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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
629
|
Posted - 2014.10.08 23:49:00 -
[7951] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:1) The vast majority of nullsec warfare happens at a subcap level. Seeing as your gallente militia alliance probably doesn't engage in sov warfare, nor hold sov, you don't understand that most fleets travel solely by gates already. Cap fleets are a whole other issue, which is what this solution is intended to nerf. The factor you're missing is the jump bridge system, but again, you don't have any jump bridges so I can't tell if you've actually used one.
2) If you think that attackers are jumping directly into combat from their home space rather than from their staging system, then you're in for a bad time. Furthermore, the "defending" staging system is generally not on the front lines but behind a buffer of systems.
3) With the proposed formula, jump bridges would be viable to defend one region, but not jump from Deklein -> Delve. I don't know what sov warfare you've been a part of, but titan bridges generally only happen from your staging system outwards- rarely ever do you not take gates (or get blown up) back home.
But please, continue to tell us about nullsec from your Gallente FW alliance. 1. Even the subcaps generally use Titans to move, and considering my final paragraph was all about the advantage that jump bridges currently give defenders. And if the folks attacking you are closer to their target than you are, you're doing something seriously wrong.
2. I was actually talking about distance from staging system to target, but by all means go ahead and continue to fail at reading comprehension.
3. Yes, I'm aware you wouldn't be able to move from Dek -> Delve, either with the original CCP proposal or with Mynna's. Of course, we were discussing the advantages that short range teleportation gives to a defender, especially under Mynna's proposal, but by all means strawman away. Also, if you're not taking advantage of your home field jump bridge network to cut off a subcap fleet, again, you're doing it wrong.
You're absolutely right that I've not done sov warfare under the current system. Instead, I did nullsec warfare from '03-'08, back when things were actually difficult. But hey - people can't possibly look at a system and draw intelligent conclusions if they're not CFC/N3/PL. Because reasons.
On a side note, if you don't think that GalMil's experience over the past year+ of attrition warfare doesn't have parallels to the post-jump nerf, you're really really short sighted. We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Veskrashen
Justified Chaos Spaceship Bebop
629
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Posted - 2014.10.08 23:54:00 -
[7952] - Quote
mynnna wrote:Veskrashen wrote:Regardless of the value of B you choose, you're still giving an arbitrary advantage to movement around or near a central point of your own choosing. Why the hell would you do that? Why would it be advantageous from a game design standpoint to make short range teleportation less costly for a defender than an attacker? What possible reason would you want that? . Attacker gates across eve and parks in his staging system. As they didn't jump on the way there, their origin is set to their staging system, and attacker & defender are now on very close to equal footing. It's not like origin is set once and never changes. What the attacker can't do anymore is cyno across eve in 20 minutes. Again, if you're letting the attacker be closer to his targets than your staging system, you're doing it wrong. Since I don't think anyone who is serious about bloc warfare is under any illusion that Gewns / CFC is stupid, I pretty much assume that as soon as a credible threat starts staging within jump range of Gewnville you'll shift your assets accordingly. Thus, my assertion that a competent defender will always have a shorter reship / jump distance to potential targets than their attackers.
And yes, I'm aware that their "origin" will be set to their staging system, since they haven't jumped yet. I'm also aware they couldn't jump across the galaxy in 20 minutes. None of which actually has any bearing on the issues I raised.
We Gallente have a saying: "CCP created the Gallente Militia to train the Fighters..." |
Thatt Guy
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
126
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Posted - 2014.10.08 23:59:00 -
[7953] - Quote
And CCP is gone! Once again CCP shows they don't care about your feedback AT ALL!
A couple of posts to feed the trolls, then they simply leave the thread to die.
cause CCP cares..... Haters gonna hate, Trolls gonna troll. |
Jobbered
Lost Legion Of Death Help Newbes Find a Way Alliance
3
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:07:00 -
[7954] - Quote
Don't worry. They are going to update everything on Monday. Which Monday is anyone's guess........... |
Sanai Nobuseri
Evil .inc Fatigue.
23
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:13:00 -
[7955] - Quote
I hate you ccp, rot in hell go die. Thank you for making it impossible to run logistics for my small corp. Anyone want a free jump freighter? |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5469
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:16:00 -
[7956] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:mynnna wrote:Besides, there is ample precedent for the idea that bridges shouldn't be nerfed as much. I'm really only following his inspiring precedent here. precedent wrote:Each teleportation mechanic will not necessarily have the same pull on the PPP as the distance they are teleporting. i.e. a titan bridge that is 10 light years will drain the PPP by 10, but traveling 10 light years via a POS jump bridge will pull 8 light years from the PPP. This is due to the titan bridge being a more powerful form of teleportation for obvious reasons. Interesting, you must be trying to get us to give their terrible blog pageviews eh. Page hits was never my #1 priority. Hence why I never fit in at TMC.
As long as CCP is smart enough to have each teleportation mechanic with its own individual 'slider' to adjust how each impacts Jump Fatigue, it will be easy to make adjustments later. Introducing it with extreme advantages for bloc defenders to hyper respond to anyone anywhere in their space is a mistake. The Paradox |
Marlona Sky
D00M. Northern Coalition.
5469
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:17:00 -
[7957] - Quote
Sanai Nobuseri wrote:I hate you ccp, rot in hell go die. Thank you for making it impossible to run logistics for my small corp. Anyone want a free jump freighter? Contract it to me ASAP before the ban hammer hits you. The Paradox |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1480
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:25:00 -
[7958] - Quote
Sanai Nobuseri wrote:I hate you ccp, rot in hell go die. Thank you for making it impossible to run logistics for my small corp. Anyone want a free jump freighter? ill give you 1 isk |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
74
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:39:00 -
[7959] - Quote
Sanai Nobuseri wrote:I hate you ccp, rot in hell go die. Thank you for making it impossible to run logistics for my small corp. Anyone want a free jump freighter?
Hey man, don't rage-quit *just* yet... but I'll hang onto it in case you change your mind. ;) |
Sibius Aidon
Imploding Turtles Rising in Outerspace Gravity Fatal Ascension
34
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:42:00 -
[7960] - Quote
Thatt Guy wrote:And CCP is gone! Once again CCP shows they don't care about your feedback AT ALL!
A couple of posts to feed the trolls, then they simply leave the thread to die.
cause CCP cares.....
There are 8000 posts on this. Do you expect them to gauge and respond to what everyone says? That would take too much time away from other tasks. Just because they don't respond doesn't mean they aren't listening. But it probably does. Who knows.
CCP Greyscale [b wrote:Is the ability to push your fatigue up to really high numbers a good idea?[/b] Probably not, no. We're looking at just capping fatigue at like 1 month or something.
That's still too long. Caps should depend on the type of ship, with transports and JF'S taking on the least. Maybe an hour tops. Regardless of that, a week at the most seems reasonable.
P.S. Anyone that is leaving and has a jf...I'll take it off your hands! |
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This Suxbad
State War Academy Caldari State
4
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:51:00 -
[7961] - Quote
This may be too deep in or maybe already mentioned. Since we are losing the triage carrier as a viable option with these changes. Could we get a useful logi for black ops? All of the current options have terrible range and a black ops tinker kinda sucks. Definition of blob is more friends than you! Do you play eve or play eve for others? |
Maccian
Soul Takers
18
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Posted - 2014.10.09 00:53:00 -
[7962] - Quote
Me and all the low sec people I hang with are excited about these changes!
As a member of a small low sec corp I think these changes will produce more content for us and force us to adapt and change certain ways we play the game, which I am personally looking forward to.
Regarding Black Ops; they should still be the No 1 ship for guerrilla warfare afterwards! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3817
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:03:00 -
[7963] - Quote
I was sorta scratching my head at what people meant by "it reduces fatigue!" while driving home, since X ^ Y is always >1 for any X > 1 and Y > 0. But I see what you mean, especially having fiddled with my spreadsheet.
I maintain that the general objective is worthwhile, just "find a less exploitable equation" is necessary. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
Ranamar
Valkyries of Night Of Sound Mind
74
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:18:00 -
[7964] - Quote
mynnna wrote:I was sorta scratching my head at what people meant by "it reduces fatigue!" while driving home, since X ^ Y is always >1 for any X > 1 and Y > 0. But I see what you mean, especially having fiddled with my spreadsheet. I maintain that the general objective is worthwhile, just "find a less exploitable equation" is necessary.
I still don't like the "home system" thing because it seems like it could easily be really fiddly. For example, if you like blopsing from a system that's one JB from your home station, do you have to take gates just so your "home system" is set to where you blops from instead of the JB you took along the way? You can't let people reset their home base too often or else they will almost certainly gain an advantage by resetting it every jump.
Maybe something like fatigue = (existing fatigue) * [ (distance)^(far-from-home-factor) ] could work, though. |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
6434
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:20:00 -
[7965] - Quote
mynnna wrote:I was sorta scratching my head at what people meant by "it reduces fatigue!" while driving home, since X ^ Y is always >1 for any X > 1 and Y > 0. But I see what you mean, especially having fiddled with my spreadsheet. I maintain that the general objective is worthwhile, just "find a less exploitable equation" is necessary. So basically you just CCPed that. ^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
Taking a wrecking ball to the futile hopes and broken dreams of skillless blobbers. |
Gevlin
killer taxi company
243
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:28:00 -
[7966] - Quote
I think the new system will make movement with in Eve more tactical.
Use a jump bridge to get in front of an enemy sure, but not beam clear across the galaxy to blob another blob.
Gate once again become encounter points. If planned correctly a group can by pass the camp or attack it with a 2 pronged a take, As they say the best way to take a bridge is from both sides. Carriers jump in supported by Coverops ships jump in behind the guarding force while the conventional fleet come trough the gate.
Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:29:00 -
[7967] - Quote
Tikitina wrote:Daniel Westelius wrote:Confirming the calculations on SiSi are messed up. Bridged a Helios with a Sin 1.136 LY and both the Helios pilot and the bridging Sin pilot got 22 minutes of jump fatigue and a 2 minute jump timer. Good job CCP. What did you expect deployable quality on the first try a month before it goes live? Bug report it and move on. Probably because QA will take half that time which means they only have two weeks to get it right? |
Jean Luc Lemmont
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
52
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:29:00 -
[7968] - Quote
Sanai Nobuseri wrote:I hate you ccp, rot in hell go die. Thank you for making it impossible to run logistics for my small corp. Anyone want a free jump freighter? Absolutely. Feel free to contract it to me. A bitter vet trying to start anew. |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:31:00 -
[7969] - Quote
kxdan wrote:Arkon Olacar wrote:Are you guys high?
No seriously, have any of the people who came up with these changes ever played Eve before?
You've just killed off nullsec logistics singlehandedly. You've just made the minimum requirement to be in null the ability to fly an interceptor. You've just killed black ops fleets. You've made it impossible to enter half the regions in the game without using a gate. You've just made it impossible to live in most of the NPC null regions. You've not restricted capital fights, you've eliminated them from the game entirely.
Are we being trolled? Are you trying to kill off your own game? ^ This
Agreed. As I previously calculated, the Jita -> Outer Passage route now takes 24x longer. That is a >95% nerf to its capabilities. If the changes as proposed go live, jump freighters will have 1/24 of their M3Lightyears / Unit Time.
That will kill galactic trade. Logistics pilots are right to be raging and unsubbing en masse. |
Mr Omniblivion
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
137
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Posted - 2014.10.09 01:32:00 -
[7970] - Quote
mynnna wrote:I was sorta scratching my head at what people meant by "it reduces fatigue!" while driving home, since X ^ Y is always >1 for any X > 1 and Y > 0. But I see what you mean, especially having fiddled with my spreadsheet. I maintain that the general objective is worthwhile, just "find a less exploitable equation" is necessary.
Too much time hanging out in Iceland |
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Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:38:00 -
[7971] - Quote
Speedkermit Damo wrote:Mister Miahgi wrote:Those super capital pilots wouldn't be so bored if there was new content to distract them. Such as the blue donut actually doing some fighting?
You mean like the most epic battles in gaming history that they fought this year? |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:40:00 -
[7972] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Christopher Mabata wrote:So i can now confirm these changes have been blown out of proportion Currently they are live on SISI ( ranges have not yet been nerfed, JF's are under TODO lockdown for the moment ) Working to drastically increase fatigue but on a 2 hour+ timer i had a drive cooldown of 12 minutes, which is about how long it would take me to move a cyno or get up and take a bio break or grab another beer.
I actually think now having seen and tested these myself that these will be more than live-able for null and low sec everywhere and dont require any additional tweaks i can think of. And given that my tests are with a carrier and not a JF the 90% fatigue reduction will make jump freighters easy street Good to hear. Thanks for testing null and low sec everywhere
Seriously. Do a Jita run from Period Basis or Cobalt Edge. |
Gevlin
killer taxi company
244
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:41:00 -
[7973] - Quote
This will turn into such a tactical game. The front line can actually be a front line. Choke points. No longer can you simply by base all the content and jump in to blob, fight then leave. There will be opportunities for supply lines to be breached.
Faster ship will have an advantage of getting from point A to B Mall ship blobs will be viable.
The days of simply rinse and repeat are changing. Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Nazri al Mahdi
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
107
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:41:00 -
[7974] - Quote
Darkopus wrote:Nazri al Mahdi wrote:Kiwinoob wrote:Seems to be a lot of negativity about making it harder to teleport everything people want from Jita out into null.
It's true I haven't spent a long time in 0.0 but I'm pretty sure while I was there I saw an asteroid. If only we could get CCP to provide some sort of device for extracting minerals from those asteroids (perhaps some kind of modified rocket launcher). If they also gave us a way to metamorphosize (yes - it is a real word) minerals into other things then someone could con an indy player out into null to build a giant bucket for all the tears.
And no. The time you spent reading this is mine now and you cant have it back.
It's not just harder, it's 24x harder in the worst case. That's what we're pissed about - the cackling-insane level of the nerf, not that there is a nerf. Eve is a harsh place. HTFU or GTFO. That's what you nullbears always saying to the rest of the community. Now take your medicine like men rather than crying g like pussies
I will say the same thing if they reduce your.... hisec mining yield by 95%.
Also anyone who doesn't understand that a 95% nerf of any kind to any playstyle in the game is BAD, well, that person is clearly beyond helping. |
Frango Mint
Rock Island Brothers of Tangra
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:45:00 -
[7975] - Quote
Nazri al Mahdi wrote:kxdan wrote:Arkon Olacar wrote:Are you guys high?
No seriously, have any of the people who came up with these changes ever played Eve before?
You've just killed off nullsec logistics singlehandedly. You've just made the minimum requirement to be in null the ability to fly an interceptor. You've just killed black ops fleets. You've made it impossible to enter half the regions in the game without using a gate. You've just made it impossible to live in most of the NPC null regions. You've not restricted capital fights, you've eliminated them from the game entirely.
Are we being trolled? Are you trying to kill off your own game? ^ This Agreed. As I previously calculated, the Jita -> Outer Passage route now takes 24x longer. That is a >95% nerf to its capabilities. If the changes as proposed go live, jump freighters will have 1/24 of their M3Lightyears / Unit Time. That will kill galactic trade. Logistics pilots are right to be raging and unsubbing en masse.
Living in Outer Passage, I can't help but agree. Having been a veteran of several years of Null Sec PVP and Sov Wars, I had decided to move out to OP and rent for a while to work on some industrial goals. Now, OP will be near impossible to live in, being so far from Low Sec / High Sec. As far as building a local market, I don't see that as being possible, since the sheer variety of materials is what makes Jita a viable market, that will be impossible to recreate 30 times over all over null sec. Will I be unsubbing my 7 accounts with over 885M SP? Well, I have retreated to high sec and will see what the game looks like in January or so. That is about $1K in real life savings for me in 2015. Maybe this patch is the motivation to drop this game like a bad habit. |
Rakshasa Taisab
Sane Industries Inc.
1606
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:54:00 -
[7976] - Quote
Frango Mint wrote:Living in Outer Passage, I can't help but agree. Having been a veteran of several years of Null Sec PVP and Sov Wars, I had decided to move out to OP and rent for a while to work on some industrial goals. Now, OP will be near impossible to live in, being so far from Low Sec / High Sec. As far as building a local market, I don't see that as being possible, since the sheer variety of materials is what makes Jita a viable market, that will be impossible to recreate 30 times over all over null sec. Will I be unsubbing my 7 accounts with over 885M SP? Well, I have retreated to high sec and will see what the game looks like in January or so. That is about $1K in real life savings for me in 2015. Maybe this patch is the motivation to drop this game like a bad habit. Then don't go live in Outer Passage.
When no one wants to live there, someone who wants to live there will come along and settle there. Nyan |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders DARKNESS.
2239
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:55:00 -
[7977] - Quote
Hey CCP, you should probably look into disallowing ascendancy implants and hyperspatial accelerators from effecting capital class ships for the detailed reasons provided here. |
MR DEMOS
Cameltoe Industries
19
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 01:56:00 -
[7978] - Quote
I see CCP is nerfing **** yet again WTF!!! Jump Cool Down better go rethink the whole damm thing ... I don't fricking think so... |
Gwailar
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
35
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Posted - 2014.10.09 02:12:00 -
[7979] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Hey CCP, you should probably look into disallowing ascendancy implants and hyperspatial accelerators from effecting capital class ships for the detailed reasons provided here.
Okay, reading that thread just makes me very much excited for these changes. It's all so interesting and dynamic! |
mynnna
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
3819
|
Posted - 2014.10.09 02:18:00 -
[7980] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:mynnna wrote:I was sorta scratching my head at what people meant by "it reduces fatigue!" while driving home, since X ^ Y is always >1 for any X > 1 and Y > 0. But I see what you mean, especially having fiddled with my spreadsheet. I maintain that the general objective is worthwhile, just "find a less exploitable equation" is necessary. So basically you just CCPed that.
Happens to the best of us. Member of the Goonswarm Economic Warfare Cabal |
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