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Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
303
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 06:50:00 -
[1] - Quote
While I think it's all well and good that we got mining frigates introduced awhile ago, what would it look like if they did the flipside of that and made an honest to god capital mining boat? I'm not talking about a booster or processing ship like we have with the orca or rorq; I'm talking a big, honking monstrosity of a vessel about the size of a dread with XL mining lasers that focuses on chewing through rocks like some of us go through reese's pieces or popcorn. It'd be kind of big, is what I'm trying to say.
Basically, you'd make it a compliment to the Rorq in that while it can rip through a bunch of rocks in a very short amount of time, it doesn't have a lot of storage space; it'd be comparable to current barges in that respect, and would be rather cumbersome to field. I'm assuming you'd have the same limitations apply to it as a rorqual with not being able to field it in highsec, but It's open to debate, especially with how capitals are going to be up in the air with that kind of thing in the future anyway. Obviously it would have to be jump drive capable, and could be an interesting way to blitz belts in quiet systems without attracting too much attention. It would also make a hilariously huge target for gankers; it would be taking hulkageddon to the next level, to say the least.
Thoughts? |
Tabyll Altol
Breaking.Bad Circle-Of-Two
20
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Posted - 2014.10.02 09:00:00 -
[2] - Quote
often proposed.
If you take it serious please post some stats you have in mind.
Like yield, ehp, costs to bild, fuel consume and downtimes for the good yield.
mfg |
Richard Feynmann
SKULL AND B0NES Greater Western Co-Prosperity Sphere
2
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Posted - 2014.10.02 09:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Interesting!
Interesting would be a specialized mining capital which not touched the role of the rorqual. On the other hand player should have a good reason to field it in a asteroid belt for example, and this ships concept - under no circumstances make the exhumer or mining barges obsolete.
Maybee CCP first have to renew the concept of asteroid belts or mining sites. In my view there should be more versatility within mining.
for example:
This ship does not mining the ore in the known way - it processes other materials out of the known ore. ...also known as "moon materials"
Veldspar ---> V, SiO-¦ Hedbergite ---> Hg, Cr, KCl ......
You have the choice to use the ore in the known way or in the new way. Its also possible to have specialized - drones "like fighter counterparts" that you can directly choice which raw material you want to process. And every ore have its specified quantity of the raw materials (moon materials) Die Bundeswehr ist dazu da, um den Feind an der Grenze solange aufzuhalten, bis Millit+ñr kommt. |
Sara Tosa
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
107
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Posted - 2014.10.02 14:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
dont forget tat the more minerals hit the market, the less they are worth. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1913
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 14:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
the moment you have a yield higher than the hulk, you make the hulk irrelevant. Therefore it must not yield more than a hulk.
the moment it tanks more than a skiff, you make the skiff irrelevant. Therefore it must not tank more than a skiff.
the moment it passive mines better than a mack, you make the mack irrelevant. Therefore it must not passively mine better than a Mack.
Now,
What do you want it to do?
(mining moon minerals is interesting, but do CCP even want moon goo in hi-sec anymore) EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Steppa Musana
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
185
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Posted - 2014.10.02 15:02:00 -
[6] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:the moment you have a yield higher than the hulk, you make the hulk irrelevant. Therefore it must not yield more than a hulk.
the moment it tanks more than a skiff, you make the skiff irrelevant. Therefore it must not tank more than a skiff.
the moment it passive mines better than a mack, you make the mack irrelevant. Therefore it must not passively mine better than a Mack.
Don't know about that.
Does the Hulk make the Coveter irrelevant? Skiff -- Procurer? Mackinaw -- Retriever?
A mining capital ship would take a very long time to train into.
It would also be rather expensive. That is mostly why people mine in T1 ships; so when they lose 8 of them at once, it doesn't cost an arm and a leg.
Risk/Reward would dictate the capital mining ship would have to best in at least 1 category. |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1913
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 15:34:00 -
[7] - Quote
a long time to train into with what skills? unless there is gradual progression, you want to put skills in that serve little purpose other than to make this ship take a long time to train into.
The T2 barges do make their T1 counterparts irrelevant, with the exception of the covetor for expendability. Will this idea make the hulk expendable and usable? doubt it. Such players will default to the covetor still.
so...
I have and idea. A capital barge with the highest yield in the game. So why fly a Hulk?
Cause its really expensive and difficult to train into. So i should just fly a Covetor since ill be a gank magnet
No, the capital barge will have more tank and ore hold! So why fly a Hulk? EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Daoden
The Scope Gallente Federation
89
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 15:53:00 -
[8] - Quote
If we make it so it cannot harvest ice belts that would still make the Hulk/Mack/skiff relevant. Id rather see a cruiser sized ship with gas harvesting bonuses before a capital mining barge tbh, getting tired of using the mining frigates. |
Orion X04
Corus Industries Ltd Corus Conglomerate
28
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Posted - 2014.10.02 16:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:the moment you have a yield higher than the hulk, you make the hulk irrelevant. Therefore it must not yield more than a hulk.
the moment it tanks more than a skiff, you make the skiff irrelevant. Therefore it must not tank more than a skiff.
the moment it passive mines better than a mack, you make the mack irrelevant. Therefore it must not passively mine better than a Mack.
Now,
What do you want it to do?
(mining moon minerals is interesting, but do CCP even want moon goo in hi-sec anymore)
This concept would not make barges obsolete, much in the same way carriers don't make the use of other combat ships obsolete for ratting.
Risk vs reward. Do you use your slow capital mining ship with huge yield and risk getting caught during your hilariously long align time? Or do you stick to your barges which yield less but every dock = ore safely stored away.
It would add another tool to the box, another option for players and could potentially be used as a mobile mining base for those pioneers who want to reach further.
+1
Corus Conglomerate
"Building A Better Tomorrow, Today" |
Amyclas Amatin
Eternity INC. Goonswarm Federation
366
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 17:01:00 -
[10] - Quote
Could be good for null-sec industry... if you also gave us roids that didn't deplete so fast. For more information on the New Order of High-Sec, please visit: http://www.minerbumping.com/ High-Sec has a future, But do You? Buy a Mining Permit to Secure yours today. |
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Bellanea Rajanir
Poseidaon
30
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Posted - 2014.10.02 17:16:00 -
[11] - Quote
Or maybe a mooncracker that can mine moons in high sec and it would be wessel the size of freighter. I don't know. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
308
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 18:13:00 -
[12] - Quote
Tabyll Altol wrote:often proposed.
If you take it serious please post some stats you have in mind.
Like yield, ehp, costs to bild, fuel consume and downtimes for the good yield.
mfg I don't do mining very often myself, so I'm basically just suggesting an initial concept here and asking for feedback on specific stats. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
308
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 18:16:00 -
[13] - Quote
Daichi Yamato wrote:the moment you have a yield higher than the hulk, you make the hulk irrelevant. Therefore it must not yield more than a hulk.
the moment it tanks more than a skiff, you make the skiff irrelevant. Therefore it must not tank more than a skiff.
the moment it passive mines better than a mack, you make the mack irrelevant. Therefore it must not passively mine better than a Mack.
Now,
What do you want it to do?
(mining moon minerals is interesting, but do CCP even want moon goo in hi-sec anymore) Since battleships have not made cruisers irrelevant, this point is really kind of bogus I'm sorry to say. Mobility and deployment flexibility are excellent advantages, and I never once said that this huge thing had the ability to reach every rock in the belt. Or ice mine, for that matter. |
Catherine Laartii
Providence Guard Templis CALSF
308
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 18:18:00 -
[14] - Quote
Bellanea Rajanir wrote:Or maybe a mooncracker that can mine moons in high sec and it would be wessel the size of freighter. I don't know. There's an idea I could get behind; get rid of starbase moon mining and turn it into a ship. :0 |
Blade Darth
Room for Improvement Limited Expectations
0
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 18:31:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sounds nice, a capital in belt to shoot at xP |
Daichi Yamato
Xero Security and Technologies
1913
|
Posted - 2014.10.02 22:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Orion X04 wrote:
This concept would not make barges obsolete, much in the same way carriers don't make the use of other combat ships obsolete for ratting.
Risk vs reward. Do you use your slow capital mining ship with huge yield and risk getting caught during your hilariously long align time? Or do you stick to your barges which yield less but every dock = ore safely stored away.
It would add another tool to the box, another option for players and could potentially be used as a mobile mining base for those pioneers who want to reach further.
+1
carriers do make sub caps obsolete in any fight they are involved in.
if this was only allowed in low sec it would suffer the same fate as the rorqual, and its align time is not an issue in hi-sec.
Catherine Laartii wrote: Since battleships have not made cruisers irrelevant, this point is really kind of bogus I'm sorry to say. Mobility and deployment flexibility are excellent advantages, and I never once said that this huge thing had the ability to reach every rock in the belt. Or ice mine, for that matter.
Mobility and flexibility are advantages where mobility and flexibility are warranted...i.e a fight! Comparing different sized miners to different sized combat ships is what is bogus.
mobility is hardly a requirement of a mining vessel in hi-sec, its not like the rocks are going to out run are get under the guns of a miner are they?
and this would never be used in low just like the rorqual.
so what do you want it to do? because your OP just describes it vaporising belts... EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY?No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided""So it will be up to a pilot to remain vigilant wherever they may be flying and be ready for anything at any time" |
Regnag Leppod
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
55
|
Posted - 2014.10.03 00:31:00 -
[17] - Quote
Catherine Laartii wrote:While I think it's all well and good that we got mining frigates introduced awhile ago, what would it look like if they did the flipside of that and made an honest to god capital mining boat? I'm not talking about a booster or processing ship like we have with the orca or rorq; I'm talking a big, honking monstrosity of a vessel about the size of a dread with XL mining lasers that focuses on chewing through rocks like some of us go through reese's pieces or popcorn. It'd be kind of big, is what I'm trying to say.
Basically, you'd make it a compliment to the Rorq in that while it can rip through a bunch of rocks in a very short amount of time, it doesn't have a lot of storage space; it'd be comparable to current barges in that respect, and would be rather cumbersome to field. I'm assuming you'd have the same limitations apply to it as a rorqual with not being able to field it in highsec, but It's open to debate, especially with how capitals are going to be up in the air with that kind of thing in the future anyway. Obviously it would have to be jump drive capable, and could be an interesting way to blitz belts in quiet systems without attracting too much attention. It would also make a hilariously huge target for gankers; it would be taking hulkageddon to the next level, to say the least.
Thoughts?
My guess is that a ship like this would sit unused because it would require too much "work" if you had XL Strips on it. I mean, can you imagine the uproar if you told miners they'd have to actually tend to their activities instead of watching a movie?
If you want to appeal to the current mining crowd, make your dread sized mining ship, but give it multiple high's for strip II's.
something like this:
High-slots: 6
Mids: 3
lows: 6
Design it to be an armor based ship (current barges and exhumers are far better fit for shields, so lets do this different since its supposed to be a beast).
Balance the CPU/PG so that the pilot has to balance yield and tank. For every MLU you put on it, you're going to take a hit on defense being that it is an armor focused ship.
1000m3 cargo is plenty for 2 sets of multiple crystal types
50m3 drone bay with 25mb bandwidth (if you want to use this in low/null, sacrifice yield and put some guns in the high slots, or bring friends)
200,000m3 ore hold (enough for ah hours work unboosted with base stats, if you want more or fit MLU's, bring a hauler)
Though I'm tempted to say only 100,000m3 on the ore hold, just to force the team-work issue.
Mass and agility should be equivalent to a Rorqual, same with max speed.
Again, only dedicated miners would use this, because it would go through asteroids so fast you'd not have time to sip coffee and watch a movie under the constant droning of aura saying "The asteroid is depleted".
Being that I don't build ships, I'm pretty sure even all that is over the top, but no matter what you build, I think it should at the very least be an armor focused ship, forcing the pilots to sacrifice a lot of defense for yield.
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