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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1464
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 06:39:00 -
[7171] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Rowells wrote:We gotta be at least somewhat realistic. Understand that their will always be groups that are way out of your league (I have no illusions my alliance will suddenly turn on goons and emerge victorious.) Already smarter than certain warmongers in Test, I see. Though to be honest it wouldn't be an alliance-on-alliance fight, you know the whole coalition would get in on that thing. thats why its called the CFC |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6418
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 06:50:00 -
[7172] - Quote
Rowells wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Rowells wrote:We gotta be at least somewhat realistic. Understand that their will always be groups that are way out of your league (I have no illusions my alliance will suddenly turn on goons and emerge victorious.) Already smarter than certain warmongers in Test, I see. Though to be honest it wouldn't be an alliance-on-alliance fight, you know the whole coalition would get in on that thing. thats why its called the CFC But if you had N3 PLBL Moa Pasta and so on third-partying...
Then victory would be nigh inevitable. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1464
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 06:57:00 -
[7173] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Rowells wrote:Alavaria Fera wrote:Rowells wrote:We gotta be at least somewhat realistic. Understand that their will always be groups that are way out of your league (I have no illusions my alliance will suddenly turn on goons and emerge victorious.) Already smarter than certain warmongers in Test, I see. Though to be honest it wouldn't be an alliance-on-alliance fight, you know the whole coalition would get in on that thing. thats why its called the CFC But if you had N3 PLBL Moa Pasta and so on third-partying... Then victory would be nigh inevitable. B-R MkII anyone? |
Mocam
EVE University Ivy League
470
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 07:02:00 -
[7174] - Quote
t'raq mardon wrote:C'Nedra Rain wrote:[quote=Makari Aeron] Quote:Upon further research into this topic, I find it impossibly easy for anyone in EVE to bypass this proposed feature. Let me explain.
A player needs to go to his/her staging system. Said staging system is 20ly away, or 4 jumps. Normally, this would take quite some time as Jump Fatigue would kick in for the pilot. However, this pilot has 4 alts (A, B, C, and D) besides the main character. All pilots can fly his/her carrier and has max jump skills. Instead of taking quite a bit of game time and risk getting to the staging system, this pilot simply pre-stages his/her alts in the systems ahead of time using nearly uncatchable interceptors. As such, the carrier gets to the staging system as such: you miss something very important !! Now, because of the LY limitations you need more than 12 jumps to do the job and ofc nobody has 12 trained cap pilot alts to do what you say. Even you! also, thats not a ridiculously long and expensive proposition at all. 12 alts all capable of flying [insert capital class here] with perfect jump skills. $45 per month for the three extra accounts and like 6 months per alt just to get trained...
Look at your numbers. $45 a month extra for 3 more accounts. Not quite.
It's $15 a month per char per account to train them all (plex alts on the accounts) - so 11 more chars = $15 per = $165 more needed per month to get 11 more capital pilots.
Also 6 months: 6 x 165 = $990 ... You also won't have all of them UNTIL 6 months are done.
Trim costs and such as you like but you're going to have a ton of "no way in hell" in every SOV empire among cap pilots about such a "grand scheme work around!"
As such, other methods will be needed - especially for the first 6 months (and no, there aren't thousands of 'cap ready' vet chars on the bazaar).
So your empires won't be set to face this and it will be months on end to even get a few capable of pulling off such a stunt. It will literally require broader strategic planning than such a solution being as few players are going to find the extra costs acceptable.
Will they find other ways? Probably but not as broadly used as they currently are.
Also - with "staging areas"... These will become known. If you move 1,000 cap pilots across space, you won't be able to get them back to the other end before being eviscerated there once others see you cannot bounce-back to protect that area.
So every time you bounce a large population of cap pilots to this or that "depot" - you expose the fact you do *NOT* have the ability to guard your flank anymore.
All it takes to see this: Map -> Pilots docked... pilots in station.
It'll be no less regularly checked than "ships destroyed... pods killed.." for normal travel so trying to play sneaky & quick -- you'll need a hell of a lot more than 12 alts for that. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6418
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Posted - 2014.10.06 07:07:00 -
[7175] - Quote
Mocam wrote:Also - with "staging areas"... These will become known. If you move 1,000 cap pilots across space, you won't be able to get them back to the other end before being eviscerated there once others see you cannot bounce-back to protect that area.
So every time you bounce a large population of cap pilots to this or that "depot" - you expose the fact you do *NOT* have the ability to guard your flank anymore. Wait, you're saying pilots can't interceptor back before a 2day IHUB armor timer?
Now certainly, it is nice for subcaps to be more important, even if only because the apexforce can't always be there.
Instead of caps/subcaps, let us think of it as battleships and megabattleships ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
1573
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 07:13:00 -
[7176] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote: Wait, you're saying pilots can't interceptor back before a 2day IHUB armor timer?
Now certainly, it is nice for subcaps to be more important, even if only because the apexforce can't always be there.
Instead of caps/subcaps, let us think of it as battleships and megabattleships
You did read the stage 2 & 3 plans which are to reduce those 'mega timers' and put more objectives in a system that are smaller right? And even allow for partial control of a system with one alliance holding some assets and the other alliance holding the other assets? That's probably where the other stuff comes in and ties in with these changes. |
Migui X'hyrrn
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
145
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Posted - 2014.10.06 07:16:00 -
[7177] - Quote
The butthurt is real.
The more I read the changes, the more I like them. Sure some things need to be polished, but overall is good.
Keep spinning, it is hilarious. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6418
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 07:22:00 -
[7178] - Quote
Migui X'hyrrn wrote:The butthurt is real.
The more I read the changes, the more I like them. Sure some things need to be polished, but overall is good.
Keep spinning, it is hilarious. Ship spinning in station eh ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Asuka Solo
Stark Fujikawa Stark Enterprises
2705
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 07:52:00 -
[7179] - Quote
Stargate jump fatigue for sub caps anyone?
Maybe even prevent ships with gate fatigue from burning back to gates to get out of possible gate camps... after all... jumping into systems and being "stuck" there is both good and desirable for a PvP game.... Eve is about Capital ships, WiS, Boobs, PI and Isk! |
Berry Myotis
GBTeam C0VEN
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 08:06:00 -
[7180] - Quote
5ly jump limitation will be pain in the ass, but the rest of ideas look very interestig. It should generate more action in null sec for sure :) |
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Migui X'hyrrn
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
146
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Posted - 2014.10.06 08:12:00 -
[7181] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Ship spinning in station eh
No i mean the oh we love this changes we are stronger than ever pls ccp nerf us because we have everything spin.
Without the next iteration steps. You only need to see the sell forums to see that the butthurt is real. Those guys selling titans like if they were sausages. This are the best tears we have seen in years, and it is only the begining.
I love you Greyscale. |
BravoSierra
Common Sense Ltd Nulli Secunda
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 08:23:00 -
[7182] - Quote
These changes are amazing, I couldn't have dreamed of a better thread. Thanks, CCP.
Guess I need to sub a new alt or something... +1 account?
(Some map changes down the road would make me so, so happy) |
Chow Draconis
Silver Star Federation Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 08:44:00 -
[7183] - Quote
No CCP. If you do this, it would take days if not weeks for ppl to transport their goods somewhere and if you lower the JF ranges them you just made it impossible for some places to be lived in. There is one jump that my JF character takes that if the range is lowered he can no longer make it because all the other jumps will be through places that the JF can not dock at. There will be no more safe routes for Capitals anymore and congrats bucause if this happen then the price for all Capitals will be raised very high because of all the loses. |
Dart Aurel
Space Roar Babylon 5..
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 08:53:00 -
[7184] - Quote
Change in general is pretty nice. But reducing range for JF will kill logistic to distant regions: no one will make 25 jumps for a single JF run. For me that means I'll have to leave nullsec and get to high-/low-, which indeed means quitting the game.
CCP, please, don't reduce jump range for JFs. |
Elsa Hayes
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
40
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Posted - 2014.10.06 08:59:00 -
[7185] - Quote
t'raq mardon wrote:Elsa Hayes wrote:t'raq mardon wrote:[quote=Bl1SkR1N].......
Do you know the concept of scouts? Do you also realize that this will create plenty of fights when people break up such gate camps to get their freighters through or just to break up those camps? Do you realize that suddenly EvE gets back to necessary player interaction in null and not alts online? All concepts alien to those who do not want to defend the space they are using who do not want to interact with others who do not join ops or CTA. In short all concepts alien to the true null bears. This is why plenty of renters are crying and plenty of bitter vets are excited about this. with a 40+ second align time a scout can really only do so much, especially when any choke point system that cuts that much travel off of a logy chain is going to be camped 23/7. thats the whole point, big alliances will be able to break a camp, small alliances won't player interaction won't be necessary, it will be moot. unless you have the resources to build massive cap fleets in place or move them via gates with support you won't be able to hold space. There won't be any small gangs because they will get blapped by locals in capitals who will be confident that they won't loose their ships. by bitter vets you must mean players who are part of alliances large enough to build cap fleets all over the map and have them in reserve for when they eventually have someone to fight. This change is going to take things right back to the days of BoB, untouchable super alliances that only die when they cascade from within
The scout will tell you if its safe to jump or not and if you are clever you use more than 1 scout, you will have scouts out several systems away, obviously that will be a little more stressful to coordinate if you want to do it all on your own with alts, which is where player interaction comes into play, spank your corp mates to help, hell spank your ally mates to help you. Do I have to tell you how to play the game, how to adapt?
If the gate is camped either break the camp or wait some time. That is how null sec was supposed to work, people just got lazy over the years with jump bridges, jump freighters etc.
If you are camped organize a break out, oh dear a fight, we can-Št have that. Even if you don-Št want to move freighters you can break said camps or set up some yourself, again creating fights, creating content but again, fights we don-Št want them do we? We want to run anoms 23/7, rat 23/7 and sell our phat lewt in Jita.
Which bring me back as to why the null bears cry about the changes and the bitter vets are largely excited about it, since if there is one thing for sure it is that these changes will create fights! Will they truly shake up null? Who knows but they will make things more interesting.
But again fighting is obviously, judging by all the rage and tears, the last thing the null bear wants. |
Max Deveron
Deveron Shipyards and Technology
38
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:08:00 -
[7186] - Quote
Chow Draconis wrote:No CCP. If you do this, it would take days if not weeks for ppl to transport their goods somewhere and if you lower the JF ranges them you just made it impossible for some places to be lived in. There is one jump that my JF character takes that if the range is lowered he can no longer make it because all the other jumps will be through places that the JF can not dock at. There will be no more safe routes for Capitals anymore and congrats bucause if this happen then the price for all Capitals will be raised very high because of all the loses.
Guess your going to have to convince your peeps to provide escort...and yes that means someone or i should say a group of someones will have to babysit your JF in some circumstances.
EvE i believe is meant to be a multiplayer-team effort at some levels...being able to take your 6 accounts plus JF pilot and move stuff by yourself is just not going to cut anymore. Your in an alliance....im sure leaders will come up with a plan of action. |
Balder Verdandi
Czerka.
231
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:22:00 -
[7187] - Quote
Max Deveron wrote:Guess your going to have to convince your peeps to provide escort...and yes that means someone or i should say a group of someones will have to babysit your JF in some circumstances.
EvE i believe is meant to be a multiplayer-team effort at some levels...being able to take your 6 accounts plus JF pilot and move stuff by yourself is just not going to cut anymore. Your in an alliance....im sure leaders will come up with a plan of action.
Sorry my friend, but most JF moves have escorts already, and I don't mean cyno alts.
What this will do is force a lot of folks to have JF alts. With the amount of time required to skill a JF alt, not considering the cost of subscriptions and skill books, this is going to upset enough people that JF's will either crash in price or increase to maddening heights.
There is also the flip side to this, meaning that some jumps that are more than 5 LY's distance between systems will no longer be in range because they're more than the limit. Querious and Impass are two regions I know that simply trying to jump into or out of will now become impossible because even the closest solar systems are more distant than 5 LY.
Of course there is the conspiracy theory that CCP wants those regions to add more NPC systems and stations, but this would effectively rob the system owners of their SOV.
Long live the failure of "Unified Inventory"! Player Owned Station fix dated back to 2006!
|
gascanu
Bearing Srl.
194
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:28:00 -
[7188] - Quote
Elsa Hayes wrote:Do you know the concept of scouts? Do you also realize that this will create plenty of fights when people break up such gate camps to get their freighters through or just to break up those camps? Do you realize that suddenly EvE gets back to necessary player interaction in null and not alts online? All concepts alien to those who do not want to defend the space they are using who do not want to interact with others who do not join ops or CTA. In short all concepts alien to the true null bears. This is why plenty of renters are crying and plenty of bitter vets are excited about this.
i'm sorry, are you guys really ******** or what? do you even play this game? " fights to get their freighters trough?" there is no way a freighter should get even close to a fight, and even that only if you **** up badlly; tell me again how you scout a cloaked cyno hic? or even a a cyno bomber? what will you do, when you jump your freigther convoy tru a gate, and a cyno hic uncloak,bubble up, open a cyno and drop, lets say, several dreads? dead freighters, that's what happens, and no amount of reps will allow you to keep those freighters alive... like really, do you guys even know that today a freighter's warp speed is much slower that it was when freighter convoys where a thing? that at the time there weren't bubble immune ships, hics, throwaway dreads,40k ppl online, bazilions of spays... any small group that will do "freighter convoys" to get into 0.0, deserve to lose them, and they will
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Guttripper
State War Academy Caldari State
551
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:30:00 -
[7189] - Quote
Ahhh page 360 - has this thread gone full circle? |
Migui X'hyrrn
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
151
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:32:00 -
[7190] - Quote
The butthurt comes because you want to keep doing the same things with this nerf, which is not possible.
Find the ways to exploit the new mechanics. Players will always overcome any nerf. Metagame is still there.
Adapt or unsub/biomass. |
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Ro Fenrios
Armilies corporation Gatekeepers Universe
23
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:46:00 -
[7191] - Quote
While this is certainly going to make my life in null sec harder, or even temporarily force me out of there, I sure approve these changes. Maybe null sec can be null sec soon. |
Xeovar Stoner
LOST IDEA C0VEN
4
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:51:00 -
[7192] - Quote
Ahh, the whine is strong with these ones...
CCP, dont give up, you are going right direction !
Yes, you might end up limiting JFs to a bit more than 5 LY, but for the game's sake DO NOT FALTER.
We are counting on you to make this game HARDER once again, instead of dumbing it down like you did for last years.
And now, we'll see who adapts and who goes back to WoW (which again will make average IQ rise in both games, as it should be).
Keep going strong, and after the jump drives get to fixing the sov mechanics - asap :)
GLGH |
CPuiu
Tilica Nation
4
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:54:00 -
[7193] - Quote
Why are people making such long post. It isn't exactly rocket science.
this will make caps less safe and they will have to use gates if they want to jump long distances in null. smaller fights will happen more often because the bigger alliance can't bring in all of their caps as fast as before. escorts will finally be much more useful. hopefully this update will help the cap industry. there are just way too many ships in the game right now. smaller fights between alliance/corps will happen more often. we'll see caps in low sec more often.
all of these changes are for the good of the game. |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
412
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 09:59:00 -
[7194] - Quote
Guttripper wrote:Ahhh page 360 - has this thread gone full circle?
It went more like this: http://i.imgur.com/ppaaJRN.png |
Adrie Atticus
Shadows of Rebellion The Bastion
412
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:01:00 -
[7195] - Quote
CPuiu wrote:Why are people making such long post. It isn't exactly rocket science.
this will make caps less safe and they will have to use gates if they want to jump long distances in null. smaller fights will happen more often because the bigger alliance can't bring in all of their caps as fast as before. escorts will finally be much more useful. hopefully this update will help the cap industry. there are just way too many ships in the game right now. smaller fights between alliance/corps will happen more often. we'll see caps in low sec more often.
all of these changes are for the good of the game.
Caps move at the same speed as subcaps with a few implants or lowslots and rigs, stupid fits exist to make them align in 10 seconds and warp with cruisers. Your run-of-the-mill logistics will be capital, not size-appropriate. |
TheFairyClinkerBell
The Fork Clever Use of Neutral Toons
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:09:00 -
[7196] - Quote
I'm not part of a larger entity that has a logistics network in place nor do I have the resources to assemble or fund mercenaries to provide escort services on the
I've spent quite a bit of time since the devblog was released trying to figure out how it will impact me and where I currently choose to live, which happens to be NPC Null. I like it here, there are many other corporations or alliances that I have met thanks to moving out here but unfortunately I'm not blue to any of them. I have met some of their industrialists and have built up a network and contacts that are of benefit.
My actions comprise two things, moon goo reacting and the stocking of T1/T2 modules in my local station to form a "market hub". I know others do it in other systems but I've worked hard to be competitive as well as stock anything that might be useful. It's taken a lot of time and effort to do this and numerous JF runs to and from high sec.The reactions help finance the market by providing the ISK I use to buy materials or minerals I do not have or cannot get locally.
Source Locally
What can I source locally is very little, I've tried because it makes sense to make as much locally from what I can get locally to lower transport costs and it helps foster co-operation or goodwill which, in EVE Online, is always a good thing.
However show-stopper issues I've encountered are:
- Entities here that extract or react do not want to sell to me because I'm "red" to them or (and this is probably the biggest reason) its more profitable to sell in Jita.
- Minerals I can mine and/or get from hauler spawns that are combined with what I bought here when I moved out here. T2 materials I cannot get out here, they just aren't available or are so overpriced that buying them reduces any profit to nil.
- Raw materials are extracted by various groups, larger alliances have bullied their way to controlling the high end moons and don't sell to the local market, they export too.
After any changes its potentially going to see ownership of towers mining moon goo change but I don't think it will as they're already run by alt corporations and whilst they'll have similar issues they'll have a larger logistics network behind them from their parent alliances.
In short I cannot function where I live now without access to high sec via JF's. I do weekly runs to Jita to buy what I need and to sell what I cannot use/sell locally. It takes me two jumps to get to high sec space and two to get back. No more than 10 minutes in real time.
Right now I have three options available to me:
- stay and lose all access to high sec
- leave NPC Null I live in and return to high sec
- move to low sec
None of these appeal to me, I want to stay where I am doing what I do because I enjoy it but I cannot do this without access to high sec via a JF. Reducing the range of JF to
After Phoebe
After the changes this would change to at least 6 jumps to get out and 6 more to get back, with a few issues:
- Going through sov space owned by three different hostile entities where I cannot dock and, because I'm in a JF, cannot cloak to remain hidden.
- Gates provide no benefit either as the only gates I could use are already heavily camped and a JF would just be a larger meal for them. Speaking to my CEO he even expected that even the systems around these would see a significant increase in gate-camps after the changes.
- Cannot increase my cap recharging ability with Flux Coils or Relays/Rechargers because you cannot fit these to a JF
- Even if I was able to use hostile systems without issue, I don't have enough cyno characters to run the network I need and adding new ones will require new accounts which I cannot fund via PLEX and don't want to do just for "cyno characters". Its not financial sense.
- Moving cyno characters between locations could be done, but I'd have to figure losing ships regularly and once people see cyno characters they are monitored and my jump network becomes fatal to use.
And what is going to happen to Jump Drive Calibration skill. All it does is extend my range for jumps, which would be made pointless once the maximum jump range was fixed to 5ly. Will it change to something new (fuel reduction... oh wait Jump Fuel Conservation does that)?
What Could Help Instead
- change jump range for all ships EXCEPT the JF/CIS ones. Leave them as they are with extended range and then in the next releases build changes that would make it more worthwhile to sell locally rather than export to high sec.
- jump fatigue is a good idea and should be implemented but if you must do something with JF/CIS decrease the bonus to these from 10% to 50%/75%. Sure will take longer to do some runs but at least I can do the runs on my own.
- possibly adding more gates in and around NPC Null locations that would lessen the number of jumps needed or the need to use a hostile entities sov space for mid-points
99% of what I saw in the devblog I agreed was good but what I don't agree is good is pigeon-holing JF's with combat jump drive. As I've said, I'm a small cog in a larger universe but a major change like this will kill my ability to do most of what I do now and what I've achieved. I'm not alone as there are lots of smaller industrialists who are like myself without the backing or support of a large alliance.
Please reconsider the jump range change for Phoebe, even a delay of a couple of releases would give us smaller guys a fighting chance. The changes to Freighters and Jump Freighters previously took time to evolve and settle, but they aren't as extreme or game changing as what you are proposing for the end of November (less than two months). |
Almethea
Trans Stellar Express
167
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:14:00 -
[7197] - Quote
W Sherman Elric wrote:there has to be a map adjustment to go along with this. also just my opinion but blops should be excluded from jump fatigue might as well keep the hot drop alive and well :)
no if you use a jump drive you should be hit by fatigue and range tweak WTS BPO : https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=307169 |
Captain Awkward
Republic University Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:22:00 -
[7198] - Quote
Well these changes are clearly adressed to break power projection.
However, I dont think that JF are part of that so it makes no sense to hit the logistical network and the ability to get stuff into the outer regions of space.
CCP should leave JF (maybe also roqual) as they are and only get the jump changes for the fight caps. |
Schmata Bastanold
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
2810
|
Posted - 2014.10.06 10:23:00 -
[7199] - Quote
I sense drop in drama/second, we need another cheerful dev blog from CCP Greyscale otherwise forums will get back to being boring as null is.
C'mon dude, you can do it! :) Invalid signature format |
RainReaper
Straw Hat Industries Galactic Skyfleet Empire
2
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Posted - 2014.10.06 10:39:00 -
[7200] - Quote
so. does this mean we get capitals in highsec or is this limited to low sec and null sec gates? |
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