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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 41 post(s) |
M1k3y Koontz
Thorn Project Surely You're Joking
603
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:35:00 -
[2041] - Quote
I like the changes, but the jump fatigue timer sounds ludicrously long lasted.
It seems some sort of hard cap should be implemented to how long it can take to decay, or some other way to prevent people from getting jump delay timers that last for days and can't be gotten rid of by any means other than not using that character for the next month. How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:35:00 -
[2042] - Quote
Tell me the solution to getting people OUT INTO null involves a certain yellow labeled npc corp.
Please please please please "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Lost touch
Mining Industry Exile Foundation The Camel Empire
17
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:36:00 -
[2043] - Quote
Aryth wrote:Lost touch wrote:How will this hurt smaller alliances again?!
3 small alliances attack 1 bigger alliance at 3 different points same timers.
Big alliance has to split into 3 groups to defend or 2 and lose the other 1 uncontested.
OR
Big alliance blobs one point and smaller one gets 2 points uncontested.
Now you are gonna think we will just use allys. Well thats is all well and good but they will have to leave their space undefended to help and use caps so subcaps, which takes time.
Logistics isent a problem if the allience is willing to put in the work. Stage from a lowsec and assulting Entry systems for logistical advantage.
Assaulting entity gets easy'r logistics, Defending entity has harder time with his logistics.
I suppose you missed the part where in multiple wars now we have fielded numbers, in multiple spots and fronts, that beat everyone else pretty much every major fight? Having said that I love all the change except the following three things. JF nerf. This is just a mule there is no sense in this. Limit the nerf to combat ships. Rorq nerf. Same as above Jump bridges should have a lesser penalty like JFs. Not 90% obviously but 50% maybe. Other than that. Go for it.
Your Coalition won not alliance.. You also won coz of Capital blobs not strategic play..
you field your capps at point 1 and 2 smaller allience's just goes to point 3 cat and mouse etc etc. Fla5hy Red the wrong way, only faster |
Ninteen Seventy-Nine
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
68
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:37:00 -
[2044] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:I like the changes, but the jump fatigue timer sounds ludicrously long lasted.
It seems some sort of hard cap should be implemented to how long it can take to decay, or some other way to prevent people from getting jump delay timers that last for days and can't be gotten rid of by any means other than not using that character for the next month.
You won't be jumping that far.
Gate home.
As for the time between, it means the hotdrop isn't extinct, just becomes something not so frivolous and easily backed out of. "The unending paradox is that we do learn through pain." |
Eternal Error
Immortalis Inc. Shadow Cartel
456
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:37:00 -
[2045] - Quote
I'm for a power projection nerf, but think this goes way too far. |
Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
31
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:38:00 -
[2046] - Quote
to stop the massive force projection from one side of new eden to the other, just put a cooldown timer on dreads, carriers, supers, titans, of like 10/15 mins between jumps? much simpler, and they can keep their ranges, etc, and as a bright side, half of eve isnt in uproar and unsubbing/rmt'ing accounts and starting to play star citizen. |
Mavric
Viscosity Fidelas Constans
3
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:38:00 -
[2047] - Quote
All I can say is stupid.. Just stupid. This plan makes jump bridges nearly useless. I haven't been training cap pilots for the last several years just so I can't use them. All this is doing is force us into inty fleets for everything. We are going to have to keep caches of pvp ships scattered about the map to be able to operate.
It's just a dumb move. |
Daenika
MMO-Mechanics.com
147
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:38:00 -
[2048] - Quote
I admit myself very concerned.
Take for example a simple 20 LY jump, in 4 increments of 5 LY. First jump is a 6 minute timer, 6 fatigue. Timer causes fatigue to decay to 5.4, next jump is a 6 minute timer, 32.4 fatigue. Timer causes fatigue to decay to 31.8, next jump is 31.8 minutes, 190.8 fatigue. Timer causes fatigue to decay to 187.6. Last jump leaves you with a 3 hour timer, and 1125.6 fatigue. That's 7.8 days for that timer to decay.
It took you 45 minutes to travel that distance, and you can't turn around and go back for over a week.
Even a BLOPs bridge is problematic. Take a 7.5 LY bridge for a gank (BLOPs retain their ~7.8 LY range, according to the blog). You bridge in, 8.5 minute timer and 8.5 fatigue. You have to stay there for at least 8.5 minutes, but say you stay for 15 total. That leaves 7 fatigue remaining. Jump back, now you're at 59.5 fatigue. That means you're effectively done bridging for ten hours. One BLOPs bridge round trip per night, folks, that's it.
Seriously, this kills jump drive travel. In many ways, I think you're better off jumping, waiting the hour for your fatigue to decay, then jumping again, as many times as it takes to move to where you're going.
I mean, only large alliances are going to have the manpower to gate-jump capitals. For everyone else, they might as well just self-destruct the capital (and their pod), fly to their destination, and buy a new capital, because it amounts to the same.
Seriously, the exponential growth curve demolishes jump drive travel almost completely. You're functionally making capitals only a local-use tool, and restricting moving capitals any sort of distance to purely the largest alliances. |
Zhul Chembull
Phantom Power Incorporated Rebel Alliance of New Eden
15
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:39:00 -
[2049] - Quote
Lost touch wrote:Zhul Chembull wrote:Lost touch wrote:Smaller entities could just produce in NPC null.. meaning they would have to try and make a living there.
Just letting people who wasent there from the beginning capitals haven't always been in EvE. EvE was great then it is now and it will still be after this change. You are not FORCED to use capitals its just convenient for you.
WH's will be more travel'd Space will have to be utilised Cant just RR any system that needs defending in 4 regions then go blob provie or somewhere with ****, so you have to plan what NEEDS to be done.
If you just HAVE to post saying i quit then un-sub now and good glad your going bye o7
Either adapt or die simple as that. Small gang pilots get nerfed all the time and we don't whine we adapt, become stronger.
More tears in thread tho plz :)
CCP Deserve a medal for this kudos
At least you have a name that aptly describes you. Your right we aren't forced to use capitals, we just have to move our supplies we produce to Jita. Space will not be utilized any, you my friend have no idea what is going to happen. It will not effect the big alliances at all, just the smaller ones. WH cant be relied on moving supplies, give me a break. Your casual gamer will go away, which is about damn time I find a good reason. And yeah, after 11 years, I do believe my opinion holds a small amount of weight as I have watched the inception, explosion and straight up decline of the game. Subs will be less for sure after this stupid idea is moved into action. That's right its stupid, my 13 year old could come up with a better idea than this. These ideas have purposed over and over by people that actually play the game. Really?! coz back in the day smaller alliances use to just convoy things and get people to scout/web indis Subs wont decline and if they do we will get more players who are happy to use gates. WH's are pritty reliable in a small region you will easly be able to get to HS, And the point isent to make things to sell in HS its to make things to USE in Null.
We all use the items we produce in null and we sell them at jita, giving us the best price possible. Ever played this game much ? |
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
18
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:39:00 -
[2050] - Quote
Question is what are the jump ranges for Rorquals and Jump Freighters going to be?
Blog says "Almost all jump-capable ships will have their range reduced to 5 LY after skills" and "Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This means that, for all the math weGÇÖre doing on this feature, whenever we use the range jumped as a variable we first multiply it by 0.1"
Thing is when I first use the range jumped as a variable I check to see if I can make the jump. If the jump is 10 LY then effective jump range is 0.1 x 10LY = 1LY so that means if the JF has a jump range of 1LY it can make the 10LY jump right? It does say "all the math" which includes checking to see if the jump is in range? |
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Doc Fury
Furious Enterprises
6594
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:39:00 -
[2051] - Quote
It's... it's.. glorious...
Goons need to step-up their propaganda game, half of you are ragequitting the other half are smugsperging.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'Hodor'. |
Daegara Odenson
Dissident Aggressors Mordus Angels
1
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:40:00 -
[2052] - Quote
This may have already been mentioned, apologies if so but RE: logistics and the use of JFs for supplying 0.0:
Many people undock from 4-4 in JFs and immediately jump to a cyno to avoid the veritable shitstorm that is the 4-4 undock and the surrounding systems. Under the range limit of 5 light years however that leaves only 2 valid low sec systems that may be jumped to:
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Nomad,0/Jita
Two systems, a small collection of stations, of which one 1 is non-kickout. I'm all in favour of bottlenecks for content but this is the most populous trade hub in new eden would it not be possible to at least get 1 other option? Making max jump range 6 light years would for example offer 22 possible cyno-out points otherwise I can envision JF losses quickly outstripping production and the logistics backbone of new eden tumbling like a house of cards.
http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Nomad,1/Jita
As it stands now, unless you happen to want to head in that direction already cynoing out of 4-4 as is not a practical option at all. |
Zhul Chembull
Phantom Power Incorporated Rebel Alliance of New Eden
15
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:40:00 -
[2053] - Quote
Daenika wrote:I admit myself very concerned.
Take for example a simple 20 LY jump, in 4 increments of 5 LY. First jump is a 6 minute timer, 6 fatigue. Timer causes fatigue to decay to 5.4, next jump is a 6 minute timer, 32.4 fatigue. Timer causes fatigue to decay to 31.8, next jump is 31.8 minutes, 190.8 fatigue. Timer causes fatigue to decay to 187.6. Last jump leaves you with a 3 hour timer, and 1125.6 fatigue. That's 7.8 days for that timer to decay.
It took you 45 minutes to travel that distance, and you can't turn around and go back for over a week.
Even a BLOPs bridge is problematic. Take a 7.5 LY bridge for a gank (BLOPs retain their ~7.8 LY range, according to the blog). You bridge in, 8.5 minute timer and 8.5 fatigue. You have to stay there for at least 8.5 minutes, but say you stay for 15 total. That leaves 7 fatigue remaining. Jump back, now you're at 59.5 fatigue. That means you're effectively done bridging for ten hours. One BLOPs bridge round trip per night, folks, that's it.
Seriously, this kills jump drive travel. In many ways, I think you're better off jumping, waiting the hour for your fatigue to decay, then jumping again, as many times as it takes to move to where you're going.
I mean, only large alliances are going to have the manpower to gate-jump capitals. For everyone else, they might as well just self-destruct the capital (and their pod), fly to their destination, and buy a new capital, because it amounts to the same.
Seriously, the exponential growth curve demolishes jump drive travel almost completely. You're functionally making capitals only a local-use tool, and restricting moving capitals any sort of distance to purely the largest alliances. Good post. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Mordus Angels
2147
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:40:00 -
[2054] - Quote
Aryndel Vyst wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Aryndel Vyst wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:I'm totally stoked for these changes.
The "I quit" posts in this thread are glorious. A real change of pace from the mission text you're used to seeing from SoE missions I suppose. Never ran a level 4 in my life. Why are you always so mad, bro? Yea, as you can tell by that text I'm just so seething about random Joe Q MoA Pubbie. Given how you seem prone to insults, that's exactly what it looks like, yes.
Note how all of my posts at least try to maintain an air of civility. |
Antihrist Pripravnik
T-AFK and counting
742
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:40:00 -
[2055] - Quote
Holy mother of everything that is sacred ... Roaming carrier / dreadnought fleets incoming o.0 |
Ryk Kion
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
3
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:41:00 -
[2056] - Quote
To all those pilots thinking about "voting with their feet":
Go ahead and contract all of your stuff to Ryk Kion. I will be opening a 'bank' for any and all of your crap.
It may or may not be there when you inevitably realize nobody cares you are leaving and decide to return. Likely it will die in one glorious manner or another. Actually I probably wonGÇÖt even return it if itGÇÖs still around.
Either way contract it to me! |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6295
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:41:00 -
[2057] - Quote
Demonfist wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:Robert Fortis wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:A lot of people really need to ask, who will these changes hurt the most? I'll give you a hint: It's not groups like CFC, PL or N3, who have the manpower & resources to work our way completely around this. So why are you the ones crying about it incessantly? I know it's more convenient for you to believe that I don't care about other people, but I do. I'm tired of having to get smaller groups that I'm on friendly terms with a place in the CFC just so they can do things in nullsec. Goonies Propaganda Machine ... OVERHEAT ALL TEH MODULES!
If you can't spot actual propaganda, then there's not much hope that you will ever produce a reasonable argument. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Wizzard117
Viziam Amarr Empire
15
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:41:00 -
[2058] - Quote
ok, my 0.02 isk on that
a) Player-built stargates (PBS) should appear first b) Capital ships should use only PBS but not common stargates for traveling between systems c) Jump fatigue and jump cooldowns needs to go d) And be replaced by - some "Jump capacitor" that looks and acts like a capacitor only for jumps - non-linear regeneration: regeneration speed depends on actual capacity. More actual capacity - more regen - the more resource "jump capacitor" have the longer jump range is - full range jump require some % of "jump capacitor" capacity and that's it for jumps
This will 1. Prevent people from jumping too frequently working as sort of "soft cooldown" 2. Allow planning beforehand as fleet formation jump time will be more manageable like a) Alice did some anomalies today and has some jump fatigue b) Bob is fresh c) All fleet have to wait for Alice in order to jump in This kills all the planning beforehand as jump cooldown timers of different fleet people can be different so the fleet will have to wait for the longest jump cooldown before planning 2-jump ops That's not the case in the proposed solution
I mean cmon guys, jump fatigue, jump cooldowns timers, jump fatigue decay multipliers seriously? All these things looks completely non-realistic and artificial. |
Rob Cobb
Probe Patrol Ixtab.
31
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:41:00 -
[2059] - Quote
oh and i want all my sp back for caps, still waiting on them for the shield comps |
Flashrain
Vanguard Frontiers Intrepid Crossing
21
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:41:00 -
[2060] - Quote
Do Reduce jump fuel consumption to 30% per jump.
Else: 1. Jump fuel cost will skyrocket over night - imagine oil prices triple in a day.
2. Moving will take FAR longer - since you also need to move/consume fuel 300% more. The effect is felt twice in fuel COST and fuel VOLUME. This will cause LESS ship movement, NOT more.
3. Capitals will be sold off en mass, or converted to minerals and sold, crashing both capital market and mineral market - potentially irreversibly destablizing the whole economy.
4. Capital pilots will be devaluated en masse, potentially crashing the character prices across the board.
5. Skill points - refund those jump skill points, as well as capital related skill points. |
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
5507
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:43:00 -
[2061] - Quote
I read the devblog and knew tears were coming. Like a waterfall down a mountain tears would come.
But seriously. I have no dog in this fight, and these changes seem arbitrary even to me. Like someone saying "hey, you run faster than everybody else, so now we are going to put these weights on your legs".
Look. Let's just go full steam ahead into the breech. Let's just say f**k it.
Let's just let all ships dial in system to system warps like every sci fi genre we have seen so far.
(and kill all SOV mechanics and let the players work it out).
Bring back DEEEEP Space! |
Mark Hakoke
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
2
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:43:00 -
[2062] - Quote
this isnt a nerf or a re balancing its a game changer and not in a good way very few people will like this change and everyone else will hate it the fatigue is a reasonable idea but changing the distances is absurd |
Mallak Azaria
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
6296
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:43:00 -
[2063] - Quote
epicurus ataraxia wrote:So now we know why Nullsec got such a boost to industry. It seems that instead of the fast way to Jita You will Have to actually make all that you use, Locally.
We had been asking for this for years anyway. This post was lovingly crafted by a member of the Goonwaffe Posting Cabal, proud member of the popular gay hookup site somethingawful.com, Spelling Bee, Grammar Gestapo & #1 Official Gevlon Goblin Fanclub member.
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Maach Ine
Incompertus INC Fatal Ascension
0
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:44:00 -
[2064] - Quote
So, I ran some numbers for myself, even though I believe that someone else in the thread has already done some math on jumping.
From what I see, if a capital pilot decides to, for some insane reason, jump across the galaxy without waiting at all for his jump fatigue to expire, by the 12th jump said pilot will have a thousand year cooldown timer, and therefore have to wait TEN thousand years for his fatigue to expire.
This seems somewhat excessive.
I do like the idea where, if a capital (fleet) DOES wait for their jump fatigue to expire, they will be jumping approximately once an hour.
I would suggest modifying the calculation on the jump fatigue value, such that the more fatigue you have, the less fatigue you gain, so that your jump fatigue would top out at some arbitrary value. |
Rowells
Unknown Soldiers Fidelas Constans
1402
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:44:00 -
[2065] - Quote
Davionia Vanshel wrote:Question is what are the jump ranges for Rorquals and Jump Freighters going to be?
Blog says "Almost all jump-capable ships will have their range reduced to 5 LY after skills" and "Jump Freighters and Rorquals will gain a role bonus: 90% reduction to effective range jumped for the purposes of all these calculations, but will otherwise get all the described changes. This means that, for all the math weGÇÖre doing on this feature, whenever we use the range jumped as a variable we first multiply it by 0.1"
Thing is when I first use the range jumped as a variable I check to see if I can make the jump. If the jump is 10 LY then effective jump range is 0.1 x 10LY = 1LY so that means if the JF has a jump range of 1LY it can make the 10LY jump right? It does say "all the math" which includes checking to see if the jump is in range? your doing it wrong.
Jump range = 5LY
90% reduction to jump range when calculated for fatigue |
Innominate
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
588
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:45:00 -
[2066] - Quote
Mallak Azaria wrote: We had been asking for this for years anyway.
And we're still waiting. |
Arsine Mayhem
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
232
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:45:00 -
[2067] - Quote
Robert Fortis wrote:Mallak Azaria wrote:A lot of people really need to ask, who will these changes hurt the most? I'll give you a hint: It's not groups like CFC, PL or N3, who have the manpower & resources to work our way completely around this. So why are you the ones crying about it incessantly?
That's they way goon does propaganda. They think they are trying to convince us, but really they are scared. |
Melvin Coulter
Rubella Solaris Test Alliance Please Ignore
248
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:45:00 -
[2068] - Quote
Just as i was starting my training for caps. Yep, no. Move along! |
Davionia Vanshel
Open University of Celestial Hardship Art of War Alliance
18
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Posted - 2014.10.02 00:45:00 -
[2069] - Quote
Daegara Odenson wrote:This may have already been mentioned, apologies if so but RE: logistics and the use of JFs for supplying 0.0: Many people undock from 4-4 in JFs and immediately jump to a cyno to avoid the veritable shitstorm that is the 4-4 undock and the surrounding systems. Under the range limit of 5 light years however that leaves only 2 valid low sec systems that may be jumped to: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Nomad,0/JitaTwo systems, a small collection of stations, of which one 1 is non-kickout. I'm all in favour of bottlenecks for content but this is the most populous trade hub in new eden would it not be possible to at least get 1 other option? Making max jump range 6 light years would for example offer 22 possible cyno-out points otherwise I can envision JF losses quickly outstripping production and the logistics backbone of new eden tumbling like a house of cards. http://evemaps.dotlan.net/range/Nomad,1/JitaAs it stands now, unless you happen to want to head in that direction already cynoing out of 4-4 as is not a practical option at all.
Burt it is ambiguous as to whether the 5LY range applies to Jump Freighters and Rorquals. As there is the 0.1 multiplier for effective jump range to be considered for all jump calculations under the new mechanic. If that includes the calculation of whether a jump is in range then if the nominal range of a JF was reduced to 5LY then it's effective and actual range would be 50LY.
Bottom line is we don't know what the new jump ranges for Rorquals and Jump Freighters will be. |
SSG Keeper
Exanimo Inc Black Pearl Alliance
1
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 00:45:00 -
[2070] - Quote
CNN just reported:
CCP kills internet in upcoming patch. |
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