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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:38:00 -
[1]
Here's a new one (i hope - if not sorry to the original thinker):
Whenever the server goes down its recorded for however long its down (this might? include normal DT)
Whenever it comes back up players receive skill time!(tm) skill time!(tm) can be applied to any skill currently in your character sheet by right clicking (apply all (or) apply x amount (where you type in x amount)). Skill time!(tm) can be saved up and used whenever you want and would be shown in char sheet under skills as: "Skill time!(tm) saved)".
You cannot ever buy more time, or sell or trade it. It can only ever be given by the automatic system for downtime (maybe not scheduled DT? but maybe so!).
While it would make up for players that had short skills training during that time, it would also reward those training longer skills.
Skill time!(tm) would of course be directly proportional to the time the server was down 1:1.
Why? 1. If server crashes players at least get something good out of it. 2. It's much easier and fairer than isk/RL isk reimbursment which i think has happened on occasion before? 3. Why not?
Lastly to clarify - If you have alts on the same account, skill time!(tm) would only be given to the alt currently training and cannot be transferred to other alts/accounts same as everyone else.
Other uses: skill time!(tm) (now going to be referred to as ST! (cos i cant be bothered typing it anymore and it could be getting lame (might have been to start with)) ... 1. ST! could be given out as a christmas present by CCP, maybe like 10 hour gift or something. (it doesn't discriminate between older and newer players)
2. It could be REMOVED from an account (if they have some saved), by GM's, if the person is caught doing something naughty, like logon traps/lag traps. Exploits ect.
3. If you saved up a weeks worth and decided you wanted a new toy that required a week long skill you could apply it all and voila! (obviously it would take a while to save up a weeks worth of ST! because CCP and the GM's are soooo good at keeping the server going 24/7 (well, 23.5/7 usually)
REPLY AND COMMENT!
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Michiyo Daishi
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:42:00 -
[2]
sounds like its going to be a lot of abuse for such things, not to mention another database to keep the award time logged so it can be removed.
Considering the talk of database problems, I dont think it's smart, or feasable. -
*posts posted are not official statements of EVEnews.com, and are the poster's own* |
Zorai Miraden
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:47:00 -
[3]
I like the idea. But it would require more rescources, more programing, bug testing ect...
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Ashis
Celestial Horizon Corp. Ascendant Frontier
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:48:00 -
[4]
I'm not going to pretend to know the inner workings of Eve and comment on how difficult this would be from a programmatic angle (and join with me in a good laugh at all the MCSEs who do!).
BUT - from a the angle that I am sitting here, it's 1am, I have to be up in 5 hours, and all I want to do is change a skill that completed 30 minutes ago...
This is a GREAT idea. __________
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 04:56:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Ashis I'm not going to pretend to know the inner workings of Eve and comment on how difficult this would be from a programmatic angle (and join with me in a good laugh at all the MCSEs who do!).
BUT - from a the angle that I am sitting here, it's 1am, I have to be up in 5 hours, and all I want to do is change a skill that completed 30 minutes ago...
This is a GREAT idea.
lol
And to the above posters ^ yes it might be some extra coding, maybe not that hard though. And also if they can figure out a way to move the forums to a dif server than the game, then maybe put the skill time tracker on it as well. IMHO the game cluster should run ONLY the game. |
Eternal Fury
Caldari Brotherhood of Light
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Posted - 2006.08.08 05:03:00 -
[6]
I think a better fix would be the Skill Cue that we were told is going to be implemented some time.
That way we could train a single long lvl 5 skill as well as those short skills.
So say I'm training Battle Ship lvl 5, which is like 20 or 40 days or something, and I'm also training say... Drones lvl 2 becuase I never knew how usefull they were till I saw a friend use them.
Then if the server goes down, instead of Drones lvl 2 finishing and your char going idle, it would continue on with BS lvl 5.
This to ME would be a better "fix" for unsheduled downtimes. But that's just me.
Brotherhood of Light. Small Corp, Big Fun. Wanna join? |
Cleveland Steam
Neverland Ranch Hands
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Posted - 2006.08.08 06:35:00 -
[7]
I would not opt for something to make things even more complicated. Though I like what you have to say, I think its in a way unreasonable.
A queue would be better. Like a 1 skill deep queue? Fetus Balloon?
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
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Posted - 2006.08.08 07:17:00 -
[8]
I like another poster above think the easiest solution both for the devs and players would be just to have a skill queue.
Have it where you could have 3 skills in queue, 3 because that's enough to cover work times and such, but not so much it could be heavily abused by folks setting a queue then not paying their account :). ( Or just have the queue cleared when you cancel ).
Galactic Express Recruitment Post
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Alliaanna Dalaii
Gallente Does Not Compute
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Posted - 2006.08.08 07:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua I like another poster above think the easiest solution both for the devs and players would be just to have a skill queue.
Have it where you could have 3 skills in queue, 3 because that's enough to cover work times and such, but not so much it could be heavily abused by folks setting a queue then not paying their account :). ( Or just have the queue cleared when you cancel ).
How would that not be abused ?
Great, I can leave my alt account for 3 months while not paying for it and then come back to have Battleship 5 / HaC 5 and Recon ship 5 Brilliant
The idea isn't a bad one, But I dont think its needed.. Your Sp still trains while the server is down. If you didn't set a long skill training I'm afraid I have to say Boo Hoo
Alliaanna DNC Treasure Hunt !!
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Whelan Iskander
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Posted - 2006.08.08 09:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Alliaanna Dalaii
How would that not be abused . Your Sp still trains while the server is down. If you didn't set a long skill training I'm afraid I have to say Boo Hoo Alliaanna
Great, so I should never train those 30 minute skills, because if the server goes down (read 'crashes'), I'm just 'boo-hoo'???
Happened to me with the last crash, training and finishing some last minute skills, server goes *BOOM*, and my skill-training time as well...
Well, suits me right for training up on leadership skill lvl 1 I guess...
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Cheyenne Shadowborn
Caldari Citizens of E.A.R.T.H. E.A.R.T.H. Federation
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Posted - 2006.08.08 10:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Michiyo Daishi sounds like its going to be a lot of abuse for such things, not to mention another database to keep the award time logged so it can be removed.
Considering the talk of database problems, I dont think it's smart, or feasable.
What database problems?
Though I don't quite understand what you mean, even if your mssql server goes down with the cluster then you have a network monitoring system *cough www.nagios.org* and once the feature for applying saved skill time is implemented in the GUI, all it takes is an sql command such as (pseudocode) "insert into characters values saved_time=2 hours where blah". --
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:02:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
Originally by: Michiyo Daishi sounds like its going to be a lot of abuse for such things, not to mention another database to keep the award time logged so it can be removed.
Considering the talk of database problems, I dont think it's smart, or feasable.
What database problems?
Though I don't quite understand what you mean, even if your mssql server goes down with the cluster then you have a network monitoring system *cough www.nagios.org* and once the feature for applying saved skill time is implemented in the GUI, all it takes is an sql command such as (pseudocode) "insert into characters values saved_time=2 hours where blah".
No idea what you're talking about but it looks fairly simple and i like it!
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Kornelia Shedim
Amarr Nightghosts Inc
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:10:00 -
[13]
I don't understand why people think that they are entitled to compensation when the server goes down at all. You don't lose any skill points unless you didn't have a skill training when it went down, and you can't really expect CCP to compensate you for your own mistake.
A server crash is always a risk with any MMOG and CCP has never guarenteed the availability of the server.
In fact, item 12 in the EULA clearly states this:
Quote: 12. NO WARRANTIES The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
The current system IMHO is fine as it is. Always make sure you have a skill going that will cover the time you plan to be out-of-game and always set a very long skill when patches are being applied as the unexpected ussually happens.
-------------------------- Kornelia Shedim Gringo Extrodinaire |
eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:17:00 -
[14]
Edited by: eLLioTT wave on 08/08/2006 11:18:11
Originally by: Kornelia Shedim I don't understand why people think that they are entitled to compensation when the server goes down at all. You don't lose any skill points unless you didn't have a skill training when it went down, and you can't really expect CCP to compensate you for your own mistake.
A server crash is always a risk with any MMOG and CCP has never guarenteed the availability of the server.
In fact, item 12 in the EULA clearly states this:
Quote: 12. NO WARRANTIES The Software, System, Game and all Game Content, and all other services and material provided in connection therewith, are provided "AS IS," with all faults, and without warranty of any kind. You assume all risk of use and all risk associated with accessing the System and playing the Game.
CCP disclaims all warranties, whether express or implied, including without limitation the warranties of merchantability, fitness for particular purpose and non-infringement. There is no warranty against interference with your enjoyment of the Game. CCP does not warrant that the operation of the System or your access to the System, or that your use of the Software, will be uninterrupted or error-free, nor that the System or Software will be compatible with your hardware and software.
While CCP attempts to have the System available at most times, CCP does not guarantee that the System will always be available, or that the System will not become unavailable during Game play. The System may become unavailable for a number of reasons, including without limitation during the performance of maintenance to the System, for the implementation of new software, for emergency situations and due to equipment or telecommunications failures.
The current system IMHO is fine as it is. Always make sure you have a skill going that will cover the time you plan to be out-of-game and always set a very long skill when patches are being applied as the unexpected ussually happens.
That is all well and good but we are referring to crashes such as today during the middle of the day, how can you ALWAYS have a long skill training if theres short skills to train also?
My point is, in the past CCP have (to my understanding) compensated people for their next monthly bill. I understand that to be INCREDIBLY complicated for them to do and would cost more than everyone got back just to organise.
This skilltime system adds something new to the game and if DT was included you would get 1 hour a day (approx) of skill time to spend where you want.
Also encourages CCP to have early DT's but if they are late the players dont whine on the forums and if there's a crash you get a lot less whines cos everyones getting skilltime! (this is on top of what you're already training if you had a skill training during the crash)
I cant see any problems so long as it NEVER becomes something that can be bought/sold traded between char's /accounts. |
Sulavan
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:18:00 -
[15]
If the queue length was time related rather than number of skills related, then I'd say the skill queue was a great idea.
3 skills in a queue could allow you to set 6 months worth of training or more and never log in again. Which begs for abuse.
Setting it to something like 24/48/72 hours or something like that, means that manual intervention is needed on a pretty regular basis. Personally I like the 24 hour limit for queues as this covers work/sleep/DT hours completely (and if a DT goes on for more than 24 hours then we have a very special case for which you should even attempt to write a system to cover). If you have a long skill running and its going to run out during sleep/work hours, then you only need to long in within 24 hours of it completing to queue up another skill. Abuse is minimised, benefit is profound, people still need to log in... everyoneÆs a winner!
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Luigi Thirty
Caldari FIRMA Interstellar Alcohol Conglomerate
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:18:00 -
[16]
I wholeheartedly endorse this idea with the 20 hours of skill training I've lost today.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:19:00 -
[17]
So basicly I would get awarded ST even if I wasn't playing at the time of the crash. Eg the server crashes during night-time at my place, I'm sleeping and wake up to getting a 2 hour extra ST to use - great, but unfair imo as I get rewarded while not being affected by it compared to the pilot who missed his Storyline bonus since the servers went down in the middle of his mission.
A good idea though but it needs to be implemented in another way.
/c
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Sulavan
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:23:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Sulavan on 08/08/2006 11:23:57
Originally by: eLLioTT wave That is all well and good but we are referring to crashes such as today during the middle of the day, how can you ALWAYS have a long skill training if theres short skills to train also?
My point is, in the past CCP have (to my understanding) compensated people for their next monthly bill. I understand that to be INCREDIBLY complicated for them to do and would cost more than everyone got back just to organise.
This skilltime system adds something new to the game and if DT was included you would get 1 hour a day (approx) of skill time to spend where you want.
Also encourages CCP to have early DT's but if they are late the players dont whine on the forums and if there's a crash you get a lot less whines cos everyones getting skilltime! (this is on top of what you're already training if you had a skill training during the crash)
I cant see any problems so long as it NEVER becomes something that can be bought/sold traded between char's /accounts.
I don't think it would work that way. As those who had a skill running through out the DT are rewarded as well as those who did not, players would see themselves as losing out as they did not gain double training time (reward + normal training) and the whiners would be back here again. Nothing changed, just an additional admin headache.
edit to sort out quote tags
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PeopleDamager
Minmatar Total Failure
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:38:00 -
[19]
logon traps/lag traps are no exploit.
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Sulavan
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Cheyenne Shadowborn
What database problems?
Though I don't quite understand what you mean, even if your mssql server goes down with the cluster then you have a network monitoring system *cough www.nagios.org* and once the feature for applying saved skill time is implemented in the GUI, all it takes is an sql command such as (pseudocode) "insert into characters values saved_time=2 hours where blah".
just for reference, SQL Server 2005 comes with this sort of thing built in. 2 SQL Server boxes set for working with a 3rd set as monitor. Valar's posts about the DB problems already suggest this is in place (he invoked a manual failover in order to back up the transaction logs, so one assumes there is a monitoring server in there as well just in case he's on the loo when it needs to happen )
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eLLioTT wave
Art of War
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Posted - 2006.08.08 11:58:00 -
[21]
@ Chribba and @ Sulavan
Both very valid points i hadn't thought of, thanks for bringing them up. In this case, perhaps ST are only awarded when a skill ISNT in training during DT/crashes. So if you have a skill that finishes during a crash, from the time it finished to time the server comes back up is the ST you are awarded?
But i really like the idea of everyone getting ST during DT no matter what :P adds something new to the game without (Imho) unbalancing. Yes it would mean everyone gets 3-7 ST hours per week, but makes training super long things slightly less boring. Imaging you save up 20 hours and choose to finish a long skill 20 hours early?
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