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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
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Posted - 2014.10.01 15:57:00 -
[61] - Quote
Steppa Musana wrote: With that said, an argument can be made that game balance is better achieved by having rats attack the PVPer, thereby promoting players to feel a bit safer to PVE which ultimately leads to more content on a non-solo scale. It's not an argument I'd agree with, but it is one I guess.
well, you're right. its a content on non-solo scale but for gangs of blops, who's planting afk-cloaking fishing cynos everywhere. Your pick whether you wish a solo roaming bomber or a cyno ship roaming or even afking in your local forever.
Since it got too hard to break a ratter solo due to silly rat aggro mechanics, cyno play and hotdrops are promoted a lot more than anything else, which sucks for both sides. I enjoy a solo roaming more than jumping 25 Blops on a raven, on ratters part dealing with a single bomber is for sure more promising than dealing with 25 blops or even 25 bridged bombers. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
111
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Posted - 2014.10.01 16:07:00 -
[62] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: It's not that it was not dumb, it was only never changing target at all no matter the situation. Now the rats check what is on field and choose a target based on that.
wait a second.. so suddenly they arent dumb anymore as others were telling the whole thread long? Frostys Virpio wrote: A stealth bomber is an easy kill so they go for it when there is one on grid. Why would they keep shooting at a target which has been succesfull in tanking all their damage for what probably amount to a few minutes without breaking?
why would they try to kill a new guy, who might be helping them to break the battleship who slaughtered them for hours? Frostys Virpio wrote:Might as well try to kill the new guy who just arrived, maybe they will finally destroy something. You want them to continue doing something that didn't work for a few minutes in the hope that a capsuler might help them when the vast majority of capsulers prefer to kill them. I wonder how "dumb" this is... I too rush to break something unrelated after failing on my true goal. very smart indeed. btw. this isnt primarily about the lore but rather about the gameplay mechanics. Rats spoiling player kills arent right and bring too much safety into 0.0.
They are dumb in that they don't distinguish between friend and foe. that's why your standings to them dont matter, they KOS everyone. They are not dumb to the extent that they focus on targets they can kill. They don't care if someone is there to "help" or "hurt" them, they just pick the easiest or most dangerous target or whatever. There is no reason to make it easier to suicide gank people running missions...."allying" with the rats is not a mechanic the game is designed around....to do it and keep balance you would need to buff CONCORD response times...and I'm sure that would get a whole lot of love. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
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Posted - 2014.10.01 16:12:00 -
[63] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: They are dumb in that they don't distinguish between friend and foe. that's why your standings to them dont matter, they KOS everyone. They are not dumb to the extent that they focus on targets they can kill. They don't care if someone is there to "help" or "hurt" them, they just pick the easiest or most dangerous target or whatever. There is no reason to make it easier to suicide gank people running missions...."allying" with the rats is not a mechanic the game is designed around....to do it and keep balance you would need to buff CONCORD response times...and I'm sure that would get a whole lot of love.
ah ok, so in other words, they are just dumb enough to support your reasoning in matter but not too dumb that this whole lore argument would get nuked. GOT IT ;)
Like I said, its not about the lore but rather gameplay reasons. Having rats protecting the ratter makes ratting backwaters too secure from intruders (aside of cyno drops ofc). |
Frostys Virpio
The Mjolnir Bloc The Bloc
1273
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Posted - 2014.10.01 16:44:00 -
[64] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Veers Belvar wrote: They are dumb in that they don't distinguish between friend and foe. that's why your standings to them dont matter, they KOS everyone. They are not dumb to the extent that they focus on targets they can kill. They don't care if someone is there to "help" or "hurt" them, they just pick the easiest or most dangerous target or whatever. There is no reason to make it easier to suicide gank people running missions...."allying" with the rats is not a mechanic the game is designed around....to do it and keep balance you would need to buff CONCORD response times...and I'm sure that would get a whole lot of love.
ah ok, so in other words, they are just dumb enough as it fits your reasoning in matter, but not too dumb that this whole lore argument would get nuked apart. GOT IT ;) Btw. you are throwing multiple different things together. Concord, missions.. ?? Suicide gankers dont care about rats, they shoot and get concordoccened they dont give a **** about rats. For the allying part, right now, the rats DO SIDE with ratter when a 2nd person appears in site and starts attacking the ratter. But like I said before, its not primarily about the lore but rather gameplay reasons. Having rats protecting the ratter makes ratting backwaters too secure from intruders (aside of cyno drops ofc).
They don't protect him, they re-asses the situation and decide they might as well kill the frig before they most likely all die. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
758
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Posted - 2014.10.01 16:53:00 -
[65] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote: They don't protect him, they re-asses the situation and decide they might as well kill the frig before they most likely all die.
I thought we were already done with this. 1) It doesnt make sense even in lore 2) this thread is not about lore. |
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
23
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Posted - 2014.10.02 01:13:00 -
[66] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Frostys Virpio wrote: They don't protect him, they re-asses the situation and decide they might as well kill the frig before they most likely all die.
I thought we were already done with this. 1) It doesnt make sense even in lore 2) this thread is not about lore.
You want it to go back to the unbalanced way it was before because that was easy and it is what you are used to. You want to warp into an area filled with rats that hate everything and shoot everything, and yet you want them to leave you alone. Etc. Etc. Etc. And you want this simply because it makes your gank attempts easier since you can ignore the rats. NO way in ....... The system was broken before, CCP took a step towards balance and now you cry rivers of tears because of it. So follow the comments you gankers pile onto those you gank, adapt or get the hell out of the game. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
495
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Posted - 2014.10.02 01:40:00 -
[67] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:Maya Xadi wrote: Well, it's quite common thing to kill weak ships first.
you might invent some silly reasoning why rats would want to kill a weaker ship which is not threatening them at all and even helping, but it is still a terrible mechanic which basically gets the rats to protect the ratter from other players engaging him in sites.
it worked in wh's for years and ccp just reapplied it to rest of eve. And oddly enough we never heard wh pvp'ers complaing about it. They want the kills bad enough they adapt and do what it takes. Lesson to be learned from that.
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
759
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Posted - 2014.10.02 06:03:00 -
[68] - Quote
Donnachadh wrote: You want it to go back to the unbalanced way it was before because that was easy and it is what you are used to.
yes, I want to go back on old rat AI.
Donnachadh wrote: You want to warp into an area filled with rats that hate everything and shoot everything, and yet you want them to leave you alone. Etc. Etc. Etc. And you want this simply because it makes your gank attempts easier since you can ignore the rats.
yes. this was beetter. rats protecting the ratter ist most idiotic mechanic ever.
Donnachadh wrote: NO way in ....... The system was broken before, CCP took a step towards balance and now you cry rivers of tears because of it.
the system is now more broken than before, like I explained already.
Donnachadh wrote: So follow the comments you gankers pile onto those you gank, adapt or get the hell out of the game.
what? You mean I cant post on forums and complain about bad mechanics? You're wrong.
Zan Shiro wrote: it worked in wh's for years and ccp just reapplied it to rest of eve. And oddly enough we never heard wh pvp'ers complaing about it. They want the kills bad enough they adapt and do what it takes. Lesson to be learned from that.
oh, then, you want no local too I assume? Bebecause there is no local in WH. Or sleepers? You want sleepers in K-space? Because they are fine in WH. No? Then stop using WH as argument for anything. |
FT Diomedes
The Graduates Forged of Fire
559
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Posted - 2014.10.05 18:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
I was not surprised to see this thread degenerate into arguing about the premise - whether there is a proper balance between ratters and hunters, but I was surprised to see no one express enthusiasm for some more cool ship skins, especially ones that could come from data sites (or some other neglected content) and give a minor advantage in very niche situations. This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
504
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Posted - 2014.10.05 22:46:00 -
[70] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:oh, then, you want no local too I assume? Bebecause there is no local in WH. Or sleepers? You want sleepers in K-space? Because they are fine in WH. No? Then stop using WH as argument for anything.
Yes I'd support no local. It be low sec and 0.0 that fight this....they like there instant intel it seems according to what I read in those threads.. Even have my hard to find t3 fits on stand by. For the gankers who cba to fit to tank rats,,,,well now they have the problem of cba to bring a max prober to find me fast enough, if at all.
Sleepers are a bene to wh dwellers. Lets leave that as is. You want them so bad, you know where to go. They lose the benefit of having stations to call home for example and the route they used to get around last week may not be the same this week, the sleepers one of the carrots on stick to make this bearable.
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