted - 2014.09.15 11:17:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aivlis Eldelbar wrote:elitatwo wrote:So it's an electric charge shot at a Faraday Cage?
I could be wrong, since it was 20 years ago when I was in 10th grade high-school, but what is supposed to happen except yay lightnight?? EVE and physics don't mix well, so don't overthink and enjoy our game of submarines with a sci-fi theme and FTL artillery shells. Well, I think we can say it's not as unrealistic as it might sound.
Electrostatic charges are a real problem for real spacecraft. In fact, those using electromagnetic thrusters have to radiate electrons from another part of the craft to ensure electrostatic neutrality. Electric charges can move -read: discharge- towards anything with a different amount of charge, and they don't need a material medium for that (although proximity helps, as well as creating an artificial medium with a particle stream). The greater the difference, the greater the shock.
This being EVE, we can assume EE's would be able to hold astonishing amounts of charge (we have lasers and FTL, after all). When you release that onto a ship, charges try to distribute along it while causing all kinds of havoc in the process. Electronics get fried, non-conductive materials overheat because of Joule effect, both conductive and non-conductive materials have their physical/chemical properties revamped by the electron flux within them, leaving them unable to fulfill their purpose: pressure containers break apart, heat-reflective materials for reactors melt, anyone caugh in the middle spontaneously combusts, as well as fuels, breathable oxigen...
In fact, that's the reason why you can destroy a ship just with EM damage in EVE. Probably not as brutal as an artillery shell knocking on your window, but perhaps more espectacular. And since electric currents induce magnetic fields (and everything scales with the strengh of the current, which in turn scales with charge differences), I think we can say EM is a fitting damage type for EE's... |
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
584
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Posted - 2014.09.15 11:55:00 -
[11] - Quote
Well I will just drop this here and be a killjoy.
What ionizes vacuum.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything. |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
189
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Posted - 2014.09.15 12:26:00 -
[12] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Well I will just drop this here and be a killjoy.
What ionizes vacuum. Nothing, there's nothing to ionize. I understand the question though. You don't need a medium to transfer a charge from body A to body B: that transfer is just electrons on the move, and those can move freely in vacuum. I know the electrostatic forces are too weak to work properly in across long distances, but you can create an artificial medium by first emitting an inofensive particle stream towards the target. The discharge can then use those closely packed particles as a path towards the target. That is real life plausible, probably (I'd love to check it out on a laboratory); this being semi-hard sci-fi, I don't think it's that unrealistic.
I'm updating the OP though.
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Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1248
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Posted - 2014.09.15 13:57:00 -
[13] - Quote
If it's not named after Tesla, I don't want it. |
To mare
Advanced Technology
364
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Posted - 2014.09.15 14:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote: What ionizes vacuum.
^ this
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Squatdog
State Protectorate Caldari State
145
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Posted - 2014.09.15 15:17:00 -
[15] - Quote
Electronic Arts would draw an extortionate amount of energy to produce a flashy, yet underwhelming effect that could be achieved by other weapon systems at a fraction of the cost. The customer support would also be terrible.
That's what you mean, right? |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2014.09.15 17:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
Arya Regnar wrote:Well I will just drop this here and be a killjoy.
What ionizes vacuum. the same stuff that slows down eve ships when their engines shut down |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2014.09.15 17:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
elitatwo wrote:So it's an electric charge shot at a Faraday Cage?
I could be wrong, since it was 20 years ago when I was in 10th grade high-school, but what is supposed to happen except yay lightnight?? a faraday cage need to be grounded to work, not as easy to do in space (ok, in evespace - aka space slushie, maybe it could happen) |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
96
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Posted - 2014.09.15 17:19:00 -
[18] - Quote
Iain Cariaba wrote:Sounds like a great graphics improvement for the EM smartbombs, but the niche for that kind of weapon is already filled by said smartbombs. not exactly, smartbombs aoe is centered on the firing ship, while "jumping" aoe goes from firing ship to the nearest ship, then from that to the next ship ( nearest to the firs ship hit) and so on till there's charge. I dont know if eve really need this kind of weapon but its aoe shape make it for a completely different tactical use than smartbombs. |
Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
191
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Posted - 2014.09.15 22:13:00 -
[19] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Sounds like a great graphics improvement for the EM smartbombs, but the niche for that kind of weapon is already filled by said smartbombs. not exactly, smartbombs aoe is centered on the firing ship, while "jumping" aoe goes from firing ship to the nearest ship, then from that to the next ship ( nearest to the firs ship hit) and so on till there's charge. I dont know if eve really need this kind of weapon but its aoe shape make it for a completely different tactical use than smartbombs. That's exactly the point. A smartbomb hits everything on a small radius. An EE has the possibility of hitting everything on grid at any range... provided targets are nearby each other. Aware enemies would try to spread out, but that might hurt their logistics and tend to isolate them.
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Arya Regnar
Darwins Right Hand
586
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Posted - 2014.09.16 01:26:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sara Tosa wrote:Arya Regnar wrote:Well I will just drop this here and be a killjoy.
What ionizes vacuum. the same stuff that slows down eve ships when their engines shut down You mean the drag effect warp cores you can't deactivate without destroying them have? Theres something like that, yeah eve lore is lacking but mehh just pointing it out.
EvE-Mail me if you need anything. |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
48
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Posted - 2014.09.16 03:57:00 -
[21] - Quote
Komodo Askold wrote:Sara Tosa wrote:Iain Cariaba wrote:Sounds like a great graphics improvement for the EM smartbombs, but the niche for that kind of weapon is already filled by said smartbombs. not exactly, smartbombs aoe is centered on the firing ship, while "jumping" aoe goes from firing ship to the nearest ship, then from that to the next ship ( nearest to the firs ship hit) and so on till there's charge. I dont know if eve really need this kind of weapon but its aoe shape make it for a completely different tactical use than smartbombs. That's exactly the point. A smartbomb hits everything on a small radius. An EE has the possibility of hitting everything on grid at any range... provided targets are nearby each other. Aware enemies would try to spread out, but that might hurt their logistics and tend to isolate them. Or they are aware and force it back onto your fleet
this could also be an anti blob weapon if it gained power each timetit jumped to a new ship |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
235
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Posted - 2014.09.16 04:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
Vesan Terakol wrote:Mentioning lore, wasn't the secret weapon that Emperess Sarum used in one huge fight to wipe an entire fleet something like this? Yup. Check out what the Abaddon does.
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Chimpface Holocaust
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
16
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Posted - 2014.09.16 05:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
If made to be targeted, these wouldn't be the same as smartbombs, and we really don't have much in the way of short range targeted weapons with really high alpha damage.
Also, the secondary Ewar effect would further differentiate it from smartbombs however instead of using the standard ewar effects like jamming, sensor dampening, or tracking disruption, the weapon could have a new type of ewar effect.
My idea for this would be that after the target's shield is depleted, each hit from the arc weapon would have a chance to short out the target ships capacitor, interrupting and disabling all modules that use cap for a few seconds |
Fer'isam K'ahn
None Of One
407
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Posted - 2014.09.16 13:44:00 -
[24] - Quote
+1
Like the idea, am at work so will check in later ... ;)
Cheers Join the BIG Lottery (see Bio ingame), oldest and only non-profit Lottery in EVE, every second Monday. Wire ISK to BIG GAMES for tickets ! Join the Channel, have fun, being a lucky winner is optional ,)
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Komodo Askold
No Code of Conduct Fluffeh Bunneh Murder Squad
191
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Posted - 2014.09.17 21:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
Chimpface Holocaust wrote:If made to be targeted, these wouldn't be the same as smartbombs, and we really don't have much in the way of short range targeted weapons with really high alpha damage.
Also, the secondary Ewar effect would further differentiate it from smartbombs however instead of using the standard ewar effects like jamming, sensor dampening, or tracking disruption, the weapon could have a new type of ewar effect.
My idea for this would be that after the target's shield is depleted, each hit from the arc weapon would have a chance to short out the target ships capacitor, interrupting and disabling all modules that use cap for a few seconds That's a interesting EWAR effect! Sounds like it would make the capacitor go haywire and become useless for some seconds, before it stabilizes again. An easier solution would be to make the secondary effect just a Neut one, but I'd too prefer it to be an unique effect.
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Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
236
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Posted - 2014.09.17 22:15:00 -
[26] - Quote
Chimpface Holocaust wrote:My idea for this would be that after the target's shield is depleted, each hit from the arc weapon would have a chance to short out the target ships capacitor, interrupting and disabling all modules that use cap for a few seconds So, basically, you want armor-tanked ships (especially Amarr) to be useless. |
Chimpface Holocaust
OX-Industrial
19
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Posted - 2014.10.02 04:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
Komi Toran wrote:Chimpface Holocaust wrote:My idea for this would be that after the target's shield is depleted, each hit from the arc weapon would have a chance to short out the target ships capacitor, interrupting and disabling all modules that use cap for a few seconds So, basically, you want armor-tanked ships (especially Amarr) to be useless.
This would only effect active tanks (shield too)
passive tanks would be immune unless they use active buffers
speed tanks would also be affected as the effect would disrupt afterburners and MWDs as well
but you are correct in that amarr ships would be most noticably affected because: lazors |
Komi Toran
Paragon Trust The Bastion
269
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Posted - 2014.10.02 05:21:00 -
[28] - Quote
Chimpface Holocaust wrote:This would only effect active tanks (shield too) No, it would only affect armor tanks.
Shield tanks won't care: as long as their shields are up, they're immune. When their shields aren't up, they're dead anyway, so who cares about their modules?
Armor tanks, however, will lose their shields in the first volley or two, at which point, your little weapon turns off propulsion mods, weapons, hardeners, reppers, ewar, scrams and points, and any active assist modules. Then they die, and you didn't even have to scratch off 10% of their EHP to do it.. |
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