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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman Southern Federation
282
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Posted - 2014.09.18 10:29:00 -
[151] - Quote
RoCkEt X wrote:RIP bumping stuff off the edge of a forcefield... ever again.
Which is good, right? Cause it's an exploit, right? |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2006
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Posted - 2014.09.18 10:30:00 -
[152] - Quote
Kasimir Wulf wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:You missed the "You cannot use Titan Bridges within 25km of POS shields...let alone inside them" part... if only that was the case then everything in eve would be great again.. With one stroke of a keyboard... With one...just one line of code... The Blue Doughnut is instantly killed... Renters will turn into rebels... The vast empty space would be taken by smaller...but dedicated groups!
But the tears...the tears would flow like rivers! Flooding everything in its path! Nothing, absolutely nothing would compare to its destructive power! Wiping out thousands of settlements in an instant!
.....and it...............it would be beautiful!
..........excuse me, I got something in my eye. EVE needs more Pssshhhh |
BigSako
Burning Napalm Northern Coalition.
108
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Posted - 2014.09.18 10:33:00 -
[153] - Quote
LOL inb4 stainwaggon re-subs all their titan toons just to find out that they have no more POSes to bridge from. |
Aijle Mijleroff
Infernal Laboratory Infernal Octopus
43
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Posted - 2014.09.18 10:34:00 -
[154] - Quote
and what about covert cyno? 25km too? this very bad because covert operations very sensitive, Fozzie, you think about this? |
Vigilanta
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
40
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Posted - 2014.09.18 10:41:00 -
[155] - Quote
JIeoH Mocc wrote:RoCkEt X wrote:RIP bumping stuff off the edge of a forcefield... ever again.
Which is good, right? Cause it's an exploit, right?
Hint, ther was stuff legitimatly outside of the forcefield that you used to be able to bump away by jumping in caps, or block from getting int he forcefield by jumping in caps, now a cap/super/titan within 25k of the forcefield, but not inside can not be somewhat predictably bumped by a gank cap fleet jump in. Instead of a mechanic that increases legitimate cap kills we are creating a mechanic that actually makes cap kills a bit harder, not to mention that coupled with a mobile cyno inhibitor dreads will be awefull hard to drop on that are on a forcefield edge, let alone carriers repping it.
poorly thought out change, to fix 1 problem you have created 15 more, let alone unintended consequences, not to mention you are rush deploying this change not leaving much time for community input and tweaking.
Two easier thoughts come to mind- While not optimal, make the titans sphere smaller, makes it harder to jump in on shield edge with a blob and successfully bump, not to mention it would force bridging titans to inch out of the forcefield a bit more. bumping them would be a bit harder but none more so than say a supercarrier, and easier than than that still. this at least has fewer unintended consequences. and/or second, have the bridge increase the titans mass like happens with a sieged dread, they become much more difficult to bump with a conventional ship then - though this would introduce some other unintended consequences, though fewer than your current proposed change.
TBH, the issue i have with this change in particular, was instead of asking the community and saying hey we have the issue, we cant easily code in the optimal fix for the problem, but here are some ideas, or do you have ideas on how to fix said problem, you just said oh here were making this really hamfisted change, discuss. This just reminds me of the original frieghtor rigging thread debacle. There were much better ways to go about this.
Just my thoughts, dont expect anyone to agree. |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
189
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Posted - 2014.09.18 10:45:00 -
[156] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:I'm curious if this is actually a good idea. The giant cyno exclusion zone has a lot of seriously strange effects, like a titan bumped out of a pos being absolutely boned because it can't cyno in help.
Have you considered allowing any cyno to be lit within that zone, but you still land outside it (a mechanic you clearly already have since you implemented it as a fallback) and what's the downside of just doing that instead of this exclusion zone?
edit: basically I'm wondering if there's additional intended effects I'm not seeing, it's hard to tell what was intended and what was not with this change (besides ending pos bowling).
Learn to read. It said it would spawn you outside the range. So you can cyno on top of your poor Titan, but you may just land 25km from it --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::------- |
Arkon Olacar
Bearded BattleBears Brave Collective
385
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Posted - 2014.09.18 11:19:00 -
[157] - Quote
This is not the change to 'fix' the titan bowling 'exploit'. Back to the drawing board please Fozzie, you've created far more problems than you've sold. Warping to zero |
Anthar Thebess
696
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Posted - 2014.09.18 11:22:00 -
[158] - Quote
Eve will be better after this change than before.
DD from titan will hit target even if you jump those 25km more. Webs from recon will still web capital sitting near pos shields. You want to catch capital fleet near pos - drop 1 carrier carrying hictor , or just bridge some dictors.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
Eleanor Wish
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
37
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:02:00 -
[159] - Quote
Good change, but admit it Fozzie, you're primary reason for doing this was to troll the bookmark managers rather than fix bumping....you evil genius you |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
796
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:17:00 -
[160] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:I'm curious if this is actually a good idea. The giant cyno exclusion zone has a lot of seriously strange effects, like a titan bumped out of a pos being absolutely boned because it can't cyno in help.
Have you considered allowing any cyno to be lit within that zone, but you still land outside it (a mechanic you clearly already have since you implemented it as a fallback) and what's the downside of just doing that instead of this exclusion zone?
edit: basically I'm wondering if there's additional intended effects I'm not seeing, it's hard to tell what was intended and what was not with this change (besides ending pos bowling). Learn to read. It said it would spawn you outside the range. So you can cyno on top of your poor Titan, but you may just land 25km from it i suggest next time you attempt to seem smart you actually do the reading and don't ever try to correct me again you idiot:
CCP Fozzie wrote:After this change, cynos will not be lightable within 25km of the forcefield edge. If for any reason a cyno is active within 25km of a forcefield (if the cyno was lit before the password was entered for instance) then any ships jumping to that cyno will appear within 5km of a point that is a minimum of 25km from the forcefield (instead of appearing around the cyno).
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Kyria Stenory
ICE is Coming to EVE Goonswarm Federation
6
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:18:00 -
[161] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:I'm curious if this is actually a good idea. The giant cyno exclusion zone has a lot of seriously strange effects, like a titan bumped out of a pos being absolutely boned because it can't cyno in help.
Have you considered allowing any cyno to be lit within that zone, but you still land outside it (a mechanic you clearly already have since you implemented it as a fallback) and what's the downside of just doing that instead of this exclusion zone?
edit: basically I'm wondering if there's additional intended effects I'm not seeing, it's hard to tell what was intended and what was not with this change (besides ending pos bowling).
+1 |
Worrff
Viziam Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:19:00 -
[162] - Quote
Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.
Oh wait......... |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
796
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:25:00 -
[163] - Quote
Worrff wrote:Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.
Oh wait......... You mean while he would be asleep? |
Worrff
Viziam Amarr Empire
14
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:33:00 -
[164] - Quote
Retar Aveymone wrote:Worrff wrote:Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.
Oh wait......... You mean while he would be asleep?
He is sleeping at 1.30 PM ? i want a job like that. |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
11280
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:42:00 -
[165] - Quote
Worrff wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Worrff wrote:Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.
Oh wait......... You mean while he would be asleep? He is sleeping at 1.30 PM ? i want a job like that.
It's only 12:42 PM. Learn 2 clock. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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CCP Fozzie
C C P C C P Alliance
11280
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:43:00 -
[166] - Quote
I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. Game Designer | Team Five-0 https://twitter.com/CCP_Fozzie http://www.twitch.tv/ccp_fozzie/ |
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Belligerent Undesirable
1
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:49:00 -
[167] - Quote
Wow satisfactory
That sure does mean a lot
Yep |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2007
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Posted - 2014.09.18 12:49:00 -
[168] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. Now, do the same for Titan Bridging...
You know you want too...
It'll instantly kill the Blue Doughnut!
EVE needs more Pssshhhh |
Anthar Thebess
697
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:05:00 -
[169] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. Now, do the same for Titan Bridging... You know you want too... It'll instantly kill the Blue Doughnut!
Don't forget about capital jump range. Block their ability to jump between regions, and force them to use XL sized regional gates. Every one wins! Even blocking ability to bridge between regions could be good. Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
BadAssMcKill
ElitistOps
878
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:06:00 -
[170] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Worrff wrote:Retar Aveymone wrote:Worrff wrote:Nice to see the prompt responses from Fozzie addressing the points raised here.
Oh wait......... You mean while he would be asleep? He is sleeping at 1.30 PM ? i want a job like that. It's only 12:42 PM. Learn 2 clock.
I hear being snarky to your customers is all the rage these days
. |
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Jassmin Joy
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
275
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:10:00 -
[171] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties.
Translation:
We spoke about some stuff, spoke about this stuff too, liked what we spoke about. |
Vol Arm'OOO
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
292
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:13:00 -
[172] - Quote
With the death of the new cyno bumping mechanics, can we now at least make it so that you cannot bridge from the safety of a pos? Bridging is extremely powerful and largely risk free if done from the safety of a pos with the exception of spias and awoking which the pos doesnt protect against anyways. If folk want to bridge, they should have to at least put the bridging ship at some risk - after all eve's mantra is risk v. reward. I don't play, I just fourm warrior. |
Azami Nevinyrall
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
2007
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:15:00 -
[173] - Quote
Anthar Thebess wrote:Azami Nevinyrall wrote:CCP Fozzie wrote:I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. Now, do the same for Titan Bridging... You know you want too... It'll instantly kill the Blue Doughnut! Don't forget about capital jump range. Block their ability to jump between regions, and force them to use XL sized regional gates. Every one wins! Even blocking ability to bridge between regions could be good. Actually, ranges are fine!
Move the Titans outside POSs for bridging!
I'm more then willing to bet every Nullsec CSM will foam at the mouth at the thought of it! EVE needs more Pssshhhh |
vikari
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Nulli Secunda
81
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:23:00 -
[174] - Quote
Fozzie, a few issues this causes that should be considered.
Impact to BMs - minor as it might be in the grand scheme of things, we really don't want to remake a hundred plus BMs if we can help it.
POS attacking with Dreads - the use of short range guns just became less viable, unless you want to slowboat the distance required to get into or at least close to optimal.
Offensive risk management of subcaps - If you are in a subcap fleet it just became safe to attack a POS while hugging the shields, current mechanics let us drop a cyno on a hostile fleet and immediately bubble them, this change would grealy reduce our ability to get bubbles on a fleet before they can at least partially run away.
Risk/Benefit of cyno beacons - you're greatly changing this ratio. This might be a good idea, but could lead to them being less likely to be used in favor of simply station cyno characters, and that would result in actually less conflict over all, as the risk would be lower then it is even now with cyno beacons.
I understand the problem, but isn't this fix impacting a lot of things so solve one issue? It seems the goal here should be to solve the problem with as minimal impact to other parts of game play as possible. |
Anthar Thebess
697
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:25:00 -
[175] - Quote
No ranges are not fine. From my perspective eve universe should be BIG. When time need to move from one edge of the universe to another is counted in dozen of minutes not dozen of hours (or more) then something is wrong.
Support Needed : Jump Fuel Consumption Support Needed : Faction Crystal Changes |
shimiku
Black VooDoo Asassins The Kadeshi
21
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:25:00 -
[176] - Quote
now that we are at it why don't we just add this to station also and kill logistic |
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman Southern Federation
282
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:26:00 -
[177] - Quote
Azami Nevinyrall wrote:
I'm more then willing to bet every Nullsec CSM will foam at the mouth at the thought of it!
That's because you use your head for talking out of it, instead of thinking with it. Consider, who will suffer the most from such a thing - a power house that can field a couple of dozens of titans, tens of supercaps and hundreds of caps at will, or some low-sec pirate cove with one-two titans used for bridging? Consider also who'll be the first to reap the "rewards" of such mechanics, the blue doughnut you keep ranting about, or the ones not included in it? |
Retar Aveymone
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
797
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:35:00 -
[178] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:I've been in meetings with the CSM all morning, and amongst all the topics we did some further discussion around this change taking the public feedback into account. The conclusion of the discussion was satisfactory for all parties. YOU TEASE |
Veng3ance
Origin. Black Legion.
38
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:36:00 -
[179] - Quote
This is a terribly lazy fix.
The problem is bumping mechanics, not the range of cynos compared to a force field.
You are not even fixing the problem you are slapping a band-aid on and leaving the problem to rot.
For one Dreadnaughts will have a hard time getting in optimal range.
Secondly, bumping will still happen. Meaning if you jump in near a pos and get an unlucky bump it could stop you from lighting a cyno. What if you are bait? What if you are repping a pos and need to bring in backup? Am I supposed to ping with my carrier now?
Solutions like this are why people are leaving the game.
Fix your core mechanics or don't waste our time. |
Rydra Wong
Dark-Rising Executive Outcomes
7
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Posted - 2014.09.18 13:44:00 -
[180] - Quote
Do not agree with this fix.
What about the mechanic of lighting a cyno between enemies and the shields? I've used this in the past to stop shield huggers with well placed cyno warpins.
how about the fact that you now can't cyno in and bubble a pos, meaning you just shield hug now with a lit exit cyno and no one can trap you or for sub caps just warp off. Not even in range of standard t2 warp disruptors for manual point.
This mechanic badly needs to be rethought out.
Fix the pos mechanics and the corp permissions which haven't been fixed in what 8 years now? This cyno thing is not a problem that needs fixing at the moment. |
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