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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Yuri Thorpe
EnRon co.
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:34:00 -
[4501] - Quote
Please, riot, take gray away, everything he has ever touched has died in a fire... |
Polo Marco
Four Winds
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:34:00 -
[4502] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Innominate wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.
Are you seriously blaming the the players for playing the game as it is designed? Given that the players decide what goals to pursue and how, yes. I think it's entirely appropriate to do so.
The Megacorp - renter relationship is profitable for both parties. Successful Eve players put profits first. No mere play mechanic change is going to break this play pattern up. It will just change the method by which you get stomped flat. You will get maybe an extra 30 minutes per roam before they lower the boom on you.
Yay.
If you really want to stop the megacorps you have to make them unprofitable. Many of these 'nullbears' pay billions per month. You're not going to stop that by roaming through twice a week shooting up the place. the only content you provide by doing this is amusement from the locals and a break in boredom for the on call response fleets who are so bored they will hot drop a fly on the windowpane just for something to do.
Use you brain. Break the money chain
Read this:
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5078735#post5078735
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KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
785
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:34:00 -
[4503] - Quote
ugly inside wrote:my group bases out of a high sec island surrounded by lowsec and we arnt near a trade hub.. we do just fine using t2 indys to run our cargo around.. it has me nerv racked going through systems with a dozen guys that are confirmed wanting to kill us.. but we manage..
i kinda like this new patch.. if you want to feel the real value of your cargo hold.. fly it around in space.. like the guys with plex in their cargo hold did.. 20$-1800$ thrown away while flying around with their cargo.
now dont get me wrong.. we use a rorqual and we dont mine local cuz every1 knows you dont $#!T where you eat unless you a bear. and this change WILL make our ninja mining ops a little more of a hassel.. anyone who catches wind of where we currently mine will know that a rorqual comes and goes and now that means we need to setup a base to hide inside and we gotta bring water to the slaves who row the oars of the jump drive..
but i digress.. in the end a change is coming and we must adapt or see what we built die off. and by death i mean either we fall back and change the plan.. or we fall outta eve and check out that new game S.C... u know
Go to null, deal with bubbles, check opinion again CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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SSG Keeper
Exanimo Inc Black Pearl Alliance
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:35:00 -
[4504] - Quote
This is a very easy fix:
Go with all the changes you made in this upcoming patch, but give supers, titans , dreads and carriers capital warp drives so they can fly as fast as a crow.
|
Aerich e'Kieron
Snuff Box
70
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:35:00 -
[4505] - Quote
Jeyz Vega wrote:There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.
Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular. In fact, almost everything being introduced here is a positive for EVE as a whole. Almost every single "negative" or "con" that people have been posting about, have been the CAUSES of huge portions of the stuff currently broken and stagnating in null-sec and EVE.
The problem here is that people see these changes about to be made and think to themselves: "Yeah, null sec is so stagnant, force projection is a real issue we need to fix. But if they change it I don't want it to effect me in any way or give me any limitations or inability to continue to act and play the game the exact same way I currently am, clearly."
All kinds of people saying that these changes are "too harsh", that these are "heavy handed".. Then what? Yeah, lets just reduce the max jump range on every cap ship by 1ly and that will fix force projection and solve the blue donut. That's gonna work.
Basically, you can't just give the issue a "slight nudge" or a "minor tap" in the right direction. It will solve nothing. People will continue the play the game the exact same way they are now, and it will just make it more of a pain in the a**. To make ACTUAL change, you have to be extreme and make a change that not only makes it undesirable to continue playing the current way, but impractical, or even impossible.
It's almost as if these people don't want to fix force projection, naps, etc. They could even have a vested interested in maintaining the current system!
But I don't want to sound like a conspiracy nut. I must just be putting too much thought into it.
Do I actually have the say it? You can't change the game-play and have it not effect your game-play.
The times are changing, roll with it. |
Marian Devers
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
54
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:36:00 -
[4506] - Quote
Obsidian Hawk wrote:You havent been playing long enough then. I have seen them make reasonable compromises. Ive seen them make unreasonable ones too. They have given us ample time to give feed back on the changes. So you can continue to be negative or post constructively like many others and work with them. CCP will listen, sadly a lot of changes happen because too much of the player base is silent.
Starting with the AF changes CCP have continuously ignored all player feedback. Feedback that warned them about the negative repercussions, and eventually came to pass.
The only exception was Greed is Good and the Gold Magnate. Neither of which dealt with gameplay per se. |
Yuri Thorpe
EnRon co.
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:38:00 -
[4507] - Quote
Aerich e'Kieron wrote:Jeyz Vega wrote:There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.
Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular. The time are changing, roll with it. How about the traders that go to null to sell things? How about the people who work at black frog and pushX? What about the indy guys? Tell me more about it hurts no one... |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
445
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:38:00 -
[4508] - Quote
Polo Marco wrote: If you really want to stop the megacorps you have to make them unprofitable. Many of these 'nullbears' pay billions per month. You're not going to stop that by roaming through twice a week shooting up the place. the only content you provide by doing this is amusement from the locals and a break in boredom for the on call response fleets who are so bored they will hot drop a fly on the windowpane just for something to do.
I disagree. Isk is not a valid mechanism for balancing things, not for large scale issues. We've seen time and time again that the top groups will find a way to work around such limitations, in ways and with a speed CCP cannot predict.
Time and effort are the only things that work as limiting factors in a game like this.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Querns
GBS Logistics and Fives Support Goonswarm Federation
855
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:38:00 -
[4509] - Quote
Marian Devers wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:You havent been playing long enough then. I have seen them make reasonable compromises. Ive seen them make unreasonable ones too. They have given us ample time to give feed back on the changes. So you can continue to be negative or post constructively like many others and work with them. CCP will listen, sadly a lot of changes happen because too much of the player base is silent. Starting with the AF changes CCP have continuously ignored all player feedback. Feedback that warned them about the negative repercussions, and eventually came to pass. The only exception was Greed is Good and the Gold Magnate. Neither of which dealt with gameplay per se. Did you miss the part where, in this very thread, they addressed the potential New Player Experience issue with podjumping by allowing new players to podjump? The change that was directly related to feedback?
I guess if you ignore all feedback but the kind you agree with, your statement is true. This post was crafted by the wormhole expert of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal, the foremost authority on Eve: Online economics and gameplay. |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5430
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:39:00 -
[4510] - Quote
Arsine Mayhem wrote:smokeydapot wrote:KIller Wabbit wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:Stay focused everyone. Keep the balanced ideas coming in. If we work hard CCP will meet us half way with changes we can all agree on. You're new here aren't you. Aahh the optimistic noob I remember the day when I was one of them, It was a sunny Saturday afternoon and.................... You're the problem N3, just bio and game fixt. Ah the blame game. Honestly, who gives a ****? We are where we are. I believe even the most bitter and angry will find themselves is a happier place once the changes happen. Sure there will be growing pains, but EVE needs this change if it hopes to return to greatness. The Paradox |
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Demetri Slavic
Mind Games. Suddenly Spaceships.
92
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:40:00 -
[4511] - Quote
As a leader in a Merc alliance, Im interested if the nerf to the ability to move large quantities of Rigged Ships is intended.
Combat wise, I love these changes. But trying to figure out how long it will take to move 30million m3 of rigged ships 30LY with 10 carriers makes me cry. EVE London Organiser-á-á-á-á-á https://www.facebook.com/EVELondonMeets @EVELondonMeets Next Meet:
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Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
445
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:40:00 -
[4512] - Quote
Yuri Thorpe wrote:Aerich e'Kieron wrote:Jeyz Vega wrote:There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.
Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular. The time are changing, roll with it. How about the traders that go to null to sell things? How about the people who work at black frog and pushX? What about the indy guys? Tell me more about it hurts no one... 1. They make more isk, since there will be fewer willing to make the effort. 2. They make more isk, since their jump timers have value they can charge for. 3. They make more isk, since they can pass on their increased costs to their customers at a reasonable markup.
Seems like good things to me... We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Mike Azariah
DemSal Corporation DemSal Unlimited
1645
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:41:00 -
[4513] - Quote
Marlona Sky wrote: Ah the blame game. Honestly, who gives a ****? We are where we are. I believe even the most bitter and angry will find themselves is a happier place once the changes happen. Sure there will be growing pains, but EVE needs this change if it hopes to return to greatness.
I was just asking about you, whether you had weighed in. I am only haldway through the threadnaught (reading everything takes time)
Glad to see you are here and happy/satisfied.
m
Mike Azariah-á CSM8 and now CSM9 |
Murauke
Assisted Homicide
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:42:00 -
[4514] - Quote
I've read this forum over and over and the dev blog over and over, and well, Because you know I'm all about that bass, 'Bout that bass, no treble, I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass, no treblem I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass, no treble, I'm all 'bout that bass, 'bout that bass.
Seriously i still can not understand why CCP want to impose a time penalty to pilots who seek out fun. the actual act of jumping ships from point A to point B shouldnt be what is penalised, it is very specifically the act of providing a cyno that should be the focus. |
Utopia Atheras
Powder and Ball Alchemists Union The Predictables
30
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:42:00 -
[4515] - Quote
CCP Greyscale wrote:Can supers use gates after this change? Yes.
Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0? Yes, it probably does. Following further discussion after publishing this dev blog, we have come up with the following additional feature:
For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, or For all players greater than thirty days old, once per year:
You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that: GÇóMoves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and GÇóThen moves you to the (new) station containing your medical clone
Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status. This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to Nullsec" concern, and also gives non-Nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.
Is the balance for Black Ops final? No. Please give feedback!
Very large fatigue values will take a loooong time to decay, is this too much? Possibly yes, we'll have a look at this.
Does a titan providing a bridge gain fatigue when people jump through it? No. Only if the titan itself jumps.
Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea? Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.
Please take a moment to sign the petition:
http://www.change.org/p/riot-games-hire-ccp-greyscale-ccp-fozzie
|
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
785
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:42:00 -
[4516] - Quote
Depot cache's and every cap pilot trains JF (or freighter if that gets a .1 as well). Solved. (now where's my JF BPO...) CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
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Yuri Thorpe
EnRon co.
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:42:00 -
[4517] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Yuri Thorpe wrote:Aerich e'Kieron wrote:Jeyz Vega wrote:There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.
Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular. The time are changing, roll with it. How about the traders that go to null to sell things? How about the people who work at black frog and pushX? What about the indy guys? Tell me more about it hurts no one... 1. They make more isk, since there will be fewer willing to make the effort. 2. They make more isk, since their jump timers have value they can charge for. 3. They make more isk, since they can pass on their increased costs to their customers at a reasonable markup. Seems like good things to me... That hurts someone that has to pay for that, it always hurts someone |
Nazoni 1
BuBBleZ UP Northern Associates.
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:43:00 -
[4518] - Quote
> well in my opinion, if CCP goes foward with this they literay will kill null - turning it into a wasteland aswell ppl playing in it (game)> well in my opinion, if CCP goes foward with this they literay will kill null - turning it into a wasteland aswell ppl playing in it (game) |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
445
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:43:00 -
[4519] - Quote
Demetri Slavic wrote:As a leader in a Merc alliance, Im interested if the nerf to the ability to move large quantities of Rigged Ships is intended.
Combat wise, I love these changes. But trying to figure out how long it will take to move 30million m3 of rigged ships 30LY with 10 carriers makes me cry. 5 hours each way, for as long as you want to do it really. With 30 carriers, you can do it in 5 hours max, or 3.75 if you use the trick pointed out earlier in the thread of waiting out your fatigue for the first 3 jumps. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Sienna Toth
Pulsar Phisics Shipyards
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:43:00 -
[4520] - Quote
Grayscales fundamental premise is flawed.
In general the speed of transport with a jumpship is not a factor in jumpship decisions. I may miss a few but fundamentally there are 2 reasons to make a jump.
1) Safety - Jumpships bypass the gatecamps. 2) Tactical surprise - bring overwhelming firepower to bare in a short amount of time.
Speed of movement is simply not a consideration. I suggest Greyscale get an account and figure out how the players actually play vs. cooking crap up that's basically useless and unnecessary.
Adding the ability for the Caps to be transported via gate would be a nice to have, but come on CCP quite changing things for the sake of change and get real problems in the game addressed.
!!! Love Ya !!!
LOL
Sienna |
|
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
445
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:44:00 -
[4521] - Quote
Yuri Thorpe wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Yuri Thorpe wrote:Aerich e'Kieron wrote:Jeyz Vega wrote:There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.
Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular. The time are changing, roll with it. How about the traders that go to null to sell things? How about the people who work at black frog and pushX? What about the indy guys? Tell me more about it hurts no one... 1. They make more isk, since there will be fewer willing to make the effort. 2. They make more isk, since their jump timers have value they can charge for. 3. They make more isk, since they can pass on their increased costs to their customers at a reasonable markup. Seems like good things to me... That hurts someone that has to pay for that, it always hurts someone But not everyone, which was the point. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Aerich e'Kieron
Snuff Box
70
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:44:00 -
[4522] - Quote
Yuri Thorpe wrote:Aerich e'Kieron wrote:Jeyz Vega wrote:There is not a single pro-argument for this crap. It helps NO ONE, and screws all.
Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular. The time are changing, roll with it. How about the traders that go to null to sell things? How about the people who work at black frog and pushX? What about the indy guys? Tell me more about it hurts no one...
These services charge people because they go to the effort of moving your stuff for you, no? If the effort involved increases.... they could always... you know... charge more for their service.
The amount of effort involved to move stuff around isn't dependent on what type of player is moving the stuff lol. It's just as much work for the individual, even more so. And so the value of moving someone's stuff a long distance increases. That part of the problem is a non-issue.
If the problem lies with them being cut off from npc pirate space, then it also continue there. The players wanting to move stuff into that space can't move it there with a jump drive either. And again, PushX and Frogs can charge more for moving to that location, or refuse to do the job entirely, if they so choose.
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Yuri Thorpe
EnRon co.
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:45:00 -
[4523] - Quote
"Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular." |
Orbicular
Full Mental Jacket
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:46:00 -
[4524] - Quote
Eats popcorn with anticipation
Let's hope the larger alliances will adapt. I'd hate to see so many capsuleers quit because their game just got a whole lot more interesting. |
Zan Shiro
Alternative Enterprises
499
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:46:00 -
[4525] - Quote
Veskrashen wrote:Innominate wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote: That's a question I'd suggest you ask your leaders, not us.
Are you seriously blaming the the players for playing the game as it is designed? Given that the players decide what goals to pursue and how, yes. I think it's entirely appropriate to do so.
This. I keep hearing well its the mechanics that make and allow us to do it. Just because the rules/mechanics allow(ed) it doesn't mean you have to say well lets push it till it breaks.
Funny, hopefully, rl analogy. Let's say you have a good other half (gf/bf. wife/husband). So good they say if you just want to go out with your friends anytime go ahead.
If you use this free pass once in while its all good. Its when you using a lot....that other half starts to change their stance on this. They kind of want you spending time with them at least occasionally.
Call it a trap, sometimes when they say yes, it means I am seeing you if you to the right thing I really want you to do and show some restraint.
Applied to eve. Eve gave the convenience of open jumping around. And some/many abused this. we are being roamed by bc's and hacs what do we do.....hot drop them of course. Or others roaming with the caps and supers for dynamite fishing trips.
Current and soon to be gone way made this possible. Just blinked through 3 systems to do whatever (fish or pve) and if you got the gas, blink 3 more times.
New system....some time added to this. Some may have to, gasp, use gates. this may have been avoided if the hot drop button was not pressed so much. Yes the mechanics allowed it. Didn't mean they had to use it every damn time though.
Another real life anaiogy. My boss knows we don't nickel and dime on OT/comptime. something goes to 10 minutes past official end of day, we tend to not submit requests for compensation for this small crap. He also does not go ape crap when we come in 5 minutes late in the morning, or from lunch from time to time. Now if I pushed this and came in late all the time....now we'd have a problem. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
447
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:46:00 -
[4526] - Quote
Sienna Toth wrote:Grayscales fundamental premise is flawed.
In general the speed of transport with a jumpship is not a factor in jumpship decisions. I may miss a few but fundamentally there are 2 reasons to make a jump.
1) Safety - Jumpships bypass the gatecamps. 2) Tactical surprise - bring overwhelming firepower to bare in a short amount of time.
Speed of movement is simply not a consideration. You're smoking something good if you think that travel time isn't a consideration.
The ability of APEX FORCE to rapidly move across the map is a major contributing factor to the stagnation of nullsec.
Moreover, the overwhelming majority of complaints about the change is that it hardcaps travel time over long distances.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1954
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:47:00 -
[4527] - Quote
Querns wrote:Marian Devers wrote:Obsidian Hawk wrote:You havent been playing long enough then. I have seen them make reasonable compromises. Ive seen them make unreasonable ones too. They have given us ample time to give feed back on the changes. So you can continue to be negative or post constructively like many others and work with them. CCP will listen, sadly a lot of changes happen because too much of the player base is silent. Starting with the AF changes CCP have continuously ignored all player feedback. Feedback that warned them about the negative repercussions, and eventually came to pass. The only exception was Greed is Good and the Gold Magnate. Neither of which dealt with gameplay per se. Did you miss the part where, in this very thread, they addressed the potential New Player Experience issue with podjumping by allowing new players to podjump? The change that was directly related to feedback? I guess if you ignore all feedback but the kind you agree with, your statement is true.
Why not just use a rorq and put the clones in there and jump out the rorq to CFC space and then JC there? There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
Omanth Bathana
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
128
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:47:00 -
[4528] - Quote
Demetri Slavic wrote:As a leader in a Merc alliance, Im interested if the nerf to the ability to move large quantities of Rigged Ships is intended.
Combat wise, I love these changes. But trying to figure out how long it will take to move 30million m3 of rigged ships 30LY with 10 carriers makes me cry.
Moving millions of m3 of rigged ships quickly over long distances is actually exactly what this change is designed to prevent. Hope you like waiting for timers to expire!
The fundamental problem here is that this change introduces massive quality of life obstacles to nullsec players without also providing commensurate rewards for those players. Nullsec stagnation will go away on its own when the incentives to control massive amounts of space are reduced and nullsec systems are realistically capable of supporting reasonable populations.
Wiser men than me have addressed why this will only harm the little guy that CCP claims to be supporting. This change does nothing that isk and sp can't get around. Hope you like Infomorph skills being mandatory the same way learning skills were. |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
447
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:47:00 -
[4529] - Quote
Yuri Thorpe wrote:"Actually, it helps everyone and doesn't screw anyone in particular." Fixed that for you. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
smokeydapot
MSE-corp Northern Associates.
14
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 23:47:00 -
[4530] - Quote
Utopia Atheras wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:Can supers use gates after this change? Yes.
Does this make it too difficult for new pilots to get out into 0.0? Yes, it probably does. Following further discussion after publishing this dev blog, we have come up with the following additional feature:
For players less than thirty days old, once per player corporation joined, or For all players greater than thirty days old, once per year:
You may push a button in your corp interface (while a member of a player corp and docked) that: GÇóMoves your medical clone to a station designated by your corporation, and GÇóThen moves you to the (new) station containing your medical clone
Exact method of corporations designating target station still being ironed out, but it will involve at the very least being able to designate a default station for all corp members, and will likely be allowed for *any* station with a corp office, regardless of system sec status. This seems to us like it solves the "I want to recruit people to Nullsec" concern, and also gives non-Nullsec recruiters an easier way to get genuinely new players to the right location easily.
Is the balance for Black Ops final? No. Please give feedback!
Very large fatigue values will take a loooong time to decay, is this too much? Possibly yes, we'll have a look at this.
Does a titan providing a bridge gain fatigue when people jump through it? No. Only if the titan itself jumps.
Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea? Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something. Please take a moment to sign the petition: http://www.change.org/p/riot-games-hire-ccp-greyscale-ccp-fozzie
You forgot to put Rise on there as well, I'm not convinced he's good for the game. |
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