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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 14 post(s) |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:42:00 -
[241] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: So its not sandbox then is it?
Eve stopped being a sandbox because of the AT?
Jenn aSide wrote: We are dealing with it, but explaining to them why this is a terribly bad idea. Your problem is that yo think you will get something out of this, therefore the fact that this could be bad for many aspects of the game doesn't bother you. It's basically selfishness (which infects all "solo" types).
I don't expect anything from it when I go roam for hours, same here but thanks for the logical fallacy and generalization (pro-tip : people have been soloing for years).
Also thanks for your opinion, funny how all the people complaining about this are not part of the target demographic.
ayyy lmao |
Ais Hellia
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
47
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:45:00 -
[242] - Quote
Talking about unEve features, first of all it's undestroyable stations with untouchable assets, null-secs have been enjoying for years. Why don't you whine about this? |
Manic Velocity
Scout's Regiment
58
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:45:00 -
[243] - Quote
Kenneth Skybound wrote:Manic Velocity wrote:Words and stuff... Just curious how you'd feel if they weren't impenetrable deadspaces? Also, please don't harp on about "minority want this, don't do it." The majority of players are in high sec space. Only a minority manage wormholes. Only a minority do reverse engineering. Only a minority solo pvp frequently. Only a minority fly black ops. Only a minority use large railguns frequently. The minority card can be pulled on almost anything and isn't in itself a good reason to not work on something.
Deadspace pockets are already penetrable via probes. Making dojos penetrable wouldn't change anything that already exists, so I would have to question why dev time was spent on them in the first place.
And I absolutely will harp on catering to the minority when it has the potential to upset the majority. It's the same reason I, and many other people don't want more dev time spent on WiS. I've never heard anyone say they wished EVE had more instanced PvP arenas, but I'm seeing a lot of people saying that they shouldn't exist in EVE.
But again, as I said at the end of my original post, if dojos were to remain on the test servers, away from TQ, I don't think I would have a problem with them. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13296
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:46:00 -
[244] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote: So its not sandbox then is it?
Eve stopped being a sandbox because of the AT?
You keep on going on about how we shouldn't stop you from doing what you want in the sandbox yet you seem fine with removing our sandbox.
This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
760
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:50:00 -
[245] - Quote
I may have missed it - if you boundary violate do you get popped? For training purposes I hope there is just a way to flag, with the ships getting docked or popped at the end of the timer. CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
797
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:50:00 -
[246] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state.
Neither is Singularity, and yet Eve seems to be okay despite this. How are dojos any different than logging onto Singularity and doing the same thing? This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 -
[247] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote: So its not sandbox then is it?
Eve stopped being a sandbox because of the AT? You keep on going on about how we shouldn't stop you from doing what you want in the sandbox yet you seem fine with removing our sandbox. This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state.
No, you used some flawed logic about being able to do everything I did the same.
It's not compatible with your gameplay, I'm sad for you but this is a sandbox, sorry you are not part of the target demographic for this feature. |
XavierVE
Reasonable People Of Sound Mind
268
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 -
[248] - Quote
Not in keeping with EVE. A very, very bad idea.
One can already warp to a safespot and 1v1 with other people. Sure, they can be probed down... but that's EVE. |
Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
1171
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 -
[249] - Quote
I proposed something similar to this nearly a decade ago. Now it only needs to be fully integrated in the game including betting and twitch integration. Maybe finally something of value for the WIS screen? Mashie Saldana Dominique Vasilkovsky
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13296
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:51:00 -
[250] - Quote
Querns wrote:baltec1 wrote: This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state.
Neither is Singularity, and yet Eve seems to be okay despite this. How are dojos any different than logging onto Singularity and doing the same thing?
They would be on the main server. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
66
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:52:00 -
[251] - Quote
Ais Hellia wrote:Talking about unEve features, first of all it's undestroyable stations with untouchable assets, null-secs have been enjoying for years. Why don't you whine about this?
because CCP has already hinted at destroying stations |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
797
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:52:00 -
[252] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Querns wrote:baltec1 wrote: This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state.
Neither is Singularity, and yet Eve seems to be okay despite this. How are dojos any different than logging onto Singularity and doing the same thing? They would be on the main server. My point is that if you want no-consequence PvP, you can already log into Singularity and do it there.
Dojos don't add anything new to Eve in this regard. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Kael Attrell
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
4
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:54:00 -
[253] - Quote
This is great, please someone keep working on this and get us up to 10v10 versions or so. I have no doubt that you can easily see past all the ridiculous slippery slope / sandbox complaints. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2774
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 -
[254] - Quote
Querns wrote:My point is that if you want no-consequence PvP, you can already log into Singularity and do it there.
Dojos don't add anything new to Eve in this regard.
Until they show up on TQ in which moment they will remove "non-" from non-consensual pvp. Invalid signature format |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13296
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 -
[255] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote: So its not sandbox then is it?
Eve stopped being a sandbox because of the AT? You keep on going on about how we shouldn't stop you from doing what you want in the sandbox yet you seem fine with removing our sandbox. This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state. No, you used some flawed logic about being able to do everything I did the same. It's not compatible with your gameplay, I'm sad for you but this is a sandbox, sorry you are not part of the target demographic for this feature.
Its not a sandbox element if it is an instance.
I have just as much right to gank you as you have to go do a 1v1. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Ais Hellia
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:55:00 -
[256] - Quote
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:Ais Hellia wrote:Talking about unEve features, first of all it's undestroyable stations with untouchable assets, null-secs have been enjoying for years. Why don't you whine about this? because CCP has already hinted at destroying stations
lol "hinted" after 10 years you gladly used them |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13299
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:56:00 -
[257] - Quote
Querns wrote:baltec1 wrote:Querns wrote:baltec1 wrote: This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state.
Neither is Singularity, and yet Eve seems to be okay despite this. How are dojos any different than logging onto Singularity and doing the same thing? They would be on the main server. My point is that if you want no-consequence PvP, you can already log into Singularity and do it there. Dojos don't add anything new to Eve in this regard.
They do on tranq. There should never be a way to shield yourself from enemy actions while you are PvPing on tranq. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8312
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:57:00 -
[258] - Quote
Querns wrote:baltec1 wrote: This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state.
Neither is Singularity, and yet Eve seems to be okay despite this. How are dojos any different than logging onto Singularity and doing the same thing?
Singularity has no impact on the main (Tranq hosted) game. Dojos on singularity or duality, fine, not on Tranquility. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2775
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 15:57:00 -
[259] - Quote
Btw, Veritas has a real chance to go from one of most respected and liked dev to most hated one in record time. How's that for a legacy? Invalid signature format |
F4bske
Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire
8
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Posted - 2014.09.25 15:57:00 -
[260] - Quote
Arena like pvp in EVE ? YES PLEASE! |
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8312
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:00:00 -
[261] - Quote
Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote: So its not sandbox then is it?
Eve stopped being a sandbox because of the AT? Jenn aSide wrote: We are dealing with it, but explaining to them why this is a terribly bad idea. Your problem is that yo think you will get something out of this, therefore the fact that this could be bad for many aspects of the game doesn't bother you. It's basically selfishness (which infects all "solo" types).
I don't expect anything from it when I go roam for hours, same here but thanks for the logical fallacy and generalization (pro-tip : people have been soloing for years). Also thanks for your opinion, funny how all the people complaining about this are not part of the target demographic.
ayyy lmao
The "Target Demographic" is and should be EVE players (as a whole), not some selfish special interest group who doesn't care about everyone else. |
Ais Hellia
The Deliberate Forces HYDRA RELOADED
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:00:00 -
[262] - Quote
Querns wrote:[quote=baltec1][quote=Querns][quote=baltec1]
Dojos don't add anything new to Eve in this regard.
advanced dojos can add tools of auto-checking point values, restricted fits and implants allowed into battleground and other AT instruments. sticking to simple 1vs1, it is a useless tool of course |
Yun Kuai
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
197
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Posted - 2014.09.25 16:01:00 -
[263] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote: I have had this move pulled on me before and it was disastrous to that game. I do not want the same to happen here.
Nice appeal to emotion and logical fallacy, you are obviously biased because your corporation is into "non-consensual" pvp. You forgot that people that go/live in null or in the fw warzone won't magically disappear but having to roam for hours to find good fights is terrible for the game it lowers the player retention and give them no short term objectives, people "poaching" them to brave newbies and rvb doesn't help. This is a sandbox, your way to play is not the only way to play deal with it and adapt brobro. In every single game that has added arenas the PvP in all other areas was sucked into them. The more more that join the arenas the fewer targets there are to hunt so more people join the arenas and we end up with a runaway effect untill we have everyone in arenas. This has happened in every single game that has added them and will happen in this one too. FW will die, RvB will die and null will also be impacted. This is a terrible thing to have on Tranq and always will be. This thing is as Un-EVE as it gets and is utterly incompatible with EVE core gameplay. It will not add more players to the game and the same people who get bored with hunting for targets will get bored with arenas after the same length of time.
He really doesn't get it. The big blue doughnut has killed EvE and is "utterly incompatible with EVE core gameplay. It will not add more players to the game and the same people who get bored with hunting for targets" will continue to remain as bored as they are now. This will give your entire group of line members something to actually do while the rest of you sit on overturned chairs and stroke each other's ego.
And p.s. FW won't die. It has the most content in the game with system constantly pushing 2k kills/day for almost the last 2 years bc we actually fight for and defend our systems instead of hide behind timers and tidi blue ball fest. But in moments where it's hard to find something that isn't linked garmur faggotry or Razor/Snuff/angry Russians/etc style of blobbing this would fun to quickly bounce over to and get a few fights to keep the skills honed.
Keep wearing those blinders Baltec1, maybe they'll cone off and you'll remember how fun EvE used to be when there was constant content of all forms going on --------------------------------------------------------::::::::::::--:::-----:::---::::::::::::--------------:::----------:::----:::---:::----------------------:::::::-------:::---:::----::::::-------------------:::-----------:::--:::----:::---------------------::::::::::::----:::::::----:::::::::::::------- |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:03:00 -
[264] - Quote
baltec1 wrote: Its not a sandbox element if it is an instance.
I have just as much right to gank you as you have to go do a 1v1.
No, no you don't, you have ways to gank people within a setup, just like being docked dojos aren't part of that setup.
Do you also complain about not being to gank the AT teams? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
802
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Posted - 2014.09.25 16:04:00 -
[265] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Querns wrote:baltec1 wrote: This thing is not compatible with the sandbox in its current state.
Neither is Singularity, and yet Eve seems to be okay despite this. How are dojos any different than logging onto Singularity and doing the same thing? Singularity has no impact on the main (Tranq hosted) game. Dojos on singularity or duality, fine, not on Tranquility. You all are missing the point.
If I want to engage in consequence free PvP, I have an option to do so already. Your arguments are that adding dojos would magick into existence a way to have consequence free PvP, an option that has never been available in Eve before. I am saying that this option already exists, and people are already partaking of it. (Albeit with triage-supported vindicators -- something that the point system and manual, real-world goods stocking of dojos would handily defeat, I might add!)
You can't just segment off Singularity from your argument and pretend it doesn't exist while simultaneously decrying the addition of non-interdictable, low-to-no-consequence PvP. This is the silliest form of myopia. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:05:00 -
[266] - Quote
Instead of fighting on tranquility, more and more people are opting to fight on Singularity. Regardless of whether or not assets are copied over, this is, effectively, a second shard.
Even larger groups are using it, apparently, to hold their own contests. (see: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=361122 )
The difference between that and a Dojo, is that with the Dojo, actual Tranquility assets are destroyed in the process, just like the AT.
Moving contests and tournaments to Singularity is apparently growing in popularity, yet people are crying chicken little over a game mechanic that would bring that asset destruction back to the primary universe.
Sure, scrap the Dojo's, but you have no right to complain when Singularity is reborn into a consentual-PvP server. |
Bamboozlement
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:06:00 -
[267] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote: The "Target Demographic" is and should be EVE players (as a whole), not some selfish special interest group who doesn't care about everyone else.
So the industry expansion should somehow pander to every single other part of eve, same for nullsec change right? They should also pander to people that run l4 missions in hs, somehow?
Try to make sense, or you know you could deal with the fact that CCP is adding something to the game that you don't like, HTFU like we say in eve. |
Torneach Structor
Emrys Enterprises
139
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:08:00 -
[268] - Quote
I have my reservations about this.
But as an alliance- or corp-created structure that is only anchorable in Low or Null, I think it would be fine to have then.
I think that way you still keep it exclusively as player-run content, there is still risk involved, the owners need to protect their arena, and people won't be able to just hang around in hisec to jump into these things on a whim. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13301
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:08:00 -
[269] - Quote
Yun Kuai wrote:baltec1 wrote:Bamboozlement wrote:baltec1 wrote: I have had this move pulled on me before and it was disastrous to that game. I do not want the same to happen here.
Nice appeal to emotion and logical fallacy, you are obviously biased because your corporation is into "non-consensual" pvp. You forgot that people that go/live in null or in the fw warzone won't magically disappear but having to roam for hours to find good fights is terrible for the game it lowers the player retention and give them no short term objectives, people "poaching" them to brave newbies and rvb doesn't help. This is a sandbox, your way to play is not the only way to play deal with it and adapt brobro. In every single game that has added arenas the PvP in all other areas was sucked into them. The more more that join the arenas the fewer targets there are to hunt so more people join the arenas and we end up with a runaway effect untill we have everyone in arenas. This has happened in every single game that has added them and will happen in this one too. FW will die, RvB will die and null will also be impacted. This is a terrible thing to have on Tranq and always will be. This thing is as Un-EVE as it gets and is utterly incompatible with EVE core gameplay. It will not add more players to the game and the same people who get bored with hunting for targets will get bored with arenas after the same length of time. He really doesn't get it. The big blue doughnut has killed EvE and is "utterly incompatible with EVE core gameplay. It will not add more players to the game and the same people who get bored with hunting for targets" will continue to remain as bored as they are now. This will give your entire group of line members something to actually do while the rest of you sit on overturned chairs and stroke each other's ego. And p.s. FW won't die. It has the most content in the game with system constantly pushing 2k kills/day for almost the last 2 years bc we actually fight for and defend our systems instead of hide behind timers and tidi blue ball fest. But in moments where it's hard to find something that isn't linked garmur faggotry or Razor/Snuff/angry Russians/etc style of blobbing this would fun to quickly bounce over to and get a few fights to keep the skills honed. Keep wearing those blinders Baltec1, maybe they'll cone off and you'll remember how fun EvE used to be when there was constant content of all forms going on
It will die just like the PvP in all of those other games did.
The instant gratification mob are by far the worst crowd to cater to, soon after adding 1v1s they will demand 10v10s. Before long we will find PvP rank systems and then all PvP will happen in the arenas. It has happened time after time after time in the exact same way to every single game that added arenas. We joined EVE because it is not like all of those countless other games. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Sydon Audeles
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.25 16:09:00 -
[270] - Quote
I appreciate that you put in the work to demo this, but I think it's pretty fundamentally antithetical to what EVE is about. It's another way to lower the risk of PVP and remove people from interacting with the universe, even for a short amount of time, and that's moving in the wrong direction. You want to honor 1v1 at a safe? Go for it. That's how my own alliance has done in-house events in the past. And if someone wanders through and scans us down, that's more content, that's not A Bad Thing. This adds a new level of exploitability and complexity to create a system for dueling that isn't needed.
Specific complaints with the stated implementation: teleporting from station to anywhere is bad. You should have to undock. "Click a menu button to teleport to content" is riding too close to theme park MMO land. Also, having a perfectly safe deadspace pocket. If there's a sig and I scan it down, I can follow the acceleration gate and catch the guy if he didn't warp off in time. Presumably I will not be able to land at this dojo and use it to follow the guy into the pocket, meaning he is perfectly safe in space. That should never happen in EVE.
I'm happy that you guys let us know so early in the process that you were talking about this, and if it helps you in your further Alliance Tournament implementations, great. But I'm honestly hoping the result is that you get an overwhelming response of "we don't want this" and you're able to drop the idea and move on to more awesome ideas without feeling like you wasted too much effort here.
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