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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Dia'Sarbator
Barren Asteroid Research Corp
0
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Posted - 2014.09.17 19:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
I was playing around with this on EFT .... The catalyst destroyer is 300 dps higher than any of the other destroyers in eve.... Which is ironic for the fact that it is almost double the dps of the lower dps Destroyers.
Shouldn't the catalyst be brought in line with the other Destroyers ? |
Amonios Zula
Aeon Ascendant
20
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Posted - 2014.09.17 20:27:00 -
[2] - Quote
Other destroyers can reach for miles (with their respective short range weapons) where as the catlyst has like a 3 inch range. quite a sacrifice for damage when your ship is constructed from bearly reinforced cardboard. |
Cetaphil Thrace
The Scope Gallente Federation
12
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Posted - 2014.09.17 20:29:00 -
[3] - Quote
I agree with Amonios, it has no range compared to the others. |
Dia'Sarbator
Barren Asteroid Research Corp
1
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Posted - 2014.09.17 20:34:00 -
[4] - Quote
It has the same range as the convetor (sp?) they have identical bonuses.... yet the Catalyst can reach 750 dps and the convetor which has 7 turrets and 1 launcher reaches only 450.
So Range is really boiling down to your choice of gun / ammo...
The real problem i see with the Catalyst is the fact that it has 3 lows and 8 turret hard points... Loose 1 turret hard point like the rest of all the t1 destroyers and the catalyst still is the highest dps destroyer but is more inline with the rest of the destroyers... |
Tash'k Omar
0ne Percent. Odin's Call
26
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Posted - 2014.09.17 21:40:00 -
[5] - Quote
I think the fact that the catalyst has such high DPS is balanced by the fact that every time I activate my guns Concord comes and blows me up. |
Battle BV Master
Executor BV Sovereign Infinity
48
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Posted - 2014.09.17 22:13:00 -
[6] - Quote
Its Blasters, great DPS, no range.
And in the case of the Cata, well most Glass Cannons no tank.
I do not fear a Cata at all compared to most dessies. Cata can only do one thing so its easy to counter and kill. |
Jonah Gravenstein
Machiavellian Space Bastards
20771
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Posted - 2014.09.17 22:59:00 -
[7] - Quote
Dia'Sarbator wrote:It has the same range as the convetor (sp?) they have identical bonuses.... yet the Catalyst can reach 750 dps and the convetor which has 7 turrets and 1 launcher reaches only 450. A Catalyst with that sort of DPS is a one trick pony, it's absolutely useless for anything other than making pretty explosions out of other peoples ships. It requires a mostly T2 specialised fit, implants and maxxed out skills, and it has to sacrifice any semblance of a tank and mobility to achieve it.
I presume the convetor is actually the Cormorant?
Quote:So Range is really boiling down to your choice of gun / ammo...
The real problem i see with the Catalyst is the fact that it has 3 lows and 8 turret hard points... Loose 1 turret hard point like the rest of all the t1 destroyers and the catalyst still is the highest dps destroyer but is more inline with the rest of the destroyers... You need to look again, there are 2 T1 destroyers with 8 turret slots.
The Coercer shares the same slot layout as the Catalyst, and like the Catalyst can fit 8 turrets. The Thrasher shares the same slot layout as the Cormorant, and like the Cormorant can fit 7 turrets and a missile launcher.
The difference between a carebear and a bear is that one expects the world to revolve around them, the other accepts the world for what it is and works around it.
Nil mortifi sine lucre. |
Paranoid Loyd
1908
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Posted - 2014.09.18 00:03:00 -
[8] - Quote
Paper DPS =/= Applied DPS
Go fly the ships and you will understand the difference.
"PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Lugia3
Intentionally Dense Easily Excited
1281
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Posted - 2014.09.18 00:43:00 -
[9] - Quote
I don't fear cats at all when out flying. They can only sit on your face doing damage, they have no tank, no speed, and no range. Talwar is a much scarier destroyer. It can do a sizable chunk of dps at long range and is hard to catch. "CCP Dolan is full of ****." - CCP Bettik
Remove Sov! |
Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
205
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Posted - 2014.09.18 00:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Paper DPS =/= Applied DPS
Go fly the ships and you will understand the difference.
This. You can have a 15000 dps Moros but it means squat if you cannot apply that to a target |
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Dia'Sarbator
Barren Asteroid Research Corp
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 04:12:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Paranoid Loyd wrote:Paper DPS =/= Applied DPS
Go fly the ships and you will understand the difference.
This. You can have a 15000 dps Moros but it means squat if you cannot apply that to a target
I am by no means apposed to giving it more tank or more options but the DPS factor needs to be brought in line with the other Dessies ... The problem is that it can reach such levels of dps... I mean honestly the people that don't want it nerfed are people that use it for ganking ... Instead of this very niche aspect of the game i propose fixing the ship to bring it in line with the others |
Iyokus Patrouette
No Vacancies
176
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Posted - 2014.09.18 04:43:00 -
[12] - Quote
Dia'Sarbator wrote: I mean honestly the people that don't want it nerfed are people that use it for ganking ... Instead of this very niche aspect of the game i propose fixing the ship to bring it in line with the others
I mean honestly the people that want it nerfed are people that got ganked by one. that statement works both ways
---- Advocate for the initiation of purple coloured wormholes---- |
Domino Vyse
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
13
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Posted - 2014.09.18 05:27:00 -
[13] - Quote
If you have a web, you can kill a cata. |
Dia'Sarbator
Barren Asteroid Research Corp
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 06:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
Iyokus Patrouette wrote:Dia'Sarbator wrote: I mean honestly the people that don't want it nerfed are people that use it for ganking ... Instead of this very niche aspect of the game i propose fixing the ship to bring it in line with the others I mean honestly the people that want it nerfed are people that got ganked by one. that statement works both ways
I fly skiffs ... which are pretty hard to gank .... especially since i don't afk mine =) but the main point is that the Cata really is out of line when compared to the other ships of the class... 10 % more dmg would be completely understandable but nearly double the dps of the lowest performer of the destroyers means something is broken. |
Battle BV Master
Executor BV Sovereign Infinity
50
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Posted - 2014.09.18 06:32:00 -
[15] - Quote
A Talos can do 1400 DPS while some BCs struggle to do 700. So no its a normal difference in the world of Eve.
Also am probably one of very few here that does not take ganking into account. Never been ganked, never ganked.
I just actually fly the things, kinda weird huh? |
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
311
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Posted - 2014.09.18 07:31:00 -
[16] - Quote
Dia'Sarbator wrote:I was playing around with this on EFT .... The catalyst destroyer is 300 dps higher than any of the other destroyers in eve... I don't know how you've managed so much disparity, the fits I have put the Coercer within 85% of the Catalyst, with double the range and the ability to fit actual tackle. If it didn't have to use rig slots for fitting it would be closer but they're pretty even by the time you get out to max scram range. |
Luwc
Brodozers Inc.
227
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Posted - 2014.09.18 07:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
nah its fine. stay out of scram range and you good. also a dragoon can neut it before getting vollied to space dust. http://hugelolcdn.com/i/267520.gif |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1632
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Posted - 2014.09.18 09:55:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cetaphil Thrace wrote:I agree with Amonios, it has no range compared to the others.
Yet this is a situation of extreme min maxing. It sacrifices one value to have utter massive advantage in other.
That is not healthy on this level, specially when the DPS is the factor boosted. It makes the ship too dislodged of the intended role of the class.
If ccp deemed the past minmatar speed advantage of 20% too much to have for the trade off of capacitor, ehp, and weapon range. THen no way in hell almost 100% damage advantage can be accepted. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1632
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Posted - 2014.09.18 09:57:00 -
[19] - Quote
Battle BV Master wrote:A Talos can do 1400 DPS while some BCs struggle to do 700. So no its a normal difference in the world of Eve.
Also am probably one of very few here that does not take ganking into account. Never been ganked, never ganked.
I just actually fly the things, kinda weird huh?
Most people with smart brains and that are not biased can percieve that we are in the balance cycle of eve where Gallente are GROSSLY overpowered. Much more overpowered than ever minmatar or ammar have been. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Danny John-Peter
Snuff Box
512
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Posted - 2014.09.18 10:05:00 -
[20] - Quote
Gal do have a good lot at the moment.
Minmatar are currently the worst race.
******* hell tackle about doing a 180. |
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Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
311
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:39:00 -
[21] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:If ccp deemed the past minmatar speed advantage of 20% too much to have for the trade off of capacitor, ehp, and weapon range. THen no way in hell almost 100% damage advantage can be accepted. Comparing apples with apples, the Talos is an ABC (which should have been BS with a secondary ewar bonus IMHO) and therefore will always significantly outdamage the CBCs, the Naga (as I recall) can achieve very similar numbers and is capable of engaging at significantly greater range. I don't believe the Oracle is excessively far behind either.
100% damage advantage is hyperbole and ignores the real performance of the ship in space - that is not to say that the Talos doesn't perform well (although I prefer my Brutix). Nonetheless, I don't see many Cat's outside highsec which are fitted in that manner, they get kited and killed too quickly because they have no ability to control the fight, most I've seen have actually been fit with rails (or, if not, are shooting blasters at 30km to ***** on killmails)...
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Nolak Ataru
Incursion Osprey Replacement Fund LLC
208
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:47:00 -
[22] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Cetaphil Thrace wrote:I agree with Amonios, it has no range compared to the others. Yet this is a situation of extreme min maxing. It sacrifices one value to have utter massive advantage in other. That is not healthy on this level, specially when the DPS is the factor boosted. It makes the ship too dislodged of the intended role of the class. If ccp deemed the past minmatar speed advantage of 20% too much to have for the trade off of capacitor, ehp, and weapon range. THen no way in hell almost 100% damage advantage can be accepted.
Speaking of min/maxing, the Tornado can punch out a 14k alpha. Shall we nerf it too? |
Solette Cheli
University of Caille Gallente Federation
18
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:37:00 -
[23] - Quote
Battle BV Master wrote:A Talos can do 1400 DPS while some BCs struggle to do 700. So no its a normal difference in the world of Eve.
Also am probably one of very few here that does not take ganking into account. Never been ganked, never ganked.
I just actually fly the things, kinda weird huh? It's an attack BC though, comparing it to battleships would make more sense. Catalyst trades high DPS for low tank and low range, simple as that, like energy weapons can either use close range, high damage or long range, low damage. Attack Battlecruiser are another good example which not exactly same situation, the hull->damage is odd like the catalyst, but compared to ships that normally run that much damage, it has a miniscule tank. |
Jon Joringer
Zero-K
141
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:46:00 -
[24] - Quote
You know, this absurd potential dps issue isn't limited to the Catalyst. Many Gallente ships can reach ridiculous dps compared to the rest of their class. People who think it isn't an issue are a fan of the supposed 'downfall' being that you have to get close to apply all of said dps (which really isn't that big an issue anymore since Gallente is the second fastest race with the best tracking turret system). Other people see this rather large disparity between Gallente and everyone else and realize something should be changed. I know Gallente are FotM right now, but hopefully they'll fall out of the golden light before too long (and hopefully with nerfs, not buffs to everything else). |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards
682
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Posted - 2014.09.18 18:00:00 -
[25] - Quote
Posting in a stealth nerf highsec ganking thread.
Seriously if you did any PvP you'd quickly realize that the Cata is very balanced and I'd go so far as to say it's not even as popular as the other destroyers, I do lots of FW PvP and I find that the Thrasher, Coercer and Algos are the more popular destroyers, Catalysts are far less common. Also you can get almost 600dps in an Algos with a proper PvP fit that won't die instantly and also can't be kept at range as easily as a Catalyst because of drones. |
SGT FUNYOUN
Arachnea Phoenix Battalion
86
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Posted - 2014.09.18 23:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Cetaphil Thrace wrote:I agree with Amonios, it has no range compared to the others. Yet this is a situation of extreme min maxing. It sacrifices one value to have utter massive advantage in other. That is not healthy on this level, specially when the DPS is the factor boosted. It makes the ship too dislodged of the intended role of the class. If ccp deemed the past minmatar speed advantage of 20% too much to have for the trade off of capacitor, ehp, and weapon range. THen no way in hell almost 100% damage advantage can be accepted.
So... ccp boosted Gallente becausd they sucked, now you ***** because they are supposedly too powerful...
Take your care bear and sham off you lout. |
Domino Vyse
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
14
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Posted - 2014.09.19 14:04:00 -
[27] - Quote
******* bears.
Stick to mining, and we'll stick to PVP. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1641
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Posted - 2014.09.19 14:42:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nolak Ataru wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Cetaphil Thrace wrote:I agree with Amonios, it has no range compared to the others. Yet this is a situation of extreme min maxing. It sacrifices one value to have utter massive advantage in other. That is not healthy on this level, specially when the DPS is the factor boosted. It makes the ship too dislodged of the intended role of the class. If ccp deemed the past minmatar speed advantage of 20% too much to have for the trade off of capacitor, ehp, and weapon range. THen no way in hell almost 100% damage advantage can be accepted. Speaking of min/maxing, the Tornado can punch out a 14k alpha. Shall we nerf it too?
Alpha strike is already an advantage PRE nerfed by having the lowest DPS of any weapon system. THat means an large advantage on a SECONDARY importance attribute .. paid with a nerf to a priamry importance attribute.
On the catalysis is the contrary. A buff on the primary importance attribute, paid with a nerf to a secondary attribute (sepcially in the roles the destroyers are used).
My main point is. DPS , SPEED and a few other attributes ARE more important then others, when a ship have a massive advantage in one of the more improtant attributes it needs MORE disadvantage on the others.
"If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1641
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Posted - 2014.09.19 14:44:00 -
[29] - Quote
SGT FUNYOUN wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Cetaphil Thrace wrote:I agree with Amonios, it has no range compared to the others. Yet this is a situation of extreme min maxing. It sacrifices one value to have utter massive advantage in other. That is not healthy on this level, specially when the DPS is the factor boosted. It makes the ship too dislodged of the intended role of the class. If ccp deemed the past minmatar speed advantage of 20% too much to have for the trade off of capacitor, ehp, and weapon range. THen no way in hell almost 100% damage advantage can be accepted. So... ccp boosted Gallente becausd they sucked, now you ***** because they are supposedly too powerful... Take your care bear and sham off you lout.
Care bear? Care bear? Your ignorance amazes me... I do not do ANY non destructive activity in eve for the likes of 5 years.
And YES gallente ARE overpowered. CCP has this lousy tendency of OVERBUFFING the worst race when they finnaly buff it, just restarting the cycle of people asking for buffs for the other races. CCP could not nerf moderately minmatar and buff moderately gallente.. they HAD to over do on both things at same time.... "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
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ISD Dorrim Barstorlode
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
3377
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Posted - 2014.09.19 19:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
removed an off topic post. ISD Dorrim Barstorlode Captain Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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