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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Alexis Antollare
Helion Production Labs Independent Operators Consortium
6
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:53:00 -
[3481] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Keegan Teutorix wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Sorry, lost a few from earlier when the forum ate a post Chirality Tisteloin wrote:Exponential growth of fatigue seems to overdo it.
Better use "logistic growth":
At each jump:
If Fatigue < jumpdistance: Fatigue = jumpdistance + 1 else : Fatigue += R*Fatigue*(1-Fatigue/K)
The parameter R controls how fast a character exhausts (could be lowered through skills / implants ...?) (baseline might be R=2)
The parameter K is the "maximum" Fatigue a character can get. (something like 30-45 seems realistic) Fatigue decays with time as suggested in Dev blog.
Might give designers better knobs to tune than the exponential growth model.
Cheers, Chira. Nicer tuning options, yes, but we want to keep the math as simple as possible, so people can more easily wrap their heads around it. because complicated math is so rare in eve? In reality this will all just get put into a tool like dotlan and explained in the three sentences Chira used. This would be no worse (probably far better in fact) than the gun and missile damage formulas and only needs to be understood once you reach a certain level in the game, so a two week old character who is still trying to understand the basics will never see this. You also wouldn't need to calculate this on the fly (again compare to damage formulas), you would plan in advance and have all the time you need to do the math. The idea of being able to set a maximum fatigue seems reasonable. what purpose does fatigue of more than one or two weeks serve? No, because complicated math is already too common in EVE. Sometimes it's necessary. Here, it's not.
What about a basic addition instead of the exponential growth of multiplication . If Cooldown = 1+Number of light years jumped then make fatigue -
Post jump Fatigue = Pre Jump Fatigue + Cooldown
|
Murauke
Assisted Homicide
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 15:53:00 -
[3482] - Quote
I couldn't care less about these changes since null sec for me died many years ago when I got married and stopped playing the game 23/7.
However I do see the need in first of all change the cyno mechanic. This is what makes force projection easy. If you already have cyno gens etc you've obviously already worked at the grind so to me that is still perfectly acceptable. For me, the cyno mechanic makes it far too easy to project force. Having an improved cyno mechanic that doesn't hurt the immediate fun should be the thing we aim for. |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
843
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 15:55:00 -
[3483] - Quote
After thinking it through, I want to empathically state the following:
DO NOT EXTEND THE 5 LY RANGE ON CAPITAL JUMPS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
After spending some time last night with a jump planner set to JDC 0 dreads, I have determined that the number of logistics routes into 0.0 have decreased dramatically. This allows for much greater control on what gets into space, and provides meaningful options for fighting an insurgent force (or, by the same token, disrupting an entrenched one.) It is imperative that the restriction stay in place.
If we want to tune things, fatigue is the right place.
Also, I propose nerfing Jump Drive Calibration somewhat -- with the current proposal, caps have a base 2.22 LY jump range, which gets extended to 5 with JDC 5. I'd recommend drastically reducing JDC to 5% per level (currently 25%) and bumping base range to 4. This makes caps a lot more useful without a 37d train tacked on. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
zelalot
OMB Corp
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:00:00 -
[3484] - Quote
Murauke wrote:I couldn't care less about these changes since null sec for me died many years ago when I got married and stopped playing the game 23/7.
However I do see the need in first of all change the cyno mechanic. This is what makes force projection easy. If you already have cyno gens etc you've obviously already worked at the grind so to me that is still perfectly acceptable. The cyno mechanic makes it far too easy to project force. Having an improved cyno mechanic that doesn't hurt the immediate fun should be the thing we aim for. The thing I think about when it comes to a more active cyno-ing role is a more than "click" - Cyno's up.
And many people have already stated - how much time do you think your customer base has to "play" when we have other things to contend with, like paying bills.
This.
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Chirality Tisteloin
Zervas Aeronautics The Bastion
46
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:00:00 -
[3485] - Quote
Chirality Tisteloin wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: No, because complicated math is already too common in EVE. Sometimes it's necessary. Here, it's not.
Ok, I hear you. Logistic growth is not that complicated imho. Before I saw your answer I have prepared a few plots (the script can produce more) to illustrate: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/2014/10/02/logistic-fatigue-growth/Cheers, Chira.
Also please let me remark, that if you are concerned about people wrapping their heads around the maths, it is known that humans are very poor at grasping the behaviour of a power law intuitively. For the logistic growth model you simply approach a (tuneable) terminal velocity at which captitals can move by jump-drive. At the same time, short distance travel velocity is high. See you at my blog: http://spindensity.wordpress.com/ |
white male privilege
University of Caille Gallente Federation
38
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:01:00 -
[3486] - Quote
Querns wrote:After thinking it through, I want to empathically state the following: DO NOT EXTEND THE 5 LY RANGE ON CAPITAL JUMPS UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES
After spending some time last night with a jump planner set to JDC 0 dreads, I have determined that the number of logistics routes into 0.0 have decreased dramatically. This allows for much greater control on what gets into space, and provides meaningful options for fighting an insurgent force (or, by the same token, disrupting an entrenched one.) It is imperative that the restriction stay in place. If we want to tune things, fatigue is the right place. Also, I propose nerfing Jump Drive Calibration somewhat -- with the current proposal, caps have a base 2.22 LY jump range, which gets extended to 5 with JDC 5. I'd recommend drastically reducing JDC to 5% per level (currently 25%) and bumping base range to 4. This makes caps a lot more useful without a 37d train tacked on. Yep, gatecamps will be a thing now. It is not possible to cyno over every chokepoint in eve rendering camps and piracy in general useless |
Isha Subula
Viscosity Fidelas Constans
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:01:00 -
[3487] - Quote
Seriously this is not that bad of a change. Logistics will be fine. With the 90% reduction for Rorq and JF pilots an 8 jump trip takes 48 min if you wait out the fatigue timer after each jump. This is ment to penalize a group moving say 10 titans to a system that takes 3 jumps in a hurry. they will then be stuck thee for hours unable to jump out. I like this! Gives us a chance to catch them.
Bravo CCP |
Eigenvalue
Suay Tii Suk Brave Collective
50
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:01:00 -
[3488] - Quote
Querns wrote: Also, I propose nerfing Jump Drive Calibration somewhat -- with the current proposal, caps have a base 2.22 LY jump range, which gets extended to 5 with JDC 5. I'd recommend drastically reducing JDC to 5% per level (currently 25%) and bumping base range to 4. This makes caps a lot more useful without a 37d train tacked on.
And completely screws over all existing cap pilots out of a very long level 5 train that no one would ever *ever* have trained with your proposed nerf. We're already discussing a massive kick in the nuts to cap pilots, lets not rub cayenne pepper on their nuts afterwards. |
TheMercenaryKing
StarFleet Enterprises Intrepid Crossing
287
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:01:00 -
[3489] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Crysantos Callahan wrote:{other stuff} Did you already run tests with larger capital/supercapital fleets using gates and the possible bumps that will happen?
Thanks in advance! {other stuff} - Yup, Masterplan is doing some fine-tuning of warp logic to make this sort of thing smoother. There's no good way to warp 20 titans to a gate at once without bumping, though.
Thoughts on increasing the range at which capitals can activate the gate? As a sphere's radius increase, the volume increase a by a cube(^3) Ie, if you double the radius, the volume will be 2^3 more. This would allow more ships in fleets to get close.
I am not saying let capitals have a 5KM activation range, but maybe a 3.5KM (1.4^3 = 275% increase in volume around the gate for capitals)? |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
844
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:02:00 -
[3490] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:Querns wrote:
Also, I propose nerfing Jump Drive Calibration somewhat -- with the current proposal, caps have a base 2.22 LY jump range, which gets extended to 5 with JDC 5. I'd recommend drastically reducing JDC to 5% per level (currently 25%) and bumping base range to 4. This makes caps a lot more useful without a 37d train tacked on.
I Agree with this. or just have the calibration skill relate to a 5% reduction in fatigue gain, and have all caps just set to 5LY Yeah, this works too. It depends on whether CCP want skills to affect fatigue or not. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
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Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
1099
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:02:00 -
[3491] - Quote
Ok so here is my post again summarizing everything.
But first let me say, everyone that sells their mains and cancels their accounts before this lands is an idiot and will regret doing that, because these changes ARE NOT FINAL CCP always reserves the right to change things before deployment.
That being said im going to list off the list of compromises and counter proposal to CCP
1. Jump range issue.
5 ly cap is bad. We can all agree on that.
Solution #1 - scaled jump range for each type of ship I will list max ranges. which should be fair. And to keep it simple i used whole numbers.
Carriers, JF, Rorquals - 12 LY
Dreads - 10 LY
Super Carriers - 7 ly
Titans - 5 ly
Solution #2
A new item in either a mid slot, low slot or rig slot; Maximum 1 fitted at a time that provides a bonus to jump range. Bonus will be based on the ship you are flying and will be % based T2 versions of this module will be a 50% increase of the T1 version.
2. Jump Fatigue
Cooldown timers are good, but the current math is a bit extreme.
Solution #1 - scaled fatigue based on the ship you are flying. I will use the same formula as a base for the adjustments.
Titan - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.1) - standard ccp formula Super Carrier - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.15) Dread - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.2) Carrier - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.25) JF, Rorqual, Black ops - 1 + (LY traveled * 0.35)
This favors logistics ships over combat ships, because lets face it logistics is a pain in the arse at times.
Solution # 2 - New implants and boosters that reduce the amount of fatigue you get from the distance traveled.
Names for implants might include, Alarm Clock, Yawn, Dream Booster names might include, NoDoze, Surge, Jolt, Coffee, Tweek, or SUPER CAFFINATED QUAFE!
However there needs to be a downside to boosters, I think an appropriate downside is significant increase in isotope and cap usage.
Soultion # 3 - Make the fatigue a flat rate base on the type of jump.
Type may include Local - within constellation Constellational - within the region but outside the constellation Regtional - outside your region.
Solution # 4 - Make an absolute cap on how much fatigue you can get, cause as it stands you can get several years of fatigue within a week.
3. Cap ships using gates
This goes against EvE canon set forth in the chronicles. Stop that!
EDIT : - make a module that allows them to use a gate, and maybe put a fuel cost per jump
4. Pod jumping
Get your ship into low sec with a nice clone vat on it have all your new members do that. Fly out to null space and then have them self destruct. And set up regular jump schedules.
------------
To my fellow EvE players, these are some fairly balanced solutions. If you like them PLEASE quote which ones you like and say I like this for balance or something along those lines.
Whining, saying you quit blahh blahh blahh will not get CCP to listen. If you want them to listen you must always present your case like a lawyer and convince them why their idea is bad. I have presented my case, and I have offered several solutions which go along with CCP's ideas but are not as harsh as cutting off everyone's limbs.
SO AGAIN,
If you like any of these ideas, quote them, post them and offer feed by of why this or this isnt a good solution.
Thank you for your time today and CCP I do hope you will consider these solutions as a more reasonable balance to nerfing power projection and capital projections.
Regards Obsidian Hawk Capital pilot since 2008 |
Optimo Sebiestor
Kabizashi
262
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:03:00 -
[3492] - Quote
Actually, these migth be the best changes I've seen in years :D |
Moloney
Faceless Men
169
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:03:00 -
[3493] - Quote
Oh and please, for the love of God, do NOT add modules / drugs / what ever to manipulate the jump fatigue. |
Eigenvalue
Suay Tii Suk Brave Collective
50
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:05:00 -
[3494] - Quote
Isha Subula wrote:Seriously this is not that bad of a change. Logistics will be fine. With the 90% reduction for Rorq and JF pilots an 8 jump trip takes 48 min if you wait out the fatigue timer after each jump. This is ment to penalize a group moving say 10 titans to a system that takes 3 jumps in a hurry. they will then be stuck thee for hours unable to jump out. I like this! Gives us a chance to catch them.
Bravo CCP
What does JF nerf have to do with Titans at all?
Also, you need to wait 14 minutes for each fatigue timer after each jump, so your math is way off. It's more like 112 minutes, which is 6 times longer than you would expect now for a JF doing that route and you've just made a really boring profession the most boring profession in any video game in history. |
Karl Mason
Mercurialis Inc. RAZOR Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:06:00 -
[3495] - Quote
NO No No No No No No No..... Go back and start again...
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13495
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:07:00 -
[3496] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:
IDK, warp speed rigged cruisers? Gimmick fits tend to be awful in the real world, I'm sure someone will find a counter.
Rigged cruisers? No. Buuut while we are talking about it...
[Moros, Moros fit]
Damage Control II Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane
Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Domination Warp Disruptor Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script
Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module II
Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II
Not entirely sure if this will work but my dream of roaming dreads just took a big step forwards. Anyway, 1.7 mil EHP, 3au warp speed, a metric fuckton of firepower, half a minute to align (two nano take that down to 22 sec). Frankly if I can get this things align time down to around a battleships I may use it in baltec fleet in an ultimate show of stubbornness. I shall call it monkfish.
CCP Grayscale what have you done? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Gedalva
11
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:07:00 -
[3497] - Quote
This is so delicious to watch the null tears flow.
1) The Mittani and Null powers that be pinpoint "Force Projection" as the evil that is destroying the game.
2) CCP makes long distance Force Projection so time consuming as to be unobtainable.
3) The leaders and members of the large capital fleets guilty of "Force Projection with Malice" cry like someone just took their ice cream.
-Screams of CCP "not listening/understanding" their player base. -Player groups threatening to throw Un-Sub parties. -Character Bazaar exploding with capital and cyno pilots as well as ships for sale. -Cries of disbelief that a Capital ship must deign to use a GATE to travel!
So seldom do I agree with the Mittani but in this case I must, 5 groups hell bent on ruining everyone else's game brought us here. This is the boldest move imaginable to shake up the power structure and status quo and I applaud it even though my logistics chain is impacted considerably with this brush stroke. This will open up hundreds of systems for aspiring forces who would be sov holders but for the heavily skewed mechanics allowing ownership of space without any real representation.
Take a bow CCP, others may see this as a sledgehammer approach but I find it quite elegant. Short of nerfing numbers of members allowed or assigning "x" of Blue's each corporation can issue this forces groups to evaluate the value of their friends and enemies.
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Terraniel Aurelius
High Flyers The Kadeshi
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:07:00 -
[3498] - Quote
I am absolutely in favour of shaking up nullsec. Unfortunately this proposed change does nothing to invalidate B0TLORD or the big blue doughnut. These are player created social contracts that arise from a risk-aversion to losing their SOV.
The reduced jump drive range would result in more predictable avenues of assault from any attacker. The number of spies in any relevant alliance means that the movement of any sizeable force is reported within minutes. Now both sides may start lumbering towards the expected entry system and take days to deploy. Deployments will no longer have the surprise factor that is crucial when a smaller entity is attempting to aggress a larger. You will essentially see the big blue doughnut shrink to the big blue circle, as established alliances simply move to concentrate at choke points. All existing motivations to "leave sov alone" are unaffected, only easier to enforce. Some people have already posted solutions that will allow large alliances to move large forces with nearly the same impunity they do now.
Jump fatigue does nothing to add meaningful or fun gameplay decisions. It merely makes the act of moving a large capital fleet more tiresome and more of a burden. I don't believe that adding more monotony to existing logistics gameplay is a move that will enhance players' experiences. Nearly every industrial player I know is making plans to seriously curtail activity and even considering unsubscribing in view of the extra burden these changes will place on them. For those players that are mostly sub-cap pilots, this change will not affect them directly (unless they participate in a lot of titan-bridging or BlOps), but they will see a degradation of their ability to play as logistics are unable to keep up demand for ships and modules.
Does it suck having carriers and dreads rained down on someone's head when they try to attack a large enemy alliance? Yes it does, but more often we hear of enemy sub-capital fleets forming and making their way towards us, leaving us plenty of time to disengage when a blob is approaching. Now this will only be easier. More stagnation will result. In most major nullsec alliances, having jump cal 5 is nearly a prerequisite for participating in dread battles as lvl 4 is considered inadequate for most engagements. In fact CCP recently changed the skill requirements for all carriers to include Jump Drive Calibration III, suggesting that a minimum carrier jump range of 11.375 lightyears was a necessity. Is this no longer the case? I think we will simply see less capital warfare and more sub-capital warfare as a result. Blobs will still be the apex force. Nothing about these changes affects this fundamental issue. There is no advantage to moving or fighting with less numbers. This change will shift the balance of power in any engagement heavily in favour of the entrenched large coalition defenders, making the taking of sov that much more difficult.
There are some arguments that these changes will bring us back to the glory days of yore. New Eden is fundamentally altered by the addition of jump drives. Reversing the change will not bring back the past. These changes will not create a nullsec made up of tribes. The motivators for nullsec stagnation have not been addressed. These are risk-aversion and the desire to hold massive rental empires for effortless income. There is no real fun way to grind for isk. We do monotonous anomaly ratting, while chatting on comms to stave off the boredom. All to support the chance that we may get a rare good fight sometime. We grind structures and try to generate content. The only thing that keeps people logging in is the odd good fight, and the social atmosphere.
Directors burn out. FC's burn out. CEO's burn out, LogiBros burn out. Why? Monotony. Trying to do the same thing over and over again with no good results. Even with good results, burn out will eventually set in. Making the game slower and more tedious will not help participation levels at all. This will negatively affect subscriber levels of nullsec players, which are already plateaued from what I understand.
If you want the game to recapture the imaginations and ignite the passion of capsuleers combat needs to be faster. More brutal. We need to be able to fake left and hit right. Sov needs to be easier to take, and harder to rent out.
You already have a perfectly viable solution to "force projection". Wormhole jump mechanics. Make the distance spawned from the cyno depend on the mass of the ship, and add in a factor which also increases by the number of ships that have jumped through, as well as the distance jumped .That way a single jump freighter can still land pretty close to undock, but 50 carriers will end up spread 100's of km apart, when jumping maximum range. Like a shotgun blast.
Take away all sov attack notifications. If you're not using the space, you could be losing it, but it shouldn't happen automatically. Make it so that 6 guys in blops could take a back end system somewhere and no one would be the wiser. Give defenders a home system that they can choose and give them defensive bonuses in that single system, so they have a chance to fight to hold on to their little scrap of sov, but not the fields surrounding their castle. The key is to make fighting, and grabbing something unused easier, not harder. Increase the risk and reward of actually having your own slice of sov. Make it so the renters can simply capture their own little system and provide an insufferable amount of defense with their rag tag ships. Let us burn glorious crusades through the stars lose our ships in the dignity and the hellfire of combat, not the decay and rot of sitting in a station unused until subscriptions eventually run out.
Please, for the love of everything beautiful, don't turn this into a game of space Oregon trail. |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
8439
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:08:00 -
[3499] - Quote
Isha Subula wrote:Seriously this is not that bad of a change. Logistics will be fine. With the 90% reduction for Rorq and JF pilots an 8 jump trip takes 48 min if you wait out the fatigue timer after each jump. This is ment to penalize a group moving say 10 titans to a system that takes 3 jumps in a hurry. they will then be stuck thee for hours unable to jump out. I like this! Gives us a chance to catch them.
Bravo CCP
How do you catch Titans who refit for cloaks and cloak up ion a safe spot to wait it all out?
|
May Ke
Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers Get Off My Lawn
27
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:08:00 -
[3500] - Quote
Just in case CCP are actually reading this:
1. This will [probably] increase gate use in Nullsec.
Most people are put off fights in null due to TiDi. Not even necessarily the TiDi while in the fight, but the TiDi getting there... Imagine 10% TiDi when you have a few caps in your fleet - meaning everyone warps at the same speed as the caps... at 10% TiDi.. Effectively meaning that no-one will ever make it to a fight before it is over. Screw that. Make sure your servers are up to the task of all the extra gate use..
2. Don't nerf BLOPS too hard, PLEASE.
BLOPS are not a major part of the "power projection" problem (although I admit that if they are entirely exempt from these changes, they will become a major part of the problem.. Perhaps a reduced amount of fatigue.)
3. Freighters are already a HUGE pain in the arse, don't make it worse!
JF's don't need to be killed with these changes - NullSec occupants need to be able to move things in and out to some degree, please think very carefully about what you are going to do to them.
4. PODEX doesn't need to be removed.
Maybe a bit of fatigue instead (other people have adressed this point very well elsewhere in the threadnought - CCP had best be reading everything.
5. INCARNA
Just saying.. be careful.
Additionally: The blocs need to be broken up, this is important, but is ultimately down to the leaders of those blocs themselves. Who? Me? |
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Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
844
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:10:00 -
[3501] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
IDK, warp speed rigged cruisers? Gimmick fits tend to be awful in the real world, I'm sure someone will find a counter.
Rigged cruisers? No. Buuut while we are talking about it... [Moros, Moros fit] Damage Control II Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Domination Warp Disruptor Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Not entirely sure if this will work but my dream of roaming dreads just took a big step forwards. Anyway, 1.7 mil EHP, 3au warp speed, a metric fuckton of firepower, half a minute to align (two nano take that down to 22 sec). Frankly if I can get this things align time down to around a battleships I may use it in baltec fleet in an ultimate show of stubbornness. I shall call it monkfish. CCP Grayscale what have you done? Just trade out one of the mids for a 100mn MWD. Heat that and you align in 10s. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Lord TGR
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
24
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:10:00 -
[3502] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Chirality Tisteloin wrote:Exponential growth of fatigue seems to overdo it.
Better use "logistic growth":
At each jump:
If Fatigue < jumpdistance: Fatigue = jumpdistance + 1 else : Fatigue += R*Fatigue*(1-Fatigue/K)
The parameter R controls how fast a character exhausts (could be lowered through skills / implants ...?) (baseline might be R=2)
The parameter K is the "maximum" Fatigue a character can get. (something like 30-45 seems realistic) Fatigue decays with time as suggested in Dev blog.
Might give designers better knobs to tune than the exponential growth model.
Cheers, Chira. Nicer tuning options, yes, but we want to keep the math as simple as possible, so people can more easily wrap their heads around it. Is there a particular reason why the cooldown needs to go beyond, say, 6 hours per jump? And what should FCs do with his subcap fleets, just avoid JBs altogether in case someone's been using their char to get to/from the staging system or doing some JF logistics an hour before? |
Obsidian Hawk
RONA Corporation RONA Directorate
1099
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:10:00 -
[3503] - Quote
Moloney wrote:Oh and please, for the love of God, do NOT add modules / drugs / what ever to manipulate the jump fatigue.
Why not this will encourage more industry and more drug production. |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
131
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:11:00 -
[3504] - Quote
Vulfen wrote:With these changes it will now be possible to get caps into incursion systems.
To me that seams like a mistake if people can completely destroy the mother ship with supers or dreads, will CCP make sure the site of the mothership is restricted or buff the mothership to make it more risky for caps to come on field. i.e a damage buff when the mothership shoots caps?
I don't think Caps can take the acceleration gates into actual sites. But they definitely can gatecamp the cynojammed incursion systems - good luck getting an incursion fleet through that. Though tbh nullsec incursions kinda dead anyway, maybe this is just the final nail in the coffin. Will be interesting to see how the lowsec groups react. |
luredivino
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
53
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:11:00 -
[3505] - Quote
So basically what you are saying is that if you have an emergency, you now are guarenteed to lose a multibillion isk ship. My fire alarm is going off, but I have to sit at my computer for 3 hours and wait this absurd timer off or lose something that took me 40 hours to get the isk for. Cant log off because combat timer. Well, might as well let my building burn down.
Things you are making virtually impossible:
- Lowsec and nulsec incursions
- Moving rigged ships anywhere
- Anyone except the largest groups moving anywhere by themselves
- Blops fleets
- Accessing npc null
- Being able to leave system because of something in real life (People with jobs and school play this game)
- Taking a region from a large group
- Living in null without some kind of industrial group building stuff for you locally (Gl living in aridia or any other remote region without people selling stuff.
Things you are doing
- Pissing half the game off
- Maybe limiting power projection
Seems worth |
Daniel Westelius
Specter Syndicate Tactical Narcotics Team
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:11:00 -
[3506] - Quote
To quote you CCP Greyscale: "We considered a range of approaches, some softer than this, some harder. The thing that solidified the direction and scope for us was settling on the target of GÇ£long distance capital travel is faster through gatesGÇ¥; that allowed us to close in on our current solution very quickly. The goals were always expressed in terms of (all but) stopping certain types of activity rather than merely discouraging them, so it was clear from early on that we were going to have to make substantial changes to the status quo."
In what sci-fi movie or novel that you have watched or read has this occurred? Did the Millennium Falcon ever say *screw the hyperspace drive on here, full power to the thrusters ! It's faster !
You could have chosen one of a million ways to fix force projection and capitals, and this is the one you chose? Did you read any of the articles posted on evenews24, TheMitanni and the like? The masses of people offered some good ways of fixing the problem.
To quote someone from my corp, "CCP took a chain saw to a limb that could have been saved with a scalpel".
I would like to hear what you have to say CCP Greyscale in response to this. |
Riddari Prowler
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:12:00 -
[3507] - Quote
Does CCP think most of the people saying they like this change in this thread are serious? Or do they understand that majority of them are just trolling?
Killing logistics/commerce in any game is bad. Giving more control to just a few groups is BAD. By doing these things they are going to lower the amount of money they make from paid subscribers and will end up hurting the company profits in the long run.
By at least coming to a compromise and allowing JF's/Rorqs to be exempt from this change it will at least keep the smaller guys involved and able to enjoy the game as much as the big guys and the pvpers.
I think when making a decision like this they should be looking at their overall profits from the game and try to project how much they might lose by hurting the smaller forces in the game which may or may not ruin it for them forcing them to find a new game and leaving eve. Players leaving Eve mean less overall profits for the company. Where I come from that would cause someone to lose their job.
Seriously they do need to consider not adding these changes to the logistical side of the game. Leave the JF's/Rorq's out of this change would be a great compromise all around and keep all parties in the happy zone. By including them you are just destroying an important aspect of the game for those who enjoy the logistics side over anything else in the game. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13495
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:12:00 -
[3508] - Quote
Querns wrote:baltec1 wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
IDK, warp speed rigged cruisers? Gimmick fits tend to be awful in the real world, I'm sure someone will find a counter.
Rigged cruisers? No. Buuut while we are talking about it... [Moros, Moros fit] Damage Control II Capital Inefficient Armor Repair Unit Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer Federation Navy Magnetic Field Stabilizer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Explosive Membrane Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Federation Navy Stasis Webifier Domination Warp Disruptor Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script Federation Navy Tracking Computer, Tracking Speed Script Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Limited Mega Ion Siege Blaster I, Dread Guristas Antimatter Charge XL Siege Module II Capital Hyperspatial Velocity Optimizer II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Capital Hybrid Metastasis Adjuster II Not entirely sure if this will work but my dream of roaming dreads just took a big step forwards. Anyway, 1.7 mil EHP, 3au warp speed, a metric fuckton of firepower, half a minute to align (two nano take that down to 22 sec). Frankly if I can get this things align time down to around a battleships I may use it in baltec fleet in an ultimate show of stubbornness. I shall call it monkfish. CCP Grayscale what have you done? Just trade out one of the mids for a 100mn MWD. Heat that and you align in 10s.
Ah well there it is. Guess I do have a reason to train caps after all! Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Flashbang Thereal
S0utherN Comfort DARKNESS.
12
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:13:00 -
[3509] - Quote
CCP. YOU KNOW THAT YOU WIL HAVE TO COMPLETLY REMOVE EVERYTHING THAT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH WARP BUBLES FROM THE GAME???. The amount of warpdisruption bubles that wil be put up in every 0sec system in eve wil completly destroy any chance of moving anything around exept ceptors. Did you think about that while you where getting drunk down in your thinking hole. If anyone have any sense about market, now is the time to stock up on warpdisruption bubles? They wil be on high demand in nowember when supercaps starts roaming around trough gates. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
17
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 16:13:00 -
[3510] - Quote
Karl Mason wrote:NO No No No No No No No..... Go back and start again...
You sound like my 4 year old nephew when he does not want to take his bath. |
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