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n2cthe1
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 13:28:00 -
[1] - Quote
TVP have finally produced a counter( http://thevalhallaproject.info/news.html ) to the ISN proposal. Neither crosses the divide between the two differing incursion philosophies and are probably doomed to fail.
However, could this be what TVP are aiming for? Strange thing to say, you might think, but read on and judge for yourself.
The none-to-subtle approach by the TVP team shows a classic approach to propaganda and manipulation. Will the other communities realise this or will they just see the chance to get back to making iskies? Will they care?
There is nothing new in the recent TVP proposal, it is a rehash of the old differences that have been splitting incursion unity for over 2 years. What is interesting, though, is its insidious nature that seeks to enable TVP to GÇ¥controlGÇ¥ incursions by restricting freedom of other incursion communities. Who do you think will want to lead this expansion of control of incursions? There may be much denial of this but history shows this to be a classic approach.
TVP have been pretty canny with this proposal. I believe they have set it up to fail. Clear in knowledge that it will probably be unacceptable to ISN, TVP are banking on the other incursion communities believing it is a reasonable proposal (dangling the isk-making carrot in front of them, again?).
Why is this important? Well, TVP are desperate to maintain the claim to have the support of the entire incursion community (excluding ISN of course). This is line they constantly repeat in their channel. However, this does not seem to reflect reality.
What is actually behind all of this? Well, more than one of the other incursion communities has indicated that TVP have strived, but ultimately failed, to match ISN. They theorise that this inferiority seems to be at the core of the problem. One suggested that TVP see ISN as their nemesis and this was the ultimate reason for their collective psychosis (his words, not mine).
Have TVP engaged in a great piece of propaganda manipulation to finally make themselves look better than ISN? They must know their proposal will be unpalatable to ISN but they must be hoping that the other incursion communities will not see this.
If they succeed they may be scratching that itch that is their nemesis. If they fail in this attempt, their psychosis could worsen. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1213
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 20:01:00 -
[2] - Quote
n2cthe1 wrote:TVP have finally produced a counter( http://thevalhallaproject.info/news.html ) to the ISN proposal. Neither crosses the divide between the two differing incursion philosophies and are probably doomed to fail. However, could this be what TVP are aiming for? Strange thing to say, you might think, but read on and judge for yourself. The none-to-subtle approach by the TVP team shows a classic approach to propaganda and manipulation. Will the other communities realise this or will they just see the chance to get back to making iskies? Will they care? There is nothing new in the recent TVP proposal, it is a rehash of the old differences that have been splitting incursion unity for over 2 years. What is interesting, though, is its insidious nature that seeks to enable TVP to GÇ¥controlGÇ¥ incursions by restricting freedom of other incursion communities. Who do you think will want to lead this expansion of control of incursions? There may be much denial of this but history shows this to be a classic approach. TVP have been pretty canny with this proposal. I believe they have set it up to fail. Clear in knowledge that it will probably be unacceptable to ISN, TVP are banking on the other incursion communities believing it is a reasonable proposal (dangling the isk-making carrot in front of them, again?). Why is this important? Well, TVP are desperate to maintain the claim to have the support of the entire incursion community (excluding ISN of course). This is line they constantly repeat in their channel. However, this does not seem to reflect reality. What is actually behind all of this? Well, more than one of the other incursion communities has indicated that TVP have strived, but ultimately failed, to match ISN. They theorise that this inferiority seems to be at the core of the problem. One suggested that TVP see ISN as their nemesis and this was the ultimate reason for their collective psychosis (his words, not mine). Have TVP engaged in a great piece of propaganda manipulation to finally make themselves look better than ISN? They must know their proposal will be unpalatable to ISN but they must be hoping that the other incursion communities will not see this. If they succeed they may be scratching that itch that is their nemesis. If they fail in this attempt, their psychosis could worsen.
When ISN started griefing Inncursion runners I wardec'ed them multiple times only to have them swap corps multiple times. TVP didn't want in on it and wasn't strong enough to win the contests. I was already flying with Summer most of the time, who was wining the contests Vs. ISN half of the time anyway, so ISN focused their griefing on TVP.
I don't believe in Karma but poetic justice prevails IMHO. Now they are all crying and making less money.
Oreos dipped in tears for the win. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
AssandTits
University of Caille Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 20:17:00 -
[3] - Quote
Daisy "Never found the bottom of a booze bottle I didn't like" Cutter basically needs to stop trying to claim the moral high ground and just admit TVP has turned into a griefing community. Anyone who still follow this bunch of idiots needs serious mental health treatment. |
n2cthe1
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 20:26:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ciper Jones: Your language strongly points to you being from the TVP channel. That is not a problem but there is a bias showing.
I have no doubt that any ISN input would be just as biased from their perspective.
Really, it is the independent view that would be the most informative here. In reality, I doubt there are any truly independent views, but c'est la vie.
Just as an example of some differing perspectives:
TVP's view of griefing = ISN's view of contesting
TVPs' view of tears = ISN's view of discussions
Both communities are convinced the other is suffering most and losing more people. |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29566
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 20:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Would have helped a lot if you had just posted a brief summary of the proposal and the reason why you don't like it instead of going off on a long winded rant.
My personal opinion - ISN has always seemed shady to me, going back to when they first posted in this sub-forum asking for bling ship fits to join when griefer Logistic ships were infiltrating fleets and not repping it's members. Due to the timing and current events, it definitely appeared to be a set up, a trap to lure in unsuspecting players.
What I find interesting now is the fact that during the DDoS attacks, ISN didn't get disconnected and used the attacks to steal a bunch of loot from destroyed player ships, then when everyone came back on line, gloated and bragged about it in local chat.
A far as I'm concerned, if TVP is now giving ISN trouble, then I say more power to TVP.
Also I see nothing wrong with the TVP Proposal.
DMC
Quote:Proposal for fellow Incursion Runners to consider 26.9.2014 TVP Leadership and the FC team
TVP would like to thank our pilots and the communities at large who helped us along in this long and hard road taken by us. We also would like to apologize to people who were drastically affected by this stance. We hope that this agreement establishes an honorable code of conduct for incursions to ensure a better future for all incursion communities. As history has taught us progress and evolution can't be made without strife. We also would like to thank the people who assisted our fleets during the DDoS attacks and helped in recovering the loot.
Moving forward we would like to present the agreement that we fervently hope will be acceptable for all the incursion communities.
1. The Kundalini Manifest is to be off limits to all groups until the time that the incursion hits withdrawal, unless all communities unanimously agree to kill the incursion to ensure a better spawn spread.
2. Following the previous line of thought we hope all the HQ capable communities are willing to accept a MOM rotation so that everyone gets a fair share. In the event that a community is not able to form up at withdrawal they can request help from other communities with the MOM loot going to the community whoGÇÖs turn it is.
3. To try and prevent overcrowding in HQ's nowadays it would help for communities to split themselves into 2 groups and farm those incursions separately. For example: communities that have been historically at odds separate themselves from each other to alleviate tension.
4. Expanding the currently existing channel from just leadership and diplomats to all fleet commanders from all the communities. This will help clear away a lot of confusion and misinformation with a much more open line of communication. In the event of a mass disconnect, this will also help with getting the necessary help to pilots who have lost their ship.
5. With the current contest-driven environment it is desired that contests be given a fair chance. But no community may follow a fleet around after winning a contest. The winning fleet will chose the next site and head out to it. The losing fleet may head to the same site with the understanding that they agree to be re-contested.
We at TVP hope that this agreement is deemed acceptable for all communities as it addresses most of the points that, historically, issues have stemmed from. We will strife to work together with all other communities in the future with a more open dialogue so that such misunderstandings do not reoccur.
Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29566
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 20:37:00 -
[6] - Quote
Double post.
Damn forums have also become really messed up due to those DDoS attacks.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
n2cthe1
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 20:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Valid points all.
A subject that certainly polarises opinion, for those that care about incursions anyway.
It must be said that most of the other incursion communities hold little love for ISN. However, equally important to note is that whatever support for this action TVP thought they had, from other communities, appears to fast be evaporating.
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DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29566
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 21:00:00 -
[8] - Quote
n2cthe1 wrote: It must be said that most of the other incursion communities hold little love for ISN. However, equally important to note is that whatever support for this action TVP thought they had, from other communities, appears to fast be evaporating.
You sure about that?
DMC
Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
n2cthe1
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 21:19:00 -
[9] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:n2cthe1 wrote: It must be said that most of the other incursion communities hold little love for ISN. However, equally important to note is that whatever support for this action TVP thought they had, from other communities, appears to fast be evaporating.
You sure about that?DMC
Sure? of course not. There are no concrete answers in this. What has been postulated could be wildly inaccurate. Conversely, it could be completely accurate. After all, people put different interpretations on the same events, depending on their viewpoint.
Nevertheless, what appears to be clear is that the individuals outside of TVP and ISN are becoming tired of the situation. |
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ISD Ezwal
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
2379
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 23:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
I have removed some rule breaking posts and those quoting them. As always I let some edge cases stay.
The Rules: 4. Personal attacks are prohibited.
Commonly known as flaming, personal attacks are posts that are designed to personally berate or insult another forum user. Posts of this nature are not beneficial to the community spirit that CCP promote and as such they will not be tolerated.
ISD Ezwal Vice Admiral Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs) Interstellar Services Department |
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Caleidascope
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
559
|
Posted - 2014.09.27 23:58:00 -
[11] - Quote
n2cthe1 wrote:Valid points all.
A subject that certainly polarises opinion, for those that care about incursions anyway.
It must be said that most of the other incursion communities hold little love for ISN. However, equally important to note is that whatever support for this action TVP thought they had, from other communities, appears to fast be evaporating.
From Imperial Shipment... IS... Where are you hiding N?
Life is short and dinner time is chancy Eat dessert first! |
Durzo Hard
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 03:06:00 -
[12] - Quote
My take on it is this.
Let them continue to try and get one up on each other. I'm tired of their bullshit and I'm going back to other things to make isk. It's not worth the hassle. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1215
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 05:33:00 -
[13] - Quote
Quote:Ciper Jones: Your language strongly points to you being from the TVP channel. That is not a problem but there is a bias showing.
Perhaps, but not mine. I don't hang out with any of them anymore. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
n2cthe1
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 07:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
Caleidascope wrote:n2cthe1 wrote:Valid points all.
A subject that certainly polarises opinion, for those that care about incursions anyway.
It must be said that most of the other incursion communities hold little love for ISN. However, equally important to note is that whatever support for this action TVP thought they had, from other communities, appears to fast be evaporating.
From Imperial Shipment... IS... Where are you hiding N?
lol, nice one, I hadn't made that connection |
Dato Koppla
Elite Guards
689
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 11:58:00 -
[15] - Quote
Wow the drama never ends. |
PopplerRo
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 13:30:00 -
[16] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:
When ISN started griefing Inncursion runners I wardec'ed them multiple times only to have them swap corps multiple times. TVP didn't want in on it and wasn't strong enough to win the contests. I was already flying with Summer most of the time, who was wining the contests Vs. ISN half of the time anyway, so ISN focused their griefing on TVP.
I don't believe in Karma but poetic justice prevails IMHO. Now they are all crying and making less money.
Oreos dipped in tears for the win.
Summer community was actually dead before ISN began doing HQ sites
DeMichael Crimson wrote:..
What I find interesting now is the fact that during the DDoS attacks, ISN didn't get disconnected and used the attacks to steal a bunch of loot from destroyed player ships, then when everyone came back on line, gloated and bragged about it in local chat.
ISN did lose ships, substantially more valuable than tvp's. And yes ISN must be devs how else could they log in if no one else could. T20 mk2 |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
476
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 18:28:00 -
[17] - Quote
PopplerRo wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:..
What I find interesting now is the fact that during the DDoS attacks, ISN didn't get disconnected and used the attacks to steal a bunch of loot from destroyed player ships, then when everyone came back on line, gloated and bragged about it in local chat.
ISN did lose ships, substantially more valuable than tvp's. And yes ISN must be devs how else could they log in if no one else could. T20 mk2
You do realize how a DDoS attack works right? Just because one group of players got DC'd doesn't mean all players get DC'd. It all depends on how the DDoS attack was orchestrated and what it targeted on the network. I've seen players DC during these while I was fine, and then have the situation reverse during the next event. Put the tinfoil hattery away.
All ISN did was take advantage of a bad situation. Was it right? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? It is just spaceship pixels. Once you start taking this game too seriously, then maybe it is time to step away from it for awhile. |
PopplerRo
21
|
Posted - 2014.09.28 21:36:00 -
[18] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:PopplerRo wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:..
...
ISN did lose ships, substantially more valuable than tvp's. And yes ISN must be devs how else could they log in if no one else could. T20 mk2 You do realize how a DDoS attack works right? Just because one group of players got DC'd doesn't mean all players get DC'd. It all depends on how the DDoS attack was orchestrated and what it targeted on the network. I've seen players DC during these while I was fine, and then have the situation reverse during the next event. Put the tinfoil hattery away. ..
I had assumed it was obvious I was being facetious, I guess not |
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University Minmatar Republic
29682
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 02:45:00 -
[19] - Quote
Estella Osoka wrote:PopplerRo wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:..
What I find interesting now is the fact that during the DDoS attacks, ISN didn't get disconnected and used the attacks to steal a bunch of loot from destroyed player ships, then when everyone came back on line, gloated and bragged about it in local chat.
ISN did lose ships, substantially more valuable than tvp's. And yes ISN must be devs how else could they log in if no one else could. T20 mk2 You do realize how a DDoS attack works right? Just because one group of players got DC'd doesn't mean all players get DC'd. It all depends on how the DDoS attack was orchestrated and what it targeted on the network. I've seen players DC during these while I was fine, and then have the situation reverse during the next event. Put the tinfoil hattery away. All ISN did was take advantage of a bad situation. Was it right? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? It is just spaceship pixels. Once you start taking this game too seriously, then maybe it is time to step away from it for awhile. First of all, if the situation was reversed both of you would obviously care and probably be demanding restitution.
Secondly, how do you know ISN suffered a lot more loss than TVP did from the DDoS attacks? The statements seem to indicate differently. Please link your proof.
Anyway it doesn't really matter. Obviously the server wasn't operating correctly so consequently that should negate any loss or gains acquired during that time for everyone game wide. Yes I agree this is a game. Games have rules and this one has rules against exploitation. Plain and simple, ISN exploited the situation when the server was under DDoS attack.
Personally I don't give a rats arse what either of you say. There's been way too many shady backroom deals done in this game to ignore so don't tell me to put the tinfoil hattery away. Now if you believe otherwise, then you're really naive. Seems to me you're the ones who need to step back from the game for a while.
DMC Faction Standing Repair Plan | California Eve Players | (Proposal) Bring Back 'The Endless Battle' Missions |
RonPaul Rox
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
47
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 02:46:00 -
[20] - Quote
n2cthe1 wrote:Ciper Jones: Your language strongly points to you being from the TVP channel. That is not a problem but there is a bias showing. I have no doubt that any ISN input would be just as biased from their perspective. Really, it is the independent view that would be the most informative here. In reality, I doubt there are any truly independent views, but c'est la vie. Just as an example of some differing perspectives: TVP's view of griefing = ISN's view of contesting TVPs' view of tears = ISN's view of discussions Although, TVP trolling = ISN trolling Both communities are convinced the other is suffering most and losing more people.
you sound a lot like an ISN member. http://imgur.com/EGjYLSL
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n2cthe1
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
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Posted - 2014.09.29 06:35:00 -
[21] - Quote
RonPaul Rox wrote:n2cthe1 wrote:Ciper Jones: Your language strongly points to you being from the TVP channel. That is not a problem but there is a bias showing. I have no doubt that any ISN input would be just as biased from their perspective. Really, it is the independent view that would be the most informative here. In reality, I doubt there are any truly independent views, but c'est la vie. Just as an example of some differing perspectives: TVP's view of griefing = ISN's view of contesting TVPs' view of tears = ISN's view of discussions Although, TVP trolling = ISN trolling Both communities are convinced the other is suffering most and losing more people. you sound a lot like an ISN member.
Really? That's disappointing. You don't think this is a centre view of what's happened?
I have carefully avoided using the emotive language of either party, merely looking at the motivation.
Do you not think the examples of the perspectives above are correct? It is only what I have heard in both channels.
In answer to your question: I PvP; although, I haven't been active very much lately. |
Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
1215
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 08:39:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:Summer community was actually dead before ISN began doing HQ sites
They were quite alive when ISN started contesting every site and popping moms. Accounts may not be used for business purposes. Access to the System and playing EVE is intended for your personal entertainment, enjoyment and recreation, and not for corporate, business, commercial or income-seeking activities.-á |
n2cthe1
Imperial Shipment Amarr Empire
4
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 11:08:00 -
[23] - Quote
As an aside, I flew with Summer. Can't remember if it was their FC or a group before Summer, but one of the FC's was very good. Wish i could remember his name, too long ago :-( |
ImaBaus Sukarala
Forsaken Assets
0
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 13:16:00 -
[24] - Quote
God I wish we could just round up a bunch of corps, start a high sec conglomerate, and pay someone like NOIR to make the TvP's life miserable. I'm not saying they don't have a reason to be miffed, but taking it out on the community en masse is messed up. Keep in mind I am a new player (I've been playing for two months now). I literally just finished training and fitting out my incursion alt just in time for this drama to start. I just want to make some ISK, can't we all just get along???? |
Seraphiel Angelica
Advanced Engineering and Research Division
2
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
TVP do not play well with others. |
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
800
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 14:35:00 -
[26] - Quote
I left ISN when all the mom popping started the very first time a few years ago.
Here's the situation:
1. TVP gets contested and loses.
2. ISN follows them to every site they go to and beat them basically every time.
3. TVP gets p!ssed and pops the mom.
4. ISN assumes their going to do it again so they contest the mom or pop it themselves.
5. TVP rage pops moms so ISN is shut down entirely.
The exact same situation has repeated itself about 3 or 4 times throughout the years.
The TLDR from a set of uncaring, unbiased eyes:
TVP takes new players and is less efficient. ISN trolls them. TVP gets mad. Everyone suffers.
On a more personal note, I laughed my ass off while we were rofl stomping TVP in HQ sites. I also felt TVP was justified for rage popping the moms, I'd be p!ssed too.
Both parties are at fault, both are acting like kids playing a video game, its all legit in EVE, let the drama continue. Not today spaghetti. |
Estella Osoka
Perkone Caldari State
476
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 15:26:00 -
[27] - Quote
DeMichael Crimson wrote:Estella Osoka wrote:PopplerRo wrote:DeMichael Crimson wrote:..
What I find interesting now is the fact that during the DDoS attacks, ISN didn't get disconnected and used the attacks to steal a bunch of loot from destroyed player ships, then when everyone came back on line, gloated and bragged about it in local chat.
ISN did lose ships, substantially more valuable than tvp's. And yes ISN must be devs how else could they log in if no one else could. T20 mk2 You do realize how a DDoS attack works right? Just because one group of players got DC'd doesn't mean all players get DC'd. It all depends on how the DDoS attack was orchestrated and what it targeted on the network. I've seen players DC during these while I was fine, and then have the situation reverse during the next event. Put the tinfoil hattery away. All ISN did was take advantage of a bad situation. Was it right? Maybe, maybe not. Who cares? It is just spaceship pixels. Once you start taking this game too seriously, then maybe it is time to step away from it for awhile. First of all, if the situation was reversed both of you would obviously care and probably be demanding restitution. Secondly, how do you know ISN suffered a lot more loss than TVP did from the DDoS attacks? The statements seem to indicate differently. Please link your proof. Anyway it doesn't really matter. Obviously the server wasn't operating correctly so consequently that should negate any loss or gains acquired during that time for everyone game wide. Yes I agree this is a game. Games have rules and this one has rules against exploitation. Plain and simple, ISN exploited the situation when the server was under DDoS attack. Personally I don't give a rats arse what either of you say. There's been way too many shady backroom deals done in this game to ignore so don't tell me to put the tinfoil hattery away. Now if you believe otherwise, then you're really naive. Seems to me you're the ones who need to step back from the game for a while. DMC
I never said ISN suffered any loss. Someone else said that. I said ISN took advantage of the situation. If I was in that situation where I could go in and complete the site and take the loot that was left, then I would. There is nothing in the game mechanics that prevent you from looting other people's wrecks, except for the risk of going suspect. If a person is willing to take that risk, then so be it.
BTW, my first paragraph is illustrating a generalized situation I have seen while flying in a non-incursion fleet.
I don't do Incursions anymore. I find them more boring than mining.
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Kamii OhnoKazii
Target Valhalla Project
6
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 19:59:00 -
[28] - Quote
I am just waiting to see when TVP tries to pop a mom on the island, I understand much ganking will commence. Don't hate me because i'm digitally augmented...-á
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Tarpedo
Incursionista
1383
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 21:54:00 -
[29] - Quote
For me it's amazing how TVP is still consider ISN an entity and "incursion community" despite ISN's newest ~0 ISK/month (!) income rate (more than a month passed since their last effective HQ farm). From the look of things ISN now isn't any more of incursion community than TEST for example - TEST also makes 0 ISK/month from incursions.
If incursions (and income from them) were actual points of ISN's existence then they'd reform and start to farm weeks ago but instead they prove on daily basis money isn't their goal, they look like dedicated griefing company rather than a business - and as long as they'll continue to provoke TVP I'll support TVP's sanctions (anyway I can make ISK in TVP fleets out of ISN's prime time hehe)
p.s. dear devs, how about 6-12 hours incursion respawn time instead of 12-36 hours? |
Kamii OhnoKazii
Target Valhalla Project
6
|
Posted - 2014.09.29 23:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
Tarpedo wrote:For me it's amazing how TVP is still consider ISN an entity and "incursion community" despite ISN's newest ~0 ISK/month (!) income rate (more than a month passed since their last effective HQ farm). From the look of things ISN now isn't any more of incursion community than TEST for example - TEST also makes 0 ISK/month from incursions.
If incursions (and income from them) were actual points of ISN's existence then they'd reform and start to farm weeks ago but instead they prove on daily basis money isn't their goal, they look like dedicated griefing company rather than a business - and as long as they'll continue to provoke TVP I'll support TVP's sanctions (anyway I can make ISK in TVP fleets out of ISN's prime time hehe)
p.s. dear devs, how about 6-12 hours incursion respawn time instead of 12-36 hours?
I wouldn't count them out. The inside joke about this drama is "TVP: The Vacation Project" - ISN is still very much alive, and people are just relaxing if they don't need the ISK, and the few that might need it or want to fly are flying with every other community and adding to their ISK per hour with shiney fits... say what you will about ISN if you are a hater, they run good fleets and the pilots know their ****... I have seen that ISN pilots get a immediate pick-up in fleets wanting to make ISK in an evening... before, as they say "the TVPricks pop the mom again".
ISN is a band of people who run fleets and then there is a secondary that are in and out, but the primary... very, very much alive and relaxing it out.... sorry Juli, but fail again... hehe. Don't hate me because i'm digitally augmented...-á
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