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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
482
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 09:59:00 -
[1] - Quote
Did some rage rolling tonight... wasn't as bad as I thought it'd be. Once we got into the groove we were rolling the hole every 5 mins and blackholes added roughly 1 min. For comparison pre-hyperion could roll the hole every 4 mins. The ships we were using weren't specialized rolling ships either. Had pvp fit dread and orca used for rolling. If we got specialized rolling fits I'm sure we could drop that down to 3-4 mins per hole.
Wh changes haven't really effected my crew too much. I still think the changes really **** over the little guys in wspace tho.
Just thought I'd inform those that haven't tried rage rolling since Hyperion Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Jack Miton
Isogen 5
3796
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 10:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
You do warp off and back method or slowboat?
Stuck In Here With Me:-á http://sihwm.blogspot.com.au/ Down the Pipe:-á http://downthepipe-wh.com/ |
Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
482
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Posted - 2014.09.16 10:12:00 -
[3] - Quote
We were using the warp off and back method Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1866
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 12:08:00 -
[4] - Quote
Yeah we did the same thing the other night with only 4 people active. The mechanic works fine imo. +1 |
HerrBert
V0LTA Triumvirate.
526
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Posted - 2014.09.16 12:51:00 -
[5] - Quote
Holy **** did it take an entire research team of overpayed monkeys to come up with that solution? Community-Challenge: Make Jack Miton sing a Duett with me. http://www.youtube.com/user/HerrBertism Jibbychiggawooooow - CSM 9 Corbexx
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CivilWars
Rolled Out Triumvirate.
185
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Posted - 2014.09.16 13:16:00 -
[6] - Quote
ISD can we get a lock. There is not enough **** and vinegar in this topic, and it is spreading lies and propaganda that you can still roll holes even with the mass based spawn distance changes, which we all decided was false even before the patch was released. We Re-Rolled. Stop by public channel Rolled Out to join the fun. |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
872
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 14:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
This was mentioned as an option in the Wormhole townhall meeting. People said it wasn't an option because it would take too long to do / need your ship to be away fron the hole and would be as quick to just slow boat... How peoples views have now changed... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
31
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Posted - 2014.09.16 14:40:00 -
[8] - Quote
CivilWars wrote:ISD can we get a lock. There is not enough **** and vinegar in this topic, and it is spreading lies and propaganda that you can still roll holes even with the mass based spawn distance changes, which we all decided was false even before the patch was released.
The risk of rolling your static when you still control your enviroment is still not that a big deal. If you have multiple connections you more prone to be somewhat risk averse.
If you live in a c4 or what not, I doubt you will start roll those orcas anytime soon with active neighbours. This wasnt safe before patch either, because you could always collapse yourself in with your target if you wanted. Sure could be annoying to warp to a c4 and see a orca close it in your face, but that ability gave these guys a sense of false security. The increased risk, and more so the percieved increased risk just make for a poorer gameplay.
If OP had several active holes I doubt he would rolled with 4 guys.
The percieved higher risk is a greater problem than the actual increased risk, because it affect the player mentality more. Imagine, delayed local in null, or remove concorde from incursion systems? Players would find something else to do. You can be hard and say adapt or move on, but replacing players that move on, isn't that easy though.
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Agrippa Arkaral
Vertical Rebirth
12
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Posted - 2014.09.16 15:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Is this still considered slowboating? http://i.imgur.com/QKFNr9w.png |
Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
22
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Posted - 2014.09.16 15:53:00 -
[10] - Quote
Aquila Sagitta wrote:I still think the changes really **** over the little guys in wspace tho.
Some small corp perspective on this, as we did a bit over the weekend. I wouldn't say rage-rolling of old, more like sloath-rolling... (needs a meme)
The spawn distance does leave you exposed in a battleship, i think the furthest i spawned was around 10-12km. This on its own isn't that bad as a time penalty, but I'd say the biggest pain is the time it takes to roll. Not so much because of mass-spawn, but because we now tend to have more connections than before. Although i think this was largely due to having to roll 4-5 wormholes with as many battleships. I think it probably took around an hour to close 2 C5's, 1 C4, 1 C3... novelty factor aside, its not exactly fun.
On the other hand, ninja rolling to close a hole you cant handle is now pretty much not an option. |
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Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
873
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 16:44:00 -
[11] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:Wouldn't say rage-rolling of old, more like sloath-rolling... (needs a meme)
Epic paint skills brought to you by Seraph Essael.
Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Icarus Able
Revenant Tactical
479
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 17:02:00 -
[12] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:Aquila Sagitta wrote:I still think the changes really **** over the little guys in wspace tho.
Some small corp perspective on this, as we did a bit over the weekend. I wouldn't say rage-rolling of old, more like sloath-rolling... (needs a meme) The spawn distance does leave you exposed in a battleship, i think the furthest i spawned was around 10-12km. This on its own isn't that bad as a time penalty, but I'd say the biggest pain is the time it takes to roll. Not so much because of mass-spawn, but because we now tend to have more connections than before. Although i think this was largely due to having to roll 4-5 wormholes with as many battleships. I think it probably took around an hour to close 2 C5's, 1 C4, 1 C3... novelty factor aside, its not exactly fun. On the other hand, ninja rolling to close a hole you cant handle is now pretty much not an option.
More holes does not equal more time as one person can only jump once every 4 minutes. You just warp to the next hole and so on and so forth
Its not rage rolling thats really been effected its smaller corps ability to combat roll and try and trap a portion of a larger fleet. Now we have no option but to ask them to ship down or just pos up. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1867
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 17:36:00 -
[13] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:
If OP had several active holes I doubt he would rolled with 4 active pilots.
Would this not have been the case before Hyperion?
+1 |
Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
23
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Posted - 2014.09.16 17:55:00 -
[14] - Quote
Icarus Able wrote: More holes does not equal more time as one person can only jump once every 4 minutes. You just warp to the next hole and so on and so forth
I agree it doesn't always mean more time. However, that assumes all holes are empty and you know the chain well enough to take the risks. Sometimes you might need to sacrifice a rolling ship for a scout or a pvp ship, because you know there is a risk and want the ability to react [by that i mean reship for pvp]. Re-reading my post, i could have been clearer on that.
Also, awesome paint skills Seraph and thanks for the local spam on our next sloth marathon :D |
Seraph Essael
Devils Diciples League of Infamy
874
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 18:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:Also, awesome paint skills Seraph and thanks for the local spam on our next sloth marathon :D What can I say, I do try... Quoted from Doc Fury: "Concerned citizens: Doc seldom plays EVE on the weekends during spring and summer, so you will always be on your own for a couple days a week. Doc spends that time collecting kittens for the on-going sacrifices, engaging in reckless outdoor activities, and speaking in the 3rd person." |
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
31
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Posted - 2014.09.16 18:22:00 -
[16] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Ruffio Sepico wrote:
If OP had several active holes I doubt he would rolled with 4 active pilots.
Would this not have been the case before Hyperion?
More likely to try ninja close a hole right when not landing cap far off the hole?
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Aquila Sagitta
Blue-Fire
485
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Posted - 2014.09.16 18:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
We were rage rolling with 2 people. A corp m8 and myself. We had 5 accounts between the two of us. We started rage rolling with an open nullsec in our home (it had been dead all day). On our second or third hole a new connection opened up into us. It was another null, after a couple minutes scouting we deemed it safe and continued rage rolling.
Many connecting wh != danger
Danger = the people inside the chain. No people; No danger. You can quickly scout systems and see if there's any real danger. I can scan a 5+ wh chain in 20minutes and tell you where you might get fights or if the chains dead.
Another thing to note is that on multiple occasions now BF has been actively scouting wh's when a dread + bs show up on scanner. By the time we drop probes and scan them(<1 min) they have either rolled the hole or we get there just in time to watch the hole die. Blue-Fire Best Fire |
Andrew Jester
Origin. Black Legion.
685
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 19:08:00 -
[18] - Quote
Jez Amatin wrote:Aquila Sagitta wrote:I still think the changes really **** over the little guys in wspace tho.
Some small corp perspective on this, as we did a bit over the weekend. I wouldn't say rage-rolling of old, more like sloath-rolling... (needs a meme) The spawn distance does leave you exposed in a battleship, i think the furthest i spawned was around 10-12km. This on its own isn't that bad as a time penalty, but I'd say the biggest pain is the time it takes to roll. Not so much because of mass-spawn, but because we now tend to have more connections than before. Although i think this was largely due to having to roll 4-5 wormholes with as many battleships. I think it probably took around an hour to close 2 C5's, 1 C4, 1 C3... novelty factor aside, its not exactly fun. On the other hand, ninja rolling to close a hole you cant handle is now pretty much not an option.
If you're worried about losing a battleship, you're doing it wrong. Use a typhoon with 5 overdrives in lows. With a heated prop mod you can get it going 2355 m/s.
If you have to roll that many holes, you may want to invest in an Orca or two and just have a ship on the other side to web them around. If thuggin' was a category I'd win a Grammy |
Jez Amatin
Enso Corp
24
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Posted - 2014.09.16 19:27:00 -
[19] - Quote
agreed welping battleships isn't really the concern, its just nice to try and convert it into a bit of a brawl, win or lose v0v fun was had by all.
may give the phoon a go tho, thx. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2223
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Posted - 2014.09.16 19:59:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have removed a rule breaking post.
The Rules: 5. Trolling is prohibited.
Trolling is a defined as a post that is deliberately designed for the purpose of angering and insulting other players in an attempt to incite retaliation or an emotional response. Posts of this nature are disruptive, often abusive and do not contribute to the sense of community that CCP promote. ISD Ezwal Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Rek Seven
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
1867
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 20:44:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ruffio Sepico wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Ruffio Sepico wrote:
If OP had several active holes I doubt he would rolled with 4 active pilots.
Would this not have been the case before Hyperion? More likely to try ninja close a hole right when not landing cap far off the hole?
Yeah but risk free (almost) rolling was the main reason for the change in the first place. They're both moot points imo. +1 |
Ruffio Sepico
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
31
|
Posted - 2014.09.16 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Rek Seven wrote:Ruffio Sepico wrote:Rek Seven wrote:Ruffio Sepico wrote:
If OP had several active holes I doubt he would rolled with 4 active pilots.
Would this not have been the case before Hyperion? More likely to try ninja close a hole right when not landing cap far off the hole? Yeah but risk free (almost) rolling was the main reason for the change in the first place. They're both moot points imo.
Yeah but if you are rolling your own static, you can keep roll it more or less risk free. If you rolling a incoming you always been at risk. I both lost to rolling myself and killed others rolling, it never been risk free. Comes down to what level the agressor want to comit at sometimes.
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umnikar
Fishbone Industries
44
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Posted - 2014.09.16 22:02:00 -
[23] - Quote
Andrew Jester wrote:[quote=Jez Amatin]
If you're worried about losing a battleship, you're doing it wrong. Use a typhoon with 5 overdrives in lows. With a heated prop mod you can get it going 2355 m/s.
If you have to roll that many holes, you may want to invest in an Orca or two and just have a ship on the other side to web them around.
He is not done rolling with one time in/out. He then sits on the other side with a nice overdrive tank. *honk*
Na, you better roll in pvp battleships and shoot/scram what you can if someone feels the gank. You will be surprised how many do not expect that... |
Angsty Teenager
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
584
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 04:07:00 -
[24] - Quote
Who cares if it "isn't as bad as you thought"
The point is it's a terrible mechanic that only serves to waste players time. Fact is that rage rolling was risk free before and still is.
If you warp to the hole with 2 caps and an orca, and then jump through, nobody is possibly going to be able to scan down that new exit and respond with a fleet to kill you before you can--in the worst case scenario--slowboat your caps back to the wormhole. It just takes longer now. I strongly disagree with mechanics that simply make something more complicated without any significant change in the status quo.
I also don't think that standard jumping is any riskier either. For capitals, your risk is just as high now as it was before--it was very easy to carrier trap people before, just nobody did it because they didn't know how/didn't want to wait/etc...
For subcaps, there is 0 risk unless you're dumb. Any battleship properly fit moves fast enough to get back to the wormhole, and frankly any BS prior to this patch that managed to escape people decloaking to kill it just got lucky. Bouncing a ship back and forth between wormholes isn't hard.
In fact, I think that specific ships are EVEN SAFER now because of the change (read: cloaky T3's) since they always land out of decloak range whereas there used to be the chance of landing within 2 km of the wormhole and not being able to cloak.
This mechanic only makes it easier to catch dumb people (which nobody needs help with), at the expense of wasting the time of everybody else. If you like the mechanic, you're clearly a psychotic, unemployed, lazy, slowbrained manchild who doesn't value his time enough. Rage rolling was already a time waste to being with. Now it's not only LONGER, it's also MORE INVOLVED. You either waste much much much more time burning your caps back to the wormhole, or have to expend needless effort to burn a ping and warp/web warp your caps.
What a joke.
Oh yea, the fact that rage rolling is still nessecary is a ******* joke as well. Why don't you fix that CCP, then maybe this change wouldn't be so bad. Fact is that w-space is not populated enough (no thanks to Hyperion), and there is no method of navigating effectively to where you want to go in w-space. Rage-rolling is the answer to both of these and I think this should be your top priority to fix because it's the worst emergent gameplay ever -- basically:
1) ROLL DICE 2) WASTE 2 MORE HOURS ROLLING DICE BECAUSE IT TAKES A GAJILLION HOURS 3) ???? 4) Eventually profit after rage rolling long enough that you managed to get deep vein thrombosis for sitting in your chair too long. |
Saavik Ambraelle
Lazerhawks
33
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 04:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
Protip, use a nano nag for rolling Intoxication is the most effective of warp scramblers. |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
210
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Posted - 2014.09.17 05:50:00 -
[26] - Quote
It's great for inducing fights, or potential fights. It also stops the stupid bears dead in their tracks.
Overall pvp corps seem to love this change, even if it does take a minute extra to roll a hole. |
Senn Denroth
Lazerhawks
210
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Posted - 2014.09.17 05:53:00 -
[27] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote:Who cares if it "isn't as bad as you thought"
The point is it's a terrible mechanic that only serves to waste players time. Fact is that rage rolling was risk free before and still is.
If you warp to the hole with 2 caps and an orca, and then jump through, nobody is possibly going to be able to scan down that new exit and respond with a fleet to kill you before you can--in the worst case scenario--slowboat your caps back to the wormhole. It just takes longer now. I strongly disagree with mechanics that simply make something more complicated without any significant change in the status quo.
I also don't think that standard jumping is any riskier either. For capitals, your risk is just as high now as it was before--it was very easy to carrier trap people before, just nobody did it because they didn't know how/didn't want to wait/etc...
For subcaps, there is 0 risk unless you're dumb. Any battleship properly fit moves fast enough to get back to the wormhole, and frankly any BS prior to this patch that managed to escape people decloaking to kill it just got lucky. Bouncing a ship back and forth between wormholes isn't hard.
In fact, I think that specific ships are EVEN SAFER now because of the change (read: cloaky T3's) since they always land out of decloak range whereas there used to be the chance of landing within 2 km of the wormhole and not being able to cloak.
This mechanic only makes it easier to catch dumb people (which nobody needs help with), at the expense of wasting the time of everybody else. If you like the mechanic, you're clearly a psychotic, unemployed, lazy, slowbrained manchild who doesn't value his time enough. Rage rolling was already a time waste to being with. Now it's not only LONGER, it's also MORE INVOLVED. You either waste much much much more time burning your caps back to the wormhole, or have to expend needless effort to burn a ping and warp/web warp your caps.
What a joke.
Oh yea, the fact that rage rolling is still nessecary is a ******* joke as well. Why don't you fix that CCP, then maybe this change wouldn't be so bad. Fact is that w-space is not populated enough (no thanks to Hyperion), and there is no method of navigating effectively to where you want to go in w-space. Rage-rolling is the answer to both of these and I think this should be your top priority to fix because it's the worst emergent gameplay ever -- basically:
1) ROLL DICE 2) WASTE 2 MORE HOURS ROLLING DICE BECAUSE IT TAKES A GAJILLION HOURS 3) ???? 4) Eventually profit after rage rolling long enough that you managed to get deep vein thrombosis for sitting in your chair too long.
Why did I write words when I could have just quoted this guy that loves the changes. I agree with this dude, the change has been good, keep up the good work CCP. |
Maduin Shi
Perkone Caldari State
111
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 06:11:00 -
[28] - Quote
Angsty Teenager wrote: #rant
So PL has a wormhole presence? This I didn't know.
Angsty Teenager wrote: The point is it's a terrible mechanic that only serves to waste players time. Fact is that rage rolling was risk free before and still is.
Oh yeah, that was known since the day mass/spawn distance was announced. Even before it hit TQ. We don't know if this change was targeted at rage-rolling specifically though or just hole rolling generally.
I'm more interested in knowing if y'all are going back to rage rolling just to try it out or is it because the naturally formed chains are turning up empty now? |
Lakshata Chawla
Blue-Fire
98
|
Posted - 2014.09.17 06:13:00 -
[29] - Quote
Maduin Shi wrote: I'm more interested in knowing if y'all are going back to rage rolling just to try it out or is it because the naturally formed chains are turning up empty now?
We had a specific target we were looking for, other than that we use our expansive chains and usually only roll once , or not at all on a good day.
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Michael1995
Lazerhawks
161
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Posted - 2014.09.17 08:17:00 -
[30] - Quote
Maduin Shi wrote:Angsty Teenager wrote: #rant
So PL has a wormhole presence? This I didn't know.
Does Perkone have a wormhole presence too? One does not simply buy their way into Goonswarm. |
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