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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1645
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Posted - 2014.09.22 10:10:00 -
[331] - Quote
Titus Cole Dooley wrote:CCP Fozzie i have a ? for you and everyone at CCP.
Why do you make a group of people that like a ship that is good sad by making it not as good? you are making happy people sad. why not make sad people happy? If a ship is not as good as another make it better. then the happy people stay happy and the sad people get happy. no one is sad then.
Just a Sub
They are just usign their time to find excuses to not fix the tempest... as ccp have been doing on last 8 years. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Zao Elongur
Porphyr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.09.22 12:08:00 -
[332] - Quote
my points are already made
i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls
i am out o7 |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
672
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Posted - 2014.09.22 12:12:00 -
[333] - Quote
Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote:The Crow gets the ranged DPS but is losing the ability to be fitted for <2 second align, meaning it would be at least possible to catch it on a gate.
The issue with the Malediction was that it had the lows to fit for speed, with a range bonus to tackle, and a decent ranged weapon. The only thing the Malediction is really losing is the ability to do appreciable damage out past 20km. And given that it is a ship that can be fit for speed and bonused for tackle, no one should really care if it does any damage at all. It is still an very fast tackle frigate.
yeah maybe your right i dunno, i just really hate this nerfing ships into oblivion to counteract their uncatchability. imo no ship should be uncatchable in the first place but i guess with 1hz server ticks and bubble immunity on a frigate you're gonna run into those problems
i honestly wish they would just revert the bubble immunity. it makes interceptors way too common because they are just so much better than the alternatives no matter what for that reason and it also makes travelling in general in null way too easy but thats never gonna happen so c'est la vie https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1646
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Posted - 2014.09.22 14:23:00 -
[334] - Quote
Zao Elongur wrote:my points are already made
i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls
i am out o7
And your points are wrong and should be completely ignored. Anyone that thinks double tackle has no place, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Mizhir
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
69019
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Posted - 2014.09.22 14:44:00 -
[335] - Quote
Zao Elongur wrote:my points are already made
i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls
i am out o7
You are the troll here when you don't have the actual fits to back you up when you call other fits ****. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
Zao Elongur
Porphyr Empire
0
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Posted - 2014.09.22 16:26:00 -
[336] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:because the GOOD targets like battleships with 2 bil in loot have a few WCS.
trolling
Mizhir wrote:And how will you prevent anything from using MJD or MWD when you don't have a scram? A
for my fits, they are so standard i shouldnt even have to mention them, but if you really want me "knowledge" on fitting, you could easilly have googled and found the following.
http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Malediction http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Ares http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Stiletto
If you are that **** and dont know how you should fly a fleet inty, there are plenty of guides explaining what and why. http://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Interceptors_Guide
Now if you will excuse me, i do not want to help polute a thread made for purposefull discussion by feeding trolls.
bye
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Mizhir
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
69023
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Posted - 2014.09.22 16:52:00 -
[337] - Quote
Take a look at the stiletto and crow fits on that page and you will see that they are both dual tackle and a targeting range rig.
So if you are going to flame other's fits based on EVE uni's stuff rather than your own knowledge, go ahead. It will only make you look like a dumbass. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
Lady Rift
What Shall We Call It
83
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Posted - 2014.09.22 16:58:00 -
[338] - Quote
Mizhir wrote:Take a look at the stiletto and crow fits on that page and you will see that they are both dual tackle and a targeting range rig. So if you are going to flame other's fits based on EVE uni's stuff rather than your own knowledge, go ahead. It will only make you look like a dumbass.
and the 3 others he linked are single tackle. |
Mizhir
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
69029
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Posted - 2014.09.22 17:14:00 -
[339] - Quote
Lady Rift wrote:Mizhir wrote:Take a look at the stiletto and crow fits on that page and you will see that they are both dual tackle and a targeting range rig. So if you are going to flame other's fits based on EVE uni's stuff rather than your own knowledge, go ahead. It will only make you look like a dumbass. and the 3 others he linked are single tackle.
So just because EVE-Uni has 3 interceptor fits that are single tackle, we can safely assume that dual tackle is fail? As mentioned earlier, the dualtackle one allows you to pin down MJD and MWD ships which the singletackle one can't and it is a trade-off that is certainly worth it. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
Ikslagor
Future Corps Sleeper Social Club
0
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Posted - 2014.09.22 20:36:00 -
[340] - Quote
Capqu wrote: i don't know what more i can say but i don't understand how anyone can look at the rocket restriction on the malediction and say "yep, that makes sense from a balance perspective" while considering the existence of the crow. it's just stupid, arbitrary change that will remove the malediction from the game in 90% of circumstances
I couldn't agree more, especially when you consider that only one other frigate hull has such a restrictive bonus, the Vengeance. Even then it has at least one other bonus that allows it to consider fitting LMLs, but it's profile is such that one rarely (if ever) encounters it outside of it's brawling-rocket configuration. Your proposed changes consign the Malediction to a similar fate.
Previous narrative around prior balance passes has emphasized facilitating player choice in making trade offs between fitting options. This proposed change is a restriction rather than a choice, and a senseless restriction when the option to fly a crow still exists. |
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Phaade
Perimeter Defense Systems Templis CALSF
252
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:06:00 -
[341] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:Zao Elongur wrote:my points are already made
i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls
i am out o7 And your points are wrong and should be completely ignored. Anyone that thinks double tackle has no place, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.
Sorry I can't help myself......
Bahahahaha! GTFO with your crap fits. You are trying to honestly discuss balance when shooting ships with more than two WCS; you are either trolling or, well, slow.
Anyone who thinks that double tackle has any serious prevalence, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.
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May Arethusa
PillowBrigade Inc Heiian Conglomerate
20
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:19:00 -
[342] - Quote
The E-Uni fits listed above are cookie cutter builds designed to allow new players to get a grip on the role of fleet interceptor. Read the text above the fits in the Interceptor guide, the part where it explains offensive use of the scram is for more experienced pilots only The remaining two fits only have three mids, and are shield tanked (again, to simplify the fits and offer some standardisation) so they lack a scram.
I don't recall this being a thread about how to fly interceptors. It's a thread about changes that do the following:
MWD + MSE + Disruptor + Scram Crow, CN Scourge LM (Current) - 3.4k EHP - 4725m/s - 71.1 DPS @ 63.3km (40.6km lock range) - 2.68s align
MWD + MSE + Disruptor + Scram Crow, CN Scourge LM (Oceanus) - 3.5k EHP - 4111m/s - 59.7 DPS @ 63.3km (40.6km lock range) - 3.1s align
MWD + MSE + Sebo + TP Crow, CN Scourge LM (Current) - 3.56k EHP - 4370m/s - 95 DPS @ 63.3km (65km lock range) - 3.1s align
MWD + MSE + Sebo + TP Crow, CN Scourge LM (Oceanus)- 3.65k EHP - 3964m/s - 73 DPS @ 63.3km (65km lock range) - 3.4s align
Explain to me how this negates the imbalance of the Crow's ability to apply damage at long ranges. It doesn't. If anything, it remains the same, having gained the ability to switch damage types with no loss of DPS, and apply its damage more efficiently.
A standard fleet fit Crow on the other hand, which already had its engagement range capped at 40km, loses significant chunks of speed and agility, as well as a similar reduction in DPS (which was already a lot lower to begin with.) Couple this with the fact they're virtually impossible to fit, requiring a low slot and both rigs, something the updated Sniper Crow does not have to deal with.
Once again, the range bonus is the issue, not the damage. As far as rockets go, there simply isn't enough incentive to switch from light missiles. You gain roughly 23% DPS and lose 75% of your range. This comes with an increase in speed and agility that puts you just below the first fit in my list (4442m/s, 2.7s align).
Previously I advocated limiting the damage bonus to rockets only, I was close. Restrict the range bonus to rockets, leave the damage bonus as is. This leaves Sniper Crows unable to reach their previously insane ranges without using both rig slots (which would give them 54km range.) In turn, this prevents them from fitting a tank without further sacrificing speed, agility, or DPS as both low slots are now required to fit a MSE.
[Crow,Would you fly this? Because I wouldn't (Current damage bonus, no range bonus)] - 3.6k EHP - 3757m/s - 71.1 DPS @ 54.8km (65km lock range) - 3.7s align Micro Auxiliary Power Core II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron
Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Light Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I |
Mizhir
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
69090
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 07:32:00 -
[343] - Quote
Phaade wrote: Anyone who thinks that double tackle has any serious prevalence, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.
I don't think your personal issues with Gorski Car has any place in a balance discussion thread either. One Man Crew - Collective solo pvp |
Lena Lazair
Khanid Irregulars Khanid's Legion
143
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Posted - 2014.09.23 10:04:00 -
[344] - Quote
Ravcharas wrote:Another option would be to reinforce the fleet and combat role divide and remove the bubble immunity from the combat quartet only.
I actually really like this suggestion and it's too bad it got lost in the noise. Quote for visibility!
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Morukk Nuamzzar
EVE Corporation 987654321-POP The Marmite Collective
21
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Posted - 2014.09.23 11:32:00 -
[345] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey guys. A few more updates to this plan.
We've added some more powergrid to the Raptor... Nice but tracking with rails is still pretty bad. |
rsantos
TEC-NOLOGY Sorry We're In Your Space Eh
20
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Posted - 2014.09.23 13:10:00 -
[346] - Quote
I've hinted this before in this thread...
The malediction bonus changes to only apply to rockets, and the range nerf, are made specifialy to stop people from going down to dekelin in malediction fleets and kill rating ships.
Here is the a link for zkillboard of all the Heavy Assault Crusiers killed by Maledictions in Dekelin. https://zkillboard.com/ship/11186/group/358/region/10000035/
The isthar is probaly the most used ratting ship in dekelin.
The crow doesn't get the same treatment because rating ships in dekelin are tanked for kinetic damage and the isthar already has high base resists for kinetic.
I would like to know the reasoning behind these changes... saying "Crow and Malediction (which are a bit too good in their light missile configurations currently)" to justify this nerf doesn't cut it... these change are not a "bit". |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
676
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Posted - 2014.09.23 13:37:00 -
[347] - Quote
rsantos wrote:I've hinted this before in this thread... The malediction bonus changes to only apply to rockets, and the range nerf, are made specifialy to stop people from going down to dekelin in malediction fleets and kill rating ships. Here is the a link for zkillboard of all the Heavy Assault Crusiers killed by Maledictions in Dekelin. https://zkillboard.com/ship/11186/group/358/region/10000035/The isthar is probaly the most used ratting ship in dekelin. The crow doesn't get the same treatment because rating ships in dekelin are tanked for kinetic damage and the isthar already has high base resists for kinetic. I would like to know the reasoning behind these changes... saying "Crow and Malediction (which are a bit too good in their light missile configurations currently)" to justify this nerf doesn't cut it... these change are not a "bit".
WHAT THERE IS A SHIP ABLE TO STAND UP TO MY ISTHAR????????????????
INTO THE GROUND
-ccp fozzie
time to wait another 12 pages for 3 non-posts that completely fail to address any concerns https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
676
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 13:47:00 -
[348] - Quote
Phaade wrote: Anyone who thinks that double tackle has any serious prevalence, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.
jesus christ how did i miss this
https://zkillboard.com/character/331608676/topalltime/ oh ok now it makes sense, basically no experience flying interceptors, riding the crow wave
come back when you get good son
god damn my sides https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Krell Kroenen
The Devil's Shadow
186
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Posted - 2014.09.23 15:13:00 -
[349] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Hey everyone! One important module tweak that applies significantly to these ships (we'll be discussing it in more detail in an upcoming module balance blog) is that in Oceanus Light Missile Launchers will have their Rate of Fire decreased by ~6%.
While the back and forth is interesting. We have been told of the LML module tweaks, but there could be tweaks to other Modules that we are not aware of yet that can still impact how we fit and play with any number of ships mentioned or not mentioned in this thread.
It is less than a week till Oceanus, and we still haven't seen this "Module Balance Blog". Without it can one really give good feedback on any ship changes?
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Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.09.23 15:18:00 -
[350] - Quote
Phaade wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:Zao Elongur wrote:my points are already made
i am not here to explain tactics, nor to play with trolls
i am out o7 And your points are wrong and should be completely ignored. Anyone that thinks double tackle has no place, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread. Sorry I can't help myself...... Bahahahaha! GTFO with your crap fits. You are trying to honestly discuss balance when shooting ships with more than two WCS; you are either trolling or, well, slow. Anyone who thinks that double tackle has any serious prevalence, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.
Have you ever heard of defensive scram? Good garmur pilots use them in place of sebos/web (bad garmur fits). Intys get range bonus as well, so in theory could be used to prevent people landing scrams on intys. Also having a scram available to shutdown MJD fits is valid as well. |
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Metal Icarus
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
699
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Posted - 2014.09.23 19:12:00 -
[351] - Quote
Stitch Kaneland wrote:Phaade wrote:[quote=Kagura Nikon]
*snip*
Anyone who thinks that double tackle has any serious prevalence, surely has no place in a balance discussion thread.
Have you ever heard of defensive scram? Good garmur pilots use them in place of sebos/web (bad garmur fits). Intys get range bonus as well, so in theory could be used to prevent people landing scrams on intys. Also having a scram available to shutdown MJD fits is valid as well.
My fleet crow has a disruptor and a scrambler.
Shutting down MJDs and getting through those pesky warp core stabs on ships that are not fit for killing intys at close range.
Confirmed. |
Xorth Adimus
Blackwater USA Inc. Pandemic Legion
44
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Posted - 2014.09.23 21:21:00 -
[352] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote: One important module tweak that applies significantly to these ships (we'll be discussing it in more detail in an upcoming module balance blog) is that in Oceanus Light Missile Launchers will have their Rate of Fire decreased by ~6%.
This nerf is stupid. I don't see the point of it?:
Rate of fire isn't going to stop fleets of LML ships being able to produce high volley damage so you are still going to get fleets of these things, so who is this nerf for? Solo play nerf?
The only real issue with light missile launchers is the long range on a weapon, even at T1.
Plated interceptors (Malediction) is possibly the most stupid thing I have ever heard, please go fit a 200mm on one and try it for yourself I doubt any minor buff will make up for putting a plate on a ceptor.
Also you are aware how much damage a rocket malediction does right? Why the hell are you going to want to go within 10kms of any ship to use rockets in a Malediction?
I was really hoping for more from ceptors. I also wish that rockets where a useful weapon system
Please go figure out what role you want for each interceptor for each race and ensure it can actually fulfil it before you start claiming the interceptor is fixed/ updated.
'They are all fast frigate frigates, that can warp in bubbles and use racial weapons.' Sorry it just doesn't cut it. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
821
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Posted - 2014.09.23 21:35:00 -
[353] - Quote
rockets are ok. not everything can be grossly overpowered like light missiles. |
Capqu
Love Squad Pasta Syndicate
677
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Posted - 2014.09.23 21:59:00 -
[354] - Quote
TrouserDeagle wrote:rockets are ok. not everything can be grossly overpowered like light missiles.
rockets are garbage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yNpMiT5qpyI |
Liam Inkuras
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1288
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Posted - 2014.09.23 22:27:00 -
[355] - Quote
The smell of poo being slung beckoned me from the depths of Ships and Modules. To calm the angst of those crying about dual tackle being stupid: no, it is not stupid, unlike something that resembles you. I wear my goggles at night.
Any spelling/grammatical errors come complimentary with my typing on a phone |
scorchlikeshiswhiskey
interstellar initiative Incorporated
292
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Posted - 2014.09.23 22:51:00 -
[356] - Quote
Still waiting to see some rationale behind the resumed swinging of the nerfbat.... I did some quick looking so I could be mistaken, but it looks like the base RoF for LML's will be nearly twice that of any comparable long range, light weapon system. T1 75mm rails will fire at a base RoF of 3sec, Small T1 Beams seem to fire every 3.2sec, and even light arty will fire every 8.5sec compared to the 15.9 second base RoF of the Oceanus LML's. Without digging into a long, drawn out post, I have to wonder why the, already slow, RoF of LML's was deemed still too fast and in need of a 6% nerf to every ship using them. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2535
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Posted - 2014.09.23 23:08:00 -
[357] - Quote
scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I have to wonder why the, already slow, RoF of LML's was deemed still too fast and in need of a 6% nerf to every ship using them. Probably to make sure the light missile corax has less dps than a sniper corm. Corax currently has both ALPHA and dps advantage.
Current: Longbow Cormorant: 94km optimal, 154 dps (T2 fit) Longbow Corax: 94.6 km max range, 163 dps (meta fit which means inexpensive for the most part), sensor dampener to really mess up your long range opponent....
[Cormorant, Longbow] Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range Script
150mm Railgun II, Spike S 150mm Railgun II, Spike S 150mm Railgun II, Spike S 150mm Railgun II, Spike S 150mm Railgun II, Spike S 150mm Railgun II, Spike S 150mm Railgun II, Spike S [empty high slot]
Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Small Hybrid Locus Coordinator I Small Ancillary Current Router I
[Corax, Longbow] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II
Limited 1MN Microwarpdrive I Prototype Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script Prototype Sensor Booster, Targeting Range Script Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Targeting Range Dampening Script
Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile Limited 'Limos' Light Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Scourge Light Missile
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Rocket Fuel Cache Partition I |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
821
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 23:20:00 -
[358] - Quote
Capqu wrote:TrouserDeagle wrote:rockets are ok. not everything can be grossly overpowered like light missiles. rockets are garbage
mediocre imo |
Arla Sarain
79
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 09:12:00 -
[359] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:scorchlikeshiswhiskey wrote:I have to wonder why the, already slow, RoF of LML's was deemed still too fast and in need of a 6% nerf to every ship using them. Probably to make sure the light missile corax has less dps than a sniper corm. Corax currently has both ALPHA and dps advantage. Slight loss in DPS is worth it though, instant damage and the inability to outrun turret hits. What's the missile velocity on those corax missiles? 8km/s? Not really enough for the really pesky ships. |
Stitch Kaneland
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
41
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Posted - 2014.09.24 12:29:00 -
[360] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:(we'll be discussing it in more detail in an upcoming module balance blog)
We're about less than a week till release, whats going on with modules and further explanation on LML nerf? Seems kind of odd to wait a few days before release to give the player base information on what could potentially be a lot of module changes. |
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