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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13531
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:10:00 -
[6091] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Wait wait.... so you actually were pressing CCP to add JD to Mega's, and actively training JCal V while asking? Actually expecting a possible yes??
I have pulled off more unlikely things in the past It did kinda pay off so I guess I can call this a victory in my obsession (stubbornness) in getting oversized ships to do strange and seemingly impossible things. And there it is. The backpeddling. Even more delicious than tears.
The hell am I meant to be back peddling from? Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Sigras
Conglomo
916
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:10:00 -
[6092] - Quote
MonkeyBusiness Thiesant wrote:Mona Me wrote:Thead Enco wrote:ThreadAtar Update:For anyone that's interested feel free to take the following Straw Poll Bump for the straw poll. There's already one, with a lot more votes: http://strawpoll.me/2686971/r Taking things like these down to a straw poll is making two huge assumptions:
1. The common player knows what is best for the game as a whole - Im dubious... This assumption is doubtful at best 2. If the common player knew what was best for the game was in conflict with what was best for him, he would choose what is best for the game - This assumption is known to be false because people are selfish.
TL;DR It doesnt matter what the players want, what matters is what is best for the game. |
HiddenPorpoise
Under Dark Sins of our Fathers
269
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:11:00 -
[6093] - Quote
For those watching the numbers: literally everyone that lives in null could quit and CCP could still pay the rent. That's why they're willing to do something like this. And not everyone in null will quit, no matter what they do. And what void does appear will be filled within a month.
So I repeat: Balkanize everything. |
Joachim Weiss
Origin. Black Legion.
11
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:11:00 -
[6094] - Quote
Kalissis wrote:Joachim Weiss wrote:Kalissis wrote:
Do the math please, its exactly how it is now, there is very little fatigue for moving close ranges.
But if I'm not mistaken, under the current proposal, all jumps are considered the same in terms of location and cool down. I think that you should have free and unpenalized movement within a constellation, and only a small if any cool down to change constellations within a region, but heavily deterred in changing regions with a cool down timer. The cool downs should be location based, not range based. It would solve the problem of every day logistics within a home region, not burden a logistics pilot with a cool down for a fleet later that requires he fly a carrier or dread, while making rapid movement map wide much longer. If the goal is to promote using the space you're currently in, there should be relatively unrestricted movement range/cool down time within realistic ranges, not arbitrary distances. The strategy will be to do your logistics before any timers like 12h before so even ~20ly distances are cooled down. Sure logistics will need to adopt but what CCP is trying to do is to stop making EVE into an "instant action" game, there a hundrets of online games better suited for that. And I think you will find that those changes are also benificial for groups like BL with minor adjustments, because once you deploy to a region you will be able to do your "hot drops" in that region, just plan a little ahead and create rules for logistics/fight drops. On the other hand you will see groups like Black Frog Fright created, adopt and evolve, that will be there to help with your burden of all day logistics.
I think the spirit of the changes is in the right direction, I just feel it is too heavy handed in treating jumping in general as a bad thing. I thought the issue we all rallied against was larger capital alliances projecting their influence, not groups participating in unrestricted capital warfare within a region. I'm not so worried about timers, many of the most exciting things to happen to eve have been spur of the moment occasions that everyone remembers, and the ability to participate in ones that occur in your region should be something that is promoted, not potentially penalized the same way as someone who tries to travel across the universe to get there. Make it a sov upgrade so that constellation has a reduced/no penalty, it'll help differentiate NPC null from Sov null and make owning space more valuable, and easier to live in, while not affecting capitals ability outside of its influence.
Not all space is equally distant. By making the cool downs location instead of distance based, it treats all systems with the same level of influence instead of making certain regions of space undesirable to live in compared to a much denser region. These changes are a perfect opportunity to not only stop unreasonable power projection, but a massive boost to a more local system.
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Jethro Winchester
Collapsed Out Overload Everything
35
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:11:00 -
[6095] - Quote
Ninteen Seventy-Nine wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:
Wait wait.... so you actually were pressing CCP to add JD to Mega's, and actively training JCal V while asking? Actually expecting a possible yes??
I have pulled off more unlikely things in the past It did kinda pay off so I guess I can call this a victory in my obsession (stubbornness) in getting oversized ships to do strange and seemingly impossible things. And there it is. The backpeddling. Even more delicious than tears.
The only reason you aren't right there with him is because you're too ignorant and shortsighted to think beyond your "Grr Goons" mentality. Give it a couple of months of the new normal and you'll be begging CCP to fix it.
|
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
481
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:13:00 -
[6096] - Quote
300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.
What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"? |
KIller Wabbit
The Scope Gallente Federation
791
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:13:00 -
[6097] - Quote
remus wulf wrote:Seems CCP stopped reading this at page 200 so this seems to be just a debate between ourselves at this point.
Maybe time to lock the thread if CCP have stopped reading the feedback they asked for !
Can't lock it - mods are directing all other threads to here CCP .. always first with the wrong stuff CSM .. CCP Shills with a vacation plan
|
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
226
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:13:00 -
[6098] - Quote
Dany Targaryen wrote:As a player who lives in null sec and relies on jump bridges to get around this is a terrible change.
I've been playing since beta and this by far is the worst thing you've done to your game since... well ever... You know... you there is these things called "Stargates". You can use them to get to other systems - even in nullsec. Pretty sure they existed even in the beta. |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
207
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:14:00 -
[6099] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much
I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end?
That's some serious hyperbole.
The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi.
How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way? |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
548
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:16:00 -
[6100] - Quote
Zhul Chembull wrote:Ill just do a spreadsheet, (we play eve after all) and do a peek test daily and compare it to current peak subscription. If the sample polls here are indicative of what the masses will do. We all know some will leave right when it happens and some will come when it happens, it may be better to do a comparative analysis 3 months down the road after the update, then again under its current conception I wont be here. I will do my best to do some statistics on this.
Sold. I'm betting Nosy Gamer will probably be looking at similar data.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
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Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
208
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:16:00 -
[6101] - Quote
BTW, about 250 of these 300 pages are full of people who have no idea how supply and demand influence pricing.
When something gets hard, people stop, until the incentive is worth the risk.
Black Frog can probably multiply their prices by 10x, and some chunk of their group is going to become space rich servicing exactly the people others are saying cannot possibly be serviced. I bet their volume goes up, not down. |
Jessica Duranin
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
227
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:16:00 -
[6102] - Quote
remus wulf wrote:Seems CCP stopped reading this at page 200 so this seems to be just a debate between ourselves at this point.
Maybe time to lock the thread if CCP have stopped reading the feedback they asked for ! Why? CCP has a place where they can ignore the jumpbears and people like me can still harvest the tears. I'd call that a pretty elegant solution.
|
MeBiatch
GRR GOONS
1968
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:17:00 -
[6103] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.
What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"?
Clearly we meant them....and not us... duh There are no stupid Questions... just stupid people... CCP Goliath wrote:
Ugh ti-di pooping makes me sad. |
Kalissis
95
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:17:00 -
[6104] - Quote
Joachim Weiss wrote:Kalissis wrote:Joachim Weiss wrote:Kalissis wrote:
Do the math please, its exactly how it is now, there is very little fatigue for moving close ranges.
But if I'm not mistaken, under the current proposal, all jumps are considered the same in terms of location and cool down. I think that you should have free and unpenalized movement within a constellation, and only a small if any cool down to change constellations within a region, but heavily deterred in changing regions with a cool down timer. The cool downs should be location based, not range based. It would solve the problem of every day logistics within a home region, not burden a logistics pilot with a cool down for a fleet later that requires he fly a carrier or dread, while making rapid movement map wide much longer. If the goal is to promote using the space you're currently in, there should be relatively unrestricted movement range/cool down time within realistic ranges, not arbitrary distances. The strategy will be to do your logistics before any timers like 12h before so even ~20ly distances are cooled down. Sure logistics will need to adopt but what CCP is trying to do is to stop making EVE into an "instant action" game, there a hundrets of online games better suited for that. And I think you will find that those changes are also benificial for groups like BL with minor adjustments, because once you deploy to a region you will be able to do your "hot drops" in that region, just plan a little ahead and create rules for logistics/fight drops. On the other hand you will see groups like Black Frog Fright created, adopt and evolve, that will be there to help with your burden of all day logistics. I think the spirit of the changes is in the right direction, I just feel it is too heavy handed in treating jumping in general as a bad thing. I thought the issue we all rallied against was larger capital alliances projecting their influence, not groups participating in unrestricted capital warfare within a region. I'm not so worried about timers, many of the most exciting things to happen to eve have been spur of the moment occasions that everyone remembers, and the ability to participate in ones that occur in your region should be something that is promoted, not potentially penalized the same way as someone who tries to travel across the universe to get there. Make it a sov upgrade so that constellation has a reduced/no penalty, it'll help differentiate NPC null from Sov null and make owning space more valuable, and easier to live in, while not affecting capitals ability outside of its influence. Not all space is equally distant. By making the cool downs location instead of distance based, it treats all systems with the same level of influence instead of making certain regions of space undesirable to live in compared to a much denser region. These changes are a perfect opportunity to not only stop unreasonable power projection, but a massive boost to a more local system.
Well, I guess we will see how it plays out. I'm looking forward to it. And I think its the best for the game even if some belive those changes are too harsh, they need to be, so possible gaps left for abuse are minimized. |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
218
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:17:00 -
[6105] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.
What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"?
THis is an internet jihad against the False CCP Messiah Yar! Captain Neckbeard!
We're saving the game! You can't adapt if the game is dead...
CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
208
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:18:00 -
[6106] - Quote
Red Bluesteel wrote:CCP if you really do it with these changes, then Eve will be a 100% Dead Game in 6-8 Weeks The following changes are acceptable for me:
- Keep all Jump Ranges as they are
- acceptable Jump fatigue = 2min (Standard) + 30sec per 0.5 Ly
- after running out of this Cool down, Fatigue must be reseted. No Multiplications with old Fatigues.
e.g. 1: If you have to travel 3 Max Jumps with an 5/5 skilled Archon (14.624 Ly), your total Fatigue will be 3*(2min+15min) = 51min. e.g. 2: If you have to travel 2 Jumps, 1st 10,4 Ly and 2nd 5,8 Ly, your total Fatigue will be: 2min+10,5min and 2min+6min = 20,5min. I think that should be fair enough to be not an grand total Nurf and to travel even more will not be pain in the ass of a lifetime job.
Don't let the door hit you in the Rhea on the way out. |
Kalissis
95
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:18:00 -
[6107] - Quote
Sizeof Void wrote:300+ pages. Looks like null sec has proved conclusively that we can out-whine the whiniest high sec carebears. How disillusioning.
What happened to HTFU and "adapt or die"?
QFT |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
2565
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:19:00 -
[6108] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Dany Targaryen wrote:As a player who lives in null sec and relies on jump bridges to get around this is a terrible change.
I've been playing since beta and this by far is the worst thing you've done to your game since... well ever... You know... there are these things called "Stargates". You can use them to get to other systems - even in nullsec. Pretty sure they existed even in the beta. "Stargates are for peasants"
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baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13531
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:20:00 -
[6109] - Quote
Gospadin wrote: Don't let the door hit you in the Rhea on the way out.
Get out. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
218
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:20:00 -
[6110] - Quote
Gospadin wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much
I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end? That's some serious hyperbole. The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi. How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way?
Does Walking In Stations count? CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf |
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ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:21:00 -
[6111] - Quote
ShahFluffers wrote:Hooray! Maybe there will be less PL and SCUM hotdropping shenanigans in low-sec after this!
Getting dropped by 10+ supercarriers from the outer reaches of null-sec because you have 5 battleships in a 20 man gang of cruisers and frigates is just bad. I had a buddy in a lone cruiser that went to defend a lone miner that was getting attacked by a red cruiser get hot dropped by a PL super cap fleet. There were 7 supers on his loss mail for a lone T1 cruiser.
It may be over doing it but it was funny as hell I have to admit. |
baltec1
Bat Country Goonswarm Federation
13531
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:23:00 -
[6112] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Gospadin wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much
I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end? That's some serious hyperbole. The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi. How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way? Does Walking In Stations count?
Not even close the the fuckup that was the NGE. Join Bat Country today and defend the Glorious Socialist Dictatorship |
Kassasis Dakkstromri
Bull and Vitleysa
218
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:26:00 -
[6113] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Gospadin wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much
I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end? That's some serious hyperbole. The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi. How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way? Does Walking In Stations count? Not even close the the fuckup that was the NGE.
Kk but SOE never Boot.ini'd it's players and blew up their computers.
But yeah there is not *direct* comparison to that nightmare and this.... but the scars... oh the scars they're enough to make a player unsubb anyway. CCP you are bad at EVE... Stop potential silliness ~ Solo Wulf |
Bob TSlob
Happy Endings. Happy Endings
13
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:27:00 -
[6114] - Quote
Thanks for the tears CCP. This may kill the game, but doing nothing would be worse. I hope the game survives because 0.0 might be fun again. |
ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
196
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:28:00 -
[6115] - Quote
Rowells wrote:ergherhdfgh wrote:Rowells wrote:
A healthy local economy will most like provide the materials it can produce to its pilots (plenty of T1 ships) while the materials that cannot be procured there will either be found in highsec or in agreements with local groups. Keep in mind not every need will be met and this will create shortages on certain supplies and possible surpluses for others. Those are what should be traded. Because logistics just became harder, not impossible.
I've lived in null under several different situations some deep some close to high sec some with start up renters and once with a big well established Alliance in a -1.0 station. I've never seen a local economy in null that was healthy enough to not need regular trips to high sec. I've seen nothing in the industrial patch that will change that to any large degree. I think both you and Greyscale are missing some basic concepts of how the human brain works as well as some social concepts that you are ignoring. Yes to some degree what you said here will need to happen and will happen no doubt about that. What I am saying here is that the net affect of these changes barring some other huge bombshell game changer that they drop on us will be less active null and null activity being exponentially inverse to it's distance beyond 5 LY from a HS gate system. Those examples were under the current system. Things being spuer-mass produced in highsec+relatively cheap movement of materials made it extremely easy for industrialists to do everything themselves. Some people would even ship their materials to highsec to get quicker deals. As logistic costs go up, youll see an oppurtunity grow for local production to pick up on those profits. Will there likely be an overall increase in everything dealing with nullsec? very likely. And i think that the aspect of materials and rewards in null needs to be looked at again after the changes. I think you are missing the point. I'm saying that the relatively cheap movement of goods is what allowed for the population levels in null without it I think that population will decrease. I think you are saying that when cheap freight goes away that population will stay roughly the same or go up and local suppuly will pick up the slack. I guess we'll see who's closer to correct in a few months.
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Kalissis
97
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:30:00 -
[6116] - Quote
Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:Gospadin wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:We agree thing need fixing - but this is tooooooo much
I've lived through, in a different game, the fundamentally changing a game while it's LIVE.... you might be getting more than you want in the end? That's some serious hyperbole. The SWG equivalent would be if CCP removed all blueprints/industry and gave everyone any item they wanted for 100 isk like on SiSi. How many 11 year old games other than EVE have survived without making major changes along the way? Does Walking In Stations count? Not even close the the fuckup that was the NGE. Kk but SOE never Boot.ini'd it's players and blew up their computers. But yeah there is not *direct* comparison to that nightmare and this.... but the scars... oh the scars they're enough to make a player unsubb anyway.
I will say this once to you: your blue donut is losing the argument, your self created boredom is coming to an end, go sit in TIDI while you can and please stop shitposting in here.
CCP is making the right decision, saving the game. |
Sigras
Conglomo
916
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:31:00 -
[6117] - Quote
Jessica Duranin wrote:Dany Targaryen wrote:As a player who lives in null sec and relies on jump bridges to get around this is a terrible change.
I've been playing since beta and this by far is the worst thing you've done to your game since... well ever... You know... there are these things called "Stargates". You can use them to get to other systems - even in nullsec. Pretty sure they existed even in the beta. If he really was a beta player, he would remember that the beta didnt have jump bridges, or jump drives, or jump freighters, or regular freighters, or any other cap ship...
He would remember that 0.0 functioned just fine out there, even before POSs.
He would remember that the game worked fine partially because it wasnt hot drop o'clock 23.5/7 |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
208
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:31:00 -
[6118] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Kun'ii Zenya wrote: So again. This might promote some more roaming (undoubtedly a good thing) but I don't see it really changing things much, at least on the western side of the map.
Agreed. Western side of the map is going to be locked down pretty hard. There are only two entrances to Cloud Ring from low sec - both over 5 AU away. VERY easy to lock down. You can jump to Cloud Ring from Alparena, but it will be impossible to set up any sort of supply lines needed to win an "occupancy war" with your alliance. Maybe they change sov to "Actity Based" in which case at least your guys will log in every day and pew rather than not log in at all for months at a time. That's a good thing, right?
What does locked down mean, when you can't cyno inhibit a gate?
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Rhamnousia Nosferatu
marooned.
36
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:32:00 -
[6119] - Quote
Is this the longest thread ever on eve-o forums? Just wondering |
Gospadin
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
208
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 21:35:00 -
[6120] - Quote
Esrevid Nekkeg wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:baltec1 wrote:Kassasis Dakkstromri wrote:You know if you turn the number 300 vertically it kinda does look like a ASCII version of poopsocking.... which you fanboi's should be expecting do a lot of if your still planning on flying Capitals! 300 YOu see it too right? Funny thing here is that I am now training for a dread because of the changes. That's something I never expected to do.. Enjoy that training grind for Jump Cal V so you can get your way awesome 5 LY jump range m8 No problem, already there,,, And with so many apparently quitting, it only means people like me will be in higher demand. Well, at least my JF services
exactly, and good luck to you and your new empire |
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