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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Jethro Winchester
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
20
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:04:00 -
[5581] - Quote
BuddyKnife wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.
Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?
@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev I think we're here beaking the current null not because it's 2 massive empires are vibrant and happy, but because it is stale, boring and only ISBoxers log in if there isn't a timer involved. Your large empires are teh suxors and logins are proving it. Have you ever thought of maybe fixing the sov issue rather than punishing the people who play the game as designed?
Haven't you heard? CCP will be possibly implementing some form of vague change at some point in the future, maybe.
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Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
540
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:05:00 -
[5582] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Yes, the geography is going to make a lot of difference. Yes, getting the upper hand over the enemy fleet is going to be hard. These are both things that we see as broadly positive.
What about the issues around the outer edges of EVE? Smaller entities are going to struggle with the JF changes but out there the space is likely to be all but verboten to them thanks to the likes of us who they have to get through. Also as a sidenote on titans/supers, are there any plans to have them able to dock somewhere so the pilot can get out? Right now they are not exactly heavily used on a day to day basis which will only get worse with these changes.
If you don't like trapping a character in a super.... just sell it. Isn't this whole cake and eat it too thing kind of embarassing?
Based on the current changes... do you really think CCP is in tune with finally letting you dock your supers? Are you missing the point of what's going on by that much???
Thank you. Over the last few days your posts in specific have brought me much joy and happiness. You have personally made my eve life more fulfilling. |
BuddyKnife
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:08:00 -
[5583] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.
Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?
@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev I think we're here beaking the current null not because it's 2 massive empires are vibrant and happy, but because it is stale, boring and only ISBoxers log in if there isn't a timer involved. Your large empires are teh suxors and logins are proving it.
Also to add one more thing. Our empire is quite vibrant and happy. We are now producing T1 and T2 modules and ships in 0.0 on a scale this game has never seen before but if these changes go through we will no longer be able to import the required materials to sustain this production. |
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries Chelonaphobia
540
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:10:00 -
[5584] - Quote
Dalia Rensini wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:hezie99 wrote:As has been said a number of times... I dont believe the issue is with the combat aspect of it, we welcome some of the changes. its more the logistical issues.
CCP: be smart take JFs etc out of this re balance and leave them as are, there is no reason why they should change, especially since you have stopped death clones.
Nerf JF further. Take the knees out from under the large empires. Make logistics impossible to manage for LAAARGE alliances. Once folks start taking care of themselves, they will realize they don't need big daddy to give them handouts. The loud cry to let up on JF nerfs is the absolute reason the cut should be just a little bit deeper to them. Honestly, if (as in someone's example) the price of a covert ops cloak goes from 5 mil back to 100 mil.... Sweet, little start up corps/alliances will be able to fund their efforts bringing them to market. A task that is too difficult for a large lazy bloated oversized..... (you get the picture) alliance will be a welcome opportunity for agile and nimble groups. The covert ops cloaks will get built and prices will stabalize. If they stabalize at really high levels then isk will recoup some of it's value. I recall the days when I paid 14 mil for a fleeting webber because the T2 variant was too expensive. If the best option for a webber is a 14 mill fleeting, then npc loot will again have value and folks will stop to collect it. OMG... this would cause folks to go out an play the game to make isk. They would hang in belts/anoms longer promoting pvp. My point is that if someones argument is that it's too difficult to XXXXX, those claims are on a personal level. There will always be 1,000s of guys lower on the food chain willing to step up and feast on another's scraps. If you're too rich to be bothered picking up that 14 mill isk webber from the wreck, it's probably time to go lose some ships in pvp. Dear Serendipity, you are so wrong it actually hurts. The big alliances have the resources, manpower, willpower and redundancies to be able to overcome this JF nerf with ease. It is the small guys without the infrastructure and support network behind them who are going to suffer most. Also everyone else who buys anything in Eve as markets and manufacturing feel the impact of more expensive logistics.
The neat part about this un avoidable change is that we will actually see who is right a few months down the road. |
Kari Trace
24
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:12:00 -
[5585] - Quote
BuddyKnife wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.
Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?
@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev I think we're here beaking the current null not because it's 2 massive empires are vibrant and happy, but because it is stale, boring and only ISBoxers log in if there isn't a timer involved. Your large empires are teh suxors and logins are proving it. Also to add one more thing. Our empire is quite vibrant and happy. We are now producing T1 and T2 modules and ships in 0.0 on a scale this game has never seen before but if these changes go through we will no longer be able to import the required materials to sustain this production.
Bleh, T2 production existed in null long before JF. It's called Freighters, with combat escort. You know, actually having to protect the industrial based that makes the ships we like to make explode.
I'd be happy w/ no JFs personally, but I know that won't happen. I like making things explode.
Kari Trace |
Veers Belvar
Swordmasters of New Eden
142
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:12:00 -
[5586] - Quote
Always fascinating to hear the Goons in actions. Somehow the following two points are internally consistent:
1. The nerf to capital movement won't really hurt goons because they will just cache capitals all over their space and run 1000 man megathron and cruiser fleets to respond to challenges on the fringes of their space. Their massive numbers will also allow them to seamlessly run logistics and supply throughout their vast space, and not compel them to abandon territory.
2. The changes will lead to a massive spike in T2 prices throughout Eve (this is a bad thing? Might actually make model tiercide matter), because no one (including the vaunted Goon logistics crew from point 1. above) will be able to get moon goo to production centers. None of the many viable options, including wormholes, chains of alts, intelligent route planning, blockade runners, etc... will matter, because the whole T2 market will simply collapse in spectacular fashion.
? |
Please Turn
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
19
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:12:00 -
[5587] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote: Do you really think that you can change the basic human inclination to cooperate and collude with others when there are mutually beneficial gains to be had by adding artificial restrictions on game mechanics? If your answer is yes, you are naive.
Shots fired.
First of all, you guys need to decide what you want from Eve. To me it seems that you can't make up your mind. One moment is a game(CCP what? so much work, no - we need to have fun), then you quickly change your discourse to we're here to build empires ( no fun allowed).
The proposed changes(the first phase) are not, in my view at least, intended to directly break the "empires". Their objective is to introduce meaningful choice when you decide to engage or not an opponent (via the jump option) and meaningful choice on where to deploy(store) your ships. Human inclination to cooperate and collude when there are mutually beneficial gains to be had will always win. The beauty of this changes is just that it has the potential, through the meaningful choice I specified earlier, to decrease the number of cases in which the mutually beneficial gains are present. (i.e. Guys, we can't show up to all timers due to the stupid fatigue, we choose A,B,C and leave D,E,F undefended. What? Why is your tower more important than ours? etc. )
I got it that a lot of people don't like the changes, for whatever reasons. Many simply because is easier to oppose change than to embrace it. Many others because they don't know any better. Some because of genuine concerns and so on. However, in the end Eve is not my game, not your game, but CCP's game. Their business, their right to change it as they see fit. Is not like we have a gun pointed at our heads so we can't stop playing or anything like that, in case we don't find reasons to do it anymore. |
MUJADDID MATT
Islamic Jipod
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:13:00 -
[5588] - Quote
We, the members of Jipod, welcome these excellent changes. |
Jin Kugu
Asteroid Central Rose Alliance
15
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:14:00 -
[5589] - Quote
Jethro Winchester wrote: Give it up. Nobody is listening.
He doesn't give a flying fuck about what anybody thinks. He'll make some small "tweaks" in order to triumphantly claim that the changes were implemented with player support and feedback and ram the entire thing down our collective throats, confident in the belief that 'Greyscale knows best.".
Then a couple of months later CCP will backpedal furiously when they realize how horrible an idea all of this really was.
The fact that they nerfed fuel use recently proves you are right. There is no way they thought that was a relevant change if they were already thinking about this.
It's a bad change with unintuitive mechanics and some dodgy math behind it.
Sounds about right for a ccp fix.
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Sym Biotic
Star Frontiers Test Alliance Please Ignore
12
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:14:00 -
[5590] - Quote
Kagura Nikon wrote:The Slayer wrote:Sym Biotic wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea? Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.
At what length of time does a game stop being a game? With the timer capping at a month will we see people unsub to wait the month, since you have said that it will keep counting down while unsubbed? Jump/capital skills have already taken months/years to train only to then have potential month long cds. I think you guys should really look at a skill refund if players want it, this is a really radical change that trashed some peoples entire enjoyment of the game. To then spit in their face and tell them well just train something else then is just adding insult to injury. On a completely different note, the continuous comments pointing out player stargates being implemented seems super silly as they nerf jump bridges (player stargates 1.0). Rename it how ever you want, it just seems like poor management to add the same mechanic twice only call it something else. It baffles me that anyone would think that a system whereby you cannot engage in fleet combat in your vessel for a MONTH is acceptable or warranted. Supercapital pilots are going to be resubbed for fights and left to stagnate otherwise, moreso than they are right now. QUOTING SOMEOEN THAT CANNOT READ! The max time you can stay unable to jump is 3 days, and you need to be utter reckless to get to that level. 1 month FATIGUE does not mean 1 month TIMER to jump.
Again it would take 1 month to clear a timer in a game. 1 MONTH that is if you do not jump at any time during that month. So again at what point does it stop being a game? A continuous 3 day timer, hell a continuous 1 day timer, in my book is unacceptable.
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
249
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:16:00 -
[5591] - Quote
Serendipity Lost wrote:baltec1 wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Yes, the geography is going to make a lot of difference. Yes, getting the upper hand over the enemy fleet is going to be hard. These are both things that we see as broadly positive.
What about the issues around the outer edges of EVE? Smaller entities are going to struggle with the JF changes but out there the space is likely to be all but verboten to them thanks to the likes of us who they have to get through. Also as a sidenote on titans/supers, are there any plans to have them able to dock somewhere so the pilot can get out? Right now they are not exactly heavily used on a day to day basis which will only get worse with these changes. If you don't like trapping a character in a super.... just sell it. Isn't this whole cake and eat it too thing kind of embarassing? Based on the current changes... do you really think CCP is in tune with finally letting you dock your supers? Are you missing the point of what's going on by that much??? Thank you. Over the last few days your posts in specific have brought me much joy and happiness. You have personally made my eve life more fulfilling.
baltec1 is just a self serving (|)lord propaganda machine.
There will never be anything it will offer that will be "for the good of the game" as a whole.
Best just to ignore it. |
BuddyKnife
Amok. Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:18:00 -
[5592] - Quote
Kari Trace wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.
Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?
@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev I think we're here beaking the current null not because it's 2 massive empires are vibrant and happy, but because it is stale, boring and only ISBoxers log in if there isn't a timer involved. Your large empires are teh suxors and logins are proving it. Also to add one more thing. Our empire is quite vibrant and happy. We are now producing T1 and T2 modules and ships in 0.0 on a scale this game has never seen before but if these changes go through we will no longer be able to import the required materials to sustain this production. Bleh, T2 production existed in null long before JF. It's called Freighters, with combat escort. You know, actually having to protect the industrial based that makes the ships we like to make explode. I'd be happy w/ no JFs personally, but I know that won't happen.
I don't think you understand the scale we are talking. I don't have exact numbers but I know we have over 2,000 reaction towers that need materials that are not from our space. That kind of logistics is not possible without the use of jump freighters and making it so you have to spend 4x the time moving things is just going to make people quit. Not to mention the effects on the economy. |
fukier
1162
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:19:00 -
[5593] - Quote
MeBiatch wrote:Ok so me and my brother got pretty trashed last night and came up with the way to achieve the density that is required to have occupation based sov but also increase pvp and have free enterprise.
The idea is loosely based on Baltec1 idea of having mission in all 0.0 outposts...
Remember way back in the day before there was sov space, before pos, before outposts... the only way you could claim something in deep space with shooting at and taking over a conquerable Station.
I read the 0.0 null alliance wish list where they want more NPC space in every 0.0 region to act was jumping points to fight out of.
What I would like to see is instead of new NPC space added to existing 0.0... I want to see new non conquerable stations added to 0.0 conquerable space.
There would be a bunch several of these stations added per region.
These stations would be the ones that have mission agents in them. Mission would be combat related and go from level 1-5.
These stations could be found in systems that already have outposts in them.
These stations would be free ports and anyone in eve could dock in them.
This is a great idea!!!
Just think about 0.0 having freeports all over the place At the end of the game both the pawn and the Queen go in the same box. |
smokeydapot
MSE-corp Northern Associates.
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:20:00 -
[5594] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:Here is a good tidbit from 2011, clearly showing that CCP Greyscale's obsession with the fantasy he has on null-sec is poorly thought: " The harder we can make logistics, the better for the game viewed as an abstract system. It would be much better for the game if we got rid of freighters, but we have to balance what is good for the game at a higher systemic level with making the player's lives a living hell. Forcing people to do convoys with lots of industrials would, from a higher level systemic view, be awesome. But for the individual players, it would suck balls.
[CCP has] gone [too far] in the direction of making players lives easy GĒō we've got jump freighters and jump bridges and all this [stuff] GĒō and I think there is an agreement here [at CCP] that we want to pull back from that. We would like to pull back as far as we can get away with. But how far can we go?GĒ„ The underlying point is the need to get a balance between avoiding frustration and getting desirable macro-scale outcomes.
--CCP Greyscale - CSM Minutes, December 2010
CCP Greyscale's nullsec wonderland is a highly dysfunctional, post-apocalyptic society that has suffered a major economic collapse. Cool to read about. Not a fun place to live unless you're the local strong man pissing all over the peasants. And even then....
As Dr. Eyj+¦lfur might be able to explain to his game designer, robust economies require institutions that keep the means of production and transportation secure. CCP did not provide those institutions to nullsec, so the players have evolved them over time. Despite the insecure nature of nullsec, a player can move with relative safety within the boundaries of space with which his alliance has a non-aggression pact. Dangers are there, but the coalition works together to minimize them. This makes some nullsec coalitions a good place to do business. In fact an ongoing concern with lowsec is the tendency of non-PvP players to leap over lowsec, where space is nominally less dangerous but harder to control, directly to nullsec.
Take away the ability of nullsec players to provide those institutions and the producers and traders will leave nullsec for places where they can ply their trades. This is what happens when businesses can no longer operate in safety. Some brave souls will remain as high risk can result in high profits, however the local economies will become largely non-functional.
It would certainly be awesome from a systemic level if Iceland had to go back to importing goods from off-shore using Viking era Knarr ships. Especially if we forced them to sail through various choke points heavily populated by pirates. Mind, it would totally "suck balls" for people living in Iceland. But then, they chose to live out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.
If someone in the EU suggested that scenario were a desirable macro-scale outcome, I'm sure a few folk in Reykjavik might object." Above part in italics is quoted from this blog post. Well, CCP did not make logistics easy in the past. What CCP has done with including Jump Bridges, Jump Freighters and Freighters in game was increasing the quality of life for logistics players and for those who live in null, so that their lives were tenable. CCP had to do this to garner interest for it's miniscule amount of subscribers to live in null, and because their game was losing players. Now, at the present day, CCP management has made a terrible mistake and started to regard Greyscale as their bright idea fairy. Basically, CCP gave a null sec working group to a developer who has no idea about economics, not just as a social science, but also as an abstract and isolated mechanic that applies to EVE markets. Look at Greyscale's surprised reactions in this thread. From " Oh, newbies use clone jumping?" to " T2 production was done before Jump Freighters, so I don't think jump fatigue will negatively impact T2 production" show that Greyscale has no idea about the dynamics regarding goods and production in EVE. (Yeah, say hello to a T2 cloak costing +100m ISK, just as it was before Jump Freighters, you genius!) This is a developer who is failing to show a basic understanding of the game he is attempting to change. This is a developer who is acting on the contrary to the idea that EVE is a sandbox MMO game. This is a developer that thinks EVE is a game that players need to dedicate their whole work days simply to be able to play the game in the sense that Greyscale thinks everyone should! This is a developer that thinks it is a good idea to introduce more artificial timers to EVE to slow down players, when in reality, it was the player base that was complaining about the artificial timers that game imposed on us all along! And that developer is now proposing a change that not only will make nullsec uninhabitable except for better regions which have direct connections to empire, but will also negatively impact EVERY REGION in EVE because T2 production materials come from null. What can I say? This will not end well for CCP.
This just goes to show how out of touch the devs are with the game and more than likely why they never discussed in FULL the changes with the CSM.
I just got here the notifications are running quick on this threadnaught today.
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Mara Rinn
Cosmic Goo Convertor Cosmic Consortium
5467
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:20:00 -
[5595] - Quote
Sym Biotic wrote:Again it would take 1 month to clear a timer in a game. 1 MONTH that is if you do not jump at any time during that month. So again at what point does it stop being a game? A continuous 3 day timer, hell a continuous 1 day timer, in my book is unacceptable.
So use the gates? Scout the gates with the same alt you currently use for lighting cynos. You can move your capitals around without so much attention now since you won't be lighting up the map with cyno activity.
Day 0 advice for new players: Day 0 Advice for New Players |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
249
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:21:00 -
[5596] - Quote
BuddyKnife wrote:Kari Trace wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.
Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?
@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev I think we're here beaking the current null not because it's 2 massive empires are vibrant and happy, but because it is stale, boring and only ISBoxers log in if there isn't a timer involved. Your large empires are teh suxors and logins are proving it. Also to add one more thing. Our empire is quite vibrant and happy. We are now producing T1 and T2 modules and ships in 0.0 on a scale this game has never seen before but if these changes go through we will no longer be able to import the required materials to sustain this production. Bleh, T2 production existed in null long before JF. It's called Freighters, with combat escort. You know, actually having to protect the industrial based that makes the ships we like to make explode. I'd be happy w/ no JFs personally, but I know that won't happen. I don't think you understand the scale we are talking. I don't have exact numbers but I know we have over 2,000 reaction towers that need materials that are not from our space. That kind of logistics is not possible without the use of jump freighters and making it so you have to spend 4x the time moving things is just going to make people quit. Not to mention the effects on the economy.
Clue. That's the objective.
Effects on your economy you mean. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:22:00 -
[5597] - Quote
Owen Levanth wrote:Moisturised Esophagus wrote:90% of the people posting in favour of these changes are noob alts and hi/low sec dwellers.
Food for thought. Yeah, obviously them not living in NullSec 24/7 means they are idiots that should be ignored. If life were that easy. Luckily I'm not judging all NullSec-people by the quality of your posts. But I agree people posting on alts are another matter. Cowards should always be ignored, like a cowardly lot deserves.
My friend, he is not saying that people that don't live in null are fools. Rather, he is saying that without actually living in null, one would not have the first-hand experience regarding what, you know, living in null would entail.
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Christopher Multsanti
Bluestar Airlines
6
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:25:00 -
[5598] - Quote
I have never enjoyed large scale warfare or capital battles. I only use a carrier on an alt for moving stuff. It's very handy.
I understand the problems that have been created by large groups and them having no restriction on their range of capital deployment. I really do. But these changes punish all players. The only way these changes would work would be if you brought out a hauler type carrier with the same skill requirement as current carriers but with same bonuses as jump freighters for traveling.
In general I think these changes are far to severe. I would say a realistic time for you get help from a cap fleet half way on other side of the galaxy at 2-3 hours. Maybe tweek the fatigue calculation so that for the first example in appendix a that the guy who gave up in his carrier because his wait time was crazy. Could make that trip in 2-3 hours. The point being that journey should be possible. |
FraXy
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
21
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:25:00 -
[5599] - Quote
Archibald Thistlewaite III wrote:FraXy wrote:Moisturised Esophagus wrote:90% of the people posting in favour of these changes are noob alts and hi/low sec dwellers.
Food for thought. 90% of the people posting opposed to change wants to keep the status quo. Your point? 90% of the people posting made up statistics are fools. Ah-dammit.
Kind of was the underlying point, but v0v.
Going by the CCP responses to feedback this will go through one way or another, and it's highly amusing to see people dangling from the cliff by their fingertips while CCP stomp on them.
This change have been needed (in my opinion) for a long time to make space and deployments matter instead of being ignored completely. I will not be able to hotdrop around Akora with Ishtars anymore (hi Wessler), but that's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make for the greater good.
Fights will be forced more locally simply due to restriction of travel which will be a significant factor on where to stage, and which entity to pick fights with. It will just be a matter of leaders adopting a more aggressive diplomatic stance than the peace-pipe smoking hippy bullshit we got going on currently.
One man's junk is FraXy's choice of weapon to kill you with. |
Alp Khan
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
212
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:25:00 -
[5600] - Quote
Kari Trace wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.
Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?
@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev I think we're here beaking the current null not because it's 2 massive empires are vibrant and happy, but because it is stale, boring and only ISBoxers log in if there isn't a timer involved. Your large empires are teh suxors and logins are proving it. Also to add one more thing. Our empire is quite vibrant and happy. We are now producing T1 and T2 modules and ships in 0.0 on a scale this game has never seen before but if these changes go through we will no longer be able to import the required materials to sustain this production. Bleh, T2 production existed in null long before JF. It's called Freighters, with combat escort. You know, actually having to protect the industrial based that makes the ships we like to make explode. I'd be happy w/ no JFs personally, but I know that won't happen.
Dude, I don't think you are comprehending what is being said. We know T2 production has existed before Jump Bridges and Jump Freighters. T2 modules used to cost five to twenty times more when that was the case!
The naive expectation of 'freighters with combat escorts' is something that can only drive up costs of doing business because of more people being involved and the increased risks.
Also, such a scheme hurts the small entities and guys who are unable to secure logistical lines! |
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
193
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:26:00 -
[5601] - Quote
Frostys Virpio wrote:Their moon change to create conflict did work tho. An entire coalition was destroyed when they shuffled some moons around. Passive income is not good for the game imho. It may have stimulated conflict but things settled out and I think it's a big part of why we have large dug in power blocks today. |
DNSBLACK
Dirt Nap Squad Dirt Nap Squad.
634
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:26:00 -
[5602] - Quote
BuddyKnife wrote:Serendipity Lost wrote:BuddyKnife wrote:To all the people who say that large scale logistics is not needed or that it should be nerfed more to break up the large blocks. I am sorry to inform you this is an empire building game a large portion of the players play this game for that exact reason. If you take away our empire you take away our reason to play.
Please change back the JF and Rorqual jump range till you have fixed the T1 mineral distribution and made a meaningful attempt at making all T2 materials available in all parts of space. Maybe ring mining?
@CCPgreyscale @CCPdev I think we're here beaking the current null not because it's 2 massive empires are vibrant and happy, but because it is stale, boring and only ISBoxers log in if there isn't a timer involved. Your large empires are teh suxors and logins are proving it. Also to add one more thing. Our empire is quite vibrant and happy. We are now producing T1 and T2 modules and ships in 0.0 on a scale this game has never seen before but if these changes go through we will no longer be able to import the required materials to sustain this production.
Adapt or die. You are goons you will find a solution. Here is one load up your 1000 man mega fleet and fly them back however you chose, titan bridge, jb,gate to gate . I haven't run the numbers but I believe the cargo m3 is equal to a jump frieghter. |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1701
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:28:00 -
[5603] - Quote
Sym Biotic wrote:Kagura Nikon wrote:The Slayer wrote:Sym Biotic wrote:CCP Greyscale wrote:
Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea? Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.
At what length of time does a game stop being a game? With the timer capping at a month will we see people unsub to wait the month, since you have said that it will keep counting down while unsubbed? Jump/capital skills have already taken months/years to train only to then have potential month long cds. I think you guys should really look at a skill refund if players want it, this is a really radical change that trashed some peoples entire enjoyment of the game. To then spit in their face and tell them well just train something else then is just adding insult to injury. On a completely different note, the continuous comments pointing out player stargates being implemented seems super silly as they nerf jump bridges (player stargates 1.0). Rename it how ever you want, it just seems like poor management to add the same mechanic twice only call it something else. It baffles me that anyone would think that a system whereby you cannot engage in fleet combat in your vessel for a MONTH is acceptable or warranted. Supercapital pilots are going to be resubbed for fights and left to stagnate otherwise, moreso than they are right now. QUOTING SOMEOEN THAT CANNOT READ! The max time you can stay unable to jump is 3 days, and you need to be utter reckless to get to that level. 1 month FATIGUE does not mean 1 month TIMER to jump. Again it would take 1 month to clear a timer in a game. 1 MONTH that is if you do not jump at any time during that month. So again at what point does it stop being a game? A continuous 3 day timer, hell a continuous 1 day timer, in my book is unacceptable.
If you do not push it to extremes every day. You will never get to a full day without jumping.
Just jump and do not jump again asap. Wait ... oo you need to go further? use gates. THe changes are exaclty to promote that. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
Moisturised Esophagus
Factus sum mors vastatoris mundorum Rolling Safe
9
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:28:00 -
[5604] - Quote
Greyscale/Everyone, Let me ask you this, it's a few months from now and Elite Dangerous is out, as are these changes.
Mr. Hypothetical Eve Player has a choice, run a freighter op with his alliance for 6 hours, which he cant leave, being out in the middle of nowhere. Or Play Elite Dangerous.
Boredom or Fun Tedium or Fun How much of the benefits of this op will he see? Or Fun Soul Crushing Monotony... OR FUN
Yes i'm a naysayer, yes eve is dead bla bla, yes yes yes.
But, I know which i'm going to pick.
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Balder Verdandi
Czerka.
228
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:29:00 -
[5605] - Quote
280 pages since the new release.
That's gotta be a record.
Again, let me state for the record that CCP doesn't know how to play it's own game. POS fixes have been discussed for years, and now we have timers on capital pilots and limiting their jumps both in number of jumps and distance.
This does not make content.
This makes making content more difficult because we can't get to places we want to get to. You've just cut off a lot of null-sec.
Just ...... wow. Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"! Player Owned Station fix dated back to 2006!
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Tau Phoenix
Eternal Darkness. Get Off My Lawn
33
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:29:00 -
[5606] - Quote
Well after 280 pages of comments, views and proposals i doubt i am going to add any new views here that will be wildly different but i wasn't going to miss posting on such an epic thread.
So, time to grab the surfboard and ride the wave of change. Alternatively you can bury your heads in the sand, hold you breath and hope it washes over. |
Jethro Winchester
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
22
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:29:00 -
[5607] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:Always fascinating to hear the Goons in actions. Somehow the following two points are internally consistent:
1. The nerf to capital movement won't really hurt goons because they will just cache capitals all over their space and run 1000 man megathron and cruiser fleets to respond to challenges on the fringes of their space. Their massive numbers will also allow them to seamlessly run logistics and supply throughout their vast space, and not compel them to abandon territory.
2. The changes will lead to a massive spike in T2 prices throughout Eve (this is a bad thing? Might actually make model tiercide matter), because no one (including the vaunted Goon logistics crew from point 1. above) will be able to get moon goo to production centers. None of the many viable options, including wormholes, chains of alts, intelligent route planning, blockade runners, etc... will matter, because the whole T2 market will simply collapse in spectacular fashion.
?
The changes may not hurt their ability to hold space. But they will hurt their ability to have fun, and that extends to a good chunk of the player-base in New Eden including those in lowsec who nobody seems to remember or care about.
Those who scream "CRY MOAR FILTHY NULLBEARS TROLOLOL" have clearly not bothered to sit down and consider all of the ramifications of this.
Smaller groups will have extreme difficulty with logistics and moving will be almost out of the question unless every line member either abandons their belongings or owns a carrier and is willing to dedicate a week or more to doing nothing but jumping and staring at timers.
Logistics pilot's suicide rates will skyrocket.
Certain areas of space controlled by the larger alliances will become almost uninhabitable by anybody else because those larger alliances will have less room to branch out and thus will turn to terrorizing the everloving hell out of their immediate neighbors.
Gate camping will likely become an epidemic rivaled only by Bubonic Plague and Spanish Flu as it will be nearly impossible to effectively break the camp unless you are extremely lucky.
Obviously not everything will be doom and gloom. But I predict that most of those who currently think of these changes as the best thing to happen to EVE will quickly change their minds when they have to live with them.
Tl;dr: I predict 50% more work for 50% less fun.
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Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
251
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:29:00 -
[5608] - Quote
Alp Khan wrote:
Also, such a scheme hurts the small entities and guys who are unable to secure logistical lines!
At least that's the propaganda you're pushing today.
Like you've ever been concerned with "small entities". |
Kagura Nikon
Mentally Assured Destruction The Pursuit of Happiness
1701
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 14:31:00 -
[5609] - Quote
Moisturised Esophagus wrote:90% of the people posting in favour of these changes are noob alts and hi/low sec dwellers.
Food for thought.
food for tought.. the vast majority of those were 0.0 dwellers and LEFT 0.0 because the game got BORIGN capital ships online. And we are happy because how 0.0 will be interestign enough for us to return. "If brute force does not solve your problem..... -įthen you are -įsurely not using enough!" |
RenoIdo
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
49
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Posted - 2014.10.03 14:34:00 -
[5610] - Quote
Moisturised Esophagus wrote:Greyscale/Everyone, Let me ask you this, it's a few months from now and Elite Dangerous is out, as are these changes.
Mr. Hypothetical Eve Player has a choice, run a freighter op with his alliance for 6 hours, which he cant leave, being out in the middle of nowhere. Or Play Elite Dangerous.
Boredom or Fun Tedium or Fun How much of the benefits of this op will he see? Or Fun Soul Crushing Monotony... OR FUN
Yes i'm a naysayer, yes eve is dead bla bla, yes yes yes.
But, I know which i'm going to pick.
If you think threatening to quit over an instanced arcade space shooter will change CCP's mind you should go take a nap kid.
More people are unhappy with the stagnation of nullsec that are happy with it. All you whiners that are sad you can't drop you cap into every fight need to realise you don't need to have that cap there to have fun. Bring anything else and the game will be fun.
You don't need to drop you caps onto subcaps with 0 risk to enjoy eve you nullbears. |
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