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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2124
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:25:00 -
[91] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Two step wrote:I think this is great, as long as actual ships are lost when things blow up, I am totally fine with it. All the whining about not being able to interfere with the fights is just nonsense. There are plenty of things in EVE that you cannot interfere with right now, like industry, trading and PI. Where is this magic new requirement that you must be able to screw up what people want to do on their own time coming from? I can mess with your industry by popping your ships or messing with the mineral market i can screw with your PI by blasting your POCO. i can alter your trading by undercutting you You can mess with the ships in the dojo by fighting in the dojo.
Undercutting someone on the market is playing within the arena of the market. You don't get the opportunity to blowup the entire market now do you? |
Varesk
Origin. Black Legion.
596
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:25:00 -
[92] - Quote
CCP Veritas wrote:
In the meantime I would very much like to invite people to give it a spin before they judge too deeply. There's a lot of jumping to conclusions going on in here.
You are making an instance. This inst jumping to conclusions. If you put two players in a system where no one can warp to them, that is an Instance, which you are making.
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Bytestorm
Hoplite Brigade Iron Oxide.
14
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:25:00 -
[93] - Quote
1.) How do you prevent Mindlinks to work in that deadspaces? It won't be fair if one side uses them. 4.) Why? This has a lot of potential to build an economy around it. |
Sierra Payne
Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole
6
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:25:00 -
[94] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Sierra Payne wrote:Randolph Sykes wrote:You're messing with the entire ~sandbox~ thing. Don't implement this on TQ, please. This is beyond dangerous for the game. Please elaborate. As far as I can see it, provided it's done correctly, this will help the sandbox a lot more in the long run. It will allow you to run your own tournaments, your own competitions and that adds a layer of depth to the game. but you can already do those things so they aren't added with this as for being detrimental to the sandbox it is the fact that it is creating a little room in the box that no one can touch
I can see the perspective, it definitely takes the risk away for some people. However, I do wonder how much more content it can bring. It could give us a lot more benefits in the long run in both our own content as well as CCP-made tournaments. Why is that relevant? We can deny it as much as we want, and pretend to be an ostrich when it comes to money, but CCP in the end wants to earn money. When a relatively simple idea could potentially rake in a lot more interested players in the long run, that is something I do support.
So what would I do?
Allow these systems only to be anchored outside of highsec, to prevent people from safely huddling up in Amarr. Alternatively, limit the amount of systems in which you can anchor such modules for battles to deep low security. Force the players that use it to be at risk in a bunch of systems where both sides of the coin can converge?
Are you a champion and looking for a C5 WH corporation? We're recruiting now!http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=373271 |
l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
1021
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:26:00 -
[95] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Sierra Payne wrote:Randolph Sykes wrote:You're messing with the entire ~sandbox~ thing. Don't implement this on TQ, please. This is beyond dangerous for the game. Please elaborate. As far as I can see it, provided it's done correctly, this will help the sandbox a lot more in the long run. It will allow you to run your own tournaments, your own competitions and that adds a layer of depth to the game. but you can already do those things so they aren't added with this as for being detrimental to the sandbox it is the fact that it is creating a little room in the box that no one can touch
Even though you theoretical can organize a tournament right now on TQ, I can't remember seeing it work successfully outside of a small closed environment (like corp internal event etc) over a longer period of time.
I would like to see something on TQ that promotes and motivates players for the AT and NEO. German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
66
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:27:00 -
[96] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Two step wrote:I think this is great, as long as actual ships are lost when things blow up, I am totally fine with it. All the whining about not being able to interfere with the fights is just nonsense. There are plenty of things in EVE that you cannot interfere with right now, like industry, trading and PI. Where is this magic new requirement that you must be able to screw up what people want to do on their own time coming from? I can mess with your industry by popping your ships or messing with the mineral market i can screw with your PI by blasting your POCO. i can alter your trading by undercutting you You can mess with the ships in the dojo by fighting in the dojo. Undercutting someone on the market is playing within the arena of the market. You don't get the opportunity to blowup the entire market now do you?
I have the opportunity to crash it yes and i affect the market every time i blow something up w/o ever needing to dock.
and i can't mess with ships in someones dojo that isn't mine and that is the problem most are finding with this |
dexington
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
1228
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:27:00 -
[97] - Quote
Two step wrote:Where is this magic new requirement that you must be able to screw up what people want to do on their own time coming from?
Do you also think ccp would add instanced pve missions and mining belts where people could be left alone, or should this new trend remain a dojo exclusive? I'm a relatively respectable citizen. Multiple felon perhaps, but certainly not dangerous. |
Randolph Sykes
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
3
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:27:00 -
[98] - Quote
Sierra Payne wrote:Please elaborate.
What do you need to be elaborated? The lack of artificial boundaries is what makes EVE a sandbox game, its USP. And this is a clearest example of such artificial boundaries. Deployment of such a feature on TQ is going to kill a lot of pvp-related things. You are going to struggle finding a fight anywhere other than these dojos. Why? If I want to find a fight now - I need to roam around. I need to know where to find targets. I need to know how to get a fight - to catch a prey or to make myself look like a prey. There is a risk to end up in a camp, to be overwhelmed, to be jammed by a sudden Falcon - and this is what makes EVE pvp awesome. But a lot of people would prefer dojos to the sandbox pvp, because it's much easier. |
Eshnala
TURN LEFT The Camel Empire
42
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:28:00 -
[99] - Quote
l0rd carlos wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Sierra Payne wrote:Randolph Sykes wrote:You're messing with the entire ~sandbox~ thing. Don't implement this on TQ, please. This is beyond dangerous for the game. Please elaborate. As far as I can see it, provided it's done correctly, this will help the sandbox a lot more in the long run. It will allow you to run your own tournaments, your own competitions and that adds a layer of depth to the game. but you can already do those things so they aren't added with this as for being detrimental to the sandbox it is the fact that it is creating a little room in the box that no one can touch Even though you theoretical can organize a tournament right now on TQ, I can't remember seeing it work successfully outside of a small closed environment (like corp internal event etc) over a longer period of time. I would like to see something on TQ that promotes and motivates players for the AT and NEO.
^ pretty much this. |
Dave Stark
6968
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:34:00 -
[100] - Quote
dexington wrote:Two step wrote:Where is this magic new requirement that you must be able to screw up what people want to do on their own time coming from? Do you also think ccp would add instanced pve missions and mining belts where people could be left alone, or should this new trend remain a dojo exclusive?
instanced mining would be fantastic, and not require me to find a mining agent. |
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PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2124
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:36:00 -
[101] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Two step wrote:I think this is great, as long as actual ships are lost when things blow up, I am totally fine with it. All the whining about not being able to interfere with the fights is just nonsense. There are plenty of things in EVE that you cannot interfere with right now, like industry, trading and PI. Where is this magic new requirement that you must be able to screw up what people want to do on their own time coming from? I can mess with your industry by popping your ships or messing with the mineral market i can screw with your PI by blasting your POCO. i can alter your trading by undercutting you You can mess with the ships in the dojo by fighting in the dojo. Undercutting someone on the market is playing within the arena of the market. You don't get the opportunity to blowup the entire market now do you? I have the opportunity to crash it yes and i affect the market every time i blow something up w/o ever needing to dock. and i can't mess with ships in someones dojo that isn't mine and that is the problem most are finding with this And you have the opportunity to blow up dojo ships every time you fight in the dojo.
When you crash a market, you use the tools within that market to crash it. And even then it still exists, you don't get to blow up the station, after all. When you fight in the dojo, you use the tools of the dojo to destroy ships within said dojo. Simple.
I can't drop bubble or bombs in hisec, does that mean the sandbox is dead? No, for each and every type of space and environment that exists, there are rules. No environment in eve is 100% freeform. |
Sierra Payne
Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole
6
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
Randolph Sykes wrote:Sierra Payne wrote:Please elaborate.
What do you need to be elaborated? The lack of artificial boundaries is what makes EVE a sandbox game, its USP. And this is a clearest example of such artificial boundaries. Deployment of such a feature on TQ is going to kill a lot of pvp-related things. You are going to struggle finding a fight anywhere other than these dojos. Why? If I want to find a fight now - I need to roam around. I need to know where to find targets. I need to know how to get a fight - to catch a prey or to make myself look like a prey. There is a risk to end up in a camp, to be overwhelmed, to be jammed by a sudden Falcon - and this is what makes EVE pvp awesome. But a lot of people would prefer dojos to the sandbox pvp, because it's much easier.
I see a lot of assumptions and all I think is that they can be debunked quite quickly.
Quote: You are going to struggle finding a fight anywhere other than these dojos
People already struggle finding good battles right now due to the enormous size and player distribution. It's either fighting against nullbears, WH people or the few central FW systems with link alts. Giving them an arena to PVP doesn't make any difference, especially not when you keep in mind that the size of EVE as a whole is too large to support the playerbase equally.
Quote:Why? If I want to find a fight now - I need to roam around. I need to know where to find targets. I need to know how to get a fight - to catch a prey or to make myself look like a prey.
And that still remains outside of the Dojo. You still have to find targets but rather than having people bail from PVP because of the sad state it's in with link-alts being required to remotely get any competitive in FW space, we now have a way to prepare them for solo battles to get their feet wet before losing tons of ships with minimal improvement because they get outperformed by veterans. We literally would have a way to help new players get more experienced without instantly having that dread over their heads that they won't make a dent anyways.
Quote: But a lot of people would prefer dojos to the sandbox pvp, because it's much easier I do not always have the time to go on a three hour roam with possibly 3-4 targets that are going to be fightable. Sure, I could do other things then but this is the issue that relates to the immense spread of players across the server. We're not having enough players per system to get an abundance of targets, in a relatively fair battle.
I know that the excitement of a roam is still there, but what happens when your Dojo offers no incentives (as said before)? It only allows tournaments and/or new players/duelling players to practice their stuff. Yup, I could go to SiSi but seeing that server is a test server (and thus not guaranteed to be stable for any tournament effort) along with toons not properly being added in time to SiSi, this may be a potential solution.
One note: It feels as if you force people on three hour roams, when they may have one hour to play. That's like being in SOV Null, having time for 1-2 sites and then being yelled at because you're not on a CTA that lasts 4-6 hours. It's ridiculous.
Are you a champion and looking for a C5 WH corporation? We're recruiting now!http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=373271 |
Eshnala
TURN LEFT The Camel Empire
42
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:39:00 -
[103] - Quote
Just make the dojo destructable, including everything thats in there. Then you have the option to interfere with it. |
Jackie Fisher
Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate
389
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:43:00 -
[104] - Quote
Will the winners of Dojo fights will get bonus skill points and State Issue Ravens as reward for their victory? Fear God and Thread Nought |
GizzyBoy
Aperture Harmonics No Holes Barred
100
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:43:00 -
[105] - Quote
yah new toys! |
Randolph Sykes
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:54:00 -
[106] - Quote
Sierra Payne wrote: People already struggle finding good battles right now due to the enormous size and player distribution.
It doesn't justify an attempt to make things worse than they already are.
Sierra Payne wrote: And that still remains outside of the Dojo.
You missed the whole point. Dojos are going to completely substitute the pvp environment for many players, not to be an addition.
Tell me: would you continue doing as many roamings as you do now to get pvp in this game should dojos become a thing on TQ?
Sierra Payne wrote: I do not always have the time to go on a three hour roam with possibly 3-4 targets that are going to be fightable.
If you need three hours to find 3-4 fightable targets - you are doing it wrong. You need to improve. This is the difference between a good and a very good player. I don't consider myself a very good player fyi, but I see a healthy challenge in becoming better at finding targets. But throw some dojos on TQ - and there is no need to improve anymore. This kills competition, not enhances it. |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
1051
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:58:00 -
[107] - Quote
Folks can use "/build:828481" instead of "/server:Duality" in the launcher shortcut to patch. Directions should work from that point forward.
Hopefully the stated directions will start working later, but for now that'll workaround. CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online |
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Schmell
Russian Thunder Squad The Afterlife.
42
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:58:00 -
[108] - Quote
Oh, i thought you were gone.
Ever planning to backport LoL matchmaking into eve ? |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Nulli Secunda
1539
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Posted - 2014.09.25 12:59:00 -
[109] - Quote
Be very careful about making very sure that this can't be used to hide links, supers, an ess, sov structures, or anything else~important~. Or even a ship that couldn't hide without this. Unprobeable deadspace sounds very very dangerous. I also want to watch the matches!
I'm very much okay with something that controls fights between two consenting adults for the sole purpose of 1v1 fights in the missionary position Build your empire ! Start today ! Rent Space in Perrigen Falls and Feythabolis Contact me for details :)
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Sierra Payne
Confederation of Independent Contractors Swamphole
6
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:01:00 -
[110] - Quote
Randolph Sykes wrote:Sierra Payne wrote: I do not always have the time to go on a three hour roam with possibly 3-4 targets that are going to be fightable.
If you need three hours to find 3-4 fightable targets - you are doing it wrong. You need to improve. This is the difference between a good and a very good player. I don't consider myself a very good player fyi, but I see a healthy challenge in becoming better at finding targets. But throw some dojos on TQ - and there is no need to improve anymore. This kills competition, not enhances it.
So here I am, going out for a roam in FW space. I do not have a link-alt available to get boosts so about 75% of the fights are badly in the opponent's favor. So I am sitting there with skills that need some work, fighting someone who has a massive advantage and you then tell me it's my fault I can't find fightable targets without just throwing ISK at it and pray?
It's a problem that puts a lot of new players off.
Are you a champion and looking for a C5 WH corporation? We're recruiting now!http://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=373271 |
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l0rd carlos
Friends Of Harassment The Camel Empire
1024
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:03:00 -
[111] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote:Be very careful about making very sure that this can't be used to hide links, supers, an ess, sov structures, or anything else~important~. Or even a ship that couldn't hide without this. Unprobeable deadspace sounds very very dangerous. I also want to watch the matches! You can already do that now. (If there is some kind of deadspace in the system) German blog about smallscale lowsec pvp: http://friendsofharassment.wordpress.com |
Dreekus
High Voltage Industries Ash Alliance
3
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:04:00 -
[112] - Quote
Winthorp wrote:Precision Zero wrote:Where is the dislike button? THIS. I can't believe this is happening actually. Am very disappoint. The slippery slope has begun...
I hate with passion "Slippery slope" argument. You can say this about anything.
But more on topic:idea sound AWESOME, but honestly never on TQ. Maybe on sisi but never on TQ. It would make easier organizing any player driven tournaments but risks are too great imho. |
Edward Olmops
Gunboat Commando
196
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:05:00 -
[113] - Quote
To all those people who already bemoan the death of 1v1 PvP...
I would estimate that at least 78.3 % of all kills in EVE are generated through fights where one side would not have wanted the fight, because they were badly outnumbered. People only fight if they think they will or will likely win. So fights will only happen 1-5 times for each noob and then when one side does not pay attention/the cat runs over the keyboard or the like. On the other hand, everyone wants PvP and cries that it's so hard to find fights (=fights they would win).
Result: people are hotdropping single ships with fleets of cloaky battleships... out of boredom. And large areas where people do not do certain things, because it's... well... unhealthy because of all the ganks.
An arena sysrem would encourage risk adverse players (coll.: cowards ^^) to try PvP in a controlled environment. Same counts for specialized PvPers who have not focussed on initiating fights/controlling condtions (coll.: mindless F1 drones).
With all those people in the Dojo, the thing is practically guaranteed to become a success. And what is even more important: The rest of the cluster will have a more balanced ratio of wolves and sheep. And the learning cliff for PvP will be easier to master since you can train.
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Le Petite More
Dropbears Anonymous Brave Collective
90
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:05:00 -
[114] - Quote
Dear CCP,
Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea. Solo roaming is hard enough without creating "safe" instances for people to partake in risk free pvp. This reduces player interaction without actually adding anything to the game. Like placing incursions in highsec this encourages a play style that will leave many of us upset. The answer to fights are hard to find is not to make them even harder to find.
These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links.
For newer players like those of us in BNI it also reduces our only weapon against the SP gap.....numbers.
I hope these never make them onto tranquility.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
66
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:06:00 -
[115] - Quote
Eshnala wrote:Just make the dojo destructable, including everything thats in there. Then you have the option to interfere with it.
and don't make them easy to build put them around the Cruiser level and maybe make the BPCs only spawn in LS |
Chirality Tisteloin
Zervas Aeronautics Get Off My Lawn
39
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:08:00 -
[116] - Quote
Gilbaron wrote: I also want to watch the matches!
Agreed.
Spectators could be a target for interuption and thus bind the dojo into the sandbox without disrupting the Pewdokas. Make Stands that are scannable and warpable. Protected zone would then be more like a POS shield with shooting allowed inside.
How to make the spectators sit in their ships around the Dojo? Make them enforce the boundary violation
On the otherhand: Deadspace usage by players could have such potential. Player built acceleration gates ..... See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/ |
Randolph Sykes
Iris Covenant The Gorgon Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:09:00 -
[117] - Quote
Sierra Payne wrote: So here I am, going out for a roam in FW space.
If you are trying to find targets in key systems of Caldari FW space - you are doing it wrong. You can easily find a lot of non-linked targets in less populated systems: Martoh, Ashitsu, Kehjari etc. Or in Minmatar FW space. See - you have become a little bit better! |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2722
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:09:00 -
[118] - Quote
It is my opinion that this system needs to be implemented on Chaos posthaste; all the devs should definitely spend time per-week in it, in the hopes that the next dev roam won't be so mindlessly slaughtered. |
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CCP Veritas
C C P C C P Alliance
1053
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:10:00 -
[119] - Quote
Le Petite More wrote:Please consider that I have tried this and think it is a terrible idea.
Le Petite More wrote:These will also be abused the hell out of to create safe pockets for afk, well you can't call them cloakers because they won't have to cloak, cyno alts, scouts, supers, and links. Had you actually tried this you'd know the fight has a 5 minute timer.
And that the only ships and modules that go in are ships and modules that are stocked in the dojo.
Oye. CCP Veritas - Technical Director - EVE Online |
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Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1520
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Posted - 2014.09.25 13:16:00 -
[120] - Quote
Now you are talking crazy talk, let them get it the hate out of their systems before they try it or actually . . .you know. . . think.
m Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
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