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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
20
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Posted - 2014.09.30 01:49:00 -
[1] - Quote
MMO is dying. MOBA where You don't wait for action, skills, etc is getting all the players.
Why it would be a bad idea to speed up sp gain so after 3 months You have 30mil sp?
Less alts. Maybe more alts. Maybe more new players that wouldn't feel bored.
Would it be better for economy? Ppl buying more expensive ships that they can fly.
Most of my friends that abandoned eve said it was too slow to gain sp. They were bored.
Eve is boring when You have no skills to fly ships or You went for some profession that is boring and then realized it shut Your door to doing something more fun and You need to start over.
Good corporations have 15 mil sp minimum req. That is almost a year of training.
With subs problems maybe it is a good idea to make it happen.
You are still limited by isk. And why not ppl play instead of wait.
New players sitting in dreads? Fighting with nullsec aliances? Not possible at this moment. Eaven if new player gets into dread only - it will take him months. What about other ships durning that time?
Times change. EvE should change too to try to grow.
Do You know of any other game that needs years to get skills?
Eaven to complete tutorial You need to wait hours for skills - this is not a good first impression. |
Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
8
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Posted - 2014.09.30 01:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
I suspect this is something that has been brought up and shot down hundreds of times. To some extent I agree though, although CCP probably wouldn't because the current MO forces people to use different accounts if they want to have two alts trained for different things.
One solution might be to drastically increase the effects of remaps, and remove the bonus remaps you get when you join. That way SP gain speed is increased, but you still require a second account with different remap if you want a second toon with different skill focus than your main (since for example a remap set to train gallente PVP ships will train industry at the speed of a snail). Just a thought. |
Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
20
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Posted - 2014.09.30 02:01:00 -
[3] - Quote
Whole thing with alts is that alts are needed - for cyno, for hauling, supers etc.
I don't see how gaining sp faster would kill use of alts.
Not that forcing ppl to have 2 or more accounts is fair. This is too discouraging ppl - one of my friends said he will never get alt because he wants to identify with his toon. So Yea they lost his sub.
Maybe its time to make this game less boring - content for pve is so bad that I don't see how they can get new players with current state of boring wait for sp. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6271
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Posted - 2014.09.30 02:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
There is a thing called attribute remaps, use them well. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
8
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Posted - 2014.09.30 02:26:00 -
[5] - Quote
They have such a small effect on SP though (someone's gonna say "no they don't because there!" but yes, they do have a pretty small effect and it could benefit from being more pronounced).
EDIT: Predator, I should clarify. When I said alts, I mean things like Industry, JF, and different PVP focused alts with a lot of SP, not disposable cyno alts etc. It lets CCP sell "multiple character training!" that you see advertised often on the login screen. |
Heavypredator Singh
Dedicated Individuals Conditioned to Kill Mordus Angels
20
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Posted - 2014.09.30 02:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Remaps and implants will cut around 1 month per year? This is almost nothing compared to time. Not to mention having implants discourages ppl from going to null.
It's 10 years of this system - it doesn't look like it made ppl play EvE other than hardcore space fans that have not much choice. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6203
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Posted - 2014.09.30 03:29:00 -
[7] - Quote
Part of the idea behind the current skillpoint system (and its slow rate of accumulation) is that you can't "powergrind" to success. You MUST learn how to utilize what you have first... which requires you to use your head and be creative. This helps you later on when you can finally use "better" ships/equipment because you have hopefully familiarized yourself with the underlying mechanics that most Tech 1 ships/equipment utilize.
Example: While you may not be able to pilot that sexy Interceptor right away it is certainly possible to slap together a super fast ship that does something similar... allowing you to experience what it is like to fly one.
It also helps you become accustomed with loss as well. Tech 1 stuff is cheap easily lost... especially when you are learning about game mechanics and your skills are improving. It might not seem so to a rookie (that Tech 1 is cheap), but imagine that they could quickly get into Tech 2, Faction, or even Tech 3 very quickly... without learning game mechanics. How much more do you think a person would rage if they lost something so absurdly expensive due to something they could have cheaply learned at the Tech 1 level? Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Arthur Aihaken
X A X
3828
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:02:00 -
[8] - Quote
-+ Insert Bitter Vet Response Here -½ I am currently away, traveling through time and will be returning last week. |
Angelique Duchemin
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
886
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:08:00 -
[9] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:Good corporations have 15 mil sp minimum req. That is almost a year of training.
Good corps have no skill requirements at all because even a day old pilot can make a difference in pvp.
Good corps pick good people. People with the right attitude who can listen and be counted on and then train them.
The very sun of heaven seemed distorted when viewed through the polarising miasma welling out from this sea-soaked perversion, and twisted menace and suspense lurked leeringly in those crazily elusive angles of carven rock where a second glance shewed concavity after the first shewed convexity. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6272
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:12:00 -
[10] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:They have such a small effect on SP though (someone's gonna say "no they don't because there!" but yes, they do have a pretty small effect and it could benefit from being more pronounced).
EDIT: Predator, I should clarify. When I said alts, I mean things like Industry, JF, and different PVP focused alts with a lot of SP, not disposable cyno alts etc. It lets CCP sell "multiple character training!" that you see advertised often on the login screen.
A rank 5 skill (Lets use Large Hybrids as an example) with an even attribute layout (arguably the worst) with +3/4 implants takes 25 days to train level 4 to 5. A focused attribute layout for say gunnery, missile operation & spaceship command puts that level 4 to 5 skill train at 16 days. That is not a small affect at all, it's rather huge.
Also hi I just trained a new carrier skill to level 5 in 40 days. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6272
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:14:00 -
[11] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:Remaps and implants will cut around 1 month per year? This is almost nothing compared to time. Not to mention having implants discourages ppl from going to null.
It's 10 years of this system - it doesn't look like it made ppl play EvE other than hardcore space fans that have not much choice.
Remaps & implants used well can speed up training by 40-45%. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
8
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:14:00 -
[12] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote: Also hi I just trained a new carrier skill to level 5 in 40 days.
Cool but how long did it take you to train all of the required support skills? Also - +4 implants are restricted to players with high income (and SP! The require Sp to use). The original post was about retaining newbros. |
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors Late Night Alliance
6204
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:14:00 -
[13] - Quote
Angelique Duchemin wrote:Heavypredator Singh wrote:Good corporations have 15 mil sp minimum req. That is almost a year of training. Good corps have no skill requirements at all because even a day old pilot can make a difference in pvp. Good corps pick good people. People with the right attitude who can listen and be counted on and then train them. This. Skillpoint requirements on corp adverts should be ignored. They are there to weed out the weak willed.
It's like applying for a job which "requires" 2-3 years of working experience in a field when you only have a few months to a year. What you are saying to them is, "I know my stuff and I feel confident about it!" Change isn't bad, but it isn't always good. Sometimes, the oldest and most simple of things can be the most elegant and effective.
"How did you veterans start?" |
Leonard Nimoy II
Dark Force Protectorate Special Operators Federation Alliance
8
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:16:00 -
[14] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote: Also hi I just trained a new carrier skill to level 5 in 40 days.
Cool but how long did it take you to train all of the required support skills? Also - +4 implants are restricted to players with high income (and SP! The require Sp to use). The original post was about retaining newbros.
Also the "good corps pick good players regardless of SP" argument does not apply to industry corps, only PVP. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6272
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:26:00 -
[15] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote: Also hi I just trained a new carrier skill to level 5 in 40 days.
Cool but how long did it take you to train all of the required support skills? Also - +4 implants are restricted to players with high income (and SP! The require Sp to use). The original post was about retaining newbros.
5 months. +4 implants are pretty cheap these days, even new players (backed up with good advice) can get themselves some +4's & not feel like they've just spent a fortune. The required cybernetics skill to use +4's takes something like 3 days to train.
If you want to retain new players then this is not the way to do it, since the only people this truly benefits is older players. The real issue that I see isn't how long it takes to train skills, but the terrible advice that people give them. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6272
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Posted - 2014.09.30 04:28:00 -
[16] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Leonard Nimoy II wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote: Also hi I just trained a new carrier skill to level 5 in 40 days.
Cool but how long did it take you to train all of the required support skills? Also - +4 implants are restricted to players with high income (and SP! The require Sp to use). The original post was about retaining newbros. Also the "good corps pick good players regardless of SP" argument does not apply to industry corps, only PVP.
New players aren't going to learn anything useful if you won't teach them. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13407
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Posted - 2014.09.30 05:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
No instant gratification for you OP. I like the fact that after 9 years I still have things to look forwards to and train for. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Alvatore DiMarco
Capricious Endeavours Ltd
2801
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Posted - 2014.09.30 05:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
EVE requires a lot of things from the people who play it. A short attention span is not among them. |
Celthric Kanerian
Ascendance Of New Eden Workers Trade Federation
118
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Posted - 2014.09.30 06:41:00 -
[19] - Quote
You keep on comparing EVE to other games. EVE is NOT like anyother game in the world.
Too bad your friends quit, apparently they don't have patience. I rather have 10 patience players play the game than 100 unpatient players.
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Lugh Crow-Slave
Guardians of the Morrigan
85
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Posted - 2014.09.30 07:36:00 -
[20] - Quote
Leonard Nimoy II wrote: The original post was about retaining newbros.
No it wasn't the original post was about "i want it now" |
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Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
173
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Posted - 2014.09.30 08:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
While speeding up SP gain seems ham-fisted (at best) there is probably something to be said for reducing the amount of time wasted on low level support skills.
Yes it is nice we all have stuff to waste time on years into the future but the amount of time wasted on random **** when you start out is a clear barrier to people enjoying this game. Being of use on Day 1 scarcely seems relevant when you're still basically confined to frigates/begging FCs to let you use your T1-fit Cruiser on Day 90. Travelling at the speed of love. |
Austrene Kanenald
Brave Newbies Inc. Brave Collective
1
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Posted - 2014.09.30 09:10:00 -
[22] - Quote
Um.. That means you could have almost every skill within 3 years. No. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
492
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Posted - 2014.09.30 10:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Heavypredator Singh wrote:It's 10 years of this system - it doesn't look like it made ppl play EvE other than hardcore space fans that have not much choice.
It has a nicer term...its called niche gaming. Eve caters to a niche crowd. A very viable business strategy. Eve will not have the client base WoW ever will (not a bust on ccp, no one will in the near future, blizzard I have to admit knows how to work the crowd real good to draw in the huddled masses, their game just ho's itself out to get there is all...good or bad thing a debate I suppose). WOW chosen as the textbook mainstream game....so textbook most games are weighed as to how much a clone they are to it. Now in the next textbook we learn about the Korean MMO.
Which if people think eve grinds....they need to fire a few of these up. The 2x xp weekends are not rewards...they are the devs stringing no life neckbeards along on a sick psychological experiment. How long can we keep grown people locked in their rooms on a weekend they should be out doing fun stuff in rl...voluntarily.
Eve however tends to pick up the players who don't like the more mainstream. When you aren't poaching 500,000 wow players slaved to the game...well then go for the 10's of thousands who said that is not me. Pays the bills, I will call it a success. |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6272
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Posted - 2014.09.30 11:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Ix Method wrote:While speeding up SP gain seems ham-fisted (at best) there is probably something to be said for reducing the amount of time wasted on low level support skills.
Yes it is nice we all have stuff to waste time on years into the future but the amount of time wasted on random **** when you start out is a clear barrier to people enjoying this game. Being of use on Day 1 scarcely seems relevant when you're still basically confined to frigates/begging FCs to let you use your T1-fit Cruiser on Day 90.
Did you ever hear the story of how a sov-holding alliance collapsed because of the actions of a 3 day old newbee? This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Farsaidh's Freeborn
669
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Posted - 2014.09.30 11:53:00 -
[25] - Quote
A new player in a frigate with 1 weeks worth of skills can make a difference in all sorts of ways. A dozen new players in battle ventures can kill much bigger targets. A single new player can make oodles of isk in exploration if they take the time to learn how (and I mean player skills not chracter skills).
The biggest barrier to a player doing something is the player themself. It is perfectly right that someone should have to spend time learning how to fly a BS for instance, or a HAC, or whichever tech II ship you prefer. In the meantime they should be flying in tch I equivalents to learn how to handle the modules that asupport thewir playstyle. Or even determine that the playstyle they *thought* they liked really isn';t for them way before they invest months into training.
As for industry that really should take a long time to train up. It is no simple taks for the player or their character to learn how to make isk through industry.
Simple answer: The SP rate and system is absolutely fine, and that covers rate of accrual, implants and remaps. |
Valkin Mordirc
296
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
The funniest thing about these SP speed boost threads, is they never realise that how hilarious it would be to be a suicide ganker.
10 mil SP a month I could have a near perfect ganking alt, complete with Catty Thorax and Talos.
If that happened, God save the Charon.
#DeleteTheWeak |
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
49
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:07:00 -
[27] - Quote
I sincerely believe that people who suggest following every market trend because "everybody else is doing it and therefore it would be a totally awesome idea to try to get into an oversaturated marked we have no experience in and duke it out with the big guys instead of ruling our own niche with an iron fist" should be found legally incompetent and exempted from voting rights, social responsibilities, be assigned a legal caretaker and subjected to annual competency evaluation until it is found that a person in question does not any longer represent a grave danger to the existence of mankind. |
Althalus Stenory
Flying Blacksmiths
36
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:14:00 -
[28] - Quote
*popcorn gif*
Yet another sterile thread of something that will never occur. Why ? Because of old players and the current skill SP values.
Keep arguing, it's entertaining :) |
Ix Method
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
173
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:17:00 -
[29] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote:Did you ever hear the story of how a sov-holding alliance collapsed because of the actions of a 3 day old newbee? Did you ever hear the story of the 67924th new player who got bored and ****** off after his trial expired?
Travelling at the speed of love. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
492
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Posted - 2014.09.30 12:18:00 -
[30] - Quote
Valkin Mordirc wrote:The funniest thing about these SP speed boost threads, is they never realise that how hilarious it would be to be a suicide ganker.
10 mil SP a month I could have a near perfect ganking alt, complete with Catty Thorax and Talos.
If that happened, God save the Charon.
that and well at 5 years and change in....I find myself wishing I could fly the small ships more. The very ships they seem to hate and want to rush out of. The green grass of the big ships not so green really, to me anyway.
Now the combat char kind of an expensive clone wise to throw away in fun suicide throwaway frigs. TBH...I have the 6 months free time from the collectors edition I am eyeing to relive cheap throwaway days.
Where after I clean out some pvp cobwebs I know I have I will go with what I always say....it can help more to know how to play the game really than sp amount to some degree. I have friends whose cyno alts with some shooty skills are quite deadly at low sp. It be the years of experience they have that makes them deadly if underestimated due to low sp.
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