Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Targanoth
Soul Takers
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 15:08:00 -
[31] - Quote
The sandbox of eve is for players to build, explore and create without limits. From time to time players have been know to find and abuse exploits, This was not one of those times. Aglon was faced with a Titan showing a vulnerability and he had the skills required to capitalize on the situation. No exploits were used to gain entry into a force field. No cynoGÇÖs were used to knock the titan out. Please do the correct thing CCP, Unban Aglon. Someone has put years of hard work into the making of that character, Don't wipe it away like it was nothing.
|
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
614
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 15:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Confirming everything Targ said above.
Do the right thing here CCP. |
Lady Naween
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
661
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 17:13:00 -
[33] - Quote
and now a word from the other side of this debate.
*camera pans over to the empty seats across the table as a tumbleweed rolls by*
there you have it folks, not even your own elected representatives have stepped up to say anything about this. Something to remember come election day I am sure, unless there is a scandal involving a rubber duck, a bag of strange white powder and your favorite politician. We now take you live to Jita where another scammer has promised double ISK back.. over to our live commentator.. in JITA! |
Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
19
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 18:35:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lady Naween wrote:and now a word from the other side of this debate.
*camera pans over to the empty seats across the table as a tumbleweed rolls by*
there you have it folks, not even your own elected representatives have stepped up to say anything about this. Something to remember come election day I am sure, unless there is a scandal involving a rubber duck, a bag of strange white powder and your favorite politician. We now take you live to Jita where another scammer has promised double ISK back.. over to our live commentator.. in JITA!
trolol. Been about 4 days with no CSM or a CCP response. However I am not surprised from CSM. As a majority of the members just represent null sec. Kinda begs the question, what is the point? From this verdict how it stands now POS titans would not have any risk other than axowing or spies. Suppose it is a good time to resub a spy alt and get a proxy again. |
Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:01:00 -
[35] - Quote
Let's hope CCP do the right thing here. So let's try to get as much support for this thread as possible!
#FreeAlgon |
Anabaric
The Grumpy Bastards The Bastards.
80
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
This really needs a response from a GM with a definitive answer to the exploit situation. Community Manager www.Battleclinic.com @battleclinic Loadouts + Killboards + Forums Twitter @anabaric_eve www.the-bastards.net Recruitment: OPEN |
Kazruw Drol
Hoover Inc. Pandemic Legion
11
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:36:00 -
[37] - Quote
JIeoH Mocc wrote:Surya Kruul wrote:CCP has to revoke the ban or deliver an explanation for this other than 'has not entered force field password'.
To me it looks like in order to bump the titan, entering the force field of the pos was not necessary.
The exploit notification doesn't say anything about entering the force field, or anything of that sort. It says - "Bumping ships, that are located within password protected starbase force-fields, out of the force-field from outside without having the correct password or corporation/alliance permissions as configured in the tower settings, is considered an exploit. " It's UNCLEAR when exactly is a ship considered within the force-field and when it's considered outside it. Some think (and thought for years) that once a portion of the ship protrudes from the field - it's fair game to bump it outside. The exploit notification was clarified: "It is considered an exploit to bump ships that are located within starbase force-fields by any means that bypasses the requirement for a correct password or access permissions, as configured in the starbase tower settings, to achieve the bump. If a password or access permission would not normally be required to achieve the bump, the action is not covered by this notification."
The clarification doesn't leave much room for interpretation: if you bump a part that's sticking out of the force field, you obviously won't need any kind of access permission etc. to achieve the bump and your actions are not covered by the exploit notification. The GMs can still of course ban you for it, because the game is a sandbox - their sandbox. ;) I may or may not be impersonating one of my alts or vice versa. |
Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:53:00 -
[38] - Quote
Well said Kaz. While we may all be at the mercy of what mood CCP are in on any given day we do have a valid point here. The rules aren't clear AND players like Algon should not be made to take pictures and fraps of their actions preemptively to defend themselves from possible bans. CCP PR department- pay attention to this post and respond. It looks and feels very much like you are trying to sweep this under the rug. Unless you plan to ban entire alliances you should realize by now we are not going to leave this subject alone until we receive a logical response. Respectfully, Jazz. |
Tirelion
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
27
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 20:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
I would just like to point out that it is literally disgusting that this has gone on this long with no official GM/Dev/CSM response to this thread. Certainly none of our current CSM will be getting my vote at this point. |
Saltire
Empire Assault Corp Dead Terrorists
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 21:35:00 -
[40] - Quote
This has not been handled correctly at all, that rug at your HQ must be getting real bumpy.
This needs a clear CCP response, not the usual under the counter backdoor "kept quiet for security reasons" excuses.
I don't envy the CCP reps at Vegas when Aglon gets there.
Salt |
|
Drakan290
Soul Takers
8
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 21:44:00 -
[41] - Quote
I too find the lack of CSM interest bothersome, even a ''Hey, we see how this sucks''.
Aglon did what anyone else would do. Titan was vulnerable due to pilot error, and he took the opportunity presented. This heavy handed banning is ridiculous, and should be addressed ASAP.
|
Bob TSlob
Happy Endings. Happy Endings
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 22:14:00 -
[42] - Quote
The way I see it, we have 2 major problems. I would like to address them separately.
1- The rules regarding this bump are unclear. While CCP has announced that bumping ships inside a pos wiothout a password is bannable, this titan appears outside the pos. If a ship is considered inside a pos when it's model appears outside, then this needs to be clarified and the game mechanics need to be fixed. A perma ban for unenforced, unclear rules is absurd IMHO
2- The enforcement of this rule is very biased the way I see it. This pilot has been perma banned yet in other recent titan pos bumping activities I have not heard of a single punishment. In NCdot's recent kill that seems to meet the same exploit criterea I have not heard of a single pilot being banned. If the rules are to be forced fairly, shouldn't every pilot who exploits be punished the same? If our tornado jockey stays banned but the entire NCdot titan fleet that performed a similar exploit go unbanned, I will see this as BOB mk 1 era favoratism. |
Morrigan Malkavian
Malkavian Inc.
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 22:24:00 -
[43] - Quote
just curious is there a certain percentage of the ship that has to stick out of the shields to make it fair gain or can I just have it touch the shields for me to get crying right when it's get shot.
Also am I to understand that only npc ships can freely engage any target anywhere, or can I get the serpentis belt rats banned for harressment?
maybe something silly but it seems to me that if you wish to change a certain behavior it helps to explain what it is you wish to change, not just ban and make a guessing game out of the reason.
|
Amaya Rei
Soul Takers
2
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 22:38:00 -
[44] - Quote
Morrigan Malkavian wrote:just curious is there a certain percentage of the ship that has to stick out of the shields to make it fair gain or can I just have it touch the shields for me to get crying right when it's get shot.
Also am I to understand that only npc ships can freely engage any target anywhere, or can I get the serpentis belt rats banned for harressment?
maybe something silly but it seems to me that if you wish to change a certain behavior it helps to explain what it is you wish to change, not just ban and make a guessing game out of the reason.
That is what everyone is trying to convey to CCP, their "official" statement is:
"Bumping ships, that are located within password protected starbase force-fields, out of the force-field from outside without having the correct password or corporation/alliance permissions as configured in the tower settings, is considered an exploit."
1) Please define "within" 2) Do parts that hang out, that players CAN interact with as allowed by the game engine count as "within" 3) Is it "within" if its not lockable, and "outside" if it is lockable?
There is no clear definition that a player can use as a reference to know if he is playing in the "sandbox" the way CCP wants them to play.
So in this case, a titan hanging out of the POS shield, which can be interacted with (and doesn't need a password) because on the client side its exposed, and bumpable, somehow falls under this rule? And gets a player perma banned...
what a joke. |
Heavenseed
Penumbra Institute Ineluctable.
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 22:47:00 -
[45] - Quote
I agree with most of posters wrote above. The permanent ban is quite ridiculous and harsh, those reasons behind it is unclear. Also this whole affair is kinda ruining 'sand-box' nature of this game. How can we create content in this game, if some developers or gms ban the actions of a capsuleer with unclear reasons? |
Ariada Valentine
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 23:58:00 -
[46] - Quote
There really needs to be some major clarification on what is an exploit and what is allowed when it comes to bumping at POSs. The lack of consistency on these type of rulings is troubling. |
Centurion Utama
Exiled Kings The Fearless Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 02:31:00 -
[47] - Quote
I don't even know the pilot in question but I do have to agree with pretty much all the previous posters, the way the rules are being used arbitrarily to punish one pilot whereas another group used an obvious exploit yet none of their pilots were banned. I say revoke the permaban of Aglon and there should be a recognized and set decision on what consists of legitimate and illegitimate bumping of ships within the region of a POS. Otherwise arbitrary decisions like this may set a precedent that may lead to a mass exodus of all pilots who are not able to fly a titan because they see that they are treated as second class citizen compared to those who are able to. Those who are able to seem to be viewed as somehow special and granted special powers it seems compared to the rest of us. They are able to light a cyno right next to a post and jump dozens of their ships in knowing that the game will cause some of them to spawn inside the shields before being ping ponged out and thus bowling a ship that is fully inside the shields out and suffering absolutely no punitive punishments whereas a player without a titan used a legal tactic to get a ship to move in a way that he wanted and yet he is permabanned. Fix this CCP and make a clear statement to players and GMs as to what is considered or is not considered an exploit. |
Gfy Trextron
Soul Takers
12
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 02:43:00 -
[48] - Quote
5 days and no word publicly from CCP. Only the original ban and the denial of the first reply to the ban. No word from the CSM. The only info that we have in writing is that he was banned because the ship was not lockable. And not a single piece of published information that supports any exploit revolving around ships being lockable.
I understand that we are a small insignificant corp, but this is completely unreasonable in any sense of the term. Currently inside includes outside and banable offence only applies to small groups "when the logs show nothing". |
Fellsworn
Penumbra Institute Ineluctable.
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 04:02:00 -
[49] - Quote
Everything I've read so far regarding POS bumping does not seem to apply to this situation. Were the opportunity to present itself in this way again i think many people including myself even after hearing of this incident would take the same action.
I agree with most of the other posts here that we need some actual clear information how to play your game CCP without getting the proverbial ban-hammer smack to the nuts.
Its got to be bad for business to have conflicting rules that can be loosly interpreted by a GM with the authority to drop the banhammer. In this situation it seems to have been done without much thought, and that is troubling. Please explain.
|
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman Southern Federation
284
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 06:05:00 -
[50] - Quote
Kazruw Drol wrote:[ The GMs can still of course ban you for it, because the game is a sandbox - their sandbox. ;)
This.
So i suppose it's not the clarification we need, it's the clarification we deserve, meh. |
|
JIeoH Mocc
brotherhood of desman Southern Federation
284
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 10:24:00 -
[51] - Quote
Gfy Trextron wrote:5 days and no word publicly from CCP. Only the original ban and the denial of the first reply to the ban. No word from the CSM. The only info that we have in writing is that he was banned because the ship was not lockable. And not a single piece of published information that supports any exploit revolving around ships being lockable.
I understand that we are a small insignificant corp, but this is completely unreasonable in any sense of the term. Currently inside includes outside and banable offence only applies to small groups "when the logs show nothing".
Did you escalate your ticket to a Senior GM? Do it, if you haven't. |
Talon Draygo
Capsuleer Outfitters Bad Intention
49
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 10:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
CCP you should be ashamed of yourselves. You built this game based on a sandbox and encouraged its players to think outside the box and find unique ways to kill eachother yet everytime we do and someone cries about it, it is now an exploit and you give some half assed excuse as to why you are nerfing or banning something.
This pilot did what any of us would of done if the situation presented itself so you might as well ban all of us because its a stupid, half defined rule and goes against the spirit of the game itself.
Its time you guys remembered its the players that keeps this game going and money in your pockets so maybe you should show them a bit more care. |
Koz Katral
Sanctuary of Shadows Honorable Third Party
58
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 11:53:00 -
[53] - Quote
I would be interested to hear what the CSM has to say on this absurd and inconsistent permanent ban, considering none of them have seen fit to post on the issue so far. |
Hitman 001
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
6
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 14:13:00 -
[54] - Quote
Koz Katral wrote:I would be interested to hear what the CSM has to say on this absurd and inconsistent permanent ban, considering none of them have seen fit to post on the issue so far.
same |
corebloodbrothers
Volition Cult The Volition Cult
643
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 14:56:00 -
[55] - Quote
first off: GM support tickets are considered private. releasing them is bannable, look at BLINK.
personally i can agree that banning someone without a warning is hard for the people involved. Even the titan pilot bumped expressed the hope that the ban woudl be temporarily.
CCP is fixing in the next release bumping by cyno, and removing stuff from a pos withotu having the password, through which ever means. If u look at other incidents then there is a wide variation in interpretabel rules and actions. from banns, to reimbursting titans, to not doing stuff.
i posted it internally th brign it under attention, but CSM wont take a stand nor pick a side or order CCP nor a GM how to operate, especially not in single cases. we like to look at the mechanism itself and improve eve, so dont interpet my post as a, unbann him ffs.
personally i hope ofc the pilot can enjoy eve again,
goodluck all |
Chandaris
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
615
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 15:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
except this was not a case of bumping by cyno. this was a case of smashing a 100mn mwd tornado into a part of the ship fully exposed from the shield, and pointing it / cynoing in dreads well after fully out of the shield.
the tactic has been used many times before.
all tactics used during this operation will continue to work perfectly fine after the changes CCP are implementing in oceanus. |
Eldwinn
SomeWhat SophiSticateD Shadow Cartel
20
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 15:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
corebloodbrothers wrote: CCP is fixing in the next release bumping by cyno, and removing stuff from a pos withotu having the password, through which ever means. If u look at other incidents then there is a wide variation in interpretabel rules and actions. from banns, to reimbursting titans, to not doing stuff.
Sounds like you didn't really read the post. Algon was banned for bumping a titan outside of the POS shields. The titan was not lockable and he used a 100MN tornado to do it. The Oceanus fixes do nothing for this. This form of bumping will still exist.
The question was,
The player was notified that if the ship is not lockable then it is in the POS. Can someone please show me the rule, post, etc. that states this?
That may have not be worded extremely well, however it gets the point across. |
TrouserDeagle
Beyond Divinity Inc Shadow Cartel
821
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 15:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
gj csm |
Talon Draygo
Capsuleer Outfitters Bad Intention
49
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 16:52:00 -
[59] - Quote
Not to mention the whole if its not lockable its in the pos thing is bullshit. If its sticking out of the shields it should be fair game. |
Jazz Caden
Convicts and Savages Shadow Cartel
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 18:11:00 -
[60] - Quote
And so the laziness and incompetence continues... All I can say is keep posting and supporting the issue, hopefully if we make enough noise about this CCP will actually take a look at the case and do the right thing.
#FreeAlgon |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 7 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |