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DeadDuck
Amarr DAB RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.08 14:28:00 -
[31]
Edited by: DeadDuck on 08/08/2006 14:30:25 I fly Zealots for sometime now and tbh I think the ship is great. I alsow think that HAC level 4 and HAC level 5 in that precise ship can make all the diference in the world those 5% extra damage that you can grab with HAC level 5, provide the margin to grow your tank significantly without loosing damage output.
Anyway I will know it after my vacations
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Nebuli
Caldari Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 16:09:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Tassi t2 fitted geddon > zealot
in price AND useability.
t2 fitted domi > ishtar t2 fitted raven > cerb t2 fitted blasterthron > diemos etc, etc, etc, in price AND useability.
What exactly was your point?
CEO - Art of War
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 16:24:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Nebuli
Originally by: Tassi t2 fitted geddon > zealot
in price AND useability.
t2 fitted domi > ishtar t2 fitted raven > cerb t2 fitted blasterthron > diemos etc, etc, etc, in price AND useability.
What exactly was your point?
Perhaps that t2fittedTempest < Vagabond Neb Generally I can think of things I like about my Zealot that a Vaga cant do but if you are talking about Zealot v Vaga 1v1 it can go either way. The Vaga may win or the Vaga may warp out. Everything is possible.
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Nebuli
Caldari Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 16:26:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Nebuli
Originally by: Tassi t2 fitted geddon > zealot
in price AND useability.
t2 fitted domi > ishtar t2 fitted raven > cerb t2 fitted blasterthron > diemos etc, etc, etc, in price AND useability.
What exactly was your point?
Perhaps that t2fittedTempest < Vagabond Neb Generally I can think of things I like about my Zealot that a Vaga cant do but if you are talking about Zealot v Vaga 1v1 it can go either way. The Vaga may win or the Vaga may warp out. Everything is possible.
Sorry but an autopest > vaga in the same way geddon > zealot
CEO - Art of War
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Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 16:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Nebuli
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Nebuli
Originally by: Tassi t2 fitted geddon > zealot
in price AND useability.
t2 fitted domi > ishtar t2 fitted raven > cerb t2 fitted blasterthron > diemos etc, etc, etc, in price AND useability.
What exactly was your point?
Perhaps that t2fittedTempest < Vagabond Neb Generally I can think of things I like about my Zealot that a Vaga cant do but if you are talking about Zealot v Vaga 1v1 it can go either way. The Vaga may win or the Vaga may warp out. Everything is possible.
Sorry but an autopest > vaga in the same way geddon > zealot
I cant agree in 0.0 there are 111 things you can do with a Vaga that you cant do with an Autopest (mainly survive solo) whereas zelots/cerbs/deimos/ishkur etc are only fractionally more survivable than their BS counterparts.
There is a substantive difference there IMO. Hit and run is done by ceptors and by Vagas and that it rly. Hyperion might prove to be the BS equivalent which will make things interesting perhaps (one can only hope)
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Nebuli
Caldari Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 16:36:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Nebuli
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Nebuli
Originally by: Tassi t2 fitted geddon > zealot
in price AND useability.
t2 fitted domi > ishtar t2 fitted raven > cerb t2 fitted blasterthron > diemos etc, etc, etc, in price AND useability.
What exactly was your point?
Perhaps that t2fittedTempest < Vagabond Neb Generally I can think of things I like about my Zealot that a Vaga cant do but if you are talking about Zealot v Vaga 1v1 it can go either way. The Vaga may win or the Vaga may warp out. Everything is possible.
Sorry but an autopest > vaga in the same way geddon > zealot
I cant agree in 0.0 there are 111 things you can do with a Vaga that you cant do with an Autopest (mainly survive solo) whereas zelots/cerbs/deimos/ishkur etc are only fractionally more survivable than their BS counterparts.
There is a substantive difference there IMO. Hit and run is done by ceptors and by Vagas and that it rly. Hyperion might prove to be the BS equivalent which will make things interesting perhaps (one can only hope)
Thats it, go polish my mega
CEO - Art of War
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.08.08 16:42:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Crellion
Perhaps that t2fittedTempest < Vagabond Neb Generally I can think of things I like about my Zealot that a Vaga cant do but if you are talking about Zealot v Vaga 1v1 it can go either way. The Vaga may win or the Vaga may warp out. Everything is possible.
quite an apple vs orange comparsion imo, a tempest is not a big vaga...
vaga rely on speed and passive/dmg/stabs () setups
the tempest is nothing like that, is a more standard (minnie) dps ship, an evolution of the rupture if you want and not of stabber/vaga line.
also as you can see this is not a thing minnie pilots are very happy as many wish to have a BS version of the stabber/vaga.
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Gardiner
Minmatar Silver Star Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.08 18:26:00 -
[38]
Everyone says the Vagabond is 2 good, but they fail to see there races own advatages within the game. Minmatar have for a long time not had anything special. then ccp give us the Vagabond. and u all cry because it's a cool ship.
look at the bigger picture, and u will see that all races have a balance. there is always going to be a superior race in each ship class. a master of some art. all who complain either cant create a working setup with there spec'd race... or there fav ship class is being spanked by another race. all i say is that you people who complain about other races... just becuse someone has an advantage over u with a better designed ship than u dont give u the right to cry for a nerf.
use ur imagination and u can overcome most ships. it's not the ship but the setup that counts most times.
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Fredbob
Draconis Navitas Aeterna Pure.
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Posted - 2006.08.08 19:08:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Crellion ...but if you are talking about Zealot v Vaga 1v1 it can go either way. The Vaga may win or the Vaga may warp out. Everything is possible.
lol ___________ ~Fredbob~
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Wizie
Minmatar Euphoria Released Euphoria Unleashed
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Posted - 2006.08.08 19:14:00 -
[40]
An experienced pilot fitted properly should NEVER lose to a Vagabond.
On the other hand, any Vaga pilot who dies to a Zealot made some big mistakes.
In reality, this fight if not pre-planned as to the death, will end in a stalemate.
The Zealot will force the Vaga to run away almost every time.
A Vaga is an awesome solo ship for ganking npcers and noobs with bad skills and purely npcer setups.. its also the easiest ship to avoid getting ganked by large gangs seeking you out. Something that no other hac can do.
However, the same Vaga will have a much tougher time going up 1v1 against any of the other hacs fitted properly and flown well.
----------------- Sig removed by some noob |
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Kharak'khan
Forsaken Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.08 19:57:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Kharak''khan on 08/08/2006 19:57:08 Vaga is fast and can do damage, The Zealot is considerably slower but is a tough nut with good damage. Ive always found Hacs work best in mixed gangs or a pair but you really will have to be lame for a vaga to kill a zealot easily most of the time its a stalemate.
Most annoying thing about vags is they flit around like a fly on c rack.
YARR HARR FIDDILEE DEE! DO WHAT YOU WANT AS A PIRATE IS FREE |
Crellion
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 19:57:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Ath Amon
Originally by: Crellion
Perhaps that t2fittedTempest < Vagabond Neb Generally I can think of things I like about my Zealot that a Vaga cant do but if you are talking about Zealot v Vaga 1v1 it can go either way. The Vaga may win or the Vaga may warp out. Everything is possible.
quite an apple vs orange comparsion imo, a tempest is not a big vaga...
vaga rely on speed and passive/dmg/stabs () setups
the tempest is nothing like that, is a more standard (minnie) dps ship, an evolution of the rupture if you want and not of stabber/vaga line.
also as you can see this is not a thing minnie pilots are very happy as many wish to have a BS version of the stabber/vaga.
Why... thank you! Now I understand the game of EvE so much better.
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Mahavy Seth
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2006.08.08 21:40:00 -
[43]
Ok thanks mates... ver helpful advices. thanks you truly.
Anyway I have still one mroe doubt:
An armageddon will *****a zealot, or at least this is a balanced fight...
So what the **** why with the rpice of a zealot I made a fleet of armageddons??
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Weirda
Minmatar Queens of the Stone Age Chimaera Pact
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Posted - 2006.08.08 21:50:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Mahavy Seth
So what the **** why with the rpice of a zealot I made a fleet of armageddons??
because it is t2, and with the way t2 lottery work... that's the way it is.
as some others have said, KALI will definatley make the t2 market a lot more interesting.... hopefully... __ Weirda Join QOTSA Now |
webkert
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:36:00 -
[45]
I found this graph in another thread. The spreadsheet has been modified so the zealot is using five turrets.
zealot vs vaga
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Frools
Killson Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.08 22:51:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Frools on 08/08/2006 22:51:29
Originally by: webkert I found this graph in another thread. The spreadsheet has been modified so the zealot is using five turrets.
zealot vs vaga
that doesnt look right, that might be for a theoretical 5 turret zealot
zealot vs vaga max damage vaga max damage but barrage more sensible vaga vs conflag zealot scorch zealot
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Ath Amon
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Posted - 2006.08.09 07:15:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Crellion
Originally by: Ath Amon quite an apple vs orange comparsion imo, a tempest is not a big vaga...
vaga rely on speed and passive/dmg/stabs () setups
the tempest is nothing like that, is a more standard (minnie) dps ship, an evolution of the rupture if you want and not of stabber/vaga line.
also as you can see this is not a thing minnie pilots are very happy as many wish to have a BS version of the stabber/vaga.
Why... thank you! Now I understand the game of EvE so much better.
no prob... glad to bring enlightment
is quite evident the tempest and vaga have 2 different philosophies while zealot and geddon have a more similar one.
and a thing a bout graph
1) vaga can't use hail at all, the speed penality is too high
2) vaga can't fight much in 10km range or it will be webbed and toast
and also generally is more common to fit a nos on the vaga instead of a missile launcher.
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ELECTR0FREAK
Eye of God
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Posted - 2006.08.09 08:08:00 -
[48]
HACs really need a balance pass. Zealot could use 1 more turret and some drone bay. For that matter, ALL HACs should have at least 25 m^3 drone bay to fit 5 light T2 drones to fend off Inties. Those that don't have drone bay get tackled too easily compared to those who don't.
I'd also like to see the Eagle get reworked. Just seems like it's losing it's role to the Rokh. I forsee it becoming an underused ship.
Zealot, Demios, Munnin, Eagle. These HACs could use some work. The Sac still needs a little bit of lovin too now that command ships are out (it's not the be-all end-all of T2 tanks anymore).
-Electrofreak Discoverer of the Missile Damage Formula |
webkert
Amarr Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2006.08.09 14:32:00 -
[49]
If I remember correctly zealots model doesnt support five turrets. But I wouldnt mind a small dronebay.
Eagle wont lose its role to rokh because of tracking. It will still be the best anti-frig sniper.
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Death Kill
Caldari direkte
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Posted - 2006.08.09 14:41:00 -
[50]
The stabbabond will never loose
For the state for the state for the state |
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Deathbarrage
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Posted - 2006.08.09 14:54:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Frools Edited by: Frools on 08/08/2006 22:51:29
Originally by: webkert I found this graph in another thread. The spreadsheet has been modified so the zealot is using five turrets.
zealot vs vaga
that doesnt look right, that might be for a theoretical 5 turret zealot
zealot vs vaga max damage vaga max damage but barrage more sensible vaga vs conflag zealot scorch zealot
problem with this graph is that you used the exact weapons that a zealot uses yet you used 425mm's and a heavy launcher while the usual vaga has 220mm's with a nos
also the reason why 1v1 a vaga won't kill a zealot (unless the zealot is a noob) is cuz of the difference in tank.. Vaga's tank is rather fragile while the zealot's tank is rather stunning. These fights will only happen on sisi tho, on tranq the vaga pilot will just fly off
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Montero
Black Omega Security E.R.A
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Posted - 2006.08.09 14:55:00 -
[52]
Originally by: webkert I found this graph in another thread. The spreadsheet has been modified so the zealot is using five turrets.
zealot vs vaga
That's all well and good apart from 99.9999% of vagas never using 425s, hail, a heavy missile, and for the most part 3 dmg mods. So basicaly yeah if you twist the stats the zealot does come out bad...
I mean if the vaga could fit a doomsday it'd be even higher on that graph. ---------
Scrapheap Challenge |
Frools
Killson Corp
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Posted - 2006.08.09 15:35:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Frools on 09/08/2006 15:36:23
Originally by: Deathbarrage
problem with this graph is that you used the exact weapons that a zealot uses yet you used 425mm's and a heavy launcher while the usual vaga has 220mm's with a nos
also the reason why 1v1 a vaga won't kill a zealot (unless the zealot is a noob) is cuz of the difference in tank.. Vaga's tank is rather fragile while the zealot's tank is rather stunning. These fights will only happen on sisi tho, on tranq the vaga pilot will just fly off
did you even read my post or look at the graph properly, you'll see i included a 220mm vaga with no heavy launcher...
its a comparison of max theoretical damage zealot (which also happens to be a fairly common setup) vs max theoretical damage vaga AND a common setup vaga
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Tassi
Infinitus Odium
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Posted - 2006.08.09 15:37:00 -
[54]
Originally by: Nebuli
What exactly was your point?
That you must be stupid or rich to fly a zealot.
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Dr Fighter
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Posted - 2006.08.09 16:28:00 -
[55]
The other HACs are one trick ponys:
Vagabonds are silly fast, could tank, could do good dmg Deimos' are great dmg dealers, could tank, could go fast Cerb tank well and hav great range and average dmg, could do great dmg, could be fast Zealot (and ishtar to some extent) is the only HAC that can make a resnoble go of doing the main 3 resons to fly a hac, good dmg, range and speed - however will be beat by any other hac using its advantage to teh max.
Of course the BS of the same race setup for close cambat will eat the same races HACs, ppl fly HACs to hit smaller ships hard while staying very mobile.
If you dont like or fly HACs, dont post in the thread , your just trolling otherwise.
And finally the decent HACs are expensive because demand is high and supply is low (after BPO owners hav supplyed their mates and corps etc), and also ppl with the skillz can afford them and are prepared to pay.
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