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Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
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Posted - 2014.09.19 16:15:00 -
[1] - Quote
There are four of us, two of us have played a little before and kept training skills and the other two are brand new. We are wanting to do some pvp but we don't really know anything about anything and so I guess the point of this is to ask where to start.
My character has Minmatar frigates/destroyers/cruisers/bcs all to 4-5 and Caldari frigates/cruisers/bcs to 3-4, and about 4.5m total sp.
My friend has Gallente ships all the way to battleships and a ton of points in drones, with about 16m total sp.
We kind of know the basics of how webs and warp scramblers work and a our combat knowledge is basic as far as how ships of different sizes and with different types of weapons fight each other.
What ship makeup would you suggest for the four of us and what is a good way to get into some fun pvp without just getting destroyed by a veteran corp. |
Rumbaldi
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
1
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Posted - 2014.09.19 16:38:00 -
[2] - Quote
If you guys are new to the game with little experience then perhaps look for a good corp to join who will nuture you guys a bit.
I see thought you are already in a corp, will they not teach you the ropes? But for now as new people, with probably not much isk I would say destroyers or down initially, cheap as chips, some webs, so scrams and go out to null (or lowsec but not on gates or stations, unless agressed first.) and look for a fight |
Paranoid Loyd
1917
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Posted - 2014.09.19 16:46:00 -
[3] - Quote
4 Derptrons until you figure out what you are doing. Consider joining FW so you can use the plexes to trap people as well as make some isk while you are at it. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
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Posted - 2014.09.19 16:55:00 -
[4] - Quote
We actually have a little ISK, about 500m each due to referring each other and selling the PLEX, so losing a 10m cruiser isn't that big of a deal, but I can see the appeal of using super cheap frigates or destroyers.
If we are all flying frig/dest what types of ships could we kill? Would you just fit standard 125/150/200mm guns and be able to go after a variety of targets?
I have been learning to use the directional scanner to find targets and we could just look for lone ships. We started our own corporation and we just wanted to jump right into doing stuff because we were afraid maybe the two new guys wouldn't be interested in the game if they had to do slow things for a while first as at least one of them is impatient. |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
192
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Posted - 2014.09.19 16:57:00 -
[5] - Quote
Four folk should be enough to generate your own content IMO.
You can grind missions together to buy some disposable frigates and pest yourself a new roaming ground every week while your burn through your stock pile.
If you can ensure that everyone can afford the losses, you'll be in a position to start developing your own strategies based on how everyone is flying which will almost guanrantee your group making your own skill plans based on what your group dynamics require / want to try.
With four people, you can even get the initial hang of PVP just by joining/ starting your own corp and dueling it out without concord showing up. Biggest pain most folk face is the choice between 'lose ISK learning/ make enough ISK so losses are affordable".
Four people should be able to fit out plenty of disposable practice frigates with one or two level four missions being completed by the whole group and pooling the earnings and salvage.
Just start real cheap when your starting out and each frigate should only run a couple mil each on the high end. The focus during this development time is on mechanics, not min/max eft numbers, so you can safely ignore t2 gear when flying as a group at the start.
The derptron recommendation earlier is spot on for this type of thing. You can even have one of your buddies be the Bad guy in your duals, stick him in a belt and have him try to evade the other three.
Best of luck, and welcome to Eve :) |
Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
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Posted - 2014.09.19 17:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
L'ouris wrote:Four folk should be enough to generate your own content IMO.
You can grind missions together to buy some disposable frigates and pest yourself a new roaming ground every week while your burn through your stock pile.
If you can ensure that everyone can afford the losses, you'll be in a position to start developing your own strategies based on how everyone is flying which will almost guanrantee your group making your own skill plans based on what your group dynamics require / want to try.
With four people, you can even get the initial hang of PVP just by joining/ starting your own corp and dueling it out without concord showing up. Biggest pain most folk face is the choice between 'lose ISK learning/ make enough ISK so losses are affordable".
Four people should be able to fit out plenty of disposable practice frigates with one or two level four missions being completed by the whole group and pooling the earnings and salvage.
Just start real cheap when your starting out and each frigate should only run a couple mil each on the high end. The focus during this development time is on mechanics, not min/max eft numbers, so you can safely ignore t2 gear when flying as a group at the start.
The derptron recommendation earlier is spot on for this type of thing. You can even have one of your buddies be the Bad guy in your duals, stick him in a belt and have him try to evade the other three.
Best of luck, and welcome to Eve :)
Sweet, that sounds fun. |
Paranoid Loyd
1917
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Posted - 2014.09.19 17:19:00 -
[7] - Quote
As you develop your strategy, consider having one player train into a covert ops ship so that can they scout, probe and provide cloaked warpins to unsuspecting targets. "PvE in EVE is a trap to turn you into PvP content, don't confuse it for actual gameplay." Lipbite |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
192
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Posted - 2014.09.19 17:19:00 -
[8] - Quote
After your comfortable with basic mechanics, don't neglect the opportunity to barrel your t1 practice frigs into an actual enemy with some select high sec war decs.
Again, I would recommend starting cheap so no one cares that your frigs melted to some carebears station humping neutral remote repped battleship.
During this time you again focus on mechanics, I.e. Can you find active war targets, can you catch them and force fights.
Burning stuff you catch to the ground comes easy once you get comfortable with the hunt and trapping part. Who knows, you may even run into some other corp of new bros out doing the same thing and broaden your group, opening up bigger, more dangerous and more lucrative targets :) |
God's Apples
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
433
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Posted - 2014.09.19 21:36:00 -
[9] - Quote
Since you guys are all ready friends and (I assume) have the same playing time it really shouldn't be hard to coordinate an organized roam. 4 organized people, even at low sp, are enough to take on much greater numbers in FW areas. You should consider viable gang comps that fit your play styles. Do you guys like kiting at range and picking off isolated members of gangs or having a massive tank and face tanking everything in a brawl? I suggest starting with t1 frigs and maybe some dessies.
If you want to kite, run 3 long range dps + maulus. For dps ships I suggest LML kestrel or talwar. The maulus takes about 2 weeks to get frig 5 + relevant ewar skills to 4. Maulus counters other ewar and prevents other ships with projection from locking and hitting your guys. Very strong.
For brawling you could run 4 RR tristans. They tank a ton and do decent dps. 2 guys have scrams and 2 guys have webs. |
Bryn Rocksmasher
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
0
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Posted - 2014.09.20 06:27:00 -
[10] - Quote
Hi, welcome to Hell!
In all seriousness , if you would like to learn the more intricate details of PvP, i would suggest joining an already established Faction Warfare corp or a pirate corp in FW low. The reason i stress FW low is that you will be faced with numerous targets, some new like yourselves, and some elite that have been playing for years.
Another reason i suggest joining a FW corp is so that you get a feel of PvP while making some decent isk from plexing and killing war targets. With the guidance of a seasoned corp like Great harmon, Mjolnir Bloc, templis calsf, HECON, and any of the numerous corps in the caldari and our opposition, the gallente. We will teach you the ways of plex warfare, duo/gang/solo pvp and also participation in large fleet battles.
I guarantee that if you spend 2 months in any militia, you will come away with more experience than you would have received with 6 months in your own corp. It is not the fact that you would not be able to figure out the intricacies, its the fact that we already know them and it is quicker to learn from someone that knows than from your own costly mistakes.
TL:DR: join a FW corp, lurk in FW space(Blackrise/placid) etc. and for gods sakes dont think of low as some scary cesspit of doom. it isnt that scary. seriously.
drop me an ingame mail if you want some more advice/ reccomendations of good corps to join etc. |
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Bryn Rocksmasher
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
0
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Posted - 2014.09.20 06:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
Now that i am done with my shameless recruiting message, i will drop a few thinks i would do with your gang.
The gangs i roll with tend to range from kitchen sink to strict specialized fits. Gods Apples touched on this with the RR tristans and ewar compliment and i would like to go further into this.
I would recommend as one of your gang comps to be 2 facemelting dps, 1 dps w/utility and 1 ewar.
So for example you could have 2 blaster cormorants, 1 brick tanked punisher and 1 griffin.
The main strategy is to bait with the punisher. so you have your gang hold on the ingate while your punisher scans the system for targets. say he scans down a caracal in a medium. He goes and as he slides into the plex, your gang jumps in and warps to the plex. Even if the caracal sees the local spike and decides to try and bail, the punisher should have landed and be locking it up. Once everyone piles in, the 2 facemelters start doing their thing, the griffin jams the caracal. its GG for the caracal.
you can change and swap your comp around as you see fit, like gods apples suggested a maulus is pretty good for kiters, the griffin is OP with its jam strength, tracking disrupters from a crucifier would be pretty devastating for a gunboat. You can also swap the Ewar for logi as you see fit. you would be surprised how many people wont change targets from the one being repped to the repper itself :)
This is just a small facet of small gang. Enjoy your time, dont get too butt hurt over losing ships.
I hope this helps.
Fly dangerously o7 |
Utsukushi Shi
Pyre Falcon Defence and Security Imperial Outlaws.
55
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Posted - 2014.09.20 17:28:00 -
[12] - Quote
Just going to echo others suggestions that you join up with a FW corp. You can still group up together but will give the benefit of a bunch of experienced pilots and provide some structure/goals. Pretty much any FW corp will gladly take four duders interested in pvp. Fly dirty! Pyre Falcon is recruiting - apply today! Backstage Recruitment thread EVEO Forum Recruitment thread |
Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
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Posted - 2014.09.20 20:19:00 -
[13] - Quote
If we are not all from the same faction, will that be a problem for doing FW? I think we are 2 min and 2 gallente. |
Bryn Rocksmasher
The Great Harmon Institute Of Technology Enemy Spotted.
0
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Posted - 2014.09.20 21:25:00 -
[14] - Quote
Xero Bloodskye wrote:If we are not all from the same faction, will that be a problem for doing FW? I think we are 2 min and 2 gallente.
Your Race does not matter (even if you are filthy gallente and mattari scum!), your standing also does not matter too much because the standings are all averaged with all the players in the corp. so even if you are -5 to caldari you can still join up in any caldari fw corp.
We are always welcome to new blood being introduced to the war zone. the more the merrier! |
Faylee Freir
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
39
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Posted - 2014.09.21 02:11:00 -
[15] - Quote
Learn how to pvp while blowing up more than cheap frigates! Interested? Go from carebear to killer here! http://evedarklord.blogspot.com/2014/03/carebear-to-killer.html?m=1 where else can you pop a 500mil battleship in a solo t1 frigate? |
God's Apples
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
436
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Posted - 2014.09.21 03:20:00 -
[16] - Quote
As long as you're on the same side then you won't take standing hits. Since gallente and minnie are allied with each other you won't take any hits for pvping in fw space. Even gallente + amarr is fine if you're going after caldari or caldari + minnie vs gallente etc.
Don't become a high sec carebear killer. It's really not interesting pvp and just a boring concept in general. |
Faylee Freir
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
39
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Posted - 2014.09.21 03:35:00 -
[17] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:As long as you're on the same side then you won't take standing hits. Since gallente and minnie are allied with each other you won't take any hits for pvping in fw space. Even gallente + amarr is fine if you're going after caldari or caldari + minnie vs gallente etc.
Don't become a high sec carebear killer. It's really not interesting pvp and just a boring concept in general. Hisec carebear killing teaches you all the necessary skills for full time merc work. Yeah there's more to being a merc, but with mission flipping you are practicing probing, spiraling, micromanaging, and much more... All while flying cheap ships. Not to mention, the meta is delish!
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Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1336
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Posted - 2014.09.21 09:01:00 -
[18] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:As long as you're on the same side then you won't take standing hits. Since gallente and minnie are allied with each other you won't take any hits for pvping in fw space. Even gallente + amarr is fine if you're going after caldari or caldari + minnie vs gallente etc.
Don't become a high sec carebear killer. It's really not interesting pvp and just a boring concept in general. I have to agree with this. Nothing wrong with mission runner baiting but it is more of a novelty than anything. The fact that you have to find a target that doesn't actually know what they are doing tells you a lot. That isn't to say it is necessarily easy.
All good advice above. Join FW, use cheap ships to start with. Frigs and dessies plus a Maulus vs the world! Don't go for a Griffin. It will work but won't teach you situational awareness like the Maulus damps will. ECM is too on/off. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
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Posted - 2014.09.21 09:24:00 -
[19] - Quote
Could we join FW as our little noob corporation with just the four of us in it or would we not be able to do anything? |
Zappity
SUPREME MATHEMATICS A Band Apart.
1336
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Posted - 2014.09.21 09:41:00 -
[20] - Quote
Xero Bloodskye wrote:Could we join FW as our little noob corporation with just the four of us in it or would we not be able to do anything? You can earn LP from plexes and get lots of targets. Zappity's Adventures for a taste of lowsec. |
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God's Apples
The Tuskers The Tuskers Co.
436
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Posted - 2014.09.21 14:33:00 -
[21] - Quote
Faylee Freir wrote: Hisec carebear killing teaches you all the necessary skills for full time merc work. Yeah there's more to being a merc, but with mission flipping you are practicing probing, spiraling, micromanaging, and much more... All while flying cheap ships. Not to mention, the meta is delish!
What if I told you that there is pvp outside of highsec. "Merc work" is just shitlords ganking shitlords and then circle jerking about their overall unimpressive carebear kills it in jita local. If you actually learn how to play this game first by pvping in low and null solo or in small gang and decide that highsec might be for you, you can always go back. If you're a garbage carebear killer and decide low or null might for you, you'll just get dunked on because living in high sec has taught you no actual pvp skills. Honestly you can become a miner, industrialist, anom farmer in renter space, but for god's sake don't become a high sec "pvper." You'll just add to the cancer of this game. |
Alaric Faelen
Sabotage Incorporated Executive Outcomes
296
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Posted - 2014.09.21 14:33:00 -
[22] - Quote
Some of the best days I have had in New Eden was just myself and two other newbs crashing around low sec and WH looking to get a lock on anything we crossed paths with. We died horribly for the most part, but it was FUN. 3-4 people in even halfway decently fitted ships is a real threat, so your PvP options are wide open. You can just run about in your own small gang- essentially a pirate fleet. Or, join some larger organization together.
If you just stay as your small crew, then try it all. One guy can probably scan, have him find a WH for one fleet. The next time you fly, try staking out FW plexes. Next fleet set up a gate camp at a null entrance gate. Then load up some cats and go gank a miner. You can find PvP anywhere- don't need to narrow down your possibilities.
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Faylee Freir
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
39
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Posted - 2014.09.21 22:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:Faylee Freir wrote: Hisec carebear killing teaches you all the necessary skills for full time merc work. Yeah there's more to being a merc, but with mission flipping you are practicing probing, spiraling, micromanaging, and much more... All while flying cheap ships. Not to mention, the meta is delish!
What if I told you that there is pvp outside of highsec. "Merc work" is just shitlords ganking shitlords and then circle jerking about their overall unimpressive carebear kills it in jita local. If you actually learn how to play this game first by pvping in low and null solo or in small gang and decide that highsec might be for you, you can always go back. If you're a garbage carebear killer and decide low or null might for you, you'll just get dunked on because living in high sec has taught you no actual pvp skills. Honestly you can become a miner, industrialist, anom farmer in renter space, but for god's sake don't become a high sec "pvper." You'll just add to the cancer of this game. Sure, there's content everywhere to be had. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and just because you have your own preferences doesn't mean anything else is "bad" or "not fun". Since we're passing our own opinions as facts here, I might as well spew mine. Why PVP in lowsec when everything is either a trap, a blob, or a warp core stabbed plexer? Why PVP in nullsec where all you are is a F1 monkey and everyone safes up as soon as you show up in local? Mission flipping is more than a novelty! So far it is THE MOST cost effective way to learn how to PVP. Sure you don't get much practice sling-shotting or manually flying against skilled pilots, but we're talking about 4 friends that are new to the game.
I don't understand why everyone thinks you HAVE to fly against someone that knows what they are doing in order to learn something. I find it pretty effective to practice spiraling to keep your transversal high, against a low-risk target. You don't HAVE to lose your ship to say, "hey I should have done it this way". Not to mention it helps with multi-tasking and combat probing down targets. Yes, as you learn the basics it would make sense to move on to tougher opponents but saying that hi-sec pvpers are sub-par to anyone else is the game is ignorant.
In the end flying with friends is always fun, no matter what you're shooting or where you're shooting it at. |
Domino Vyse
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
15
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Posted - 2014.09.21 22:08:00 -
[24] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:Faylee Freir wrote: Hisec carebear killing teaches you all the necessary skills for full time merc work. Yeah there's more to being a merc, but with mission flipping you are practicing probing, spiraling, micromanaging, and much more... All while flying cheap ships. Not to mention, the meta is delish!
What if I told you that there is pvp outside of highsec. "Merc work" is just shitlords ganking shitlords and then circle jerking about their overall unimpressive carebear kills it in jita local. If you actually learn how to play this game first by pvping in low and null solo or in small gang and decide that highsec might be for you, you can always go back. If you're a garbage carebear killer and decide low or null might for you, you'll just get dunked on because living in high sec has taught you no actual pvp skills. Honestly you can become a miner, industrialist, anom farmer in renter space, but for god's sake don't become a high sec "pvper." You'll just add to the cancer of this game.
This.
Also, my advice would be to get into piracy. FW is too fluffy. Jump in to the deep end and learn Eve on hard mode. |
Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
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Posted - 2014.09.21 22:57:00 -
[25] - Quote
How would this setup work? http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/62801-Slasher-The-Little-Ship-That-Could.html
I tried the fitting but in the guide he says he gets 111 dps, though I only get 65 with faction ammo. Am I just missing a lot of skills?
Here's a screenshot of my gunnery skills http://i.imgur.com/7r6j1JA.png |
L'ouris
Have Naught Subsidiaries
192
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Posted - 2014.09.21 23:34:00 -
[26] - Quote
Yes your missing some skills, that's why the DPS is lower. Not to worry however. That's what your other three buddies are for. Four folk with spread ewar can do a lot while their individual DPS waits on skills.
most of the PVP skills you need to develop don't depend on your skill queue, so don't get hung up on it yet. Skill queue stuff comes like clockwork, it's what you develop in the meantime that can really get you an edge.
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Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1645
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Posted - 2014.09.22 11:59:00 -
[27] - Quote
Xero Bloodskye wrote:There are four of us, two of us have played a little before and kept training skills and the other two are brand new. We are wanting to do some pvp but we don't really know anything about anything and so I guess the point of this is to ask where to start.
My character has Minmatar frigates/destroyers/cruisers/bcs all to 4-5 and Caldari frigates/cruisers/bcs to 3-4, and about 4.5m total sp.
My friend has Gallente ships all the way to battleships and a ton of points in drones, with about 16m total sp.
We kind of know the basics of how webs and warp scramblers work and a our combat knowledge is basic as far as how ships of different sizes and with different types of weapons fight each other.
What ship makeup would you suggest for the four of us and what is a good way to get into some fun pvp without just getting destroyed by a veteran corp.
First.. congratulations. You guys are going to the CORRECT direction. PVP is much easier to delve into at this level than later.
Just for starters get t1 frigs and go low sec. You first need to elarn to work as a group before thinkign on winning. THEN when you guys learned that, got to t1 cruisers.
No you are NOT ready for anythign larger than that. Not so much because of SP, but because you need more base experience fighting before risking larger stuff. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -áthen you are -ásurely not using enough!" |
Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:28:00 -
[28] - Quote
Our experiences so far:
First night, we (two of us) tried flying out to the nearest 0.0 and seeing if we could find anything to shoot. We are based in Rens and we got to a 0.0 in about 10 jumps. We used directional scanners - 360 and flew around and found one small ship. We found it but it was in (we didnt know what it was at the time) a POS with defense turrets. My valiant friend went divebombing into the middle of it and got blow up. I left.
In a 0.1 I found a mining drone and located it with the scanner in the middle of like 10 asteroid belts and blew the crap out of it.
Then I went around some random 0.1-0.3 area and, at the entrance of one of them, found 7-8 wrecked player cruisers. My friend met up with me and we looted about 10 million ISK worth of modules.
The second night, we headed out to a 0.-3 that was kind of close but as soon as we go into the system a guy in a faction Eris killed both of us like immediately.
It was fun finding stuff from a battle but I can't help but feel like there's not going to ever be anyone in null sec that we could actually kill in our t1 frigates and modules with gimped skills. Is FW the only reasonable way to find other newer players like us to PVP?
Also, is Rens just a slow area? It doesn't seem like there is a lot going on over there. Where should we head for Min/Gallente FW action? I think we might take someone up on joining their corp. |
Baron' Soontir Fel
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
249
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Posted - 2014.09.23 20:38:00 -
[29] - Quote
Don't listen to the people who nay-say FW.
It has its drawbacks as its mainly focused on cruiser and below warfare. But for pilots who are looking for action, there are fights everywhere and all the time. |
Xero Bloodskye
Space NASA
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:41:00 -
[30] - Quote
Baron' Soontir Fel wrote:Don't listen to the people who nay-say FW.
It has its drawbacks as its mainly focused on cruiser and below warfare. But for pilots who are looking for action, there are fights everywhere and all the time.
Then I guess that's what we would want to do. Now we just need a corp/faction, which I'm not sure how to pick. Would there be any reason to pick the same race as we are? Are there any advantages or disadvantages for choosing each of the four?
We are in the US, playing on EST during the evenings/night. |
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