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Franky B
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.03 12:16:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Franky B on 03/08/2006 12:17:12 To this date, eve has introduced expansions which have (brilliantly) introduced new modes of gameplay and variants on already established fields. But when will it all become too much? Take for example, the usual menagerie of modules, ships and skills that each major expansion splays into our hands.
One of the most important things to do when adding these items is to balance them accordingly, so that no item becomes completely redundant. Herein then lies the problem, I just can't see CCP being able to balance a game where there are T1 T2 T3 T4 TN levels of ships or 3 tiers of each class ship.
What will happen when Titans become an acknowledged status quo; no longer the centre of gossip for those au fait alliances? in the past, we've seen ships get bigger and bigger, and their range diversify past both sides of the rainbow. sooner or later CCP will hit a breaking point where theres just too many choices and not enough scales to balance the gold, frankincense and myrrh.
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David Corbett
Celestial Fleet Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.03 12:28:00 -
[2]
Edited by: David Corbett on 03/08/2006 12:28:19 Titans will probably never be common as the need simply isn't there. For an average player, flying a titan likely offers absolutely zero advantage in doing what they want to do over a battleship or HAC or command battlecruiser. I don't know how many pilots would be interested in being trapped in a 50b isk liability, as I don't believe they can be re-docked once un-docked. ---
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Gariuys
Evil Strangers Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.03 12:30:00 -
[3]
Balance will become harder and harder, and will shift even more from on a ship by ship basis to a overall balance. Not a horrible thing, since balance is very hard to get right.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.03 12:34:00 -
[4]
Originally by: David Corbett I don't know how many pilots would be interested in being trapped in a 50b isk liability, as I don't believe they can be re-docked once un-docked.
I know at least one if the titan comes with mining beams
and on topic, I think CCP themself has gotten tired of their product before we hit that point and thus they decide to discontinue the development of EVE for most likely another game. EVE:2 anyone?
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Jim McGregor
Caldari
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Posted - 2006.08.03 12:35:00 -
[5]
My advice is actually do train for several races. People say you need to specialize, but I dont agree. There are hardly any 1 vs 1 fights, and for those occasions, the few extra % that level V will give you will hardly ever make a difference. Instead the outcome is decided by what ship you fly, what modules you have and how you pilot it.
--- Eve Wiki | Eve Tribune | Eve Pirate |
Burlock Ironfist
Celtic Anarchy
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Posted - 2006.08.03 13:16:00 -
[6]
every game will come to a end, even eve, its just how long it will take, introducing new content will do eve more good than bad, because it keeps people interested who have played the game to the max, but yes adventually it will all come to a end... hopefully before then there will be eve2
"opinions our my own thank you very much" |
wizzkid
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Posted - 2006.08.03 13:26:00 -
[7]
Edited by: wizzkid on 03/08/2006 13:28:04 i think they are gonna focus more on internal game content such as maybe a stockmarket and ironing out bugs. Hopefully they will stop introducing ships every time theres a patch and make more economy stuff. And then their is planetary flight, sub damage on mods and so forth.
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Caleb Paine
Itchy Trigger Finger Brothers
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Posted - 2006.08.03 13:47:00 -
[8]
CCP has seen that same problem and has acted on it and HAS been acting on for a very long time. Creating bigger and bigger ships and ultimately titans is how they made the whole skillstree 'longer' and this relied on specialization.
But what they also did was introduce T2 ships, HACS, interdictors, Recons and now the Tier 2 BC's and Tier 3 BS's. THAT is how they combat the problem you described. These give you more choices, less specialization, more toys. This is what 'widens' the skilltree and frankly, is what makes the game interesting.
A longer skilltree only favors older characters, with lots of money and backing from corps/alliances. A wider skilltree favors everyone but the really new players (but to them anything is new and exciting so no problem there) and because it gives you choices it also caters for better teamwork; you now have Covert Ops covering the front and back of your gang/fleet, there's interdictors that have a very defined job, commandships help in various ways and reconships in groups are just awesome.
No more the 4 BS/3 zealot gangs, too easy, too plain, too boring.
----------------- Death smiles at us all, all a man can do is smile back.
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Skawl
GeoTech
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Posted - 2006.08.03 14:12:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Skawl on 03/08/2006 14:14:57 EVE never dies...
I can see the lifespan of EVE being much greater than the standard MMO - it's already proving this by continuing to grow after being out for 3 years.
Most MMOs suffer from big release, short period of rapid growth and then a steady decline to 'cult following'.
The genius of EVE is that theres no real content in the traditional MMO sense of the word - that is to say you don't procress from dungeon a to b to c to d... in order to keep fighting mobs your level.
The content is almost entirely player driven, whether it's the alliances clashing in deep 0.0 for territory or the humble highsec miner earning his crust on omber - you're not doing anything because some NPC told you (missions to an extent I know...) or just to grind xp.
For that reason, EVE can continue to grow well past other MMOs - theres never a point where you've done everything o have learnt every skill. If they can keep the game growing and successfully keep the engine updated to it looks glossy theres no reason this won't have a longer lifecycle than EQ1 which still has a fairly good subscriber base even today.
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Franky B
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.03 14:17:00 -
[10]
but see, the widening pool of ships and modules is also something that can spin out of control. sure it gives more diversity, but without adding new modes of play, diversity = oversaturation.
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Nicoli Voldkif
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Posted - 2006.08.03 15:39:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Franky B but see, the widening pool of ships and modules is also something that can spin out of control. sure it gives more diversity, but without adding new modes of play, diversity = oversaturation.
I think your missing the great advantage of EVE, there are NO modes of play. We don't have to wait for CCP to come up with something different than Raiding or CTF PVP. I'm sure there are many players from beta that haven't tried all the game play options of EVE. people make thier own modes of playing EVE and to some extent I'm the playerbase has shocked CCP with how we've started to interact with thier enviroment that they have provided. Infact its nice to see CCP trying to catch up with programing stuff to help the modes that we have already created.
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Gila Munja
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Posted - 2006.08.03 15:48:00 -
[12]
It's a difficult one to call. Generally all expansion stuff has to be a bit better at least than what existed previously.
As long as they are micro increments that may give Eve a long life. They've done pretty well so far. Tier 1 battleships are far from defunct - Typhoon & Dominix for example.
Doing something like the Trials Of Atlantis expansion for Dark Age Of Camelot, that introduced a ton of seriously uber equipment generally for the hardcore only, would be a bad move. In fact it was enough of a bad move for DAoC that there are now some "classic" servers that don't support it.
With Eve it's all or nothing as it's unsharded, so they don't have the choice of different server types.
For me, extra content is better than better mods and better ships etc. The latter is always in danger of creating runaway MMOG item inflation.
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Franky B
Mentally Unstable Enterprises
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Posted - 2006.08.03 15:53:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Nicoli Voldkif
Originally by: Franky B but see, the widening pool of ships and modules is also something that can spin out of control. sure it gives more diversity, but without adding new modes of play, diversity = oversaturation.
I think your missing the great advantage of EVE, there are NO modes of play. We don't have to wait for CCP to come up with something different than Raiding or CTF PVP. I'm sure there are many players from beta that haven't tried all the game play options of EVE. people make thier own modes of playing EVE and to some extent I'm the playerbase has shocked CCP with how we've started to interact with thier enviroment that they have provided. Infact its nice to see CCP trying to catch up with programing stuff to help the modes that we have already created.
there are always fundamental modes of play which spin off slight (but never revolutionary) changes. eve is sandbox yes, but there are always limits. as you mentioned in your last sentence, CCP DO have to add code for newer modes of play, meaning that while there are MORE out there. the game cannot possibly allow ALL of them in 1 go. it has to be added to... expanded.
by mode of play, I mean trader, miner, pvper (solo, small, empire, pirate, alliance etc), explorer (though this is more a misnomer, its not so much exploration as detection), pve'er ETC.
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Mr Cleann
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Posted - 2006.08.03 16:07:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Mr Cleann on 03/08/2006 16:07:59 Eve will be around for many many years. Back when I started to get an interest in eve (the glory days of my trial account) I sent ccp an e-mail asking them about how long the game would be around, As I didnt want to have happen to me as what did with the last game mmorpg I played. Which was only for about 2 months before EA closed it. I was told that eve would be around for atleast a minimum of 15 yraes or more. Since the game is only aboput 2 or 3 yrs old atm. We have a long ways to go yet. Assuming that what i was told is accurate and not their way of enticing me to become a active player, Your grand children are liabel to be flying frigates and battleships before this game ends. lol it will be come the gerber baby food or mc donalds of the game industry lol
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.03 16:09:00 -
[15]
I see EVE like a game of musical chairs. Sooner or later the music is going to stop, and someone is going to be left without a chair.
I'm not saying that the game has one more year to it, but if it did, and they were to announce today that the game has one more year to it, what do you think would happen to those people who came onboard yesterday?
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Marcus Druallis
Quantum Industries Prime Orbital Systems
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Posted - 2006.08.03 16:10:00 -
[16]
When people start to leave, it might be good. We'll have the old, empty Eve. --
Originally by: Ghosthowl At what level can i PVP?
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Brooks Carlson
Gallente The Splinter Syndicate
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Posted - 2006.08.03 16:25:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Brooks Carlson on 03/08/2006 16:25:48 To me - the biggest advantage Eve has in the longetivity stakes, is that fact that it's based on a PROPER persistent universe... This, to me, gives it the most amount of potential, which in my eyes, hasn't really been touched yet... From what I can tell - with some of the things coming in the next few patches/upgrades - CCP realise this too, and feel that they're now ready to start doing something about it - (mainly looking at the factional warfare etc.).
This is one of the few games I've played, where I'm actually seeing more potential, the more I play it - and I'm not talking about following the 'same stuff but better' pattern/disease either - though it won't surprise me if some of the stuff it introduces suffers from that to some degree - so long as the main gameplay influencing/changing elements don't suffer from it - I'll be happy - (and I'm not really talking about the ships here either). Brooks Carlson,
A veteran of the battle of Endor, and a valued member of Lieutenant Page's Commando's... |
Tristan Acoma
Caldari The Eleventh Commandment
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Posted - 2006.08.03 16:47:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Tristan Acoma on 03/08/2006 16:48:53
Originally by: Brooks Carlson Edited by: Brooks Carlson on 03/08/2006 16:25:48 To me - the biggest advantage Eve has in the longetivity stakes, is that fact that it's based on a PROPER persistent universe... This, to me, gives it the most amount of potential, which in my eyes, hasn't really been touched yet... From what I can tell - with some of the things coming in the next few patches/upgrades - CCP realise this too, and feel that they're now ready to start doing something about it - (mainly looking at the factional warfare etc.).
You just hit on the 'answer' - the factional warfare, improvements to the universe (ground landings?) and such are what will keep eve going. You can only have so much "new tech" before the universe needs to be more fully flushed out - I think that is the best way to take the combat as well. Tactical environments (when possible). Nebulae with various levels of sensor dampening (ships you can "see" onscreen but not in the overview, or spots where you can't see and have to rely on your sensors.), astral bodies (comets), solar flares, etc. Asteroids that provide cover, gravity wells the closer you get to a planet, sensor tactics in fleet battles, etc.
The game is already incredbily smart, but the tactics are range and knowing your mods/ your enemy's potential and ship well and your allies in more than 1v1... adding modules continually without adding more purpose to using those modules is .... *sigh*
Just like on the ocean where a pirate's navigator was the most valued crewman (maybe a good coook ;) ) having to actually know the "sea" would add a depth to the game we so far have not seen (not to say the game isn't already deep!).
"All I need is a tall ship and a star to steer her by" and all that :)
And don't quote server requirements to me, that's been done here before, obviously not all of it can happen now. Hell, it's probable that most of it won't happen in the short term (if at all), but I could see this game being even better if not every patch of space was more or less the -same- patch of space (excepting # of stargates and collidables that cause you not to be able to warp 'cuz you hit them ;( )
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000Hunter000
Gallente Dummy Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.03 16:58:00 -
[19]
If ccp announced today that eve had only 1 more year to run, they could just as well pull the plug on the servers the same day cuz that would be the end in several weeks, people would start to look for other mmog's and other mmog's would start to advertize, 'eve is dead come join us' (like ccp did when EA announced the shutdown of E&B)
I don't think that will happen just yet though, i think eve has a few more years to go (hopefully) Banner will be updated shortly |
RaThlan Naaoor
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Posted - 2006.08.03 16:59:00 -
[20]
Originally by: 000Hunter000 If ccp announced today that eve had only 1 more year to run, they could just as well pull the plug on the servers the same day cuz that would be the end in several weeks, people would start to look for other mmog's and other mmog's would start to advertize, 'eve is dead come join us' (like ccp did when EA announced the shutdown of E&B)
I don't think that will happen just yet though, i think eve has a few more years to go (hopefully)
Hopefully many more than that - there are some things in the dev blogs that are just a twinkle in their eyes :)
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.03 17:01:00 -
[21]
I think that if it were up to CCP the game would be around for a long time.
Then again, I'm not sure a lot of the factors that will determine the longevity of the game has much to do with CCP. If for some unforeseen circumstance they cannot go on, we have problems.
If it shakes out that the game will end in 30 days, and the next skill someone wants is on a 31 day timer, I wouldn't blame them for being mad as hell.
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RaThlan Naaoor
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Posted - 2006.08.03 17:07:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Tarkan Kador I think that if it were up to CCP the game would be around for a long time.
Then again, I'm not sure a lot of the factors that will determine the longevity of the game has much to do with CCP. If for some unforeseen circumstance they cannot go on, we have problems.
If it shakes out that the game will end in 30 days, and the next skill someone wants is on a 31 day timer, I wouldn't blame them for being mad as hell.
Short of a major world calamity it seems somewhat unlikely that CCP would suddenly fold in 30 days. At a minimum it would just stagnate.
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Tarkan Kador
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.03 17:16:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Tarkan Kador on 03/08/2006 17:17:29
Originally by: RaThlan Naaoor
Short of a major world calamity it seems somewhat unlikely that CCP would suddenly fold in 30 days. At a minimum it would just stagnate.
You see that's the thing. Even if they were planning on folding in a year, they wouldn't tell us. They couldn't tell us. The way the game is set up with the time based skills, it would kill the game as soon as the announcement was made, just like 000Hunter000 said.
Crazy things happen in this business even to the best of games.
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000Hunter000
Gallente Dummy Inc.
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Posted - 2006.08.03 17:19:00 -
[24]
atm the only real threat to ccp would be another company announcing the launch of a new (and awesome looking) space MMOG ala eve. I mean what other alternatives are there that are as good atm? (mogg's ala eve i mean) Banner will be updated shortly |
Ather Ialeas
Viziam
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Posted - 2006.08.03 17:25:00 -
[25]
Like someone said, the more stuff you have, the harder the balancing will be. This also means that if you add three half-assed things five times it gets way harder to balance all them after adding them all than adding just one of them, balancing and then adding another. The reason the nerfbatter isn't doing things like that at the moment is because that's the most boring way of actually doing stuff but unfortunately, effective and fun things for players != interesting for developers to mess around with. ________________________________________________
Originally by: Nidhoggur How could I possibly be wrong, using the figures directly from Eve?
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