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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Nevil Oscillator
1
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
I probably don't fully understand the knock on effects to the entire game but if someone does please enlighten this thread.
If Concord can sell war rights why can't it sell kill rights ? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Priscilla Project
Custom Clothing Productions
87
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
I would guess this fits into the IGS forum.... The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ") |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
437
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:07:00 -
[3] - Quote
The story goes that CONCORD is bribed to ignore violence against capsuleers from capsuleers.
You can only wardec non-NPC corps.
So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.
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Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2788
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Because somewhere in code there's something like this:
WarDec CreateWarDec(Corporation offender, Corporation defender) { ... } Invalid signature format |
Rain6635
Team Evil
878
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:21:00 -
[5] - Quote
claim statement: wardecs are literally killrights for ISK, affecting groups of players, rather than individuals. allowing individual kill rights for ISK would be discrimination.
proposal: this system is obtusely one-way, and I think what would be interesting is a way to buy killright immunity from a group, for ISK. To ensure it is just as chronologically dependent as wardecs, the targeted group should be locked out from making wardecs as long as the immunity fee is paid, with the only diplomatic solution being an immunity buyout that has to be accepted by the immune party. only then can a wardec commence.
summary: corporation/alliance-specific wardec immunity through concord, with a "let us wardec you plz" ISK negotiation option. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Matius Udan
State War Academy Caldari State
9
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:22:00 -
[6] - Quote
There are ways to avoid a war dec but you cant avoid a kill right in the same way - they are different things and should be treated differently. Although buying a kill right would be interesting as it would overpower suicide ganking - well it wouldnt be called suicide ganking anymore - just Hi Sec safe ganking - dps would no longer matter as much because you can shoot as long as the kill right lasts. |
Rain6635
Team Evil
878
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:23:00 -
[7] - Quote
also, like wardecs, successive immunity rights against a group become more and more expensive based on the existing number of immunity rights that have been purchased against them.
CCP ready go Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Priscilla Project
Custom Clothing Productions
87
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:25:00 -
[8] - Quote
Rain6635 wrote:claim statement: wardecs are literally killrights for ISK, affecting groups of players, rather than individuals. allowing individual kill rights for ISK would be discrimination.
proposal: this system is obtusely one-way, and I think what would be interesting is a way to buy killright immunity from a group, for ISK. To ensure it is just as chronologically dependent as wardecs, the targeted group should be locked out from making wardecs as long as the immunity fee is paid, with the only diplomatic solution being an immunity buyout that has to be accepted by the immune party. only then can a wardec commence.
summary: corporation/alliance-specific wardec immunity through concord, with a "let us wardec you plz" ISK negotiation option. The TL.DR of this is CCP Tuxfords...
When you enter New Eden you are at war with everyone ... ... and have to declare PEACE!
I still believe that's a good way to go ........ The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ") |
Nevil Oscillator
1
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:25:00 -
[9] - Quote
Yarda Black wrote:
So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.
That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Rain6635
Team Evil
879
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:26:00 -
[10] - Quote
basically yes, a mechanic that amounts to 'don't let them taze me bro' Rainf1337 on Twitch |
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J'Poll
CDG Playgrounds
4553
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:27:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Yarda Black wrote:
So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.
That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side.
Simple, gank him, trick him into a LE, what ever.... Personal channel: Crazy Dutch Guy
Ever wanted to PvP but can't find people to fly with. Look no further and this chat: Redemption Road |
Rain6635
Team Evil
879
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:30:00 -
[12] - Quote
yeah. individual killrights for ISK is pretty much bold-faced griefing. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5189
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Yarda Black wrote:
So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.
That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side. Individual kill rights are generated in highsec by unlawful aggression and can be made available for whatever price the holder places upon it.
However you need to be on grid with someone to see that they have a killright.
Someone proposed a while back that these be made searchable through the bounty office, which imo is a great idea. =]I[= |
Kaarous Aldurald
ROC Deep Space The ROC
9904
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:44:00 -
[14] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Yarda Black wrote:
So if you want to kill a dude in h-sec, wardec his corp.
That's correct as far as I'm aware but if it is just one dude you are after and maybe he isn't in a corp or it's an NPC corp or a corp with so many members it is going to cost the same as a major war with hundreds on each side. Individual kill rights are generated in highsec by unlawful aggression and can be made available for whatever price the holder places upon it. However you need to be on grid with someone to see that they have a killright. Someone proposed a while back that these be made searchable through the bounty office, which imo is a great idea.
This is the correct answer. "Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."
One of ours, ten of theirs. |
Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
437
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:46:00 -
[15] - Quote
H-sec has mechanics. And rules. Lots of them. I dont like that. So I stay away.
If you want to kill a single dude, then do the same and move away from all those restrictions. |
Rain6635
Team Evil
880
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nevil, what J'Poll is saying is you can already kill someone if you're willing to spend ISK. there is no protection from an overwhelming amount of damage that can kill a ship. for one one ship to chew on another ship long enough to kill it, in highsec, it has to be done legally, with something like what you're asking about. but you can also do it illegally with a handful of characters.
If CCP allowed you to kill someone legally (with something like an individual killright), they would be condoning something that is basically [already] griefing ...if you do it repeatedly. keeping it the way it is allows CCP to promote killing each other, while maintaining a clear conscience. (after all, they ban people for griefing).
You need to accept the fact that your ship can be destroyed if you are in space. The best thing is to just appreciate the lol factor if someone decides to go out of their way to pew you. "let it go, let it go."
You'll see people say "don't fly what you can't afford to lose." and it's basically that. You're actually [already] in danger, and a focused, personal killright would be redundant. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Nevil Oscillator
1
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Posted - 2014.09.26 11:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ralph King-Griffin wrote:
However you need to be on grid with someone to see that they have a killright.
There don't have to be any criminals or people who have hurt you in a corp before you are allowed to war-dec it. Seeing as it might be a completely innocent target, Concord could inform them that someone has bought a kill right The price could vary for reasons (Corp, Security Status, Faction or whatever) Possibly The target could pay for the kill right to be removed.. lol three times the price
See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Rain6635
Team Evil
880
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:02:00 -
[18] - Quote
it would be better to not tip them off. the concept of forcibly, illegally killing someone will become clear to you, eventually. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Nevil Oscillator
1
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:04:00 -
[19] - Quote
Rain6635 wrote: but you can also do it illegally with a handful of characters.
You can but are you telling me gankers are after someone specific ?, from what I've seen in high sec they are looking for cargo ships on autopilot and mining ships with sod all tank so they can lose a ship that doesn't cost anything. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Rain6635
Team Evil
880
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:10:00 -
[20] - Quote
normally, yeah, they're after someone's cargo. that would make sense, but it doesn't have to. someone could do it for no obvious reason, maybe a vendetta. or a forum post. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
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Yarda Black
Militaris Industries Northern Coalition.
438
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Rain6635 wrote:normally, yeah, they're after someone's cargo. that would make sense, but it doesn't have to. someone could do it for no obvious reason, maybe a vendetta. or a forum post.
As a ganker, I'd go after the OP. I mean, here I am avoiding h-sec mechanics, coordinating a strike with my ganker buddies in their catalysts, spending ISK and time to make it work. Then some guy just proposes to build in a new griefing mechanic making my career in EVE obsolete.
If I were a ganker I'd be insulted to say the least. I'd be hitting a locater agent right about now. OP is ofcourse extremely lucky. I'm not. |
Rain6635
Team Evil
883
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:18:00 -
[22] - Quote
I may have visited a locator agent out of curiosity. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Marc Durant
142
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:19:00 -
[23] - Quote
Matius Udan wrote:There are ways to avoid a war dec but you cant avoid a kill right in the same way - they are different things and should be treated differently. Although buying a kill right would be interesting as it would overpower suicide ganking - well it wouldnt be called suicide ganking anymore - just Hi Sec safe ganking - dps would no longer matter as much because you can shoot as long as the kill right lasts.
This pretty much, you can avoid a wardec by simply not being part of a corp. Comparing a wardec to a killright may sound logical but is actually a fallacy. Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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Nevil Oscillator
1
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Rain6635 wrote:normally, yeah, they're after someone's cargo. that would make sense, but it doesn't have to. someone could do it for no obvious reason, maybe a vendetta. or a forum post.
Doesn't make sense, why lose a ship capable of blowing up another ship in the time it takes concord to arrive ? It's like sacrificing a queen to kill a pawn, very finite number of circumstances when it would be worth considering. See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Rain6635
Team Evil
883
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:21:00 -
[25] - Quote
it doesn't have to make sense to the person getting killed, Nevil. remember this is a game and people are looking for entertainment. Rainf1337 on Twitch |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5193
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:27:00 -
[26] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Rain6635 wrote:normally, yeah, they're after someone's cargo. that would make sense, but it doesn't have to. someone could do it for no obvious reason, maybe a vendetta. or a forum post. Doesn't make sense, why lose a ship capable of blowing up another ship in the time it takes concord to arrive ? It's like sacrificing a queen to kill a pawn, very finite number of circumstances when it would be worth considering. Fortunately though, one of those finite number of circumstances is : just because. And it's more like sacrificing 15 or so pawns for a queen. =]I[= |
Marc Durant
142
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:30:00 -
[27] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Rain6635 wrote:normally, yeah, they're after someone's cargo. that would make sense, but it doesn't have to. someone could do it for no obvious reason, maybe a vendetta. or a forum post. Doesn't make sense, why lose a ship capable of blowing up another ship in the time it takes concord to arrive ? It's like sacrificing a queen to kill a pawn, very finite number of circumstances when it would be worth considering.
Because different people have different ideas on values, goals and drives.
For instance, someone could read that post of yours and decide that it would be a great idea to show you exactly why you're mistaken in your thinking.
They'd check you on evewho, not find any obvious alts but quickly realise that the corp has been inactive for years other than a few nameless alts (you're one of them) together with a CEO who (looking at his killboard) is a clueless clown and come to the obvious conclusion that you're that clown. And then decide to have a peek at the activity of you and your alts, send a few scouts to see what you're flying and how many tears you'd cry if you'd lose it, repeatedly. Yes, yes-áI am. Thanks for noticing.
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Nevil Oscillator
1
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rain6635 wrote:it doesn't have to make sense to the person getting killed, Nevil. remember this is a game and people are looking for entertainment.
Well I don't see a major problem with that or how it affects whether or not kill rights should be for sale. Random joyriding gankers exist somewhere maybe, who cares ? See, you didn't know you had a problem until I solved it. |
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight The Devil's Warrior Alliance
5193
|
Posted - 2014.09.26 12:34:00 -
[29] - Quote
Nevil Oscillator wrote:Rain6635 wrote:it doesn't have to make sense to the person getting killed, Nevil. remember this is a game and people are looking for entertainment. Well I don't see a major problem with that or how it affects whether or not kill rights should be for sale. Random joyriding gankers exist somewhere maybe, who cares ? You might.
I forsee Nevil becoming acquainted with the mechanics in question. =]I[= |
Priscilla Project
Custom Clothing Productions
91
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Posted - 2014.09.26 12:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Marc Durant wrote:Nevil Oscillator wrote:Rain6635 wrote:normally, yeah, they're after someone's cargo. that would make sense, but it doesn't have to. someone could do it for no obvious reason, maybe a vendetta. or a forum post. Doesn't make sense, why lose a ship capable of blowing up another ship in the time it takes concord to arrive ? It's like sacrificing a queen to kill a pawn, very finite number of circumstances when it would be worth considering. Because different people have different ideas on values, goals and drives. For instance, someone could read that post of yours and decide that it would be a great idea to show you exactly why you're mistaken in your thinking. They'd check you on evewho, not find any obvious alts but quickly realise that the corp has been inactive for years other than a few nameless alts (you're one of them) together with a CEO who (looking at his killboard) is a clueless clown and come to the obvious conclusion that you're that clown. And then decide to have a peek at the activity of you and your alts, send a few scouts to see what you're flying and how many tears you'd cry if you'd lose it, repeatedly. Not to forget his list of contacts, which often enough brings up interesting viewpoints on things. The most sexy piece of clothing New Eden saw to date! The 'Open Avenue' short dress! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=374461 Join my mailing list, "wemew", for fast and easy future updates! (without the ") |
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